The only fruit I refuse to eat.

[jayem]

I haven't read all 100+ posts in this thread, This may have already been mentioned. Apples aren't native to the Middle East. In the strict botanical sense, if Eden is postulated to be in the region of Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq), or maybe in what's now Syria, there'd be figs, dates, grapes, olives, pomegranates, and muskmelons. But apples wouldn't be found. It seems most likely to me that the apple idea is a much later Europeanization of the Genesis legend. Just like Jesus was often depicted as a light-skinned, blondish haired, blue-eyed, western European-looking man. Not a darker, swarthy person who would more likely have been a Hebrew tribesman.

 

[Robban]

Fair enough. The fig is a very troublesome issue anyway, what with cursing of a fig tree via an two of the apostles and it's probably an issue left for another thread. But figs in my opinion are probably not to be scratched off too easily. I'm going to put figs in the maybe pile/realm.




I disagree. It's the awareness of a channel to sin. Be that fruit or pornography or drugs or certain types of music, certain types of smells/shapes etc.


A blind man can plan a bank robbery or order the murder of people.


Aware of WHAT???


But they were made in God's image? Is God's eyes closed to the cursed fruit?
If so, then who designed this garden of trickery and cruel delight?
Was Eden Satan's garden, and the apple was Satan's fruit?
Nobody knows.



Yeah well I reckon nothing.


He did indeed my friend.


We'll see. I guess.

There was once an orchad owner, he had been losing a lot of fruit,
he suspected it was being stolen.

So he started looking for suspects, he to came two men,
one was blind and the other lame.

He asked the lame first if he had been stealing fruit,

No, said the lame, how could I, I cannot even walk.

He asked the blind if he had been stealing fruit,
No, said the blind, I cannot see even.

The orchard owner said,
if you who are lame were to sit on your blind fellow's shoulders
he could carry you around,
you could then guide him.

An illustration of the judgement, the body will be judged together with the soul.

Lest the soul should blame the body,
and the body blame the soul.

An aswer to your blindness reckoning.

 

[Robban]

Fair enough. The fig is a very troublesome issue anyway, what with cursing of a fig tree via an two of the apostles and it's probably an issue left for another thread. But figs in my opinion are probably not to be scratched off too easily. I'm going to put figs in the maybe pile/realm.




I disagree. It's the awareness of a channel to sin. Be that fruit or pornography or drugs or certain types of music, certain types of smells/shapes etc.


A blind man can plan a bank robbery or order the murder of people.


Aware of WHAT???


But they were made in God's image? Is God's eyes closed to the cursed fruit?
If so, then who designed this garden of trickery and cruel delight?
Was Eden Satan's garden, and the apple was Satan's fruit?
Nobody knows.



Yeah well I reckon nothing.


He did indeed my friend.


We'll see. I guess.

Genesis 3:6

Speaks of the wonan seeing that the tree was good and wanting to eat of it's fruit.

This before her eyes were opened.

Does this not tell us something?

 

[Monowhite]

I should add as an addendum that someone has occasionally tempted me to partake of the apple (so to speak), but I'm proud to say I have never done so and hopefully never will. Apple crumble (much to my chagrin) does smell delicious. Especially with custard, which I do eat.
But it's all a temptation nonetheless. And all the same. From the radio. Temptation. From the Television. Temptation. Gambling machines. Pleasant smells. Sports. Teams. Colours. etc... You get the point. I hope.
No, I'm not saying fasting is the answer either or any kind of abstinence from bathing/showering or causing a fuss.
But I think a wise man chooses the colour of his plate. And I think (going back to the wretched fruit which caused the whole damned mess), until we can unmask the metaphor, or do a little digging into biblical botanical structure (PH levels, ecosystems), we all may very well partaking of the damned fruit without our personal knowledge. Be it fig or apple.
I think it's worth keeping in mind, that temptation does also take many forms.
Be that a snake, or a treacherous wife called Eve or a scent drifting from Nana's pantry. Or even the discovery that the fruit might not even be a damned apple. Every day is a day to think, I don't need much music in my life. I only need to eat maybe one tin of peaches in syrup a week. Do I really need to leave the house, to minimise temptation. But still have handy access to the telephone and internet.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
To my surprise, you've all given me self doubt. I came here for apple-based confirmations and reassurances, maybe a knowing nod or thumbs up, but instead I've been met with questions and doubt.

I have plenty to think about tonight and I bid you all caution.

 

[Ophiolite]

It's too much oft repeated to be a coincidence, even Newton complained of a falling of an apple when he discovered 'gravity'.

No, he didn't. It is a popular story, the urban myth of its day, but not true. Like much of your reasoning, you seem to have built on shifting sands. Inventive, but wholly unconvincing.

I should add as an addendum that someone has occasionally tempted me to partake of the apple (so to speak), but I'm proud to say I have never done so and hopefully never will. Apple crumble (much to my chagrin) does smell delicious.

Don't be alarmed, but if you could smell the apple crumble then your body was partaking of minute portions of apple, dispersed in the air and captured by the receptors in your nose. That would be a breach of your ideal of foregoing apples entirely.

 

[Noxot]

Hey, so I realize that you were not responding to my initial statement, that apples are awesome - I like them. I read your posts just now and I'm hoping that you could just state in a sentence or two what your point is. It seemed like a lot of verbiage. Thanks in advance for the clarification

my main point is that I h8 apples if apples are the be all end all.

 

[Monowhite]

No, he didn't. It is a popular story, the urban myth of its day, but not true. Like much of your reasoning, you seem to have built on shifting sands. Inventive, but wholly unconvincing.

You utter defiance and faux-knowledge with your first words and use the skinny scapegoat of 'urban legends' as a way out. I'm not the inventive one here. As for convincing. I don't answer to you. But judge away. But despite what you say, Yes, Newton's inspiration of gravity DID come from a falling apple.

I'm trying to have a discussion. Politely, if this conversation offends you in any way then just don't join in, it's as simple as that. I'm not here to upset anyone, more so to discuss the proverbial and potential nature of Satanic fruit .The temptation. The initial blight that tore a whole hole through Eden and caused the exile of the humans from the great gardens into incest and sin. My whole journey here is to figure out how to avoid such a mistake in the future and to try to narrow it down to specifics.

Hence my complete aversion to it all. Crumbled fruit or pie.

14 Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign Lord! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.”
Ezekiel

^ Replace the words meat with apple and you'll probably have a little better understanding of my warnings.

Don't be alarmed, but if you could smell the apple crumble then your body was partaking of minute portions of apple, dispersed in the air and captured by the receptors in your nose. That would be a breach of your ideal of foregoing apples entirely.

I'm sorry but it doesn't quite work like that. Scent is merely flavoured wind, merely a hint of what could be. A ghost of something on the breeze (allegorically that is, not biblically) This is why flowers smell. But because you smell a flower or a bee, doesn't mean you've partaken of the golden honey. Much like sight or sound. You can't SEE music can you? Sure(!) you can read a musical score and listen to it, but it's not the same as seeing it. Much in the way you can't smell music. Our senses are limited. And rightly so.


This is why (see above), we need to come to our senses and examine the messages of yesteryear. Wisdom crumbles through the ages, so it's up to us to gather those remnants before they vanish forever.
Somewhere out there on this big globe of ours is a fruit that may very well hold ancient truth.

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

 

[Tanj]

These are the first lessons.
And lessons I am sure to never repeat.

Perhaps instead move onto some other lessons?

What Does the Bible Say About Apples? (emphasis mine)

Song of Solomon 2:3 ESV
As an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. With great delight I sat in his shadow, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

Song of Solomon 2:5 ESV
Sustain me with raisins; refresh me with apples, for I am sick with love.

Proverbs 7:2 ESV
Keep my commandments and live; keep my teaching as the apple of your eye;

Genesis 1:29 ESV
And God said, “Behold, , I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.

 

[Ophiolite]

You utter defiance and faux-knowledge with your first words and use the skinny scapegoat of 'urban legends' as a way out.

My, my. Not just defiance, but utter defiance. I seem to have touched a nerve. Skinny scapegoat and faux-knowledge? You do have a way with words, but - contrary to your claim - I don't require a way out.

You are, very simply, mistaken. There was no complaint. The apple did not strike him, which would have been grounds for the complaint. The only grounds involved were the grounds upon which the apple fell.

Nor, unless we use a very broad definition of the word, did it inspire him to discover gravity. (I think anyone who has fallen down, or dropped a plate, has discovered gravity without the assistance of Newton.) What it did do, based upon his own words, was to prompt him to ask a question. Why do things fall in a straight line? And that led to him developing a theory of gravity.

As for convincing. I don't answer to you.

I didn't say that you did, but you posted your thoughts on apples on a public forum. Unless you are exercising hubris, the most reasonable explanation for that is that you wish to convince others of your view. I am simply performing the small service of pointing out that, so far, you aren't doing to well in that regard.

Now, if you don't like people disagreeing with you, perhaps you should avoid broadcsting your thoughts in public.

I'm trying to have a discussion.

And in a discussion it is quite normal and proper for participants to point out seeming errors in the arguments of others. That is an integral part of most discussions.

Politely, if this conversation offends you in any way then just don't join in, it's as simple as that

I've not been offended by anything you have said. My comments on your thoughts were offered as part of a discussion and were submitted politely. In contrast, your reply is far from polite. However, I find that more amusing than offensive, more puzzling than informative. So, carry on in that style if it makes you more comfortable.

My whole journey here is to figure out how to avoid such a mistake in the future and to try to narrow it down to specifics.

And yet the consensus view of the other participants in this thread is that your journey is based upon false premises. It might be more productive for you to consider that possibility than to be rude and dismissive to those who are trying to have a polite conversation with you.

Much in the way you can't smell music.

Absolutes are so dangerous. They are prone to mislead. Synesthesia.

 

[Monowhite]

You do have a way with words

One must, lest silence befall us.

I don't require a way out

A way out of what?

And that led to him developing a theory of gravity.

Or more precisely, it (the apple) prompted him to think about why things fell to the floor without curvature.

the most reasonable explanation for that is that you wish to convince others of your view.

Almost correct, more so a modern warning, resurrecting the old passages and trying to make sense of them in a modern context. Analysis. Thinking of the future.

I am simply performing the small service of pointing out that, so far, you aren't doing to well in that regard.

Those who brag of charity aren't doing charity. But I appreciate your words all the same.

My comments on your thoughts were offered as part of a discussion and were submitted politely. In contrast, your reply is far from polite. However, I find that more amusing than offensive, more puzzling than informative. So, carry on in that style if it makes you more comfortable.

If you're amused, I am happy. The world needs less grumpy people. As for the puzzling, I'm afraid that's down to you.

And yet the consensus view of the other participants in this thread is that your journey is based upon false premises. It might be more productive for you to consider that possibility than to be rude and dismissive to those who are trying to have a polite conversation with you.

Is this a consensus in your mind? What false premises? Are you denying Eden?

Absolutes are so dangerous. They are prone to mislead.

100% agree.

 

[FireDragon76]

Is there proof that the fruit was really an apple? It is often depicted that way in art, but I don’t think the Bible actually says anything about apples.

In Eastern Orthodoxy, it's is by tradition a pommegranate, not an apple.

An apple is a western Christian art interpretation. The Bible itself doesn't say what the fruit was.

 

[FireDragon76]

Seriously?

Besides figs, there are recurring mentions of grapes, pomegranates, dates, melons, and olives. Apples are one of the less thematically prominent fruits of the Scriptures.

Most apples we are familiar with grow best in climates that get substantial amounts of regular frost in the winter. I live in Florida and the only apples that grow well here are ones that were specially cultivated to grow in Israel. The apple variety is called Ein Shemer, named after a kibbutz in northern Israel. They don't need frost to grow.

 

[ozso]

Apples come from apple trees. The forbidden fruit Adam and Eve ate was from a knowledge tree. Just as Jesus says in Matthew 7:16 that you can't get grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, you can't get apples from a knowledge tree.

 

[ISteveB]

The humble apple.

Why, you might ask?
Why the biblical apple of Eden?
Science dictates an average apple contains fiber and antioxidants, and may help with such physical ailments such as heart disease, cancer and diabetes.
But does it though?

They say an apple a day keeps the Doctor away. This may be true. But does it keep 'you know who' away? SATAN?
The answer is no.

The 'humble' apple was the fruit that Adam stole to impress Eve. Point being, it was the first fruit, the cursed fruit.
A poem always stuck with me.
'Red, green or anywhere between, trust not of this fruit. Baked in a pie or picked from a tree, the lie grows larger if you share the apple with me. The pie is a lie and so is the apple, but a bite of this fruit and you'll be crying in the chapel.'
It's a poem as old as time, but one that continues to provide wisdom.
Some men lay orchards and groves. Some wives use them for pies.
Those people are weak.

Some may consider my apple-aversion as a bit extreme, but I think it's healthy to avoid such temptations. There's plenty of other fruit we can be growing or eating and at the end of the day it's a deliberate aversion rather than an allergy.

In this day and age it becomes tougher by the day to avoid the consumption of apples, especially with the likes of commercial temples like so called 'supermarkets' and 'mega-malls' selling applies in bulk, or juice companies pulping such juice into cartons and selling them off to ignorant consumers. Apples can be found in fruit salads or mixed in with other refreshing fruit juices microscopically. Apples can be found in flavored 'smoking' vapes and crumbles and strudels and football and television. It might be legal, but it's frustrating.

Check the label. I guess that's what I'm getting at. Or ask whoever it is that's serving you and don't take no for an answer..
'Does this contain apple? If so, get rid of it, I don't want to look at it'.
That's all you need to say.

Now back to the bible.

The apple stole paradise from man. Or more precisely, it was the greed of man that wanted more than paradise (perhaps on the whims of his woman [Eve]) and his bite of the apple took paradise away, or the snake deceived him - knowing that the tempation of man with paradise up his sleeve lacked the one fruit, dangling the forbidden fruit above man, like a carrot above a donkey. Only to be banished.
It's a convuloted story with blame being placed all over the place, but the ultimate lesson is:
Apples are a no go.
Sorry, but no.

These are the first lessons.
And lessons I am sure to never repeat.

The apple isn't actually THE forbidden fruit.

Access to the garden was blocked by God in Genesis 3.

The garden was then destroyed by the flood in Genesis 7.

As the forbidden fruit had specific attributes which had the effect of killing Adam's living soul, and resulted in his separation from God, it was a one of a kind fruit.
God tells us that it was in the middle of the garden and according to Eve, a tree whose fruit was quite attractive and desirable for food and to make us wise.

I don't know how anyone would construe the apple as pretty, and desirable to make us wise.

It's a piece of fruit.

Paul tells us in Romans 14, and Colossians 2, as well as Titus 1 that there's nothing inherently wrong or sinful with anything God created, but everything is to be received with thanksgiving.

 

[corinth77777]

Hello Paidiske, I think I would like to push back at your use of the word "fair". Dude does not care if what he believes is true or not. Mystic or not, if he chooses to cross the street as a bus is bearing down on him, it would be "fair" to assume he would very soon become a very flat "mystic". These people are dangerous to themselves and others.

What did He do?

 

[Semper-Fi]

the forbidden fruit of Eden might have been a (Fig Tree)

 

[Monowhite]

This is why I think it's important to keep a list of suspected fruits and maintain distance if you can. I don't think smell genuinely counts, despite a contrarian in this thread previously suggesting the smell/odour of apple pie particles counting as consumption, I disagree. Sometimes we smell all sorts of things one wouldn't want to smell let alone eat. Or perhaps accidentally listening to music that doesn't suit one's musical taste. Just because we heard say... Elvis on the radio, doesn't mean one is a fan.
Nor does it not mean one isn't a fan. It just means a discjockey willingly pumped it out into the airwaves and you just so happened to be passing a radio playing that song.
I didn't choose to willingly listen to Elvis.
The same applies to passing an oven that is perhaps baking bread or an apple pie.
The inhalation of such smells is passive, non-willing.
I didn't choose to smell that apple pie.
The truth is, I believe to absorb anything with absolution, it must be willingly. Otherwise you'd be all over the place.

 

[Chesterton]

I hope this thread isn't petering out. By far the best thread about apples in 2022. Strong contender for Thread About Apples Of The Year.

 

[Von Davidicus]

Apple imagery is used in a positive sense in the Song of Songs. We don't know what the fruit in Eden was, but there's good reason to think it probably wasn't any fruit we know today.

May I go so far to say that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the only one of its kind ever--and we know it was destroyed in the Great Flood, since the story of the Flood does say that Eden perished.

 

[Tinker Grey]

we know it was destroyed in the Great Flood, since the story of the Flood does say that Eden perished.

Cite please. I don't recall the story specifying Eden.