the Olivet Discourse understood

[tailgator]

I think you might want to edit your post to - John 1:49

Well,at least now you know who the real.king of Israel is.
If you could only figure out who the imposter in Jerusalem today is according to scripture.

 

[Douggg]

Well,at least now you know who the real.king of Israel is.
If you could only figure out who the imposter in Jerusalem today is according to scripture.

Netanyahu is not a King of Israel. For a period, in the old testament, Israel was ruled by what are called Judges. Netanyahu would be the equivalent of being a Judge.

The Kings of Israel were anointed by a prophet.

Saul then David was anointed by Samuel the prophet. Solomon was anointed by Nathan the prophet. Solomon was the last king over united Israel.

The Antichrist person will be anointed the King of Israel, by someone the Jews will consider a prophet (who will be the false prophet of Revelation 13.

 

[tailgator]

Netanyahu is not a King of Israel. For a period, in the old testament, Israel was ruled by what are called Judges. Netanyahu would be the equivalent of being a Judge.

The Kings of Israel were anointed by a prophet.

Saul then David was anointed by Samuel the prophet. Solomon was anointed by Nathan the prophet. Solomon was the last king over united Israel.

The Antichrist person will be anointed the King of Israel, by someone the Jews will consider a prophet (who will be the false prophet of Revelation 13.

Netanyahu is antichrist.
You do understand netanyahu denies Jesus is the Christ ,dont you?

Oh wait,you said netanyahu is a good Israeli leader.You believe antichrist is good.

 

[Douggg]

Netanyahu is antichrist.
You do understand netanyahu denies Jesus is the Christ ,dont you?

Oh wait,you said netanyahu is a good Israeli leader.You believe antichrist is good.

Netanyahu is not the Antichrist. He does not believe that Jesus is the messiah, I agree. But that alone, does not make Netanyahu the Antichrist. No more than Paul at one time did not believe Jesus was the messiah, until Paul's experience on the road to Damascus.

Netanyahu does stand up for protection of Christians to believe and worship as they do in Israel. Which, to me, makes him a good Israeli Prime Minister.

 

[tailgator]

Netanyahu is not the Antichrist. He does not believe that Jesus is the messiah, I agree. But that alone, does not make Netanyahu the Antichrist. No more than Paul at one time did not believe Jesus was the messiah, until Paul's experience on the road to Damascus.

Netanyahu does stand up for protection of Christians to believe and worship as they do in Israel. Which, to me, makes him a good Israeli Prime Minister.

Netanyahu is antichrist.All of his government is antichrist.It is the most antichrist government Israel has had since 1948.

John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.


Netanyahu who you say is good,is antichrist.I suspect he will pass legislation next year so that everyone in Israel will receive a marker as he said he would a couple years ago.Everyone in Israel ,except the saints, will receive his mark.It should be soon after president Trump,gives netanyahu an army.Trump says only he can keep Israel safe.No one else can.

They are quite a pair netanyahu and trump.

 

[Douggg]

Netanyahu is antichrist.All of his government is antichrist.It is the most antichrist government Israel has had since 1948.

John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.


Netanyahu who you say is good,is antichrist.I suspect he will pass legislation next year so that everyone in Israel will receive a marker as he said he would a couple years ago.Everyone in Israel ,except the saints, will receive his mark.It should be soon after president Trump,gives netanyahu an army.Trump says only he can keep Israel safe.No one else can.

They are quite a pair netanyahu and trump.

Netanyahu does not fit the mold of being an antichrist as John spoke of in 1John2. John described persons that he called antichrists as have gone out from Christian circles, showing that they never were part of the body of Christ to begin with.

Netanyahu never was a Christian. John was speaking about persons who left Christianity, to deny the Father/Son relationship of Jesus and His Father in heaven.

An example of a modern day antichrist, in John's mold of being an antichrist, is Yusuf Estes. He was once a Christian preacher, who left Christianity to become a Muslim, and denies that Jesus is the Son of God as we Christians believe. There are several You Tube videos by him, if you want to know more.
.

 

[tailgator]

Netanyahu does not fit the mold of being an antichrist as John spoke of in 1John2. John described persons that he called antichrists as have gone out from Christian circles, showing that they never were part of the body of Christ to begin with.

Netanyahu never was a Christian. John was speaking about persons who left Christianity, to deny the Father/Son relationship of Jesus and His Father in heaven.

An example of a modern day antichrist, in John's mold of being an antichrist, is Yusuf Estes. He was once a Christian preacher, who left Christianity to become a Muslim, and denies that Jesus is the Son of God as we Christians believe. There are several You Tube videos by him, if you want to know more.
.

Well,Trump is the one who is showing forth that he is the chosen one and he did move the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem as scripture says.
I expect Trump to finish what is written about him and Netanyahu the same.
You can argue all you want about how the people you support are good guys but they are fulfilling prophecy and they both fit their positions.

 

[Douggg]

Well,Trump is the one who is showing forth that he is the chosen one and he did move the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem as scripture says.
I expect Trump to finish what is written about him and Netanyahu the same.
You can argue all you want about how the people you support are good guys but they are fulfilling prophecy and they both fit their positions.

This person is a more likely candidate to be the person.

 

[Jamdoc]

What does this passage mean?...

Matt 24.Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

This happened in 70 AD, about 40 years after Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This is not Last Days prophecy--this happened in the generation of those alive in Jesus' time.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

These "Birth Pains" took place in Jesus' own generation. They anticipated the coming fall of Jerusalem to the Romans. There were rumors of wars, warning Jesus' Disciples that this judgment was surely coming. The signs included indications God was unhappy with Israel and was soon to bring final judgment to them.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Jesus' own Disciples among the Jewish People would be rejected and persecuted by apostate Israel, ie by their unbelieving Jewish brothers. This was some of the sin for which God was bringing judgment to Israel in 70 AD.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

There is no question, particularly when the parallel account is read in Luke 21, that this is about a Great Tribulation spanning the entire NT age. That's what makes it the "Great Tribulation." It's the greatest punishment that Israel has ever experienced--the longest punishment in its history. And when Israel experienced punishment, they suffered the tribulation of exile and the curses that followed them in that exile. It is called the "Jewish Diaspora."

The "Abomination of Desolation" is spelled out in Daniel, and is not to be confused with another AoD mentioned in Daniel, which applied to Antiochus 4 of Syria. This particular AoD originates from Dan 9 where the "people of the prince to come," an Army, is to come to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. That's the AoD Jesus is speaking of here.

And the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD was merely the start of Israel's exile and an entire age of Jewish Diaspora. It was to last until the preaching of the Gospel is preached to the whole world as a warning of ultimate judgment for human sin.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

As there was in that early generation so it continues throughout the age that Millennial groups attempt to state that they are the "move of Christ" to bring God's Kingdom to earth. But God is concerned about the ultimate destruction of the Jewish People before He can judge and remove the wicked from among them in order to restore the nation using the repentant. And so, Christ will in the end come from heaven to bring an end to Israel's oppression and to save the Church from their persecution.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

In accordance with Dan 7, the Son of Man comes from the clouds, ie from heaven, and not before. In other words, even as false Messianic movements proliferated the Roman army would gather around Jerusalem. And Jesus would not deliver Israel at that time, but would come later with the clouds.

So Jesus warns his Disciples that the Roman "vultures" will gather against Jerusalem to destroy the Temple. The Romans carried "eagle" standards, representing gods that they worshiped. They gathered "like eagles" around Jerusalem, the "corpse." Deliverance from heaven will not come before Israel is brought under judgment in that generation.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

It is after the Jewish Distress of the present age, while Christians are persecuted, that Christ, the Son of Man, will return from heaven, but not before.

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."

This is the completion of what Daniel saw in Dan 7, which is the coming of the Son of Man from heaven to destroy the persecutors of the Church and to establish God's Kingdom on their behalf. Daniel there portrays the coming of the Son of Man to destroy Antichrist, the Man of Sin, who opposes God's People and His Kingdom.

as soon as I see "70AD" I see it as "the olivet discourse misunderstood"

because Jesus said all these things would happen within a generation including His return.
Jesus didn't return in 70AD, therefore, that was not the fulfillment of "all these things"

 

[Jamdoc]

This person is a more likely candidate to be the person.

Elected to office that is got put into power by the normal means disqualifies him. Daniel 11 has him as an illegitimate successor.

 

[tailgator]

This person is a more likely candidate to be the person.

Good grief,You believe Ukraine is stronger than the most powerful country in the world ?That's like picking the little sisters of the poor to beat Notre Dame.

Geesh.Trump would tell you himself that he is the chosen one.

Trump says he is the only who can keep Israel.safe.I think that may be In the bible somewhere.


“I kept Israel safe, remember that. I kept Israel safe,” he said in a video posted to Truth Social. “Nobody else will, nobody else can, and I know all of the players.”

 

[Jamdoc]

Neither Trump, nor Zelensky, nor any current or past world leader is Antichrist.

Daniel 11 says Antichrist will not come to power by right, (IE not a legitimate heir nor elected, he won't come to power the normal established way) but will take the kingdom by flatteries, he will not take it by force, ruling out any military dictators. He'll be third in succession (but an illegitimate successor) to the King of the North, the King of The North being the King of the north splinter of the empire that attacks Iran and conquers it (and Gabriel said Daniel 8 is an end times vision, Alexander was not its fulfillment though a foreshadow).

Let's look closely at Daniel 11's setup:

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

Persia is Iran, and remember, the ancient Persian empire.. is not last days, but Gabriel said Daniel 8 was about the last days.
So first, there will be a total of 4 kings in Iran. If that is the modern state of Iran, it can be interpreted as the Supreme Leader of Iran, which we are on the 2nd of 4, but Khamenei is terminally ill with prostate cancer, it has come back, so it will end up killing him, he's also just old, in his late 80's. So we'll be on the 3rd Supreme leader soon. But that still means.. years away, perhaps more than a decade.
the fourth King, will somehow enrage "Grecia" though the word they translate to Greece or Grecia is "Javan", one of the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah. It's translated as Greece because of the assumption that Greece fulfilled this despite it being said it's "final indignation" by Gabriel.

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

The leader of Javan, which would be coming from the west coast of Turkey around Istanbul into eastern Greece, but I think Istanbul is the main takeaway here, will get enraged against Persia and break Persia. They attack Iran and conquer it.

4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

But this first King (and Alexander III was the 23rd Macedonian King) will die shortly after, and his empire will be divided into 4 regions.. and take note. It won't be his descendants OR ACCORDING TO HIS DOMINION. That is an inaccuracy with the historic interpretation. Alexander's Generals took control. This is not that. This is an OUTSIDE FORCE will divide up this empire and control it. IE a speculative scenario: The Ottoman Empire comes back, attacks Iran, and starts taking territory, the UN or a US led coalition, steps in and destroys this new Ottoman Empire, kills its emperor, and then the UN divides up the territory into 4 new countries.

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

so the South (presumably Egypt) and North fragments of this Javan empire start out trying to unite the two of them, but Egypt moves against the North, and verses 7-18 are about war between the King of the North and King of the South

Now we get closer to who becomes Antichrist:

19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

First the leader of the Northern fragment of the Javan empire dies coming back from a war campaign.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

a bureaucrat replaces him initially, but dies suddenly but not from a known attack, likely, subterfuge.

Now antichrist

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

So not elected, not approved successor, or a conqueror, but gets appointed to the position, I don't know if this is by the 10 Kings in Revelation 17 or not, but likely.

But the key characteristics:
3rd leader of a new country formed from the breakup of a new Empire that only has 1 Emperor before being broken up.
Is not the legitimate normally elected or normal heir of that country's leadership, comes to power in an unusual way likely appointed.
Seems insignificant at first, he is called the LITTLE HORN for a reason.

So if you're looking at someone like .. King Charles.. disqualified, not a new nation, isn't the 3rd leader of that new nation, and was the rightful heir to the throne.
Donald Trump, disqualified, wrong region of the world, and was normally elected to power, and was never a little horn, when he became leader he was leader of the most powerful country in the world. Little horn means he's the leader of somewhere considered insignificant at the time.
Zelensky, not the 3rd leader of the country, and elected.

 

[tailgator]

Neither Trump, nor Zelensky, nor any current or past world leader is Antichrist.

Daniel 11 says Antichrist will not come to power by right, (IE not a legitimate heir nor elected, he won't come to power the normal established way) but will take the kingdom by flatteries, he will not take it by force, ruling out any military dictators. He'll be third in succession (but an illegitimate successor) to the King of the North, the King of The North being the King of the north splinter of the empire that attacks Iran and conquers it (and Gabriel said Daniel 8 is an end times vision, Alexander was not its fulfillment though a foreshadow).

Let's look closely at Daniel 11's setup:

Persia is Iran, and remember, the ancient Persian empire.. is not last days, but Gabriel said Daniel 8 was about the last days.
So first, there will be a total of 4 kings in Iran. If that is the modern state of Iran, it can be interpreted as the Supreme Leader of Iran, which we are on the 2nd of 4, but Khamenei is terminally ill with prostate cancer, it has come back, so it will end up killing him, he's also just old, in his late 80's. So we'll be on the 3rd Supreme leader soon. But that still means.. years away, perhaps more than a decade.
the fourth King, will somehow enrage "Grecia" though the word they translate to Greece or Grecia is "Javan", one of the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah. It's translated as Greece because of the assumption that Greece fulfilled this despite it being said it's "final indignation" by Gabriel.


The leader of Javan, which would be coming from the west coast of Turkey around Istanbul into eastern Greece, but I think Istanbul is the main takeaway here, will get enraged against Persia and break Persia. They attack Iran and conquer it.


But this first King (and Alexander III was the 23rd Macedonian King) will die shortly after, and his empire will be divided into 4 regions.. and take note. It won't be his descendants OR ACCORDING TO HIS DOMINION. That is an inaccuracy with the historic interpretation. Alexander's Generals took control. This is not that. This is an OUTSIDE FORCE will divide up this empire and control it. IE a speculative scenario: The Ottoman Empire comes back, attacks Iran, and starts taking territory, the UN or a US led coalition, steps in and destroys this new Ottoman Empire, kills its emperor, and then the UN divides up the territory into 4 new countries.



so the South (presumably Egypt) and North fragments of this Javan empire start out trying to unite the two of them, but Egypt moves against the North, and verses 7-18 are about war between the King of the North and King of the South

Now we get closer to who becomes Antichrist:


First the leader of the Northern fragment of the Javan empire dies coming back from a war campaign.


a bureaucrat replaces him initially, but dies suddenly but not from a known attack, likely, subterfuge.

Now antichrist

So not elected, not approved successor, or a conqueror, but gets appointed to the position, I don't know if this is by the 10 Kings in Revelation 17 or not, but likely.

But the key characteristics:
3rd leader of a new country formed from the breakup of a new Empire that only has 1 Emperor before being broken up.
Is not the legitimate normally elected or normal heir of that country's leadership, comes to power in an unusual way likely appointed.
Seems insignificant at first, he is called the LITTLE HORN for a reason.

So if you're looking at someone like .. King Charles.. disqualified, not a new nation, isn't the 3rd leader of that new nation, and was the rightful heir to the throne.
Donald Trump, disqualified, wrong region of the world, and was normally elected to power, and was never a little horn, when he became leader he was leader of the most powerful country in the world. Little horn means he's the leader of somewhere considered insignificant at the time.
Zelensky, not the 3rd leader of the country, and elected.

Donald Trump was not in line for royal succesion.He was an outsider not of the establishment.He obtained the kingdom through intrigue.
Donald Trump also moved the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.
Did you read about that?

 

[tailgator]

Neither Trump, nor Zelensky, nor any current or past world leader is Antichrist.

Daniel 11 says Antichrist will not come to power by right, (IE not a legitimate heir nor elected, he won't come to power the normal established way) but will take the kingdom by flatteries, he will not take it by force, ruling out any military dictators. He'll be third in succession (but an illegitimate successor) to the King of the North, the King of The North being the King of the north splinter of the empire that attacks Iran and conquers it (and Gabriel said Daniel 8 is an end times vision, Alexander was not its fulfillment though a foreshadow).

Let's look closely at Daniel 11's setup:

Persia is Iran, and remember, the ancient Persian empire.. is not last days, but Gabriel said Daniel 8 was about the last days.
So first, there will be a total of 4 kings in Iran. If that is the modern state of Iran, it can be interpreted as the Supreme Leader of Iran, which we are on the 2nd of 4, but Khamenei is terminally ill with prostate cancer, it has come back, so it will end up killing him, he's also just old, in his late 80's. So we'll be on the 3rd Supreme leader soon. But that still means.. years away, perhaps more than a decade.
the fourth King, will somehow enrage "Grecia" though the word they translate to Greece or Grecia is "Javan", one of the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah. It's translated as Greece because of the assumption that Greece fulfilled this despite it being said it's "final indignation" by Gabriel.


The leader of Javan, which would be coming from the west coast of Turkey around Istanbul into eastern Greece, but I think Istanbul is the main takeaway here, will get enraged against Persia and break Persia. They attack Iran and conquer it.


But this first King (and Alexander III was the 23rd Macedonian King) will die shortly after, and his empire will be divided into 4 regions.. and take note. It won't be his descendants OR ACCORDING TO HIS DOMINION. That is an inaccuracy with the historic interpretation. Alexander's Generals took control. This is not that. This is an OUTSIDE FORCE will divide up this empire and control it. IE a speculative scenario: The Ottoman Empire comes back, attacks Iran, and starts taking territory, the UN or a US led coalition, steps in and destroys this new Ottoman Empire, kills its emperor, and then the UN divides up the territory into 4 new countries.



so the South (presumably Egypt) and North fragments of this Javan empire start out trying to unite the two of them, but Egypt moves against the North, and verses 7-18 are about war between the King of the North and King of the South

Now we get closer to who becomes Antichrist:


First the leader of the Northern fragment of the Javan empire dies coming back from a war campaign.


a bureaucrat replaces him initially, but dies suddenly but not from a known attack, likely, subterfuge.

Now antichrist

So not elected, not approved successor, or a conqueror, but gets appointed to the position, I don't know if this is by the 10 Kings in Revelation 17 or not, but likely.

But the key characteristics:
3rd leader of a new country formed from the breakup of a new Empire that only has 1 Emperor before being broken up.
Is not the legitimate normally elected or normal heir of that country's leadership, comes to power in an unusual way likely appointed.
Seems insignificant at first, he is called the LITTLE HORN for a reason.

So if you're looking at someone like .. King Charles.. disqualified, not a new nation, isn't the 3rd leader of that new nation, and was the rightful heir to the throne.
Donald Trump, disqualified, wrong region of the world, and was normally elected to power, and was never a little horn, when he became leader he was leader of the most powerful country in the world. Little horn means he's the leader of somewhere considered insignificant at the time.
Zelensky, not the 3rd leader of the country, and elected.

You should read about the kings before Daniel 11:21 and compare those verses to the kings that preceded Trump.The wars and all.I found those verses quite telling.
.

 

[Douggg]

Neither Trump, nor Zelensky, nor any current or past world leader is Antichrist.

Daniel 11 says Antichrist will not come to power by right, (IE not a legitimate heir nor elected, he won't come to power the normal established way) but will take the kingdom by flatteries, he will not take it by force, ruling out any military dictators. He'll be third in succession (but an illegitimate successor) to the King of the North, the King of The North being the King of the north splinter of the empire that attacks Iran and conquers it (and Gabriel said Daniel 8 is an end times vision, Alexander was not its fulfillment though a foreshadow).

Let's look closely at Daniel 11's setup:

Persia is Iran, and remember, the ancient Persian empire.. is not last days, but Gabriel said Daniel 8 was about the last days.
So first, there will be a total of 4 kings in Iran. If that is the modern state of Iran, it can be interpreted as the Supreme Leader of Iran, which we are on the 2nd of 4, but Khamenei is terminally ill with prostate cancer, it has come back, so it will end up killing him, he's also just old, in his late 80's. So we'll be on the 3rd Supreme leader soon. But that still means.. years away, perhaps more than a decade.
the fourth King, will somehow enrage "Grecia" though the word they translate to Greece or Grecia is "Javan", one of the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah. It's translated as Greece because of the assumption that Greece fulfilled this despite it being said it's "final indignation" by Gabriel.


The leader of Javan, which would be coming from the west coast of Turkey around Istanbul into eastern Greece, but I think Istanbul is the main takeaway here, will get enraged against Persia and break Persia. They attack Iran and conquer it.


But this first King (and Alexander III was the 23rd Macedonian King) will die shortly after, and his empire will be divided into 4 regions.. and take note. It won't be his descendants OR ACCORDING TO HIS DOMINION. That is an inaccuracy with the historic interpretation. Alexander's Generals took control. This is not that. This is an OUTSIDE FORCE will divide up this empire and control it. IE a speculative scenario: The Ottoman Empire comes back, attacks Iran, and starts taking territory, the UN or a US led coalition, steps in and destroys this new Ottoman Empire, kills its emperor, and then the UN divides up the territory into 4 new countries.



so the South (presumably Egypt) and North fragments of this Javan empire start out trying to unite the two of them, but Egypt moves against the North, and verses 7-18 are about war between the King of the North and King of the South

Now we get closer to who becomes Antichrist:


First the leader of the Northern fragment of the Javan empire dies coming back from a war campaign.


a bureaucrat replaces him initially, but dies suddenly but not from a known attack, likely, subterfuge.

Now antichrist

So not elected, not approved successor, or a conqueror, but gets appointed to the position, I don't know if this is by the 10 Kings in Revelation 17 or not, but likely.

But the key characteristics:
3rd leader of a new country formed from the breakup of a new Empire that only has 1 Emperor before being broken up.
Is not the legitimate normally elected or normal heir of that country's leadership, comes to power in an unusual way likely appointed.
Seems insignificant at first, he is called the LITTLE HORN for a reason.

So if you're looking at someone like .. King Charles.. disqualified, not a new nation, isn't the 3rd leader of that new nation, and was the rightful heir to the throne.
Donald Trump, disqualified, wrong region of the world, and was normally elected to power, and was never a little horn, when he became leader he was leader of the most powerful country in the world. Little horn means he's the leader of somewhere considered insignificant at the time.
Zelensky, not the 3rd leader of the country, and elected.

Everything in Daniel 11 is historic, until verse 36. In verse 36, that king is the beast-king, the Antichrist in his final stage.

 

[tailgator]

Everything in Daniel 11 is historic, until verse 36. In verse 36, that king is the beast-king, the Antichrist in his final stage.

I've been watching Daniel 11 just like watching TV.
Have you been watching or having you been ignoring?

 

[Jipsah]

This is the completion of what Daniel saw in Dan 7, which is the coming of the Son of Man from heaven to destroy the persecutors of the Church and to establish God's Kingdom on their behalf. Daniel there portrays the coming of the Son of Man to destroy Antichrist, the Man of Sin, who opposes God's People and His Kingdom.

I could quibble about some of your conclusions, but it would come under the general heading of gnat straining. WE're certainly on the same frequemcy.

 

[Jamdoc]

Donald Trump was not in line for royal succesion.He was an outsider not of the establishment.He obtained the kingdom through intrigue.
Donald Trump also moved the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.
Did you read about that?

Donald Trump isn't even remotely from the right region of the world.
and he was elected in 2016, and considering Biden's performance in the debate.. stands a strong chance of being elected in 2024.
Antichrist does not get elected.
he gets appointed.

 

[Jamdoc]

Everything in Daniel 11 is historic, until verse 36. In verse 36, that king is the beast-king, the Antichrist in his final stage.

No it isn't. Stop letting men who were reading a sealed book tell you what it means.

The Angel Gabriel said that Daniel 8 was an vision of the end.

Daniel 8

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Anyone who says this was 300BC, instantly wrong.
as the time of the end could not even be declared in the slightest.. until Pentecost, after the crucifixion.
If it's BC, it's not the time of the end, and therefore disagrees with a divine messenger of God.
Men try their best but in this case, they're in error.
I will outright declare:
That every single person interpreting Daniel 7, 8, 9, 11, and 12 as being historic events. Is wrong.
They may be foreshadows. But the true fulfillment of it, is yet future.

With that understanding in mind. Daniel is the book that tells us about the rise of Antichrist to power. The sign that Jesus told us to understand, comes from those chapters of Daniel. When ye see the abomination of desolation.
Not when ye study the historic event of the abomination of desolation.
When ye see it.
It's going to happen shortly before Jesus returns, and there are instructions attached to seeing it happen.

 

[RandyPNW]

as soon as I see "70AD" I see it as "the olivet discourse misunderstood"

because Jesus said all these things would happen within a generation including His return.
Jesus didn't return in 70AD, therefore, that was not the fulfillment of "all these things"

Yes, this is the most common misperception of what Jesus was saying, in my opinion. Language is like that. It isn't perfectly geometric where you can be so precise that every detail is explained as a conversation is in process.

I believe Jesus introduced the main theme, which was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. He could digress without losing his train of thought, that this was about 70 AD. He could mention the Gospel going out to all nations until the end of the age without losing sense that the main issue was what was going to transpire in his generation.

And so, when Jesus said "all these things" will take place, he assumes the listener would understand that the things he was talking about were the things leading up to 70 AD and not peripheral items concerned with his Coming and the end of the age. In fact, Jesus made his Coming a long ways off from his own generation, when the Jewish exile comes to an end.

This is the way we talk today. I will give you an example. I predict Mt. St. Helens is going to erupt. And the signs that it is going to erupt are emissions of smoke, rumblings, and the frequency of these indicators. I may digress to mention that after the eruption people will have fled, and some will die. And much of the greenery will be ruined. Spirit Lake will be devasted.

But then I return to the main subject, which is the prophecy that the volcano will erupt. And so I say, "All these things" will take place before the eruption takes place. Obviously, I'm not referring to people dying, Spirit Lake being ruined, and the greenery destroyed--those things happen after the eruption.

In Jesus' case, he mentions things that obviously happen after 70 AD, the destruction of the Jewish People, including their long exile, the preaching of the Gospel to other nations, etc. But when Jesus returns to the main subject, which was 70 AD, he says "all these things will happen, though the end is not yet."

What he's referring to are the signs that obviously precede the 70 AD event, which he called "Birth Pains." He was not including in them peripheral matters that obviously follow this major event. He was obviously not including his Coming, which follows the 70 AD event by a very long time.

You should recognize, initially, that Jesus started this Discourse by prophesying the 70 AD event--not his 2nd Coming. This statement prompted a response by his Disciples, who asked about this 70 event, and also questioned how it might related to the 2nd Coming, or the Coming of Christ's Kingdom.

And so, the 2nd Coming was peripheral to the main subject Jesus introduced, which was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The major signs introducing this 70 AD were what were on the forefront of Jesus' mind, and should've been on the top of mind of Jesus' Disciples. They wanted to know "when."

So Jesus explained to them that these "Birth Pains" would be signs in their own generation that it was imminent, and not far off. Ezekiel had a similar vision in his book in which Israel thought judgment was far off, but the Prophet said that it was imminent. That was also a major judgment against Jerusalem, coming at that time from the Babylonians.

Eze 12.21 The word of the Lord came to me: 22 “Son of man, what is this proverb you have in the land of Israel: ‘The days go by and every vision comes to nothing’? 23 Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to put an end to this proverb, and they will no longer quote it in Israel.’ Say to them, ‘The days are near when every vision will be fulfilled. 24 For there will be no more false visions or flattering divinations among the people of Israel.

I think you can see how Ezekiel's prophecy parallels that of Jesus? There is the prediction of an imminent judgment in that generation. And there would be false prophecies trying to distract people away from this danger. Jesus warned about "false prophets."

This judgment, coming by the Romans, would be imminent, and all of these Birth Pain signs would be preliminary, and not the end of the age, or related to Christ's 2nd Coming. I hope this helps somebody?