the Olivet Discourse understood

[RandyPNW]

It is getting late here. God bless.

I hear ya... God bless you too.

 

[AlexB23]

I hear ya... God bless you too.

Thanks. We will never know the hour, but it could be tonight, it could be 1000 years from now, but it does seem likely to happen sooner than later.

 

[Fisherking]

These "Birth Pains" took place in Jesus' own generation.

No, you miss the point Jesus is making and the cut off point of verse 6. Verses 7 and 8 are not a part of verses 4-13 in reality because every other verse in verse 4-13 is about the Disciples lives on earth, so you do understand that, but then you do not get verses 7-8 is only given in this context (this is KEY) its only given to demonstrate to the disciples why 70 AD (verses 4-6) can not be the end, as Jesus says in vs. 6, its later on, THEN he shows why it has to be later on in verses 7-8 and then JUMPS right back to the Disciples lives in verses 9-13, they will KILL YOU, but you MUST ENDURE until the end [of your lives], so do not be like Judas. Then in vs. 14 Jesus demonstrates why vs. 6 (70 AD events) can not be end times, the Gospel has to be preached unto all the earth, the disciples knew of China, India and the Scythians (modern day Russia) and so they knew 100 % that they would never see Jesus' 2nd coming and getting this across to his disciples was very important, if they had rushed back to Jerusalem when they head of those wars and rumors of wars then they would have all be killed, and the Churches would have rushed back with them, killing of the church in its infancy.

The only reason the Birth Pangs are given is to show the disciples the 70th week is far, far away. It will not be Jesus come again in 70 AD, and HERES WHY........Nation must Rise against Nation and Clan (ethos) vs. Clan, but Rome outlawed wars, LOL. No one was rising against anyone else Rome would CRUSH THEM. Earthquakes were going to get worse and worse and the Disciples probably never heard of a major earthquake in their lives. Famine, must become frequent, etc. etc. Jesus was showing them WHY vs. 6 was not the end nor could it be by demonstrating with "Birth Pangs" how things must get gradually worse and worse, and Nations must rise against Nations and Rome under the Pax Romanus would have none of that, and the disciples understood this, they were Roman Citizens.

So, you sense verses 7-8 is about a crescendo unto the very end times, but you chose I guess to say they came 2000 years ago. But verses 7-8 is Jesus demonstrating why vs. 6 can not be THE END. (70th week)

 

[RandyPNW]

Thanks. We will never know the hour, but it could be tonight, it could be 1000 years from now, but it does seem likely to happen sooner than later.

No, it could not be tonight, in my view. That is standard "Imminency Doctrine." I don't hold to that. God has set a day for the Return of His Son, and it will be on the day He comes to defeat Antichrist.

Though I'm not PreWrath, here is a PreWrath article on imminency that shows its deficiencies... CLICK

 

[tailgator]

Is Israel the Little Horn, as it is shaped like a horn?

A horn stands for an authority figure like a king.
Is Israel the little horn?
Yes.

The Israeli government would be considered a horn.Its kingdom is little but it appears stouter than it's fellows and it subdued three horns when it obtained the seven hilled city of Jerusalem.

The end time prophecies cover ing the beast are being fulfilled.The false prophet will probably arrive in the promised land next year after Trump is reelected.

 

[tailgator]

What keeps antiSemitism alive is this notion that *all generations of Jews* are guilty of the generation that rejected Jesus. This can't possibly be true--not even if Jews are still rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. The 1st generation not just rejected him, but they saw him, and gave him over to the Romans to be crucified.

The Jews alive today didn't ever see Jesus personally, and certainly don't reject him in the sense that they have met him and rejected him. Many of them probably don't even know what's in the NT Scriptures? To continue to condemn Jews today for things Jews did 2000 years ago is an intolerable attitude and judgment. It is, I believe, a form of anti-Semitism.

No, Jesus addressed his own generation of Jews, who were wanting to have him killed. It is for that particular crime that God was going to send judgment upon Jerusalem and have the Jewish people sent into a very, very long exile--the Jewish Diaspora.

You do err not knowing the word of God.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”


If they reject the gospel of Jesus Christ as given to us by the apostles ,then they reject Jesus Christ.

If someone does not worship the beast ,they are called antisemitic.You can call me antisemitic all you want ,I will still follow my Lord who is a Jew and I will recognize the beast for what it is.
The Israeli governor is the beast.

 

[RandyPNW]

You do err not knowing the word of God.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

So you think you're in Jesus whenever you quote Scriptures? The Pharisees did the same and were highly judgmental. Jesus consigned them to the trash bin.

If someone does not worship the beast ,they are called antisemitic.You can call me antisemitic all you want ,I will still follow my Lord who is a Jew and I will recognize the beast for what it is.
The Israeli governor is the beast.

You can hold to ridiculous positions if you want. God is your judge--not me.

I'm not calling you antisemitic. I'm saying that your position leads to antisemitism. That's why I think you should seriously reconsider your position.

Entire nations may as a majority reject Christianity without fully knowing what they're doing. And some may still, among the minority, accept Jesus.

Why would you want to judge them all as if they fully know what they're doing? Do you really think you'll reach the Jews when you've already judged them as evil?

 

[Douggg]

So, what do you think about 1948 Israel founding, and 1967 Israel borders? Could these two dates represent the fig tree blooming? And then a Biblical generation after (70-80 years) would not die? That means 1948+70 years = 2018 and 1967 + 80 years = 2047. That means the end times could happen any time between now and 2047, with 2018-2023 being out of the question?

1967+70 = 2037 no later than.

2030 no later than, the start of the 70th week Daniel 9:27, and the Gog/Magog event.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Great paper I found online: https://tms.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/tmsj13f.pdf

 

[tailgator]

So you think you're in Jesus whenever you quote Scriptures? The Pharisees did the same and were highly judgmental. Jesus consigned them to the trash bin.

You can hold to ridiculous positions if you want. God is your judge--not me.

I'm not calling you antisemitic. I'm saying that your position leads to antisemitism. That's why I think you should seriously reconsider your position.

Entire nations may as a majority reject Christianity without fully knowing what they're doing. And some may still, among the minority, accept Jesus.

Why would you want to judge them all as if they fully know what they're doing? Do you really think you'll reach the Jews when you've already judged them as evil?

So you too reject the words of Jesus Christ.
Again,these are the words of Jesus Christ. The word of God.You can either except him ,or reject him.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

 

[AlexB23]

1967+70 = 2037 no later than.

2030 no later than, the start of the 70th week Daniel 9:27, and the Gog/Magog event.



View attachment 350855

Ok

 

[RandyPNW]

So you too reject the words of Jesus Christ.
Again,these are the words of Jesus Christ. The word of God.You can either except him ,or reject him.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

You're high on yourself, and misrepresenting God's word. Your word is not equal to God's word.

 

[tailgator]

You're high on yourself, and misrepresenting God's word. Your word is not equal to God's word.

It's not my word at all.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

 

[RandyPNW]

It's not my word at all.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

I don't have a problem with the Scriptures--only when you wish to use it to represent yourself as Jesus. I hope that's not what you're doing. However, in context you're using it to defend *your word.*

 

[tailgator]

I don't have a problem with the Scriptures--only when you wish to use it to represent yourself as Jesus. I hope that's not what you're doing. However, in context you're using it to defend *your word.*

It's not about me or my word.

Mark 16

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[RandyPNW]

It's not about me or my word.

Mark 16

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, we all present the word of God. But often what we're doing is recommending *our interpretation* of God's word. In that case, rejecting your interpretation of God's word might be the right thing to do.

This is the whole reason I argue that Christian orthodoxy is determined by explicit biblical statements of doctrine. If our views are debatable among orthodox believers, then the Scriptures we base our arguments on may not be so obvious.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, we all present the word of God. But often what we're doing is recommending *our interpretation* of God's word. In that case, rejecting your interpretation of God's word might be the right thing to do.

This is the whole reason I argue that Christian orthodoxy is determined by explicit biblical statements of doctrine. If our views are debatable among orthodox believers, then the Scriptures we base our arguments on may not be so obvious.

Oh,I see you arguing with the word of God himself.You simply don't believe it could be true .

Here it is again.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

 

[Douggg]

A horn stands for an authority figure like a king.
Is Israel the little horn?
Yes.

The little horn is a person, not a nation.

However, the little horn will be tied to the two kingdoms of the EU and Israel (to Israel, for about three years), in this order...

1. starting out being the leader over ten EU leaders. The EU being the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times.

then becomes the prince that shall come, following Gog/Magog event.

2. then becomes the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah - the Antichrist.

then becomes the revealed man of sin. End of his time as the King of Israel, thought-to- be messiah.

3. then become the beast-king , dictator of the EU.

That's our basic framework to watch for trying to figure out who that person actually is. He has to be a Jew and a politician. I am watching Zelensky of Ukraine. Too early to tell for certain.

It will not be Trump.

 

[RandyPNW]

Oh,I see you arguing with the word of God himself.You simply don't believe it could be true .

Here it is again.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

You must be imagining something. I'm not arguing or rejecting this verse. Do you really want to have a conversation over nothing?

This, however, is off, in my opinion. You said:

"The end time prophecies covering the beast are being fulfilled. The false prophet will probably arrive in the promised land next year after Trump is reelected."

I think the Antichrist will rise 1st by taking 10 European states and joining them into a confederation under his control. Then, the False Prophet, managing two large jurisdictions, will throw his religious support behind the Antichristian Empire.

You also said this (concerning the Jews):

"They are still misrepresenting God's kingdom.
They claim it is theirs.They claim it was promised to them for an everlasting possession..They will be removed when Jesus comes.

Mathew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

This is a matter of debate--it isn't settled among Christians. You claim that anybody who rejects your *interpretation* of God's word is opposing God. That is wrong-headed and sectarian in spirit. There are good Christians on both sides of this.

I believe God promised Abraham a nation forever--as long as the age of mortal man continues. Whether or not there will be a future age in which Israel obtains its national promise again is open for debate. Amillennialists think it's all over when Christ comes--the Jews won't get a 2nd chance. Premills like myself believe the Jews will get a 2nd chance *after* Christ returns in the Millennial Age.

Why fight over it? Good Christians on both sides....

But I think I may have misunderstood your motive initially when you said this:

"You do err not knowing the word of God.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

I think you were trying to point out that since the Jews rejected Jesus they rejected God. But my argument was that though the early generation of Jews rejected Jesus, fully conscious of who he was, future generation of Jews would be rejecting something that don't fully understand. We can't put all Jews in the same barrel just because an early generation of Jews consciously turned against their Messiah!

But you passed judgment on Jews by indicating that there is no more hope for their nation, and then passed judgment on me, as well, saying that "I err." Well, I don't care if you think I'm in error. It just bothers me that you support your judgment with the same spirit by which you consign the Jewish People to the dustbin in history.

That may or may not be true that Israel, as a nation, can not be restored. But just writing them all off en mass as a people in the Middle East is not a standard I think anybody can use for any nation. Is that what you're doing?

 

[tailgator]

The little horn is a person, not a nation.

However, the little horn will be tied to the two kingdoms of the EU and Israel (to Israel, for about three years), in this order...

1. starting out being the leader over ten EU leaders. The EU being the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times.

then becomes the prince that shall come, following Gog/Magog event.

2. then becomes the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah - the Antichrist.

then becomes the revealed man of sin. End of his time as the King of Israel, thought-to- be messiah.

3. then become the beast-king , dictator of the EU.

That's our basic framework to watch for trying to figure out who that person actually is. He has to be a Jew and a politician. I am watching Zelensky of Ukraine. Too early to tell for certain.

It will not be Trump.

Well,Israel is the little country in the kingdom that came up last and is diverse.It also appears stouter than it's fellows and subdued three kings .


Seems to fit Daniel description like a glove.