the Middle moved... a long time ago

[Hank77]

f that were the case, there wouldn't be so much infighting in the GOP between state level and federal level. (Guys like Mike Dewine, Bill Weld, Charlie Baker, and Larry Hogan represent the mindsets of a substantial number of people who identify as republicans)

That's true and some of them are publically speaking out and asking other Republicans to not vote for Trump. They see that the GOP has been taken over and can't even identify with this Republican party.
On YouTube search RVAT and listen to what they are saying. RVAT (Republican Voters Against Trump) is even running ads. The Lincoln Project is too.

 

[jgarden]

A bit of an exaggeration there -

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rates declined in July for adult men (9.4 percent), adult women (10.5 percent), teenagers (19.3 percent), Whites (9.2 percent), Asians (12.0 percent), and Hispanics (12.9 percent). The jobless rate for Blacks (14.6 percent) showed little change over the month. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of unemployed persons who were on temporary layoff decreased by 1.3 million in July to 9.2 million, about half its April level. In July, the number of permanent job losers and the number of unemployed reentrants to the labor force were virtually unchanged over the month, at 2.9 million and 2.4 million, respectively. (Reentrants are persons who previously worked but were not in the labor force prior to beginning their job search.) (See table A-11.)​

Not anywhere near your assumption.

Over a million Americans have applied for unemployment benefits for the last 20 weeks!

A survey from Cornell University showed that 31% of workers who were recently rehired have lost their jobs for a second time during the pandemic. Another 26% have been told that they might get laid off again.

Seasonally adjusted employment increased by 1.8 million, without seasonal adjustments only 591,000 jobs were added in July!

The number of people working part-time rose by 803,000 to 24 million in total in July. The government defines part-time work as anything under 35 hours per week.

"We added more jobs than most people expected, but the gains really were disproportionately part-time workers," said Kate Bahn, economist and director of labor market policy at the Washington Center for Equitable Growth. "To me that means even if workers are coming back it's to jobs that pay less, and families will be worse off."

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis said states with more Covid cases since June also registered the weakest employment recovery. This was most notably true for Arizona, Florida and Texas.

How ironic that the 3 states with Republican Governors who ignored the Trump Administration's own CDC guidelines in an effort to "LIBERATE" their economics at the behest of this President are the same jurisdictions that registered the weakest employment recovery!

July jobs report 2020: US economy added 1.8 million jobs in July but still down nearly 13 million jobs during the pandemic - CNN

 

[hislegacy]

1,000,000 people filed for unemployment during the same time 1,800,000 jobs were created.

That is why the unemployment rate went DOWN

 

[iluvatar5150]

Not yet mentioned has been the failings of economics as a discipline to recognize until recently the unequal ways in which net economic growth are distributed among the population and the effects those resulting inequalities can have on the rest of society. For too long, economists interpreted aggregate GDP growth was as a positive for the whole of the nation and accepted as a given the ability of workers to retrain for new careers. The reality is that the benefits are often concentrated and the pain inflicted upon those left behind is often insurmountable.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

It is funny how Joe Biden is such a left wing Communist.

My grandparents who were big financial contributors to the Republican Party during the good times, 1960s-1980s, would be quite surprised that the Republicans ran a twice divorces, three times married, adultery committing Democrat as their presidential pick and that the Russian Federation headed by a former KGB Dictator is the Presidents best buddy.

Heck, I don't believe it and I saw it all happen.

 

[disciple Clint]

Funny how Biden's to blame for all the thing that happened under Obama's administration. If he's elected, all of those things will return. Except the good stuff. Like 70 months of sustained economic growth. Nope. In that case, he'll do the exact opposite.

Not very convincing to most voters, if the polling is even remotely accurate. In fact, based on the polling a return to Obama (or any candidate who can speak in complete sentences) is welcomed, not feared.

Obama, the worst economic recovery in history, yes I am certain everyone would welcome that again.

 

[KCfromNC]

Obama, the worst economic recovery in history

Obama is a person, not an economic recovery.

Anyway, facts don't seem to be on the side of your empty assertion here - Trump’s Economic Growth Is Slower Than Obama’s Last 3 Years

 

[disciple Clint]

Obama is a person, not an economic recovery.

Anyway, facts don't seem to be on the side of your empty assertion here - Trump’s Economic Growth Is Slower Than Obama’s Last 3 Years

Funny thing about percentages, if you have a dollar today and get another dollar tomorrow that is a 100% increase and if you get another dollar the next day that is only a 50% increase and if you are still growing at a dollar a day the percentage will continue to decline. numbers are so much fun. Obama Recovery Is Worst In Post WWII History | Investor's Business Daily

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Funny thing about percentages, if you have a dollar today and get another dollar tomorrow that is a 100% increase and if you get another dollar the next day that is only a 50% increase and if you are still growing at a dollar a day the percentage will continue to decline. numbers are so much fun. Obama Recovery Is Worst In Post WWII History | Investor's Business Daily

I'm not sure how an article from 2012 addresses an article that compares Trump's first three years to Obama's last three (aka 2014-2016).

 

[KCfromNC]

Funny thing about percentages, if you have a dollar today and get another dollar tomorrow that is a 100% increase and if you get another dollar the next day that is only a 50% increase and if you are still growing at a dollar a day the percentage will continue to decline.

I'm now curious if you can relate how this comment has anything to do with either my post or the thread in general.

Obama Recovery Is Worst In Post WWII History | Investor's Business Daily

If I had to resort to dredging up an 8 year old opinion piece to try and rationalize my beliefs about a guy who's been out of office for nearly 4 years, I'd reconsider the reason I believed the thing in the first place.

 

[MIDutch]

Considering we are now hearing about “Joe Biden’s ‘radical left’ agenda”, which is ludicrous on its face, the middle has moved, hard right.

Joe Biden is nowhere near the “radical left”.
At best, he’s center-left.

Joe Biden would be center right or moderate right in most European countries. American right wing conservatives really have no concept of what the political spectrum really is and where they fall on it. Hint: EVERYTHING looks like "radical left" when you're a just shy of fascism.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Joe Biden would be center right or moderate right in most European countries. American right wing conservatives really have no concept of what the political spectrum really is and where they fall on it. Hint: EVERYTHING looks like "radical left" when you're a just shy of fascism.

That's hyperbole (I hope)...

The right has been moving left at a steady pace since the 1990's, it's just that the left has been moving left faster.

So the inverse of you're statement would also have to be true. Everything looks like "radical right" to people who are on the far-left.

 

[Hank77]

1,000,000 people filed for unemployment during the same time 1,800,000 jobs were created.

That is why the unemployment rate went DOWN

Jobs 'created' or jobs that were temporarily shut down because of covid?

 

[MIDutch]

That's hyperbole (I hope)...

Have you ever been to Europe? Do you know what their politics are? Do you have any idea of what they think of trump and his politics?

 

[Belk]

That's hyperbole (I hope)...

The right has been moving left at a steady pace since the 1990's, it's just that the left has been moving left faster.

So the inverse of you're statement would also have to be true. Everything looks like "radical right" to people who are on the far-left.

Do you have any studies backing this up? I grew up in a conservative town in the eighties and the current party is further right then I remember them being.

 

[hislegacy]

Have you ever been to Europe?

Yes, three times a year on average.

Do you know what their politics are?

Yes, both the progressives and the conservatives.

Do you have any idea of what they think of trump and his politics?

The progressives hate him and the conservatives like him.

Ask Boris.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do you have any studies backing this up? I grew up in a conservative town in the eighties and the current party is further right then I remember them being.

Sure, I posted them in an earlier post in this thread.

You're more likely to find a republican that's in favor of gay marriage and pot legalization in 2020, than you would be to find a democrat who was in favor of those things in 1995.

Republican support of government-run healthcare has increased by 50% in the last 5-10 years, and republicans are moving toward a more pro-choice position as age demographics change.

What metrics are you using for "left" and "right"?

Apart from the issues I mentioned above, that leaves immigration (which, as I already touched on, many progressive Euro nations actually have stricter requirements than we do), gun laws, and free education...as far as major "hot button" issues are concerned. (and even on the gun control issue, republican support for things like universal background checks has gone from 25% to 36% between 2013 and now)

Are those the only 3 issues that determine "left vs. right"?

With regards to social issues, republicans (in terms of their voter base) have moved a lot in the last 25 years. Perhaps this "no matter how much you move, it's never enough" mentality coming from the far left is what drove so many of them into the welcoming arms of the likes of Trump.

If you think about it, I can see why many would have that sort of backlash reaction. If you have a republican who's reformed their positions on gay marriage, abortion, and healthcare, only to still be equated to Richard Spencer because they happen to still hold a more conservative position on taxation, aren't willing to move quite as far left on guns as the far left would like them to move, and aren't quite ready to move left on certain new issues like Trans issues and a variety of "microaggressions" (even though the democrats weren't ready to move left on those things 10 years ago), you can see why some would "spite vote" in that sort of way.

The right has compromised/conceded more of their positions over the past 10-15 years than the left has, in the name of compromise, and all its gotten them is a bunch of 22 year old college kids accusing them of being fascists and left-leaning media outlets implying that "if you don't vote democrat, you must hate the LGBT community, minorities, and poor people"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Have you ever been to Europe? Do you know what their politics are? Do you have any idea of what they think of trump and his politics?

Yes, I have...

I'm aware of what their politics are.

I don't doubt that, in many ways, US conservative are more conservative than European conservatives...I'm arguing against the notion that they're moving further right. As I've posted twice in this thread, on social issues, republicans have been moving left at a pretty fast pace compared to where they were in 1995.

Which particular issues would you like to discuss?

There is the issue of immigration that I didn't touch on, but I think you'll find that many "progressive" Euro nations have even stricter requirements on that than we do.

They may not have a large following chanting "build the wall", but they certainly have requirements that are stricter than ours.

Many of them require that you live there for an extended period of time prior to being able to receive any benefits, and during that interim, paying an elevated tax rate. You have to be able to complete their citizenship test in their "official language", you can't "marry into" citizenship, etc... and expect to get some dirty looks if you immigrate to their country, and expect to fly your original county's flag in your lawn, front porch, sticker on your car, etc...

Given that republican support for gay marriage has gone from 16% to 49%, support for legalized marijuana has gone from 20% to 51%, support for abortion among the next generation of republicans has moved from 25% to 45%, and support for universal healthcare has gone from 9% to 14% in the last 10 years, is there any evidence that "the right is moving radically more to the right"?

 

[Belk]

Sure, I posted them in an earlier post in this thread.

View attachment 282605

View attachment 282607

You're more likely to find a republican that's in favor of gay marriage and pot legalization in 2020, than you would be to find a democrat who was in favor of those things in 1995.

Republican support of government-run healthcare has increased by 50% in the last 5-10 years, and republicans are moving toward a more pro-choice position as age demographics change.

What metrics are you using for "left" and "right"?

Apart from the issues I mentioned above, that leaves immigration (which, as I already touched on, many progressive Euro nations actually have stricter requirements than we do), gun laws, and free education...as far as major "hot button" issues are concerned. (and even on the gun control issue, republican support for things like universal background checks has gone from 25% to 36% between 2013 and now)

Are those the only 3 issues that determine "left vs. right"?

With regards to social issues, republicans (in terms of their voter base) have moved a lot in the last 25 years. Perhaps this "no matter how much you move, it's never enough" mentality coming from the far left is what drove so many of them into the welcoming arms of the likes of Trump.

If you think about it, I can see why many would have that sort of backlash reaction. If you have a republican who's reformed their positions on gay marriage, abortion, and healthcare, only to still be equated to Richard Spencer because they happen to still hold a more conservative position on taxation, aren't willing to move quite as far left on guns as the far left would like them to move, and aren't quite ready to move left on certain new issues like Trans issues and a variety of "microaggressions" (even though the democrats weren't ready to move left on those things 10 years ago), you can see why some would "spite vote" in that sort of way.

The right has compromised/conceded more of their positions over the past 10-15 years than the left has, in the name of compromise, and all its gotten them is a bunch of 22 year old college kids accusing them of being fascists and left-leaning media outlets implying that "if you don't vote democrat, you must hate the LGBT community, minorities, and poor people"

I don't think that conservative vs liberal can be measured the way you are doing here. If this was the case then today we would consider the rather libertarian founding fathers as arch conservatives since they favored slavery. That people shift positions towards social justice is a known trend. That does not make conservatives suddenly more liberal. I'll see if I can track down any sociology studies on the subject. Thanks for taking the time to explain why you view it this way.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The right has compromised/conceded more of their positions over the past 10-15 years than the left has, in the name of compromise, and all its gotten them is a bunch of 22 year old college kids accusing them of being fascists and left-leaning media outlets implying that "if you don't vote democrat, you must hate the LGBT community, minorities, and poor people"

The reason for those accusations is that, even though the average Republican voter is more favorably inclined to "liberal" social issues, Republican leadership is not. If you personally support LGBT rights but vote for politicians that enact policies designed to oppress the LGBT community because of their positions on taxes and the 2nd Amendment, that sends a message to the members of the LGBT community that they - actual human beings - are less important to you than money and guns. From there, it's reasonable to conclude that maybe you do hate the LGBT community - even if you actually don't.

If you want to get rid of the stigma without moving to the Democratic party, it's on you to work to nominate Republican candidates who share your social views along with your economic views. We see this in the Democratic party with the recent rise of the Justice Democrats, but there doesn't seem to be an equivalent movement within the Republican party.

Overall, the metrics that I would use to point to the Republican Party's march to the right are:
- Increased nationalist sentiments. This includes more restrictive immigration policies, protectionist trade policies, isolationism on the world stage, glorification of the military/police, and general xenophobia
- Outsize influence of religion on party politics. This applies more to the party than to the political right as a whole, but since the 90s, Christianity - especially of the Evangelical variety - has become integral to the Republican platform. This seems to be slowly starting to swing back a bit, but not by much
- Support for regressive economic policy. Trickle-down economics doesn't work as advertised - it's been amply demonstrated under Reagan, Bush, and now Trump. And yet Republicans continue to push it as the solution to all problems