• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    Matthew 24:29-31 is not about something that will happen 14 Days apart but a ONE DAY EVENT that will happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.
     
  2. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    It's close enough for our purposes. We don't really know how much time it will take for the vials to be poured. There could be one vial per day while we are in the air with Jesus and the angels.

    “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

    If the Father's throne is still in Heaven at this point, Heaven's Temple is said to be revealed to the inhabitants of the earth at the 7th trumpet.

    The wicked may have the ability to view, not only the ark of His covenant, but His actual throne in Heaven's Temple.

    "Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.
     
  3. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    I think that you have missed my post #61

    Matthew 24:29-31 is not about something that will happen 14 Days apart but a ONE DAY EVENT that will happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.
     
  4. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    Mathew 24:29-31 is not the end of the story. Those verses might transpire in five minutes. Is that the end of it? What happens next?

    As long as the tribulation of those days, 1260 days, ends just before the "darkened" sun, the language of Scripture will be fulfilled. You are assuming that the sun is "darkened" and moon is turned into blood on the same day. The word "and" could easily contain 14 days. The word: "and", indicates that the "darkened" sun that we are searching for is followed by a blood moon. In some cases the blood moon comes before the solar eclipse, and that is NOT what we are looking for. Celestial mechanics demands it. And those ARE the signs that we actually have existing in the sun and in the moon.

    Look at January 2018. In this case the moon is turned into blood AND the sun is then "darkened". This is an example of what we are NOT looking for.


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    We can have a solar eclipse: (O),

    then 14 days later a blood moon or lunar eclipse; (o), (shall not give her light)

    (then a bunch of days without any eclipse groupings),

    then we bump right into another set of solar and lunar eclipses that are 14 days apart.

    Try counting the days in between:

    (O)14(o) <-------AND-------> (O)14(o),

    you will come up with numbers that look like these:

    (O)14(o) <------------1588------------> (O)14(o)
    (O)14(o) <----------1550----------> (O)14(o)
    (O)14(o) <---------1372---------> (O)14(o)
    (O)14(o) <--------1209--------> (O)14(o)
    (O)14(o) <------1195------> (O)14(o)


    That 1372 day slot in the solar and lunar cycle seems to line up fairly well with numbers written in the book of Daniel 2600 years ago. You can divide them against one another if you don't trust the bar graph.


    <----1260---->
    <-----1290-----> 0.976744186046512
    <------1335------> 0.966292134831461
    <-------1372-------> 0.973032069970845
     
  5. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    Actually I didn't.

    I was just deciding if I would even give an answer to it.

    Is there a time limitation?

    Am I on the clock?
     
  6. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    Good question !!!

    After His Coming mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31,
    Jesus will begin His Millennial Kingdom on the Earth [Revelation 20:4-6] then after the Millennium what is described in Revelation 20:7-15 will happen. Then what is written in Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 will happen.
     
  7. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    I'm sorry amigo, I'm in disagreement.

    The great city is split into three parts, total destruction of all three thirds. You don't have to go Home, but you can't stay here.

    We go to the Father's House for a place that was prepared for us. If it were not true, would He have told us?

    And it's there that we will be brought up to speed and the Pauline judgement will commence.

    See you in the air.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,505
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    This thread has been hi-jacked by those who seem to enjoy shuffling Revelation to suit their peculiar notions of the end times.
    The simple fact is that the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath is the next prophesied event we can expect. We should be aware of it and prepared for it, as we are told to be. Isaiah 26:11-21

    Be sure; that very soon the world will be a different place and we Christians will have a very important role to play, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.
     
  9. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    Do you notice that there is no mention of Jesus returning back to Heaven after His Coming >>>Read Matthew 24:29-31 carefully.

    You have probably missed the part where JESUS said that He will come AFTER THE TRIBULATION NOT BEFORE.

    29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,516
    Christian
    Married
    When a police officer interviews two witnesses that saw the same automobile crash, he will focus on the similarities between the two accounts, instead of the minor differences in language being used to describe the very same event.

    The same is true in this case.

    .
     
  11. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    -Well, the witness in Matthew 24:29-31 is Jesus Himself....

    -Jesus is also the ONE who have showed the VISION of the events of the 6Th Seal to John In Revelation 6:12-17.

    Are you doubting that what is reported came from the same witness who is Jesus ?
     
  12. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    I go there to prepare a place for you

    I will come again and will take you to myself,

    that where I am you may be also.

    "In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
    This HAS to fit somewhere. There's only one place.

    Because Heaven must receive Him until the time comes to restore ALL THINGS.

    "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
    "All things" are not going to be restored until after the thousand years are finished in Revelation 21.

    "And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
    So the next time we meet Jesus is another visitation. He won't touch down on the mount of Olives until after the thousand years are finished.

    That's why we have to meet the Lord in the air. This place needs to cool off for a thousand years before the Father's House can land on it.

    You'll see,
    I told you so.
    :)
     
  13. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    -I will come again and will take you to myself,that where I am you may be also.-
    Jesus will be on the Earth for His Millennial Kingdom [Revelation 20:4-6.]

    So you are saying that you are not interested to be on the Earth with Jesus during His Millennium Reign...is that right ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  14. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    When we come back after the thousand years are finished, the wicked are brought back to life and march across the "broad plain" of the earth.

    "And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

    They come against us while we are inside the Beloved City. But ask yourself this, how did the earth become a "broad plain"? Every mountain and island moved out of it's place? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down?

    My understanding of the great city being split into three parts is complete destruction.

    Sorry Amigo, you don't have to go Home, but you can't stay here.

    For He has prepared for us a City.

    "For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
    .
     
  15. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    THE MILLENNIUM REIGN OF JESUS WILL BE ON THE EARTH NOT IN HEAVEN... ..
    Revelation 20:4-6
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
     
  16. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    None of this tells me that the thousand years is on earth.

    What you guys are doing here is mixing up the OT eschatology with the Daniel Revelation story. There were two possible scenarios that hinged on the behavior of 1st century Israel. The Jews might have accepted their Messiah. There might not have been a second coming. This is the reason for the mysterious language of Daniel 9. Isaac Newton figured it out.

    The 1st century Jews were given 70 weeks to, among other things, seal both the vision and the prophet. During the Babylonian exile God had three prophets in operation at the same time: Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. But these three prophets were being given two different end time schematics. Though technically Daniel is an OT book, it really is a sealed relative to Revelation's story and doesn't mix well with the OT end time scenario. With the exception of Daniel, is there any OT mention of a second coming?

    The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the 1st century. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

    Then, after some time, Lucifer in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

    But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His second visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog.

    Does this describe how the crucifixion occurred?:

    Him Whom They Have Pierced

    “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.​

    Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed in the Temple if humanity had not turned Him over to the adversary?

    It's looking to me like everything that has taken place in the world since 1535 has been so that Israel would become a nation again in 1948. The Ottoman empire, WW1, WW2, 1948 and all the trees. But the one and the only reason for all this to happen was so that Israel could capture Jerusalem and then in 1969 create a reason for the Knesset to make an official decree to "restore and rebuild Jerusalem".


    This was written 2600 years ago and at that time there may not have been a second coming required. The Jews might have cooperated and accepted their Messiah in the first century. Jesus would have come one time only and never ascended back to heaven, making a second coming unnecessary. Daniel 9 had to be written in such a way to include both the primary visitation of Jesus AND the possibility of a secondary visitation in a compact and simultaneous fashion.

    "Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,

    [there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

    Primary Visitation [and] Secondary Visitation
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,516
    Christian
    Married
    Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 

    Not based on the verse above or the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53.

    .
     
  18. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +568
    Christian
    I'm not saying that Jesus would not have died for our sins. That is not what I'm saying. The Servant would have suffered. I'm saying that if the Jews had accepted their Messiah, it would have been different. The Lamb would have been pierced in the Temple by the priests, and after His resurrection He would have remained on earth and began the Kingdom of God right at that time.

    John the Baptist would not have died. King David would have been resurrected to rule Israel. All of the OT end time prophecies that have caused confusion among the dispensationals and amils would have commenced in the 1st century.

    Revelation would not have been written, there would not have been an end time Antichrist, Daniel would remain sealed forever and there would only be one Gog Magog that would be history by now.

    If the 1st century Jews would have accepted their Messiah, they would have mourned for the One that they had pierced as one would mourn for an only child. And they would have wept bitterly over Him on that day as one would weep over a first born son.

    But that did not happen.

    Him Whom They Have Pierced

    “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,505
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The Lords fiery judgement on the Middle East:
    Isaiah 29:1-2 Woe to you Ariel! Ariel, the city where David settled. The years roll on and you carry out your festivals. Yet, I shall reduce Ariel to dire straits. There will be suffering and sorrow, when I make her My fire altar.
    Ariel – is a pun on the Hebrew word, ‘har’el’ = the Temple burnt offering altar. In this prophecy, it refers to Jerusalem and all the State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14

    Isaiah 29:3-4 I will encompass you and besiege you with the visitation of My fiery judgement. You will be brought low, you will hide underground, your voice will whisper out of the earth.
    The survivors in Jerusalem will shelter in underground bunkers. Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 37:31-32
    The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse, Deuteronomy 32:22,34-35,41-43, will be an explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17
    Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm! For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming. As the sun rises, a vast host will appear, the like has never been known. It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

    Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3

    The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect, it is the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17 It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog or of Armageddon, both to come later, respectively.
    Psalm 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18,

    The regeneration of the Middle East: Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15
    Isaiah 29:17-21 In a very short time, the Land will be made prosperous again. On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see and the lowly and poor will exult in the Holy One of Israel. The ruthless and evil peoples will be gone, all who practise falsehood will be cut down. Isaiah 66:12-17, Psalms 107:1-43, Jeremiah 33:12-13

    Isaiah 29:22-23 Therefore, these are the words of the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, about the House of Jacob: [now: every true Christian believer] This is no time for you to be ashamed, no time to be frightened, for his descendants will praise My Name, when they see what I have done for them. They will stand in awe of the Holy God of Israel. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses condensed.

    Christian Israelites, all those whose names are written in the Book, Malachi 3:16-18, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in, will be gathered into the Land, ”in a very short time” after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations Ezekiel 20: 34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 30:18-24
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,516
    Christian
    Married
    No doubt in my mind.

    .
     
Loading...