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THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jul 29, 2018.

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  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Loren nice to see you again. Did you get a chance to read an earlier post sent you about your questions asking for scripture on the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and God's LAW (10 Commandments)? If you missed it here it is in post # 240 linked for ease of access. Hope it was helpful.

    As to your question above? I would answer yes as much as I am aware of although as I am growing in God's Grace day by day I learn more and more. But this is how I understand it so far. Using Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 as our guide. No one can obey any of God's LAW unless we have been given a new heart to LOVE because it is only through LOVE that we can OBEY and FOLLOW Jesus. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLOW God's WORD. We follow Jesus not because we are saved by doing so but only because we LOVE him (John 14:15)

    HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

    WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

    EXODUS 20:8-11
    [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
    [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
    [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
    [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

    v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (our Saturday)

    WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

    GENESIS 1:4-5
    [4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    [5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

    ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

    EXODUS 16:22-23
    [22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
    [23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

    MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

    The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

    IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

    MATTHEW 12:5-12
    [5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
    [6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
    [7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
    [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
    [9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
    [10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
    [11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
    [12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

    MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

    It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

    WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

    1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
    2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
    3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
    4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
    5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

    Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

    WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

    WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

    .............

    There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's LAWs including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of GOd's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Rom 13:8-10)

    This is my understanding from God's WORD. I am learning everyday however from God's WORD.

    Hope it is helpful and may God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi BNR32FAN, that statement has no truth in it. Where does it say in Romans 14 that it is talking God's Sabbath?. There is not one scripture in Romans 14 that says it is talking about God's Sabbath. You have to read that into the Chapter to come up with that intepretation. There is not one scripture in Romans 14 that mentioned the Sabbath and God's 4th Commandment. Please look at the chapter and ask yourself are you reading into scripture something that is NOT there?

    The topic of ROMANS 14 is FOOD and eating and not eating (Fasting) in relation to days and that some people esteem eating and fasting connected to days over others and do so to the Lord. Now that is what the scripture says v5-6

    Ok please provide scripture for everything you have claimed in Romans 14. There is not a single scripture in ROMANS 14 that is discussing God's 4th Commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH or giving permission for anyone to break it. You are reading into the scripture something they are not saying to come up with your interpretation. If you beleive this is not true provide the scriptures to prove ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th Commandment Sabbath.

    The chapter is discussing food and fasting connected to DAYS and days that men esteem above others in relation to food and fasting and judging others. The chapter does not even mention God's 4th Commandment or does it say that God's Sabbath has been ABOLISHED and we are now free to worship God on any day of the week.

    Posted a little on this earlier in post # 195 linked. There is not a single scripture referring to Gods' 4th Commandment Sabbath and it is never mentioned in the whole chapter. So your second claim above is not true. Disagree with what I have posted here? Prove it then with scripture. Simply saying you disagree does not change the fact ROMANS 14 does not even mention the Sabbath or is it s command to break it.

    Prove the Sabbath is the topic of discussion. You haven't because it is not the topic of discussion food and fasting is. The Sabbath is not even mentioned in the whole chapter.

    That really does not make much sense. The purpose of God's LAW is that it is followed from the heart through LOVE. Breaking it is sin (ROMANS 7:7. James 2:11; 1 John 3:4).

    In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

    Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

    Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

    Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

    Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

    GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

    Exodus 20
    8,
    Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
    9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
    10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
    11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about.

    God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10 that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is if broken (Romans 3:20; 7:7).

    These are all a part of the Annual Jewish Festivals and SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC Book of the Covenant pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation and are referenced in COL 2:16 "SHADOWS of things to come under the NEW COVENANT. This is all discussed in detail scripture linking the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures

    SHADOW LAWS FROM THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT LINKED CLICK ME

    Now please disagree? Show your scriptures as to why you disagree. If you cannot then we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello BNR32FAN, I am curious why you think your post is not answered and why you think you have answered the questions provided to you earlier from post #246 linked?

    This linked post above went through everyone of your scriptures and questions providing detailed scripture then asked you questions to provide scripture for your belief which you have not answered.

    You simply chose to ignore this post and the scriptures provided in them. The post also went through ROMANS 14 showing that it is not even talking about God's Sabbath and provided a 6x part OP (SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE LINKED CLICK ME) showing scripture from the OLD and NEW Testament that COL 2:16 is talking about the Shadow laws from MOSOIC BOOK of the Covenant that include the annual Sabbath not the 10 Commandments.

    These were special ANNUAL Sabbath that were connected to annual Jewish festivals that could fall on any day of the week. These were not God's 4th Commandment and SEVENTH DAY Sabbath.

    The SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT is the topic of COL 2 not the 10 Commandments. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here. Seems you have simply chosen to ignore it. It is ok it is your choice but do not say your questions have been answered when I have provided scripture answering each one of your questions in detail and do not say you have answered the questions in post #246 linked with scripture when you have provided none.

    In the days of Jesus, Paul and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT was the BIBLE. So please be patient. Let's look at what Paul is referring to in COL 2:11-17 linking this NEW TESTAMENT scripture to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures that Paul is writing about.

    COL 2:11-17 scripture topic summary...

    v11 Shadows of CIRCUMCISION pointing to the new
    v12 Shadows of BAPTISM pointing to the new
    v13 Shadows of CIRCUMCISION AND BAPTISM pointing to the new

    v14 GREEK meaning; blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ORDINANCES which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross. The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL law: - decree; The Greek meaning of handwriting of ORDINANCES in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

    The handwriting of ORDINANCES {Mosaic laws for meat and drink offerings and annual festivals that have their fulfilment in Jesus} have been blotted out. They were the shadows. They were all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28)

    v15 Victory through the fulfullment of these Shadow laws in Christs death and resurrection

    NOW LET'S LOOK AT THE OLD TESTAMENT REFERNECES PAUL is referring to in COL 2:16

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in (1) MEAT, or in (2) DRINK, or in respect of an (3) HOLYDAY [GREEK is FESTIVAL or FEAST DAY], or of the (4) NEW MOON, or of the (5) SABBATH DAYS:

    It is the FEAST SABBATH that PAUL is referring to in COL 2:16. Let's look at the OLD Testament references that PAUL is referring to...

    .............

    REFERENCES OF COL 2:16 FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE PAUL is referring to...

    EZEKIEL 45:17-21, [17] It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) BURNT OFFERINGS, GRAIN OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, at the (2) FEASTS, (3) THE NEW MOONS, and the (4) SABBATHS , at all the appointed (2) FEASTS of the house of Israel:

    1 CHRONICLES 23:31 and whenever (1) BURNT OFFERINGS, were presented to the LORD on the (4) SABBATHS, at the (3) THE NEW MOONS, (2) FEASTS, and at the appoined FESTIVALS. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

    2 CHRONICLES 2:4 [4] Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making (1) BURNT OFFERINGS, every morning and evening and on the (4) SABBATHS, at the (3) THE NEW MOONS, and at the appointed (2) FESTIVALS of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) YEARLY FESTIVALS, her (3) NEW MOONS, her (4) SABBATHS and all her (2) APPOINTED FESTIVALS.

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, her FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all her SOLEMN FEASTS.

    Every scripture is nearly WORD for WORD from COL 2:16. All are referring to the ANNUAL Jewish festivals; All these (3) ANNUAL FESTIVALS are SHADOW law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that point to Christ and God's plan of Salvation and include (1-2) The MEAT and DRINK offerings for sin, (3) HOLY DAYS (FESTIVALS) The (4) NEW MOONS which were used to time the starting of the different FESTIVALS, and the (5) ANNUAL "SPECIAL" SABBATHS (Not God's SEVENTH day Sabbath) that were connected to Feast days that could fall on ANY DAY of the week and had a different purpose to that of God's 4th Commandment.

    SHADOW SABBATH of the ANNUAL FEAST DAYS

    There were three of these besides the other feast days of "Holy Convocation" The "Special" annual Sabbath (Not God's SEVENTH day Sabbath) could fall on any day that the three annual festivals started. These festivals included; 1. The Feast of Trumpets (Leviticus 23:24); 2. The Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32) and 3. Feast of Tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39-43)

    The old covenant SHADOW laws (MOSAIC ordinances for remission of sin) were to pass away, not God's 10 Commandments

    ............

    HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow pointing to Jesus

    HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

    It is the SHADOW laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT not the 10 Commandments that are being referred to in COL 2.

    .............

    CONCLUSION: The topic of discussion in Colossians 2:11-17 is the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSIAC book of the COVENANT which include the annual SHADOW SABBATH connected to FESTIVALS of the OLD TESTAMENT not God's 10 Commandments of God's 4th Commandment Sabbath.

    MORE SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE LINKED CLICK ME

    Now the above proves that COL 2:16 is not a reference to God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments and the linked section above provides more supporting scripture to further prove that COL 2:16 is not a reference to God's seventh day Sabbath which God says is an EVERLASTING, ETERNAL Covenant.

    You say that COL 2:16 is a reference that God's 4th Commandment is a Shadow?
    Please prove that COL 2:16 is saying that God's 4th Commandment is a Shadow.

    Now please prove your claim that God's 4th Commandment is a SHADOW through scripture and the above is not true. If you cannot simply saying you disagree is only putting your own words above God's WORD when only God's WORD is true (Romans 3:4).

    Hope this helps..
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  4. Loren T.

    Loren T. Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks for answering. I've experienced the blessing that a day of rest brings, so I do believe in keeping the spirit of the law of Sabbath, although we also do not take any of the Old Covenant regulations as binding.
    As long as someone doesn't claim that their keeping of this day or that is essential for salvation, I say let them be convinced in their own minds of what is right.
    Shalom...
     
  5. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Okay, sure, here you go. Here is all the scripture you need to understand everything should you decide to study beyond lists of cherry-picked verses with word "sabbath" in them.

    The Holy Bible - NASB

    These passages of scripture will hopefully make everything clear to you once you expand your reading beyond sabbaths and commandments and laws, and thus better get to know God's character and the deep love he has for his creation, but if not, you could go to the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for his help and clarity in better understanding his message.
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    You are a funny one bekkilyn, :).

    I have my own bibles but thankyou anyway. I guess that means you have no scripture to share in relation to the scriptures provided in posts shared with you and the op here right?
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Loren, thanks for your kind reply.

    None are saved by keeping God's LAW. We are all only saved by God's GRACE through faith and not of ourselves; it is a GIFT of God and not of works lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8). Keep in mind though the GRACE that God has given us is for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH (Romans 1:5) the same as God's FAITH does not make God's LAW void, God's LAW (10 Commandments) are to be ESTABLISHED by Faith (Romans 3:31).

    God's LAW gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) and leads us to Christ so that we might be justified by FAITH (Forgiven). Without God's LAW we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is. If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is then we have no need of a Saviour as we do not know that we are Sinners. If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation and if we have no salvation we are lost because we are still in our sins.

    God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is one of the 10 Commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is if broken.

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    God knows that many break this commandment out of ignorance as they have been taught to do so from an early age. In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

    For me I BELIEVE God's people are in ALL Churches living up to all the KNOWLEDGE God has revealed to them. If we are living up to all the KNOWLEDGE God has revealed to us then we are God's people. It is only when we reject God's WORD and continue in SIN when Jesus is calling us to have a closer walk with him that we turn away from God.

    God is calling his people to come out from following man made traditions to whorship him in Spirit and in truth. God's sheep will hear his voice (the WORD of God) calling them and they will follow him.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. :wave:
     
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 2:11-15
    11 For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God’s except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. 13 And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.

    14 Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 Those who are spiritual discern all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else’s scrutiny.

    16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord
    so as to instruct him?”

    But we have the mind of Christ.
     
  9. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    So why do you believe it is so crucial to keep a seventh day sabbath if one is saved without it? After all, we have this other person on here insisting, "Join us or you are the ENEMY!" (Not quite sure what the "us" is the person is referring to, but that's beside the point.) Why must people be enemies over something that is not required for salvation?
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is from SIN not in SIN (1 John 1:9; 1 John 3:3-9). Those who continue in SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM because they have rejected the GIFT of salvation from God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

    I am sorry about the other guy I am sure he means well as I believe both you and everyone else here does. I do not consider you or anyone here my enemy but only my brothers and sisters in Christ.

    EPHESIANS 6:12 [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Jesus died that all might live and LOVES all and is calling all to LOVE through his GIFT of salvation to have a closer walk with him through his Word by FAITH. We are to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
  11. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Yes thank you it actually did. Pyong Ping pointed that out to me earlier today. I was unaware that Jesus is considered the Passover sacrifice for us. I hadn’t made that connection because in the OT the Passover sacrifice was not a sin offering.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I must concede the scriptures you have shown do explain Colossians 2:16. As for Romans 14 I’m still unconvinced. There is still the matter of the church which began to observe Sunday worship around 200AD. That early in the church’s history the teachings seem to be in line with the apostle’s teachings. If what you say is true then all of Christianity had it wrong until the 19th century. I find that very hard to believe.
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Thanks brother BNR32FAN, its nice to share God's Word together with you. Understanding God's WORD only comes by seeking Jesus to be our guide and teacher. His promise to all of us is that he will be our guide and teacher if we prayerfully seek him and ask him what his truth is.

    Many do not know that God wants to be our teacher and it is part of the NEW COVENANT promise (Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; 16:13; 7:17; 8:32).

    Jesus is calling us away from listening to others to understand his Word. He wants to be our teacher and guide and promises to teach us if we ask him and seek him for his truth through his Word. I believe you are a good person and Jesus is calling you.

    May God bless you brother BNR32FAN as you seek him through his Word asking that he guide and teach you. Nice talking with you :wave:
     
  14. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    That's a contradiction, because then they would need to earn their salvation by their human efforts of not sinning, and therefore it would no longer be grace through faith alone.

    You can't require observation of a seventh day sabbath (or any other law) for salvation and also claim salvation by grace through faith alone. To require human effort to earn salvation is a rejection of the gift of grace.

    Now if one wishes to observe a time of sabbath, or spend a lengthy amount of time in prayer, or study scriptures, or do something to help the poor and other similar things as a *response* in thanks for the gift that was given, then we open ourselves to the Holy Spirit transforming us into becoming more and more like Christ, which leads to more growth and maturity in our faith.

    It is a "law" written into our hearts rather than the same strict ceremonial observation that was required of the Israelites as a part of the Sinai covenant. "Not with your ancestors did I make this covenant, but to all of us here alive today."

    It's a heart thing, a Spirit thing, not a law thing.

    One body, many members. Different gifts of the Spirit.
     
  15. Pyong Ping

    Pyong Ping Member

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    I never said that the Passover was the "sin offering". I said "the Lord's goat" was. Read again:

    Please read more carefully.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, there is no contradiction. This is where you need to BELIEVE the WORD of God. No one can stop sinning by human effort without God to save you. We are all sinners and this is all we can do without Jesus to save us from sin and why we need a Savior and the great Physician (Jeremiah 13:23; Romans 13:10; Romans 7).

    ROMANS 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Your must be Born again...

    JOHN 3:3-7 [3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.

    New Covenant promise of a new heart...

    EZEKIEL 36:24-27 [24], For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. [25], Then will I sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26], A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27], And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    We need to be Born again (new Heart) because we commit sin..

    1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    JOHN 8:34-36 [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

    Being Born again...

    1 JOHN 3:3-9
    [3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
    [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    [5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    [6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
    [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

    The Gospel is the POWER of God unto salvation to all those who BELIEVE God's WORD. This is the good news of Salvation.

    MATTHEW 9:12-13 [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.[13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    and is why Paul teaches...

    1 TIMOTHY 1:15 [15], This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    Jesus came to save sinners because they cannot save themselves. This is what salvation is and what God's LAW teaches us. WE are the CHIEFEST of SINNERS. Christ has come to save us. FAITH in God's WORD gives all those who BELIEVE the victory.

    1 JOHN 5:4 [4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

    Hope this help. May God bless you as you seek him by FAITH through his WORD.:wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  17. Pyong Ping

    Pyong Ping Member

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    Not "the church", but some individual congregations.

    How?

    Why? the real "church" (the woman of Revelation 12) went into the wilderness for a long time (1,260; Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24), before coming out of that wilderness.

    Paul warned of the apostasy:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    John warned:

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
     
  18. Pyong Ping

    Pyong Ping Member

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    John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Again, God's word judges.

    You practice "iniquity", by your rejection of the 4th commandment in its specific words (Exodus 20:8-11) and you are presently teaching others to do the same.
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Pyong Ping,

    I like some of your posts and scriptures and enjoy reading them. Keep in mind however, God only holds someone accountable to sin when they know it is sin. Many break God's 4th Commandment out of ignorance and if this is the case and these people are living up to all the KNOWLEDGE God has given them then God does not hold them accountable until they have time to hear or read and understand God's WORD.

    ACTS 17:30-31 [30], And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now [when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth is come] commands all men every where to repent:[31], Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

    God's people are in every church living up to all the KNOWLEDGE God has given them. We should treat all as our brothers and sisters for whom Christ died as we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and the rulers of darkness in high places.

    Thanks for sharing, may God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

    I have to go for now take care :wave:
     
  20. Pyong Ping

    Pyong Ping Member

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    You said:

    You did not show me anything from scripture about not "carry[ing] a pencil from one room to the next on Sabbath".

    You simply eisegeted what you wanted, to defend your incorrect apriori. You added to God's word that which it does not say. You changed the definition.

    The real "burden" is "sin" (1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:2 (out of the house of bondage)). See below*

    Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

    Our "Jerusalem" is not presently on earth, it is above:

    Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. above:

    *
    Exodus 33:14 KJB - And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

    Matthew 11:28 KJB - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    Matthew 11:29 KJB - Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    Matthew 11:30 KJB - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
    Is there not the song, Would you be free from the Burden of Sin [1 John 3:4]?

    This was why there was to be no Burdens borne upon the 7th Day Sabbath day of God, for the Day is the Sign of freedom from the burden of Sin! All who do not forsake their sins, shall never enter New Jerusalem, our heavenly home above:

    Nehemiah 13:19 KJB - And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

    Jeremiah 17:21 KJB - Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;​

    There are two yokes,

    [1] the Yoke of Jesus Christ, and His ways, or

    [2] the yoke of the devil, and his.

    Those which laboured, laboured under the burden, the "laden" of several things,

    [1] Sin -

    Isaiah 1:4 KJB - Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

    Psalms 33:8 KJB - There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.

    Psalms 38:4 KJB - For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

    Isaiah 58:6 KJB - Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

    Acts 8:23 KJB - For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

    John 8:31 KJB - Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    John 8:32 KJB - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    John 8:33 KJB - They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

    John 8:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    ...and because of their iniquities, corrupt men came in and ladened even further with false practices and ways to overcome sin, rules, regulations of worthlessness, which further nullified the commandments of God.
    [2] Pharisaical, Lawyers, etc rules of works, traditions which negated the Law of God, and the Salvation of God, separating them from the pure and simple faith of Scripture -

    Matthew 23:4 KJB - For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

    Luke 11:46 KJB - And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.​
     
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