The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[corinth77777]

lol well...if you are lost you know if you have a smart phone....you can use the free navigation system....smile..."my sinless state" are u a prophet of the future?..and if you are you are welcome....but surely all glory goes to God...

If you are a follower of Christ....and you don't understand a post wouldnt it be better to ask the meaning instead of provoking someone with sarcasm?...mmmm

I'll pretend to be a follower..."what do you mean corinth"...well the post my brother is on Eternal security...and This passage seems to nail a head...you either have Christ and are born again through faith...or you don't have faith and are not born again- yet....yet-hoping you will be.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

There is sin within the body and sin apart from the body....and I believe when you accept Christ...that one cannot continually sin....however since by definition anything that is not of faith is sin....then anyone who remains out of the body of Christ is a continual sinner...at least that's my first interpretation.

 

[Foghorn]

I will explain it again. Christ died for all sin, which removed the sin barrier that separated God from humanity.

If Christ died for all the sins of Adam's posterity then no one could be held accountable for their sins, all would be saved and all would go to heaven.

Unless you think Christ's sacrifice wasn't good enough?

 

[Foghorn]

How does one get the knowledge of salvation? It's plainly written in Luke. If one has no knowledge of salvation, how will he obtain it?

Here is the answer from Jesus Himself, Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3

 

[EmSw]

Here is the answer from Jesus Himself, Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3

Luke 1 says this -

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

It is the remission of sins by which we are given knowledge of salvation, and through the tender mercy of God.

And we know the remission of sins come by our repentance. John the Baptist, Jesus, and Peter all confirm this.

Mark 1:4
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3
And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins,

Luke 24:47
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

It is man's repentance for the remission of sins that he is given a knowledge of salvation, and this through the tender mercy of God.

We know remission means the following:

1. release from bondage or imprisonment
   
   
2. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
   

When a person repents, and is forgiven his sins, that is, released from bondage, pardoned of his sins, and remitted of the penalty, then he knows what salvation is. He is no longer a prisoner to sin, he is pardoned of his sins, and he no longer is under the penalty of sin. This is true salvation, through the tender mercy of God.

 

[corinth77777]

Salvation means delivernce

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Salvation means delivernce

The word has more than one meaning.

 

[corinth77777]

What part does regeneration and comforming to the image of Christ play in salvation if one believes "justification is all there is to salvation"?

Is salvation an ongoing event...?

If i said "once delivered always delivered"...then what part do I play in being delivered if any? Faith?

And what are some scriptures that deal with our everyday deliverences?

Can "by grace are you saved through faith"...be a scripture that can be applied as we walk through everyday circumstances?

If we must continually have faith then does one believe
Justification can be all there is to salvation? Our walk is evidence of our faith right? Is affirmation of savation the fruit?
Once delivered is always delivered from what?
Have you ever experienced hell on earth?
A seperation from God because of your sins?
If you did were you delivered at that present time as you were going through hell.
Just something to think about..because the word once means once.....and eternal means non stop?

So if a man is delivered once fom guilt and shame etc then why does he continually need to repent of his sins?

So when we say once saved always saved.....are we just speaking of what happens after we die?

If so then where does regeneration fit in?

 

[BoyStan]

New creations implies they are a changed and new person that is not like the old person. In fact, Paul tells us to put on the new man. This implies that not everyone stuck to their new man or new nature when they began their faith by repenting of their sins and accepting Christ. This means a person has free will to follow God or not follow God even after regeneration. Being once regenerated does not mean you are forever saved. Adam and Eve did not need a regeneration. They did not need one because they were created without sin. Yet they were able to fall into sin and out of fellowship with God. God is not a respecter of persons. He is not going to let believers today get away with sin when He did't let Adam and Eve get away with sin.

...

I disagree strongly. This quote trashes God's glory!

 

[-57]

What part does regeneration and comforming to the image of Christ play in salvation if one believes "justification is all there is to salvation"?

-57 Regeneration alows us to conform to Christ

Is salvation an ongoing event...?

-57 No. Sanctification is.

If i said "once delivered always delivered"...then what part do I play in being delivered if any? Faith?

-57 None. Even faith is a gift from God.

And what are some scriptures that deal with our everyday deliverences?

-57 Now were talking about another type of deliverance. Instead of a deliverence from an eternal seperation from God in the lake of fire....we can ask to be delivered from the evil one...Lords prayer style.

Can "by grace are you saved through faith"...be a scripture that can be applied as we walk through everyday circumstances?

-57 That verse seems to be about salvation....knowing who we are in our salvation can help us walk through everyday circumstances

If we must continually have faith then does one believe
Justification can be all there is to salvation?

-57 There is also bearing fruit? Right?

Our walk is evidence of our faith right? Is affirmation of savation the fruit?

-57 That's one affirmation.

Once delivered is always delivered from what?

-57 Gods wrath (judgement)

Have you ever experienced hell on earth?

-57 No.

A seperation from God because of your sins?

-57 Gods sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

If you did were you delivered at that present time as you were going through hell.
Just something to think about..because the word once means once.....and eternal means non stop?

So if a man is delivered once fom guilt and shame etc then why does he continually need to repent of his sins?

-57 Because we still sin.

So when we say once saved always saved.....are we just speaking of what happens after we die?

-57 Yes

If so then where does regeneration fit in?

-57 Regeneration is being born again.
[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

If Christ died for all the sins of Adam's posterity then no one could be held accountable for their sins, all would be saved and all would go to heaven.

Jesus died for all sins so that God's justice was satisfied and free to treat the human race in grace. Sins MUST be judged, period. That is why Jesus died for all sin.

And, no one goes to hell for sins. Why do I say that? Just read about the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 2011-15. What puts people in the lake of fire is that they do not have eternal life. What's what they are judged on.

Unless you think Christ's sacrifice wasn't good enough?

His sacrifice was absolutely perfect for the entire human race. So that He is rightly called the "Savior of the WORLD" per Jn 4:42.

And why John the baptist described Him as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the WORLD".

I'm sure you will always see "elect" when you read the words "world". But that cannot be supported from Scripture. Considering that the word "world" is used in CONTRAST to believers throughout John's gospel.

 

[corinth77777]

What part does regeneration and comforming to the image of Christ play in salvation if one believes "justification is all there is to salvation"?

-57 Regeneration alows us to conform to Christ

Is salvation an ongoing event...?

-57 No. Sanctification is.

If i said "once delivered always delivered"...then what part do I play in being delivered if any? Faith?

-57 None. Even faith is a gift from God.

And what are some scriptures that deal with our everyday deliverences?

-57 Now were talking about another type of deliverance. Instead of a deliverence from an eternal seperation from God in the lake of fire....we can ask to be delivered from the evil one...Lords prayer style.

Can "by grace are you saved through faith"...be a scripture that can be applied as we walk through everyday circumstances?

-57 That verse seems to be about salvation....knowing who we are in our salvation can help us walk through everyday circumstances

If we must continually have faith then does one believe
Justification can be all there is to salvation?

-57 There is also bearing fruit? Right?

Our walk is evidence of our faith right? Is affirmation of savation the fruit?

-57 That's one affirmation.

Once delivered is always delivered from what?

-57 Gods wrath (judgement)

Have you ever experienced hell on earth?

-57 No.

A seperation from God because of your sins?

-57 Gods sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

If you did were you delivered at that present time as you were going through hell.
Just something to think about..because the word once means once.....and eternal means non stop?

So if a man is delivered once fom guilt and shame etc then why does he continually need to repent of his sins?

-57 Because we still sin.

So when we say once saved always saved.....are we just speaking of what happens after we die?

-57 Yes

If so then where does regeneration fit in?

-57 Regeneration is being born again.

[/QUOTE]
Check out this site I was reading and see if these scriptures do not change your mind. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

 

[-57]

Check out this site I was reading and see if these scriptures do not change your mind. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm[/QUOTE]

What particular verse did you have in mind?

Regeneration is another word for being born again. Unless one is regenerated or born again..they can't conform to Christ.

 

[Foghorn]

Jesus died for all sins so that God's justice was satisfied and free to treat the human race in grace. Sins MUST be judged, period. That is why Jesus died for all sin.

God says He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
Christs sacrifice was a propitiatory sacrifice which appeased God's anger towards the elect. Those for whom Christ died in place of will be saved. Those who were not included in the atonement, will not be saved.

Jesus does not even pray for all of Adam's posterity but only for the elect. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; John 17:9.

And, no one goes to hell for sins. Why do I say that? Just read about the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 2011-15. What puts people in the lake of fire is that they do not have eternal life. What's what they are judged on.

Are you suggesting unbelief is not a sin?

His sacrifice was absolutely perfect for the entire human race.

If that is what it was meant for, then absolutely.

So that He is rightly called the "Savior of the WORLD" per Jn 4:42

Yes, for every tribe tongue and nation which the elect are scattered, not just the Jews.

And why John the baptist described Him as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the WORLD".

Because He does. And if He did (and He did) then all those whose sins are taken away shall be saved.

I'm sure you will always see "elect" when you read the words "world".

Just as you do, but you don't accept it.

But that cannot be supported from Scripture.

It absolutely is.

Considering that the word "world" is used in CONTRAST to believers throughout John's gospel.

Perhaps you should reconsider and read it again?

 

[Foghorn]

Regeneration is another word for being born again. Unless one is regenerated or born again..they can't conform to Christ.

No,....Unless one is born again (regenerated) he cannot see the kingdom of God. And you know about the natural man, he cannot appraise the things of the spirit, they are foolishness to him.

 

[-57]

No,....Unless one is born again (regenerated) he cannot see the kingdom of God. And you know about the natural man, he cannot appraise the things of the spirit, they are foolishness to him.

Regeneration is the beginning...Step one that God does for us....true, you can't see the kingdom. Once one is regenerated they are no longer considered a "natural" man....and now have the ability to conform to Christ.

 

[Foghorn]

Regeneration is the beginning...Step one that God does for us

Yes, regeneration is God's act. Not based on anything we do, but by His choice. Unconditional election.

....true, you can't see the kingdom.

Until regeneration.

Once one is regenerated they are no longer considered a "natural" man....and now have the ability to conform to Christ.

One after regeneration, is being conformed to Christ.

I think we may agree?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I disagree strongly. This quote trashes God's glory!

So God not allowing believers to sin and still be saved trashes God's glory? Then why does God's Word say without holiness no man shall see the Lord?

...

 

[-57]

Yes, regeneration is God's act. Not based on anything we do, but by His choice. Unconditional election.

Until regeneration. One after regeneration, is being conformed to Christ.

I think we may agree?

Agree....well, yes.

 

[Extraneous]

All i know is this-

If we are perfect then why does paul say this (see scripture below)? Perhaps it could be argued that the context here is not about sins. I dont know but still, what should we do if we sin? Do we give up or do we keep hoping in Christ and keep doing what is right, as much as is possible for us? What else can we do? We sure cant give up can we? Furthermore, is anyone here actually perfect?


Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Following Paul’s Example
15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

17 Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. 18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

 

[sdowney717]

All i know is this-

If we are perfect then why does paul say this (see scripture below)? Perhaps it could be argued that the context here is not about sins. I dont know but still, what should we do if we sin? Do we give up or do we keep hoping in Christ and keep doing what is right, as much as is possible for us? What else can we do? We sure cant give up can we? Furthermore, is anyone here actually perfect?


Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Following Paul’s Example
15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

17 Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. 18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

One of our aims is to always try to do what is pleasing in His sight. God has dealt with the sin leading to condemnation issue in Christ interceding on our behalf. Of course we are not perfected yet as we dwell in the body of flesh, but we will someday become fully perfected as it says in Hebrews, we have come to mount Zion, etc...the spirits of justified men made perfect. Our spirits are new creations so we are perfected spiritually to God because of what Christ did, we are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God. Our bodies though are dead because of sin, yet our spirits alive because of His righteousness not of ourselves, see this is God's gift to us who believe and trust in Christ our eternal Savior. Christ said you must be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Well if HE is our Father, then HE will see it gets done. Some of this is the good works HE has created BEFOREHAND for us to do. So before you were saved, God knew you and had everything already worked out, known from eternity are all God's works

2 Corinthians 5:9
[ The Judgment Seat of Christ ] Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.

Philippians 4:18
Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.

Colossians 1:10
that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Colossians 3:20
Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 2:4
But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

Titus 2:9
Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back,

Hebrews 13:21
make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.