”“Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.”So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.” Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.“
John 12:27-33 NASB1995
Hentenza said:
Some will not believe and will not be saved. Why did you stop at verse 33. How come you claim context where there isn’t any. Here let’s finish reading past verse 33.
“The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how is it that You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you.
Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; also, the one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus proclaimed, and He went away and hid Himself from them. But though He had performed so many signs in their sight, they still were not believing in Him. This happened so that the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke would be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, “He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they will not see with their eyes and understand with their heart, and be converted, and so I will not heal them.” These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke about Him. Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God. Now Jesus cried out and said, “The one who believes in Me, does not believe only in Me, but also in Him who sent Me. And the one who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as Light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me will remain in darkness.
If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. For I did not speak on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.””
John 12:34-50 NASB2020
The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how is it that You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to
bible.com
Is pretty simple brother. Jesus came to save the world but the world did not accept Him. The ones that did are resurrected to glory while the ones that did not are judged by God to perdition. You can’t force verses to say what you want.
My reply:
my brother, all your providing more of the passage did nothing to provide context that added nor qualified anything to indicate Jesus didn’t mean what he said when he stated he would draw all men unto himself. Nothing … let’s call it the “irrelevant context fallacy.”
That is not what the Scriptures I quoted you above contextually states.
Hentenza said:
Nah. You missed again.
my reply:
a swing and yet another miss
This is a completely irrational statement … which stems from ignorance. Your preconceived notion of UR, fed to you by our adversary, via the religious institution of man known as orthodoxy, has lulled you in to a false sense of security. One in which you yourself declare to be true of others but omit yourself, when stating … “depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.”
Hentenza said:
So now you are going to question my dedication to the Lord in favor of your false teachings. I have refuted your arguments with scripture time and time again. You guts gave the same UR out of context verse playbook attempting to force the scriptures to say what it doesn’t say.
my reply: I never questioned your dedication to the Lord so stop projecting your own thoughts upon me. You. Have. Refuted. Nothing. lol.
They will be saved because that is the will and desire of our Heavenly Father …
Hentenza said:
As long as they have faith in Christ. That is what scripture teaches which is why UR was declared anathema.
my reply: perfect example of your ignorance surrounding the UR position. You just enjoy speaking untruths about subject matter you know nothing about because it provides a distraction for embracing a theology that leaves you in limbo concerning your fate as outlined in your theological paradigm. Feel free to call me out on anything I have written on his forum which indicates I do not believe faith in The Christ is not required.
Now my brother, you may not be aware of just how thoroughly you are being manipulated by our adversary. You are projecting upon me your very own, not mine, thoughts about forced confessions. This again, is a product of your theology because you have distain for that which is not genuine and from the heart. Good. So do I.
Hentenza said:
I will rebound this back to you. My theology has survived the test of time while yours not so much.
my reply:
your reply makes no sense to me … What exactly are you rebounding back to me? lol. I actually paid you a compliment:
”
you have distain for that which is not genuine and from the heart. Good. So do I“, guess you missed it.
Since when was/is the length of time one’s theological position is embraced by the masses a criteria for truth? UR is alive and well since it was penned under divine inspiration in the Scripture. You are just not yet prepared to receive it.
For the record … I have never stated God forces anyone to confess he is Lord. In fact, on this forum, I have proposed on several threads that any confession made to our King Jesus is wrought by their being confronted with their sin in the light of the pure love of God.
Hentenza said:
We are saved by the grace of God through faith. No grace, no faith.
my reply:
Ummmmmmmm, yeahhhhh, I have never indicated I believe otherwise. More self projecting ignorance from you. Your distain and opposition to UR is obvious but it is ridiculous how many false assumptions you make about subject matter you know nothing about. You really should stop, it makes you look … well, ignorant.
I have on multiple occasions put forth the following challenge on his forum, perhaps even also to you, but so far no takers. Please demonstrate for me, from the passage I have quoted below, how one arrives at this being a forced confession?
Remember. Every passage of Scripture should be able to stand on its own merits, as it was intended for its original designated audience.
Hentenza said:
That is totally incorrect and probably the only way that you can peddle your theology. A verse in an island is exactly that a verse in an island. Your hermeneutics is faulty . I exhort you to study Bible interpretation.
my reply:
my hermeneutics are just fine … again, you only see what you wish to see. Please note the above highlighted/underlined … it says passage, not verse. Now, demonstrate how you arrive at a forced confession being set forth in the Philippians two passage.
There was no Canon of Scripture available at the time this inspired writing was penned. Only after a clear understanding of the authors original intent, to his original audience, can one pursue a proper harmonization with other Scripture. At least that is how I approach the interpretive process. I eagerly await your contextually sound interpretation of this passage.
Hentenza said:
The Apostles were the canon of scripture at that time. They were writing it and explaining it to the people.
Paul teaches Timothy that:
“All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB2020
All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good w
bible.com
He would not be able to teach that if the scriptures were not available.
my reply:
well. Paul did write most of the NT epistles and I never said he/they didn’t have the Scriptures. I said the canon was not available. It was being penned. A letter was penned to a specific audience, at a certain time, with an objective stemming from the authors intent and his understanding of the Scriptures. Everything his audience needed to know, understand and believe is/was provided for them in the authors letter. NO?
”Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.“
Philippians 2:5-11 NASB1995
Hentenza said:
Context context. Notice that the beginning of verse 1 starts with “therefore” which is the conclusion of what was written in chapter 1. Remember that there were no chapters back then but only a continuous scroll so you have to read it as such. Let’s see what Paul was teaching the Philippians.
“Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I
will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; and in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and this too, from God. For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf, experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.”
Philippians 1:27-30 NASB2020
Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind s
bible.com
Who are the opponents which us a sign of destruction for them? Not everyone turns to Christ. Not everyone will listen to His word and not everyone will follow Christ.
My reply:
read the entire book if you will brother … sorry but just more “irrelevant context fallacy.” Nothing you have brought to the table “contextually” alters the far reaching scope of this glorious proclamation … read it. Believe it. Embrace it. Stop reinterpreting it to fit your long standing theological safety net provided to you by the institution of men via our adversary.
