The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Bible Highlighter]

I never agreed to that either.

Jesus Christ died for our sins. The "once for all" phrase throughout Hebrews means He died for all of our sins, even before we committed any of them. On the basis of faith in Christ, we are saved (Eph 2:8). We are forgiven (Acts 10:43). These verses aren't negotiable.

Believers continue to struggle with sin because they still have their sin nature (Rom 6,7, Gal 5). Therefore, believers need on-going cleansing of sin in order to have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1). That's why believers are to confess their sins.

1 Jn 1:9 will NEVER save anyone. Nor will it re-save anyone. It WILL cleanse the believer from the sins that are committed, and either restore or maintain fellowship with God.

God cannot have fellowship with sin. So believers need cleansing. This isn't a difficult issue. It's simple.

When the believer sins, he/she is to confess that sin, and they will be cleansed.

If sin can "effectr a person's salvation" as you note, then Christ FAILED miserably in His mission on earth.

John the baptist said this of Him: The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! Jn 1:29

Notice that he did not say "takes away past sins of the world". The phrase "sin of the world" includes every sin committed. He died for the sin of the world.

Even the Samaritans had this right about their theology: and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.” Jn 4:42

If Christ died only for 'past sins' (there is no verse that teaches this), then He isn't really the Savior of the world, nor did He really take away the sin of the world. He is only a partial Savior, and those who stop sinning or confess their sins participate in their own salvation, making them partial savior of themselves.

Don't you see how messed up your theology is?

Please explain what 1 Jn 3:8 means: He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Esp the bolded part.

But how can 1 John 1:9 restore fellowship if we sin if all sin is forgiven us by his one time sacrifice?
Your belief is a contradiction, my friend.


....

 

[FreeGrace2]

But how can 1 John 1:9 restore fellowship if we sin if all sin is forgiven us by his one time sacrifice?

I will explain it again. Christ died for all sin, which removed the sin barrier that separated God from humanity. We know from Scripture that faith in Christ results in the believer being declared righteous, which is on the basis of Christ's (NOT our own) work on the cross for us.

Jesus described the result of this as being "clean" in John 13:10-11
10 Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”
11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

The phrase "has bathed" refers to faith in Christ, which results in being "completely clean". Jesus then pointed out that Judas was "not clean". Which proves that he never believed.

And note; even though the "who ha bathed" is "completely clean", he STILL "needs only to wash his feet".

Jesus was using a "real world example" of His day to illustrate a spiritual principle: in that day walking on roads or paths always resulted in getting animal (and probably human) feces on their feet and/or sandals. So, even though the person had already had a bath, they STILL had to get their feet washed before entering a house or building. This was just good sanitary practice and allowed fellowship. If you lived in that time and thought, like Peter, that just because you had taken a bath before visiting a friend, you didn't need to have your feet washed after walking to your friend's house, if you entered without getting your feet washed, I assure you that there would be NO fellowship between you and your friend.

The horrible smell from your feet would RUIN any possibility of "friendly relationship" (fellowship) between you and your friend. iow, your feet would stink to high heaven.

God views sin the SAME WAY. We NEED to "wash our feet" so that our lives won't 'stink to high heaven' an RUIN FELLOWSHIP with God.

Your belief is a contradiction, my friend.....

In fact, it is your belief system that is the total contradiction. You preach a "cannot sin and be saved" theology, yet you have admitted that you yourself have not achieved a state of sinless perfection, yet you claim to be saved.

Regarding Scripture, please explain each of these verses:
Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:17 - If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 6:10 - For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Rom 7:10 - The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
Rom 7:14-25 (please explain the present tense in all these verses)
Rom 9:30 - What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:32 - Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone
Rom 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

As I read these verses, I see how they all refute your views. I would like you to explain them based on your views.

I don't see how you can.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is a very imaginative interpretation but the text does not specifically say such a thing when Jesus was washing His disciples' feet. We actually do not see any verse in Scripture clearly spelling out this so called "fellowship sin." For Catholics try to prove their traditions in the Bible but yet there is no real evidence of such a thing. This is what you are doing with the concept of "fellowship sin." It doesn't really exist. Only imaginative interpretations upon the text that such a thing is there when it is not really there.


....

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is a very imaginative interpretation but the text does not specifically say such a thing when Jesus was washing His disciples' feet. We actually do not see any verse in Scripture clearly spelling out this so called "fellowship sin."

Please pay attention, for heaven's sake. I've already said that I NEVER said anything about "fellowship sin". I SAID that sin breaks fellowship, or do you really think you can have fellowship with another all the while OFFENDING them in the process?

The example I gave was REAL WORLD, something you've always demanded. The example was clear and explicit. People back then HAD to wash their feet in order NOT to offend others when visiting in their homes. If that's not obviously clear, there is no sense in any further discussion.

For Catholics try to prove their traditions in the Bible but yet there is no real evidence of such a thing.

I don't care what the RCC does. It doesn't matter. I GAVE you a specific example of WHY people washed their feet in Jesus' time. Why do you NOW reject a real world example?

This is what you are doing with the concept of "fellowship sin." It doesn't really exist.

You're really amazing. I NEVER spoke of such a category of sin. But why do you continue to think that one can sin and still have fellowship with God? That's absurd. Sin breaks fellowship. It's OFFENSIVE to God.

How can one have fellowship with another WHEN they are OFFENDING the other person? Not possible.

The problem with your view is that it assumes, apart from ANY evidence from Scripture, that sin severs RELATIONSHIP with God. That's where you're completely off the grid.

 

[-57]

Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it. For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. For when a person reads their Bible they will see a refutation of Eternal Security in the majority of the New Testament (and in some cases, depending on the book, they will see a refutation of Eternal Security on almost every page). Therefore, I beg everyone here (who believes in Eternal Security and who has an open heart to receive the seed of God's Word into their heart) to re-examine what they believe and look at the following verses by way of prayer. For if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose (because I do not believe in Works Salvationism; I believe in Relationship-ism with God). But if the Eternal Security Proponent is wrong, they have everything to lose. Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

Source:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/your-handy-dandy-long-list-of-verses-against-osas.83484/


....

Yikes...what a scarey God you present. That list was sooooooooo long I can't see how a single person can remain saved.

But, lets go to the very first anti-OSAS verse on the list.

Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

According to the way inwhich the verse is used...or should I say twisted...if you step out of bounds, don't do Gods will.....back into condemned state you go. God may want you to work in a soup kitchen, or talk to a certain individual...but if you fail to so...you are not in the will of God.


The question is, what is the will of God the Father?

John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

....would you like to move on to number 2?

 

[EmSw]

Yikes...what a scarey God you present. That list was sooooooooo long I can't see how a single person can remain saved.

But, lets go to the very first anti-OSAS verse on the list.

Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

According to the way inwhich the verse is used...or should I say twisted...if you step out of bounds, don't do Gods will.....back into condemned state you go. God may want you to work in a soup kitchen, or talk to a certain individual...but if you fail to so...you are not in the will of God.

I'm wondering if it is God's will for each of us to cast away all our transgressions to make ourselves a new heart. What do you say?

 

[-57]

I'm wondering if it is God's will for each of us to cast away all our transgressions to make ourselves a new heart. What do you say?

Wills a bit bigger as one walks in Christ. Sure, God has stuff for us to do...a secondary will so to speak...that would be His "will" for the believer.
I also recognize we always don't do that "will". The way "will" was used in the long list tells us no one can really be saved because everyone finds themselves outside of Gods will. It is possible, or likely that someone who beholds the Son and believes in Him....will sin. When they sin they are outside the will of God.

But, lets read the verse again..

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life

The "original" will.....believe in Jesus. Behold the Son....and receive ETERNAL LIFE.

How can someone have eternal life....and then lose it?

The bible doesn't say....For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have the oppertunity for eternal life.

 

[EmSw]

Wills a bit bigger as one walks in Christ. Sure, God has stuff for us to do...a secondary will so to speak...that would be His "will" for the believer.
I also recognize we always don't do that "will". The way "will" was used in the long list tells us no one can really be saved because everyone finds themselves outside of Gods will. It is possible, or likely that someone who beholds the Son and believes in Him....will sin. When they sin they are outside the will of God.

But, lets read the verse again..

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life

The "original" will.....believe in Jesus. Behold the Son....and receive ETERNAL LIFE.

How can someone have eternal life....and then lose it?

The bible doesn't say....For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have the oppertunity for eternal life.

It does say believe in Him. Do one believe in Him if he doesn't obey His commands?

 

[-57]

It does say believe in Him. Do one believe in Him if he doesn't obey His commands?

Of course. I believe in Him. Do I always obey His commandments? I will admitt it, I often fail. How about you? Do you find that sometimes you fail in obeying Jesus' commandments?

Will my failures cause me to lose my salvation? Nope.

 

[EmSw]

Of course. I believe in Him. Do I always obey His commandments? I will admitt it, I often fail. How about you? Do you find that sometimes you fail in obeying Jesus' commandments?

Will my failures cause me to lose my salvation? Nope.

If we stay and continue in our sin, our sin will keep us from heaven. Graciously, the Lord has provided us with repentance for the remissions of sins.

We all fail at some point, however, we have the choice to continue in that sin, or, with His help, remove it from our hearts.

The Lord has given us the knowledge of salvation by the remission of our sins.

Luke 1
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

And it's through the tender mercy of God.

 

[-57]

If we stay and continue in our sin, our sin will keep us from heaven. Graciously, the Lord has provided us with repentance for the remissions of sins.

We all fail at some point, however, we have the choice to continue in that sin, or, with His help, remove it from our hearts.

The Lord has given us the knowledge of salvation by the remission of our sins.

Luke 1
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

And it's through the tender mercy of God.

Your reply seems to be somewhat neutral...not really addressing the issue.

 

[EmSw]

Your reply seems to be somewhat neutral...not really addressing the issue.

How does one get the knowledge of salvation? It's plainly written in Luke. If one has no knowledge of salvation, how will he obtain it?

 

[-57]

How does one get the knowledge of salvation? It's plainly written in Luke. If one has no knowledge of salvation, how will he obtain it?

Considering we are all dead in our sins and trespasses...we can't really get the knowledge unless God quickens us.

 

[sdowney717]

Considering we are all dead in our sins and trespasses...we can't really get the knowledge unless God quickens us.

I agree with you.
When Jesus asked His disciples, whom do men say that I AM, some said this or that, but Peter said Jesus was God's Christ, Son of God.
Christ's response then to Peter nailed the truth, that such knowledge is revealed from God to a person and by no other way do we know who Jesus is.

 

[corinth77777]

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin , because he is born of God.

So that leaves this...you are born of him or you are not...



God's seed remaineths

 

[corinth77777]

Is salvation only a future event?

is the kingdom of God a place of salvation?

Is salvation dependant upon and interactive knowledge of God?

And who does God impart knowledgse to?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin , because he is born of God.

So that leaves this...you are born of him or you are not...



God's seed remaineths

I am surely lost, but I'm so happy for you! Your sinless state must be wonder! Congrats!!!

 

[corinth77777]

I am surely lost, but I'm so happy for you! Your sinless state must be wonder! Congrats!!!

lol well...if you are lost you know if you have a smart phone....you can use the free navigation system....smile..."my sinless state" are u a prophet of the future?..and if you are you are welcome....but surely all glory goes to God...

If you are a follower of Christ....and you don't understand a post wouldnt it be better to ask the meaning instead of provoking someone with sarcasm?...mmmm

I'll pretend to be a follower..."what do you mean corinth"...well the post my brother is on Eternal security...and This passage seems to nail a head...you either have Christ and are born again through faith...or you don't have faith and are not born again- yet....yet-hoping you will be.

"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

 

[FreeGrace2]

And who does God impart knowledgse to?

Those who have listened and learned from Him:

John 6:45 - “It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

 

[corinth77777]

Those who have listened and learned from Him:

John 6:45 - “It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

To add:And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.