The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Bible Highlighter]

Once again, jason has misunderstood what Jesus was saying.

Well, such a response is typical. For in my many dealings with Eternal Security Proponents over the years, one tactic that is common among them is that smart remarks are made instead of bringing up a verse to support their belief and or a detailed counter argument with Scripture so as to address the passage I brought up so as to offer any kind of real context. Why? Because their belief is not actually founded on God's Word and therefore smart remarks is all they have to offer sometimes. In fact, I have had it where many of them have offered no Scripture at all and they just insulted me personally (Which does not help to prove they are on the side of the truth concerning God's Word).

Well, we get another glimpse of jason's theology. He doesn't believe that "all sin is paid for; past, present, and future". In black and white. This is just totally contrary to Scripture. It is clear that he fails to comprehend what "once for all" means in reference to Christ's sacrifice in Hebrews. It means He died for all sins. Not just some sins.

Nowhere does Scripture teach that future sin is paid for in either Hebrews or any other part of the Bible.

The Bible teaches that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). The common response by Eternal Security Proponents to 1 John 1:9 and other related passages is that it is dealing with some kind of so called "fellowship sin" (i.e. sins that cause a break in fellowship but not a loss of salvation). Just because the word "fellowship" appears in John's epistle does not mean that this so called "fellowship sin" exists. There is no verse in the Bible that specifically spells out what a fellowship sin actually is. The Bible does not distignuish betweeen fellowship sins (Which would be after believing) versus say sins dealing with salvation (Which would involve the new convert coming to the faith for the first time). But this whole "fellowship sin" concept is simply not true. For 1 John 1:7 says, "if we walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." This cleansing is obviously in reference to how the blood cleanses us as a part of our salvation because the blood cleansing sin for our salvation can be seen elsewhere in Scripture. In addition, 1 John 3:15 lets us know that John's epistle is dealing with salvation because he says, "no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

Anyways, the most popular passage that Eternal Security Proponents use to defend the idea that their future sin is forgiven them is Colossians 2:13-14 that says,

13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
(Colossians 2:13-14).​

Okay, when we read this passage, we have to realize that Jesus died for us before we were even a believer yet. Jesus is paying the price for all our sins so as to offer us the free gift that comes with certain conditions (i.e. one needs to have a true faith so as to access the saving grace of God). Nowhere does this passage say we are forgiven of all our sins before receiving the gift and nowhere does this passage say that all our sins (future sins) are forgiven if we receive such a gift. This merely means that Jesus paid the price for our sins so that He could be our substitute. So if we do faulter, we have His grace and mercy that we can go to so as to get right with the Lord. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we can just accept Christ or simply believe on Him and then move on with our lives as if nothing ever happened. Salvation changes a person's life. Not just half way or for the most part, but all the way. God totally transforms us from the inside out. Also, if you were to continue to keep reading into Colossians chapter 3, we see that that we are told to mortify or put away certain sins as believers. This is our responsibility as believers. We are told to put away sin in our lives. For Colossians 3 says the wrath of God abides on those who do such sins; And no mention is made of how the believer is exempt of the Wrath of God if they were to do these types of sins, ether.

As for Hebrews 10:10-12: Well, verse 14 says Christ perfects forever those who are Sanctified. This is the context of verses 10-12. Those who are Sanctified are those who have entered into the Sanctification process with God. For it is God's will and desire for you to be Sanctified or to be made holy (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3). For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). In fact, it those who do the will of the Father or the will of God (Who entered into the Sanctification Process) who are the ones who will enter into the Kingdom of God. For not everyone who says unto Jesus, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of God (Matthew 7:21). For the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened to a fool who built his house upon the sand whereby a storm came and destroyed it greatly (Matthew 7:26-27).

And again, he totally fails to understand the view of eternal security. There are very serious consequences to sin, but he just won't admit that is our view. Which seems dishonest to me. Why does he not believe what he's been told over and over? I guess he just loves to beat dead horses.

The Eternal Security Proponent believes that the believer being disciplined is God's version of punishing sin. But disciplining someone is not the same as punishing someone. Remember, God only chastens those in whom are His children and not those who are bastard sons. Those who are bastard sons do not care to be reformed or to be changed in any way in this life. They can generally live a holy life and think they are serving God but yet they get to keep one or two sins in their life (if they so choose) because they do not believe a true believer will ever stop sinning here in this life. So they give themselves an excuse to remain in their sins (When they can choose to fight against their sin and overcome it with God's help).

Stupid question. Go find a believer who is being disciplined and ask him.

For the Eternal Security Proponent, it doesn't matter if they have been disciplined supposedly by one sin. They still believe they will have some kind of sin the rest of their life. So discipline does not really help to reform them in any way. Maybe one or two sins, but not all sin. So they can continue in some kind of evil in this life. So discipline is useless because no true reform over their sin and a proper attitude of being against sin and striving to overcome it will ever take place. Besides, I do not see any great testimonies coming forth by Eternal Security Proponents of how they have been disciplined by God to stop sinning certain types of sins. Why should they? They believe they can sin and still be saved. So it really doesn't matter if they ultimately stop sinning certain types of sin in this life or not. They believe they will forever sin in this life or they teach that no sin can separate them from God. Hence, why sin is minimized by the Eternal Security Proponent's belief.

jason himself has admitted that he hasn't yet achieved sinless perfection, and he has said that he is saved. That is a contradiction to his own views. He rejects "sin and still be saved", yet he still sins and he claims to be saved. His views are internally contradicted.

Those who believe in Sinless Perfectionism is like the alcoholic who stumbles on his road to recovery in being sober. The Eternal Security Proponent will focus on their stumble in the present moment not seeing that they will overcome their addiction to alcohol one day. So they whisper in the alcoholics ear and say, "take another sip" and "you cannot do it." In other words, it is sort of like them saying, "we are all drunks or alcoholics and we can never stop drinking (sinning) in this life." "Maybe one day when we die we will stop being alcoholics."

Sin is minimized in the Eternal Security belief.

jason has been corrected on this point over and over, but he is either too thick to comprehend or he prefers to keep on lying about the views of others.

Again, the Eternal Security Proponent believes that discipline is an effective means of meeting justice and that it does not minimize sin. But see, what does it matter to a Eternal Security Proponent if they are disciplined and they still want to sin? They could just still sin and still be saved and think to themselves that even unbelievers go thru the same challenges in this life. So discipline is not really an effective deterrent in getting the believer to stop sinning certain sins in this life (if that is really what they want to do). Besides, what does it matter if the believer stops one or two sins if they are still doing other kinds of evil? For most (not all) Eternal Security Proponents deny Sinless Perfectionism or that one can stop sinning in this life.

Perfect justice only occurs in God's system. He is perfectly just. And He judged His own Son for the sins of mankind. But jason doesn't seem to understand this very basic doctrine.

While it is true that Jesus died for all mankind's sins, this was only so as to offer mankind the free gift and the conditions that come with keeping that gift. Nowhere is all of mankind forgiven and saved the moment Jesus died on the cross and was risen. Man has to act in receiving His gift and in maintaining it.

In jason's belief system, justice is what he thinks it is. iow, what satisfies his sense (warped as it is) of justice. Oh, and, btw, his belief system has no grace in it.

Grace does not give the believer a license to sin or to think they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Grace is not grace if one is still enslaved to their sin in some way. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (See 1 John 3:8).

This is true, but jason doesn't understand how it does. When we sin, we grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit. Sin breaks fellowship with God, just as the prodigal son was physically separated from his father in rebellion. Only when the son confessed his sin and repented of them by returning to his father was fellowship restored.

If I say I quenched a fire, it means I put the fire out (Which is usually done with water). If I say I quenched my thirst, that means I satisfied my thirst. In other words, if a person says they quenched the Spirit, that means the Spirit is no longer with them. Also, the Eternal Security Proponent seems to be forgetting that only those who labor for the food that does not perish is the one in whom God the Father has set his seal upon, too (See John 6:27). So their misuse of the Scripture in Ephesians does not hold water.

1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them

And he doesn't understand the meaning of "abiding" in that verse.

Another common tactic by Eternal Security Proponents is that they do not actually explain clearly what they mean when they discuss a verse or passage that is brought up. So instead of a detailed explanation with Scripture, an attack against my character is made and a cryptic response is made (As if that helped to prove their case in any way).


....

 

[EmSw]

Well, such a response is typical. For in my many dealings with Eternal Security Proponents over the years, one tactic that is common among them is that smart remarks are made instead of bringing up a verse to support their belief and or a detailed counter argument with Scripture so as to address the passage I brought up so as to offer any kind of real context. Why? Because their belief is not actually founded on God's Word and therefore smart remarks is all they have to offer sometimes. In fact, I have had it where many of them have offered no Scripture at all and they just insulted me personally (Which does not help to prove they are on the side of the truth concerning God's Word).



Nowhere does Scripture teach that future sin is paid for in either Hebrews or any other part of the Bible.

The Bible teaches that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). The common response by Eternal Security Proponents to 1 John 1:9 and other related passages is that it is dealing with some kind of so called "fellowship sin" (i.e. sins that cause a break in fellowship but not a loss of salvation). Just because the word "fellowship" appears in John's epistle does not mean that this so called "fellowship sin" exists. There is no verse in the Bible that specifically spells out what a fellowship sin actually is. The Bible does not distignuish betweeen fellowship sins (Which would be after believing) versus say sins dealing with salvation (Which would involve the new convert coming to the faith for the first time). But this whole "fellowship sin" concept is simply not true. For 1 John 1:7 says, "if we walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." This cleansing is obviously in reference to how the blood cleanses us as a part of our salvation because the blood cleansing sin for our salvation can be seen elsewhere in Scripture. In addition, 1 John 3:15 lets us know that John's epistle is dealing with salvation because he says, "no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

Anyways, the most popular passage that Eternal Security Proponents use to defend the idea that their future sin is forgiven them is Colossians 2:13-14 that says,

13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
(Colossians 2:13-14).​

Okay, when we read this passage, we have to realize that Jesus died for us before we were even a believer yet. Jesus is paying the price for all our sins so as to offer us the free gift that comes with certain conditions (i.e. one needs to have a true faith so as to access the saving grace of God). Nowhere does this passage say we are forgiven of all our sins before receiving the gift and nowhere does this passage say that all our sins (future sins) are forgiven if we receive such a gift. This merely means that Jesus paid the price for our sins so that He could be our substitute. So if we do faulter, we have His grace and mercy that we can go to so as to get right with the Lord. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we can just accept Christ or simply believe on Him and then move on with our lives as if nothing ever happened. Salvation changes a person's life. Not just half way or for the most part, but all the way. God totally transforms us from the inside out. Also, if you were to continue to keep reading into Colossians chapter 3, we see that that we are told to mortify or put away certain sins as believers. This is our responsibility as believers. We are told to put away sin in our lives. For Colossians 3 says the wrath of God abides on those who do such sins; And no mention is made of how the believer is exempt of the Wrath of God if they were to do these types of sins, ether.

As for Hebrews 10:10-12: Well, verse 14 says Christ perfects forever those who are Sanctified. This is the context of verses 10-12. Those who are Sanctified are those who have entered into the Sanctification process with God. For it is God's will and desire for you to be Sanctified or to be made holy (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3). For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). In fact, it those who do the will of the Father or the will of God (Who entered into the Sanctification Process) who are the ones who will enter into the Kingdom of God. For not everyone who says unto Jesus, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of God (Matthew 7:21). For the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened to a fool who built his house upon the sand whereby a storm came and destroyed it greatly (Matthew 7:26-27).



The Eternal Security Proponent believes that the believer being disciplined is God's version of punishing sin. But disciplining someone is not the same as punishing someone. Remember, God only chastens those in whom are His children and not those who are bastard sons. Those who are bastard sons do not care to be reformed or to be changed in any way in this life. They can generally live a holy life and think they are serving God but yet they get to keep one or two sins in their life (if they so choose) because they do not believe a true believer will ever stop sinning here in this life. So they give themselves an excuse to remain in their sins (When they can choose to fight against their sin and overcome it with God's help).



For the Eternal Security Proponent, it doesn't matter if they have been disciplined supposedly by one sin. They still believe they will have some kind of sin the rest of their life. So discipline does not really help to reform them in any way. Maybe one or two sins, but not all sin. So they can continue in some kind of evil in this life. So discipline is useless because no true reform over their sin and a proper attitude of being against sin and striving to overcome it will ever take place. Besides, I do not see any great testimonies coming forth by Eternal Security Proponents of how they have been disciplined by God to stop sinning certain types of sins. Why should they? They believe they can sin and still be saved. So it really doesn't matter if they ultimately stop sinning certain types of sin in this life or not. They believe they will forever sin in this life or they teach that no sin can separate them from God. Hence, why sin is minimized by the Eternal Security Proponent's belief.



Those who believe in Sinless Perfectionism is like the alcoholic who stumbles on his road to recovery in being sober. The Eternal Security Proponent will focus on their stumble in the present moment not seeing that they will overcome their addiction to alcohol one day. So they whisper in the alcoholics ear and say, "take another sip" and "you cannot do it." In other words, it is sort of like them saying, "we are all drunks or alcoholics and we can never stop drinking (sinning) in this life." "Maybe one day when we die we will stop being alcoholics."



Again, the Eternal Security Proponent believes that discipline is an effective means of meeting justice and that it does not minimize sin. But see, what does it matter to a Eternal Security Proponent if they are disciplined and they still want to sin? They could just still sin and still be saved and think to themselves that even unbelievers go thru the same challenges in this life. So discipline is not really an effective deterrent in getting the believer to stop sinning certain sins in this life (if that is really what they want to do). Besides, what does it matter if the believer stops one or two sins if they are still doing other kinds of evil? For most (not all) Eternal Security Proponents deny Sinless Perfectionism or that one can stop sinning in this life.



While it is true that Jesus died for all mankind's sins, this was only so as to offer mankind the free gift and the conditions that come with keeping that gift. Nowhere is all of mankind forgiven and saved the moment Jesus died on the cross and was risen. Man has to act in receiving His gift and in maintaining it.



Grace does not give the believer a license to sin or to think they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. Grace is not grace if one is still enslaved to their sin in some way. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (See 1 John 3:8).



If I say I quenched a fire, it means I put the fire out (Which is usually done with water). If I say I quenched my thirst, that means I satisfied my thirst. In other words, if a person says they quenched the Spirit, that means the Spirit is no longer with them. Also, the Eternal Security Proponent seems to be forgetting that only those who labor for the food that does not perish is the one in whom God the Father has set his seal upon, too (See John 6:27). So their misuse of the Scripture in Ephesians does not hold water.



Another common tactic by Eternal Security Proponents is that they do not actually explain clearly what they mean when they discuss a verse or passage that is brought up. So instead of a detailed explanation with Scripture, an attack against my character is made and a cryptic response is made (As if that helped to prove their case in any way).


....

And the eternal security proponent will never agree with 1 John 2:29 -

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

A man is not even born of God if he doesn't practice righteousness, or do good.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, such a response is typical. For in my many dealings with Eternal Security Proponents over the years, one tactic that is common among them is that smart remarks are made instead of bringing up a verse to support their belief and or a detailed counter argument with Scripture so as to address the passage I brought up so as to offer any kind of real context.

jason has been given many verses that teach eternal security, but he has chosen to reject them all.

Nowhere does Scripture teach that future sin is paid for in either Hebrews or any other part of the Bible.

The phrase "once for all" proves that jason's claims are false.

Grace does not give the believer a license to sin or to think they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved.

This so-called "license to sin" doesn't come from grace. It comes from our sin nature. And everyone has one, including jason. He has admitted that he hasn't yet achieved the state of sinless perfection, yet he also claims to be saved, which contradicts his view on sinning and being saved.

He admits to sin, yet he claims to be saved. But he tells everyone that they can't sin and be saved. He is very confused. The Bible describes his views as "self deceived and the truth is not in him", per 1 Jn 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin (jason claims that he will become sinless), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Grace is not grace if one is still enslaved to their sin in some way.

jason's views reveal total ignorance of what Paul taught about the struggle between the sin nature and the new nature in Rom 6 and 7. And Gal 5.

For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (See 1 John 3:8).

And how did He do that? By dying for all sin. "Once for all" means just that. But jason denies this truth.

If I say I quenched a fire, it means I put the fire out (Which is usually done with water). If I say I quenched my thirst, that means I satisfied my thirst. In other words, if a person says they quenched the Spirit, that means the Spirit is no longer with them.

More direct denial of Truth of God's Word. Jesus promised the coming of the Holy Spirit, who would be with us forever. jason denies that promise directly.

Further, the Holy Spirit is said to be a gift of God (Acts 2:38, 8:20, 10:45, 11:17).

In addition, both justification and eternal life are described as gift of God in Rom 3;24, 5:15,16,17 and 6:23.

Finally, jason denies the turth of Rom 11:29 which says that the gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE.

Also, the Eternal Security Proponent seems to be forgetting that only those who labor for the food that does not perish is the one in whom God the Father has set his seal upon, too (See John 6:27). So their misuse of the Scripture in Ephesians does not hold water.

The reality of John 6:27 is found in v.29 - Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

So eternal security proponents have not misused Eph. Rather, Eph supports eternal security.

Another common tactic by Eternal Security Proponents is that they do not actually explain clearly what they mean when they discuss a verse or passage that is brought up.

Completely untrue. I've explained every verse I've quoted. And many verses are so clear they don't need further comment.

So instead of a detailed explanation with Scripture, an attack against my character is made and a cryptic response is made (As if that helped to prove their case in any way).....

One can only conclude that this is simply a lie. jason's character has never been quetioned, much less attacked.

And "cryptic responses" don't equate to an attack.

But jason is desperate to defend his unbiblical views.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason has been given many verses that teach eternal security, but he has chosen to reject them all.

Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it. For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. For when a person reads their Bible they will see a refutation of Eternal Security in the majority of the New Testament (and in some cases, depending on the book, they will see a refutation of Eternal Security on almost every page). Therefore, I beg everyone here (who believes in Eternal Security and who has an open heart to receive the seed of God's Word into their heart) to re-examine what they believe and look at the following verses by way of prayer. For if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose (because I do not believe in Works Salvationism; I believe in Relationship-ism with God). But if the Eternal Security Proponent is wrong, they have everything to lose. Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also seeMatthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/your-handy-dandy-long-list-of-verses-against-osas.83484/


....

 

[FreeGrace2]

Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it.

What he really means is how he twists and distorts the surrounding context in his obsession to disprove eternal security. But the verses are too clear and too many for his attempts to amount to anything other than direct rejection of truth.

For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

lol

In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security.

This is the exact thought of those who learned eternal security from Scripture. The says that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable. Yet he continues to deny that truth.

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also seeMatthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/your-handy-dandy-long-list-of-verses-against-osas.83484/....

Not any of these verses says that eternal life can be lost, or is revocable. It is obvious that he misunderstands/denies the truth of Scripture.

Which is his freedom to think. But the Scripture describes him as being self deceived and the truth is not in him.
1 Jn 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin (he believes in sinless perfection), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

His view is directly refuted by Scripture. Period.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The phrase "once for all" proves that jason's claims are false.

Again, Jesus died "once for all" is Christ paying the price for sin before many believers were even born yet. This passage does not say that once a person receives Jesus or has a mental acknowledgment on Him, that all their sin is forgiven: Past, present, and future. There are certain conditions a person must meet in receiving the gift (John 1:12) and in maintaining it (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, Proverbs 28:13). Again, when a person reads Hebrews 10:10, they also have to read verse 14 below (Hebrews 10:14) that says,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
(Hebrews 10:14).​

So who is Christ perfecting forever by His one offering according to Hebrews 10:14?

Those who are being Sanctified or those who are living holy and righteous.

This so-called "license to sin" doesn't come from grace. It comes from our sin nature. And everyone has one, including jason.

God cannot agree with a person's sin nature or their thinking they will always sin, though. Jesus's punishment upon the cross does not give a believer a license to sin. It doesn't work like that. God would then have to agree with a believer's wrong way of thinking (i.e. a sin and still be saved type belief) but God cannot agree with sin because He is holy, righteous, and good.

Men only make for an allowance for evil and think they can also serve God because they like their sin. The Pharisees thought this way, too; And Jesus had many problems with them.

He has admitted that he hasn't yet achieved the state of sinless perfection, yet he also claims to be saved, which contradicts his view on sinning and being saved.

He admits to sin, yet he claims to be saved. But he tells everyone that they can't sin and be saved. He is very confused.

Sinless Perfectionism is the teaching that one will overcome sin in time with God's help. However, the believer having yet not acheived a state of Sinless Perfectionism does not mean they are not saved, though. First, nowhere can a believer live in sin day in and day out without confessing it and still be saved (This applies to me as it does everyone else). Also, no believer can refuse to do certain things for God in this life and be right with Him, either (Like refusing to tell others about Jesus and helping the poor and in loving all people, etc.). If a believer sins, they have God's grace to fall back upon (By confessing it - 1 John 1:9), not as a license to sin, but as way to overcome sin for good (so they can walk in the light and be cleansed of all sin - 1 John 1:7). Second, Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for every believer (In the Sanctifcation Process) for Jesus told two people to "sin no more" and Jesus said to be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. The Father is perfect because He is holy and without sin. Sanctification is the natural process of becoming more holy (With Sinless Perfectionism being the end result). Sinless Perfectionism is not an overnight process for all believers. But to deny Sinless Perfectionism is to deny the Bible and the end result of Sanctification. Sanctification (being made holy) is a part of Salvation just as Justification and Glorification are a part of Salvation.

The Bible describes his views as "self deceived and the truth is not in him", per 1 Jn 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin (jason claims that he will become sinless), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John is not preaching against believers becoming sinlessly perfect or in them not sinning. Nowhere in John's epistle does he fight against the idea of Sinless Perfectionism. On the contrary, John tells us to "sin not." Such a statement would be in perfect agreement with Sinless Perfectionism because it also teaches us to, "sin not", too. For to "sin not" is the goal of Sinless Perfectionism.

As for 1 John 1:8:
Well, the confusion on the Eternal Security Proponent's misunderstanding on this verse can be quickly cleared up if they were to read the New English Translation that says,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8) (New English Translation).​

or if they were to read the Expanded Bible, that says,

"If we say we ·have no sin [or have no sin nature; or are not guilty of sinning], we are ·fooling [deceiving] ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8) (Expanded Bible).​

1 John 1:8 has to be read in context to 1 John 2:4. They are essentially saying the same thing. 1 John 1:8 is a warning against thinking the same way as the gnostics who denied sin's existence by thinking that there was no dire after death consequences if they did sin. Hence, why 1 John 1:9 is the next verse that follows - because it teaches a person what to do if they do happen to sin. 1 John 1:8 is written to the Christian Scientist today who thinks sin does not exist whatsoever. 1 John 1:8 is also written to the OSAS proponent (i.e. The Once Saved Always Saved believer) today because they partially deny sin's existence. For they believe they sin physically but yet they think sin does not exist for them on a spiritual level whatsoever because Christ paid for all their sins including present and future sins (Whereby they believed confession of sin was not necessary in order to be forgiven of sin). In other words, these types of believers ignore both 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:9 as a result of their denial of the consequences of sin.

1 John 3:7 says, "let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous,"
1 John 3:8 says, "he that commits sin is of the devil"

1 John 2:3-6 says,
3 "And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: by this we know that we are in him.
6 He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

"....and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).
"And cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30).
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (Matthew 12:48).
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity."
(Matthew 13:41).
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."
(Matthew 7:23).
"Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father [God] who is in heaven."
(Matthew 7:21).
"God's will is for you to be holy," (1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT).
Without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
"26 And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
(Matthew 7:26-27).

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Galatians 6:7-9).

If any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments."
(Matthew 19:17).
"If you love me, keep my commandments."
(John 14:15).
"He that loves not knows not God; for God is love."
(1 John 4:8).
"He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life."
(1 John 5:12).

jason's views reveal total ignorance of what Paul taught about the struggle between the sin nature and the new nature in Rom 6 and 7. And Gal 5.

I cannot see how a person can read Romans 6 and Galatians 5 and also say Paul personally struggled with sin and that it was a natural thing for him to do so. Paul says the words "God forbid" as an answer to the question, "Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound?" (Romans 6:1-2). Paul says yield yourselves to whose servants you obey. Obedience unto righteousness and or sin unto death (Romans 6:16). Paul is describing two ways to live here. One is sinful that leads to death and the other is righteous that leads to life. For Paul says, "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22). In Galatians 5, Paul lists various sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God such as murder, hate, fornication, and idolatry, etc. Paul also says in verse 24 that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. This is Sinless Perfectionism (i.e. the believer who has acheived the goal of their Sanctification process with God).

As for Romans 7: I can understand how someone can read Romans 7 and be confused by thinking Paul was saying that he personally struggled with sin as a Christian in this chapter. A person can easily come to that conclusion with a cursory reading of this chapter (if they are not paying attention closely to all of what Paul said). In the bulk of Romans 7: Paul was talking from his perspective as a Jew before he became a Christian and then at the end of the chapter, he ends his solution to his struggle with sin (Which is addressed to those readers who know the Law - Romans 7:1) by having victory in Jesus Christ. In addition, Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is a slave to sin and yet in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. So unless Paul contradicted himself, he was clearly talking from two different perspectives (One as a Jew before he became a Christian and one as a Christian).

More direct denial of Truth of God's Word. Jesus promised the coming of the Holy Spirit, who would be with us forever. jason denies that promise directly.

As for Ephesians 1:13-14:

What is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

For what are the conditions of receiving the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says the Spirit is given to those who obey Him and or who keep His Commandments.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebrews 3:6-19
3 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ,if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:1-11
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preachedentered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 6:11-12
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


Source Used:
http://bjorkbloggen.com/2012/04/22/...-redemption-but-a-seal-can-be-broken-eph-430/


...

 

[nobdysfool]

So, Christ died for all sins, including yours which were yet future at the time He died for them, But not really, because you must do something to obtain the forgiveness that has already (for you) been provided. Seems like you want to have it both ways, they're all covered, but only if you do something. and you have said before that future sins are not covered. Are they, or are they not?

If they're not covered, then Christ did not die for all sins. If they are, then your works-based salvationism is false.

A double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So, Christ died for all sins, including yours which were yet future at the time He died for them, But not really, because you must do something to obtain the forgiveness that has already (for you) been provided. Seems like you want to have it both ways, they're all covered, but only if you do something. and you have said before that future sins are not covered. Are they, or are they not?

If they're not covered, then Christ did not die for all sins. If they are, then your works-based salvationism is false.

A double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways...

First, James 1:8 is not in context as you suggest it. James 1:8 that says, "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways" is in context to being tempted to sin and it is in context to overcoming sin. For the context says,

14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren."
(James 1:14-15).

"Therefore put away all filthiness and extreme wickedness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls."
(James 1:21).​

Second, no actual verse in the Bible says that future sin is forgiven a believer whereby they do not need to worry about such future sins if they were to arise in their life. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that,

"Ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
(1 John 2:1).​

For...

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).​

And....

"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."
(Proverbs 28:13).​

Also, Jesus said,
"but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

Jesus also said,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

In addition, the apostle John said,

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
(1 John 2:3-6).​

For...

"Every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."
(1 John 2:29).​

And...

"He that committeth sin is of the devil;"
(1 John 3:8).​

For if all future sin was paid for, then a believer could hate or commit murder and they could still have eternal life abiding in them.
However, the Bible says this instead,

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
(1 John 3:15).​

For if all future sin was paid for, then a believer could look upon a woman in lust and not worry about their body being cast into hell fire.
However, the Bible says this instead,

28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:28-30).​

For if all future sin was paid for, then a believer could not forgive others and still be forgiven by the Father.
However, the Bible says this instead,

"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:15).​

For if all future sin was paid for, then a believer could lie and not have their part in the Lake of Fire.
However, the Bible says this instead,

"...And all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).​

So I really do not see how you can think the Bible teaches future sin is forgiven for the believer. It just does not line up with the Bible actually says.


...

 

[EmSw]

Second, no actual verse in the Bible says that future sin is forgiven a believer whereby they do not need to worry about such future sins if they were to arise in their life. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that,

If future sins are forgiven, repenting for the forgiveness of sins is unnecessary. We should not even see repenting for forgiveness anywhere beginning with the book of Acts.

However, we should note what Jesus told His disciples after His death and resurrection in Luke 24:

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And you are witnesses of these things.

If future sins are forgiven, why did Jesus say to preach repentance and remission of sins to all nations? Was Jesus wrong when He said this?

Did Jesus not know all future sins are forgiven? Did Jesus somehow lose his omniscience after coming from the grave?

Why did Jesus also tell the churches in Revelation to repent? I'm beginning to wonder who thinks they are right, Jesus or human reasoning.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If future sins are forgiven, repenting for the forgiveness of sins is unnecessary. We should not even see repenting for forgiveness anywhere beginning with the book of Acts.

However, we should note what Jesus told His disciples after His death and resurrection in Luke 24:

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And you are witnesses of these things.

If future sins are forgiven, why did Jesus say to preach repentance and remission of sins to all nations? Was Jesus wrong when He said this?

Did Jesus not know all future sins are forgiven? Did Jesus somehow lose his omniscience after coming from the grave?

Why did Jesus also tell the churches in Revelation to repent? I'm beginning to wonder who thinks they are right, Jesus or human reasoning.

I just re-edited my post to include a few more verses to show that the "future sin is forgiven" type belief is not taught in the Bible. This is also why I am doing a study on God's New Testament Commands in another section of this forum. I want to show people that there are tons of Commands in the New Testament that if disobeyed (and not repented of), they will have dire consequences to their soul in the after-life by doing so.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh, and here are a few more points in Scripture that tell us future sins are not forgiven for the believer.

#1. Do not disobey the words of Jesus.
(For disobeying the words of Jesus will cause one to fall greatly)
"And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
(Matthew 7:26-27).

#2. Do not deny Jesus before anyone.
(For in doing so, Jesus will deny you before the Father in Heaven)
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 10:33).

#3. Do not love your family more than Jesus.
(For in doing so, you will not be worthy of Him)
"He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37).

#4. Do not refuse to follow Jesus and take up your cross.
(For in doing so, you will not be worthy of Him)
"And he that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

#5. Do not find your life.
(For in doing so, you will lose your life)
"He that finds his life shall lose it" (Matthew 10:39).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If future sins are forgiven, repenting for the forgiveness of sins is unnecessary. We should not even see repenting for forgiveness anywhere beginning with the book of Acts.

However, we should note what Jesus told His disciples after His death and resurrection in Luke 24:

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And you are witnesses of these things.

If future sins are forgiven, why did Jesus say to preach repentance and remission of sins to all nations? Was Jesus wrong when He said this?

Did Jesus not know all future sins are forgiven? Did Jesus somehow lose his omniscience after coming from the grave?

Why did Jesus also tell the churches in Revelation to repent? I'm beginning to wonder who thinks they are right, Jesus or human reasoning.

Yes, repentance is important and it also refutes the erroneous belief that all future sin is forgiven. For Jesus said there is a consequence to not repenting,

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
(Luke 13:3).

Also, John 3:20 says that all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light. So if one is still doing evil, they are not truly believing in Jesus who is the source of their eternal life (and repenting of their sins). But Jesus told people to repent; And Jesus defined repentance for us by saying that the Ninevites will rise up in judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would see the King of the Ninevites telling his people to put on sackcloth and cry out to God. You would also see that they turned from their evil and wicked ways, too (i.e. the fruits of repentance).


...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, Jesus died "once for all" is Christ paying the price for sin before many believers were even born yet.

Which proves that He paid for ALL of them. How could He just die for sins up to the time of their faith since they hadn't even been born yet?

If He can do that, He can die for all of them just the same. And that is what "once for all" means, regardless of your spin on it.

This passage does not say that once a person receives Jesus or has a mental acknowledgment on Him, that all their sin is forgiven: Past, present, and future.

Heb 10:14 does directly.

There are certain conditions a person must meet in receiving the gift (John 1:12) and in maintaining it (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, Proverbs 28:13).

Please actually quote each verse and point out where there are conditions in receiving salvation, other than faith in Christ.

Again, when a person reads Hebrews 10:10, they also have to read verse 14 below (Hebrews 10:14) that says,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
(Hebrews 10:14).​

So who is Christ perfecting forever by His one offering according to Hebrews 10:14?

Believers.

Those who are being Sanctified or those who are living holy and righteous.

Sanctification has 2 meanings: positional and progressive. So living holy and righteous is being progressively sanctified.

God cannot agree with a person's sin nature or their thinking they will always sin, though.

God never agrees with sin. But He understands why people sin.

Jesus's punishment upon the cross does not give a believer a license to sin.

No one has said that it does. Our sin nature is why we still sin. Until we lose the sin nature, we will sin. Period. That's why Christ died for our sins. Please explain the reason He would only die for some sins, but not all sins. I'm really curious.

It doesn't work like that. God would then have to agree with a believer's wrong way of thinking (i.e. a sin and still be saved type belief) but God cannot agree with sin because He is holy, righteous, and good.

Which is why Christ died for all sins, and you're rejected.

Men only make for an allowance for evil and think they can also serve God because they like their sin.

You've been corrected on this nonsense too many times for you to still claim ignorance. So stop the lying about it.

The Pharisees thought this way, too; And Jesus had many problems with them.

They thought they were saved by being obedient to the Law. Jesus even pointed that out in John 5:39-40
39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

v.40 speaks to their refusal to believe in Him as Messiah.

Sinless Perfectionism is the teaching that one will overcome sin in time with God's help.

No one argues against the fact that with God's help, one won't sin. But sinless perfection is not that, as you assume. It means to "no longer sin at all", which is refuted directly by 1 Jn 1:8. You know, the "one who says he has no sin".

However, the believer having yet not acheived a state of Sinless Perfectionism does not mean they are not saved, though.

Your claim is that one cannot sin and be saved, by the phrase "sin and still be saved" you keep throwing out. Your phrase means that sin keeps one from being saved.

How about this: Re-think all your cute phrases and figure them out before you post them. As it is, you have contradicted yourself all over.

First, nowhere can a believer live in sin day in and day out without confessing it and still be saved (This applies to me as it does everyone else).

We are not saved on the basis of confession. And 1 Jn 1:9 does NOT teach that.

Acts 10:43 - “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Please stop pitting Scripture against Scripture. 1 Jn 1:9 is for daily cleansing, not saving. Saving occurs WHEN one believes in Christ.

John is not concerned with believers becoming sinlessly perfect or in them not sinning. Nowhere in John's epistle does he fight against the idea of Sinless Perfectionism.

He denounced and refuted it in 1 Jn 1:8.

On the contrary, John tells us to "sin not."

Which every believer should do. But not for maintenance of salvation.

As for 1 John 1:8:
Well, the confusion on the Eternal Security Proponent's misunderstanding on this verse can be quickly cleared up if they were to read the New English Translation that says,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8) (New English Translation).​

I don't really care about your cherry picked translation. From my interlinear: If we say that sin we have not, ourselves we deceive and the truth is not in us.

The interlinear translates the Greek words in the order they appear in the Greek.​

or if they were to read the Expanded Bible, that says,

"If we say we ·have no sin [or have no sin nature; or are not guilty of sinning], we are ·fooling [deceiving] ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8) (Expanded Bible).​

Even this translation refutes and condemns your view. You think you will become sinless, and therefore "not guilty of sinning". You are self deceived and the truth is not in you.​

1 John 1:8 has to be read in context to 1 John 2:4.

Both of them refute you.

They are essentially saying the same thing.

I agree. And both of them refute you.

As for Ephesians 1:13-14:

What is a guarantee?

Apparently not much to you. But God's guarantee means that it is permanent, just as eternal life is irrevocable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If future sins are forgiven, repenting for the forgiveness of sins is unnecessary. We should not even see repenting for forgiveness anywhere beginning with the book of Acts.

This would be the view of those who fail to understand the importance of fellowship and daily cleansing of sin in order to maintain fellowship.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Which proves that He paid for ALL of them. How could He just die for sins up to the time of their faith since they hadn't even been born yet?

A person's sins have been paid for (even before they were born) so as to offer man the gift of salvation. A person's sins are not personally forgiven for an individual if they do not become a believer and have no faith yet. For once an individual receives that gift of grace by faith (By believing), they need to continue in the faith (So as to continue to access the saving grace of God). If a person fails to continue in the faith (According to God's Word), then they are in unbelief again like they were before when they were an unbeliever; They are in a state of unbelief and not faith. This is a problem because the Scriptures say, "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23). In other words, when a person sins, they cannot access the saving grace of God (Which is a gift) because their sin is not of the faith. For it is written, "Without faith, it is impossible to please Him" (Hebrews 11:6); For by grace are you saved THRU faith (Ephesians 2:8). No faith anymore, means no saving grace.

If He can do that, He can die for all of them just the same.

But God would not do such a thing because that would mean He would have to approve of a person's willful rebellion done against Him because they did not choose to feel any remorse over their sin. If that was the case, then God would also forgive all people who did not believe in Jesus in any way shape or form, too. For "sin" is defined in the Bible as "transgression of the Law." (1 John 3:4). Laws are Commands or Commandments; And one of the New Testament Commands tells us to: "believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ," (1 John 3:23). So if one can "sin" or break God's Commands and still be saved as a believer, then an unbeliever can do the same thing because to: "believe on Jesus" is a Command in the New Testament like every other Command that was given to NT believers. In other words, in the Eternal Security Proponent's view there does not need to be any sorrow over sin that brings repentance that leads to salvation because future sin is just automatically forgiven a person. However, the Scriptures say, "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death." (2 Corinthians 7:10 NIV).

This passage does not say that once a person receives Jesus or has a mental acknowledgment on Him, that all their sin is forgiven: Past, present, and future.

Heb 10:14 does directly.

Yes, this is true, but Hebrews 10:14 only applies to those who are Sanctified in this life (i.e. those who live holy and by the faith - and not in sin).

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."​

By one offering He has perfected forever those who are Sanctified. Meaning, those believers who went thru the true Sanctification process successfully. For the word "sanctified" is being used in the past tense here. Sanctification deals with the process of one being made holy. But if a believer fails the Sanctification process and they are living in sin and unrighteousness (Which is an indication of the lord that that they serve - See 1 John 3:8), they are not going to see the Lord. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Please actually quote each verse and point out where there are conditions in receiving salvation, other than faith in Christ.

To "sin" is to: "not have faith."

"for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23).

We are saved by grace THRU faith.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith;" (Ephesians 2:8).

No faith, means no saving grace because we are saved by grace THRU faith.

That is why when a believer sins they are to confess of their sins.
For to confess sin means one is actually being forgiven of sin. That is what 1 John 1:9 says.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
(1 John 1:9).

But if all future sin was forgiven then no kind of sin would be needed to be confessed so as to forgive sin. There would be no such thing as a "fellowship sin" because all sin would be paid for at the cross according to the Eternal Security Proponent belief.

See, the way for a believer to have the blood cleanse them of all their sin is to walk in the light as Christ is in the light. This is what 1 John 1:7 says.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).​

Oh, and no; Just because the word "fellowship" appears in John's epistle does not equate with John talking about some kind of "fellowship sin." John makes no mention of this kind of sin and nor does he define this type of sin for us. In fact, no verse in Scripture defines it for us. It is a complete fabrication that does not exist in the Bible. It is purely an invention of man that is used to defend a sin and still be saved type doctrine.

Again, when a person reads Hebrews 10:10, they also have to read verse 14 below (Hebrews 10:14) that says,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
(Hebrews 10:14).

So who is Christ perfecting forever by His one offering according to Hebrews 10:14?

Believers.

No. The verse does not say "believers" in a generic sense in Hebrews 10:14. It says, "them that are sanctified."

Sanctification has 2 meanings: positional and progressive. So living holy and righteous is being progressively sanctified.

Is Hebrews 10:14 not talking about progressive Sanctification? If that is not so, then what verse draws one to that conclusion? Is it one's belief in Eternal Security or is that belief founded upon what the text actually says?

God never agrees with sin. But He understands why people sin.

No. Such a belief is a contradiction. For God to understand why people sin means He would have to allow believers to continue in sin on some level with the thinking they are saved. However, this would mean God would have to agree with their sin in order to forgive it (Because they are sinning with the thought they are saved). But God cannot agree with that type of thinking or plan of salvation because He is holy, righteous, and good.


....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This would be the view of those who fail to understand the importance of fellowship and daily cleansing of sin in order to maintain fellowship.

There are no verses that clearly talk about any kind of "fellowship sin" versus "sins dealing with salvation."

Verses please.



...

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are no verses that clearly talk about any kind of "fellowship sin" versus "sins dealing with salvation."

Verses please....

I never said there was. Why did you think so?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said there was. Why did you think so?

Then there is no such thing as "fellowship sins" vs. "sonship sins" if it is not mentioned in the Bible. I am glad we can then agree that 1 John 1:9 are sins that can effect a person's salvation then (if not confessed).


...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Then there is no such thing as "fellowship sins" vs. "sonship sins" if it is not mentioned in the Bible. I am glad we can then agree that 1 John 1:9 are sins that can effect a person's salvation then (if not confessed)....

I never agreed to that either.

Jesus Christ died for our sins. The "once for all" phrase throughout Hebrews means He died for all of our sins, even before we committed any of them. On the basis of faith in Christ, we are saved (Eph 2:8). We are forgiven (Acts 10:43). These verses aren't negotiable.

Believers continue to struggle with sin because they still have their sin nature (Rom 6,7, Gal 5). Therefore, believers need on-going cleansing of sin in order to have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1). That's why believers are to confess their sins.

1 Jn 1:9 will NEVER save anyone. Nor will it re-save anyone. It WILL cleanse the believer from the sins that are committed, and either restore or maintain fellowship with God.

God cannot have fellowship with sin. So believers need cleansing. This isn't a difficult issue. It's simple.

When the believer sins, he/she is to confess that sin, and they will be cleansed.

If sin can "effectr a person's salvation" as you note, then Christ FAILED miserably in His mission on earth.

John the baptist said this of Him: The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! Jn 1:29

Notice that he did not say "takes away past sins of the world". The phrase "sin of the world" includes every sin committed. He died for the sin of the world.

Even the Samaritans had this right about their theology: and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.” Jn 4:42

If Christ died only for 'past sins' (there is no verse that teaches this), then He isn't really the Savior of the world, nor did He really take away the sin of the world. He is only a partial Savior, and those who stop sinning or confess their sins participate in their own salvation, making them partial savior of themselves.

Don't you see how messed up your theology is?

Please explain what 1 Jn 3:8 means: He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Esp the bolded part.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Has anyone else realized that the OP started this mess and has not been heard from since?