The Last Reformation

[Jesus4Ever]

No. None of that.

The power is not ours, dependent on our own sanctity or our ability to stay holy enough. The power is all from God.

The moment we step from depending 100% on God and knowing that the power is all his and dependent ONLY on him we step away from Christianity and towards magic. That magic may or may not work, but it isn't Christianity any more.

If the disciples had to fast it was to remind them to stay dependent 100% on God. It was not to give them magical powers.

...But the disciples were given the power to heal through Jesus.

No, it was not man but it was through Jesus, through their faith of Him, that they able to heal and cast out demons.

So who says God can't work through people to heal others today?

 

[Jesus4Ever]

...

 

[LinkH]

Well, if we look at what the Bible says, then we should believe that God heals people, answers Christian's prayers, and gifts people with spiritual gifts, so why can't healings be real?

I Corinthians 12 teaches that the Spirit gifts members of the body of Christ with 'gifts of healing' and 'the working of miracles' as He wills. A couple of chapters later, Paul instructed the one who speaks in tongues to pray that he may interpret. When we pray, we are to believe that we have received. The Bible has much to say about those who pray in faith receiving what they believe for. James 1 contains a rebuke for the one who asks (for wisdom in this case) who doubts. It says that he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven with the wind and tossed. Let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord.

So Paul told the man in that case to pray for a gift. Gifts are given as the Spirit wills. When we pray, we are to pray in faith and receive. So how can we conclude that it is not the Spirit's will to give those who ask in faith for these gifts?

And we should expect that if someone is sick and a Christian prays for him, and believes he receives what he asks for, he shall have it, right? If we believe the Bible, why would we believe that God isn't healing people when Christians ask for it in faith?

 

[Ron Gurley]

RESPONSE TO POST#104...Q1"..."believe(? )if one sins after they believe Jesus (SIN AFTER SALVATION)?.

A1: WAY OFF POINT! (as is repent/repentance)
YES. The Bible clearly states so!


1 JOHN 1 (NASB)…TO BELIEVERS! …God Is Light (NOTE: Dark is absence of Light)
5 This is the message “we” have heard from Him (Jesus) and announce to you,
that God is Light,
and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
>><we lie and do not PRACTICE the “truth”;<<<
7 BUT if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have FELLOWSHIP with “one another”,
and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
>>>8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.<<<
9 If we CONFESS (AGREE WITH GOD ABOUT) our sins, He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness.
>>>10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.<<<

"Forgiveness of Sins" is a spiritual gift and a benefit of salvation!

 

[LinkH]

only saying that I believe if someone needs deliverance from a demon that should be done before they are baptized not after. That is my main complaint against them.

Yeah, I found that emphasis a bit weird in one of the videos. I thought, 'why didn't they cast it out before the baptism?' Historically, I've read that excorcisms before baptisms was a thing. So was renouncing Satan.

I think I may have put a comment on Facebook or somewhere on one of these videos suggesting excorcism before baptism if they are going to do it.

 

[LinkH]

If that were true they would go into the nearest hospital and heal all the patients, with doctors there to verify the cases.

You won't find them doing that, for good reason. It is all a fake.

The Holy Spirit does not need any of us to follow any 'rules' before he heals.

We could also say that if you believe in evangelism, and that it is possible for someone to be a new creature in Christ Jesus, that you should walk into a stadium of people, preach the Gospel, and every single person there has to believe and be saved, or your beliefs are wrong and that salvation and evangelism are fake? Clearly that is wrong. But isn't that about the same thing you are saying about healing?

 

[Ron Gurley]

Here is how Man should be "healed" after the SIGN GIFT of "healings" at the sole will of the healer CEASED:

James 5:13-16 (NASB)
Is anyone among you suffering?
Then he must pray.
Is anyone cheerful?
He is to sing praises.
Is anyone among you sick?
Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and
the Lord will raise him up, and
if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
Therefore, confess your sins to "one another", (believers)and
pray for "one another" so that you may be healed.
The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Philippians 4: 4-9 (NASB)
Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!
Let your gentle spirit be known to all men.
The Lord is near.
Be anxious for nothing, but
in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

 

[LinkH]

There were no hospitals in first century Judea.

There was a pool where the sick gathered. We know of one person out of that whole crowd that Jesus healed. He didn't heal them, not on that occasion, at least as far as we know.

The woman with the issue of blood had beento many physicians. Jesus healed her. There is no record that he did it in front of her doctors or presented the evidence to them.

 

[LinkH]

Here is how Man should be "healed" after the SIGN GIFT of "healings" at the sole will of the healer CEASED:

The Bible doesn't call these gifts 'sign gifts.

The Bible does not say, hint, or indicate that this gift ceased.

These ideas are not part of 'the faith once delivered to the saints.' There is no indication that the apostles taught that these gifts ceased. The Bible does not support this theory.

James 5:13-16 (NASB)
Is anyone among you suffering?
Then he must pray.
Is anyone cheerful?
He is to sing praises.
Is anyone among you sick?
Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and
the Lord will raise him up, and
if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
Therefore, confess your sins to "one another", (believers)and
pray for "one another" so that you may be healed.
The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

The fact that James teaches that people can be healed through the laying on of hands of the elders accompanied by the prayer of faith does not do away with the fact that the Bible teaches that the Spirit gifts individuals to heal and to perform miracles as He wills. It is not either/or. It is both/and. Why through out parts of the Bible for no reason?

 

[Ron Gurley]

Start Here for QUESTION: Have the SIGN GIFTS of the "apostolic age CEASED?.

Speak in Tongues - essential : ...my view.

The miraculous "sign" gifts used by God to authenticate ~12-men as spirit-led MESSENGERS of the Gospel and TRUTH
(aka apostles) CEASED when the last of the original MSS of the Bible were "produced"...~100 AD.

Have the charismatic gifts ceased? | carm

When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?

Two Views on the "Sign Gifts": Continuity Vs. Discontinuity

Hebrews 2:4
God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of (God) the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

Here is a list of the temporary SIGN GIFTS:

1 Cor. 12: 8-10 (ALL NASB)
8 For to one is given:

1. the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another
   
   
2. the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another
   
   
3. faith by the same Spirit, and to another
   
   
4. gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the
   
   
5. effecting of miracles, and to another
   
   
6. prophecy, and to another the
   
   
7. distinguishing of spirits, to another
   
   
8. various kinds of tongues, and to another
   
   
9. the interpretation of tongues
   
   
   1 Corinthians 12:28,30
   
   And God has appointed in the "CHURCH",

1. first apostles,
   
   
2. second prophets,
   
   
3. third teachers, then
   
   
4. miracles, then gifts of
   
   
5. healings,
   
   
6. helps,
   
   
7. administrations, various kinds of
   
   
8. tongues...
   
   All do not have gifts of healings, do they?
   
   All do not speak with tongues, do they?
   
   All do not interpret, do they?

1 Cor.14
19 however, in the "CHURCH", I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.(glossa)
12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.

 

[Ron Gurley]

IMO:
"The Last Reformation "MOVEMENT.
is not based on Biblical doctrine and should be viewed with suspicion. SEE: Post #103.

 

[Adstar]

No that's another misconception.
It is written in 1 John that no one who is born of God will Continue to practice sin..
This means IF you mess up and sin ..the Lord will convict you..and chastise you and you will confess your sin and he will forgive you and you won't continue doing that thing.

So that to me means you will not do that sin anymore... If you do not continue doing a sin then you must stop doing that sin .. Why carn't people like you give a simple Yes answer...

So now have you ceased sinning or are you continuing to sin?

 

[Adstar]

So... why doesn't Jesus' statement that "a house divided against itself cannot stand" (Mark 3:25) apply during the last days anymore? If Satan can heal people by his own powers, does that mean that he does good things too? And why would God allow Satan to deceive even the Christians who want to do God's will?

Well is satan destroying satan if someone is getting healed of a sickness ?? Nope.. And no i do not believe satan can heal anyone with his own powers.. I believe God allows satan to perform the deceptions so that those who have rejected the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and the message of God can be decieved and believe that the false religion being supported by the lying signs and wonders.. So they can think that they are right with god and follow the teachings of the anti-christ religions and be used by satan to fulfill his will.. It is all a part of the great end times deception spoken of in prophecy..

Satan cannot deceive true Christians.. But there are many false Christians who do not trust in the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and go about preaching salvation by Law doing and sin avoidance.. They preach if you sin then you will be dammed to hell.. There are some on this very forum preaching this.. So They have rejected the Way of salvation of Jesus and preach in rebellion against His will, all the while claiming themselves to be representatives of God preaching His will... Can you imagine how wrathful God is against them? So God has set them up for deception in the end times so that they will believe the anti-christ is of God and they will worship him as God on earth..

 

[Ron Gurley]

Post #132: Q1:..."are you continuing to sin?"...

A1: Yes. I am a true believing Christ-follower, and like all true believers, I sin after salvation. 1 John 1

Romans 7 (NASB)...The Conflict of Two Natures of the Believer: spiritual nature vs sin nature
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, BUT I am of flesh ("sin nature"), sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand;
for I am not PRACTICING what I would like to do,
but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh;("sin nature")
for the WILLING is present in me, but the DOING of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do,
but I PRACTICEthe very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want,
I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

 

[Ron Gurley]

The END of that OFF POINT discussion.

 

[Alithis]

So that to me means you will not do that sin anymore... If you do not continue doing a sin then you must stop doing that sin .. Why carn't people like you give a simple Yes answer...

So now have you ceased sinning or are you continuing to sin?

Lol it's quite clear.No I do not do that sin any more..
What sin are you knowingly continuing to repeatedly practice..?

 

[Alithis]

The END of that OFF POINT discussion.

If you continue to do actions which you know..you KNOW they are sin..then you are making a willful decision to sin
That is a continued state of rebellion

You need to repent of that.

 

[Alithis]

IMO:
"The Last Reformation "MOVEMENT.
is not based on Biblical doctrine and should be viewed with suspicion. SEE: Post #103.

Your opinion is not scripture.
All so of course you won't like what they preach.
You preach contrary to scripture implying sin is ok
They preach the bible..it is to be repeated of and no longer knowingly practiced.
So your opinion is biased toward sin.

 

[Alithis]

Post #132: Q1:..."are you continuing to sin?"...

A1: Yes. I am a true believing Christ-follower, and like all true believers, I sin after salvation. 1 John 1

Romans 7 (NASB)...The Conflict of Two Natures of the Believer: spiritual nature vs sin nature
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, BUT I am of flesh ("sin nature"), sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand;
for I am not PRACTICING what I would like to do,
but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh;("sin nature")
for the WILLING is present in me, but the DOING of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do,
but I PRACTICEthe very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want,
I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

And he does not stop at that chapter.there is no chapter .he goes on to say what a wretched state that is and then praised God for being set FREE from it...
Wow I have heard your vereses pulled out to excuse sin so many times.but it won't stand before God.

 

[Adstar]

Lol it's quite clear.No I do not do that sin any more..
What sin are you knowingly continuing to repeatedly practice..?

So you believe you have ceased sinning and are living sinless in your current flesh?? Since you say you are not sinning any more..