The Last Reformation

[Alithis]

So you believe you have ceased sinning and are living sinless in your current flesh?? Since you say you are not sinning any more..

Did you read my former post to you on this sub topic ?
Because your misquoting my reply and then changing your question

 

[Adstar]

Did you read my former post to you on this sub topic ?
Because your misquoting my reply and then changing your question

Hard to nail down one of these sinlessness in the flesh preachers when you try to get them to say they have ceased sinning themselves.... They always dodge..

 

[Alithis]

...But the disciples were given the power to heal through Jesus.

No, it was not man but it was through Jesus, through their faith of Him, that they able to heal and cast out demons.

So who says God can't work through people to heal others today?

He can and does.
Have seen it often

 

[Alithis]

Well is satan destroying satan if someone is getting healed of a sickness ?? Nope.. And no i do not believe satan can heal anyone with his own powers.. I believe God allows satan to perform the deceptions so that those who have rejected the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and the message of God can be decieved and believe that the false religion being supported by the lying signs and wonders.. So they can think that they are right with god and follow the teachings of the anti-christ religions and be used by satan to fulfill his will.. It is all a part of the great end times deception spoken of in prophecy..

Satan cannot deceive true Christians.. But there are many false Christians who do not trust in the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and go about preaching salvation by Law doing and sin avoidance.. They preach if you sin then you will be dammed to hell.. There are some on this very forum preaching this.. So They have rejected the Way of salvation of Jesus and preach in rebellion against His will, all the while claiming themselves to be representatives of God preaching His will... Can you imagine how wrathful God is against them? So God has set them up for deception in the end times so that they will believe the anti-christ is of God and they will worship him as God on earth..

In this post you have accused God of being a deceiver. Your accusing God of sin .

 

[Alithis]

Yeah, I found that emphasis a bit weird in one of the videos. I thought, 'why didn't they cast it out before the baptism?' Historically, I've read that excorcisms before baptisms was a thing. So was renouncing Satan.

I think I may have put a comment on Facebook or somewhere on one of these videos suggesting excorcism before baptism if they are going to do it.

This is because you need to read the exodux account of the red sea..God saved Israel ..through baptism.
Before baptism they were still in the enemy domain .still in the kingdom of darkness..until brought through the red sea baptism .
Once baptised the enemies hold is shattered..its not a doctrine taught that there is any particular order.its just that they find some more stubborn devils..
Always come out at water baptism .

Its a matter of what is experienced not of a doctrine.

If you've cast out many devils your know what is meant.

 

[Alithis]

I don't believe the movement the OP is referring to is of God.

So preaching repentance..water baptism
Baptism of the holy Spirit
Healing the sick
Driving out devil's
Making disciples ..

ALL THE THAT JESUS SAID TO DO...
Is not of God...????
You need to think that through lol

 

[Alithis]

Hard to nail down one of these sinlessness in the flesh preachers when you try to get them to say they have ceased sinning themselves.... They always dodge..

I have ceased from practicing sin which I know to be sin.
And when the Holy spirit tells me and makes me aware of something in my life that is not godly but misses the mark..then I do not deny it But confess he is right and he forgives me and I cease from that also ..
it's an ongoing process.
But continuing to practice sin after he has revealed it to us ..is evidence that we are not born of God...read 1 John..ALL OF IT

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Well is satan destroying satan if someone is getting healed of a sickness ?? Nope.. And no i do not believe satan can heal anyone with his own powers.. I believe God allows satan to perform the deceptions so that those who have rejected the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and the message of God can be decieved and believe that the false religion being supported by the lying signs and wonders.. So they can think that they are right with god and follow the teachings of the anti-christ religions and be used by satan to fulfill his will.. It is all a part of the great end times deception spoken of in prophecy..

Satan cannot deceive true Christians.. But there are many false Christians who do not trust in the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and go about preaching salvation by Law doing and sin avoidance.. They preach if you sin then you will be dammed to hell.. There are some on this very forum preaching this.. So They have rejected the Way of salvation of Jesus and preach in rebellion against His will, all the while claiming themselves to be representatives of God preaching His will... Can you imagine how wrathful God is against them? So God has set them up for deception in the end times so that they will believe the anti-christ is of God and they will worship him as God on earth..

I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my head around any of the things you said. What would Satan have to gain by healing people if those people after they are healed thank God for the miracle? If Satan can heal people while uttering "in Jesus' name", then there is literally no way of discerning miracles that come from God from the miracles that come from Satan. Could Satan, who is the prince of lies, go around and instruct people to believe in Jesus and God? Why would a loving and just God allow people to be deceived if He says that He wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)? And no, I can't imagine how a just and loving God could be wrathful against people who want to draw near to Him, but were tricked by Satan into believing something else.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Saw it on the internet. Must be true.

 

[Hillsage]

Well when I said they are not affiliated with a denomination I literally mean they view themselves as the true extension of the Acts church with no connection even to "non denominational" groups. I went through their "Pioneer School" where their leader/founder Torben Sondergaard teaches his doctrine, and the first 2 or 3 are focused completely on the errors of modern denomination s including Pentecostals and nondenoms and why TLR is different.

I appreciate your defense of them concerning what you do agree with, even though you no longer are affiliated. As for me, I think that anyone who believes 'their church or denomination' is without error, is simply blind or deceived.

So, not having read this whole thread, I have a question going back to one of your first posts; What biblical basis do you have for your disagreement with them concerning baptism and deliverance?

 

[Hillsage]

I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my head around any of the things you said. What would Satan have to gain by healing people if those people after they are healed thank God for the miracle?

You should read the book called "The Beautiful Side of Evil", it might shed some light for you. Also you might want to meditate on 'why would an evil spirit spread the gospel'?

ACT 16:16 As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by soothsaying. 17 She followed Paul and us, crying, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation."

What, in your opinion, would Satan gain in the above situation?

If Satan can heal people while uttering "in Jesus' name", then there is literally no way of discerning miracles that come from God from the miracles that come from Satan. Could Satan, who is the prince of lies, go around and instruct people to believe in Jesus and God? Why would a loving and just God allow people to be deceived if He says that He wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)? And no, I can't imagine how a just and loving God could be wrathful against people who want to draw near to Him, but were tricked by Satan into believing something else.

Oh, but there 'literally is a way to discern'. And it's the same now as it was then. But, like then, it is only for those who are "spiritual brethren" according to scripture, that move in such gifts as; "to another discerning of spirits;" But if one isn't spiritual enough, they might want to hang with those who are IMO. My big question is; Why did it take several days for Paul to even receive 'the gift of discernment' and cast this demon out of the slave girl? Any thoughts?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I appreciate your defense of them concerning what you do agree with, even though you no longer are affiliated. As for me, I think that anyone who believes 'their church or denomination' is without error, is simply blind or deceived.

So, not having read this whole thread, I have a question going back to one of your first posts; What biblical basis do you have for your disagreement with them concerning baptism and deliverance?

My disagreement is they wait until after they baptize to cast out demons. It should be the other way around as no believers in the NT are ever found having demons cast out of them. It is only unbelievers.

 

[Hillsage]

My disagreement is they wait until after they baptize to cast out demons. It should be the other way around as no believers in the NT are ever found having demons cast out of them. It is only unbelievers.

I'm still curious concerning your reasoning. Maybe I should have asked if there a biblical reason for believing that what they are doing, is wrong? That's why I asked for a biblical basis, and I suppose your answer kind of is that, but it seems to me like you're limiting what they're doing, just because scripture is silent concerning the point. Would you say 'that's' your whole defense for believing that way?

Question; In your opinion, when you first get born again/saved, do you think all demons you've accumulated in life, have to leave, just because you got saved/born again? I know of no scriptural support for such a belief anyway.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I'm still curious concerning your reasoning. Maybe I should have asked if there a biblical reason for believing that what they are doing, is wrong? That's why I asked for a biblical basis, and I suppose your answer kind of is that, but it seems to me like you're limiting what they're doing, just because scripture is silent concerning the point. Would you say 'that's' your whole defense for believing that way?

Question; In your opinion, when you first get born again/saved, do you think all demons you've accumulated in life, have to leave, just because you got saved/born again? I know of no scriptural support for such a belief anyway.

Surely if there were scriptural support the view you espouse here, there would be examples in scripture of such. My reasoning is based off the existing accounts that of all the individuals who had demons cast out of them, not one was a believer before that event, and there is no account of any believer needing "exorcism" after being converted. Not even Ananias, Sapphira, Simon, etc are said to have had demons. And they did some pretty despicable things.

 

[Alithis]

I appreciate your defense of them concerning what you do agree with, even though you no longer are affiliated. As for me, I think that anyone who believes 'their church or denomination' is without error, is simply blind or deceived.

So, not having read this whole thread, I have a question going back to one of your first posts; What biblical basis do you have for your disagreement with them concerning baptism and deliverance?

Hi there. to eliviate your concern I will quote a sentence from one of their introductory lesson .... “we do not have the Whole truth, no One group or movement has the Whole truth .we are learning to be disciples .we need the Whole body of Christ...“- end quote.- the last reformation pioneer training school teaching staff.

 

[GUANO]

I'm surprised at how many Christians are weak in their faith. If you do not believe in healing how can you even believe in the resurrection of the dead and therefore why would you believe in any of it unless it's just your money-making career?

 

[Alithis]

Surely if there were scriptural support the view you espouse here, there would be examples in scripture of such. My reasoning is based off the existing accounts that of all the individuals who had demons cast out of them, not one was a believer before that event, and there is no account of any believer needing "exorcism" after being converted. Not even Ananias, Sapphira, Simon, etc are said to have had demons. And they did some pretty despicable things.

Bro... Your basing that on a theory ..I don't mean this as a challenge and I don't want a reply affirming or denying.. But have you ever experienced casting a demon out when one has thrown a person to the floor thrashing around screaming..?(consider that question when your presenting doctrinal theories)
Because theory is nice ..doctrinal theory is Also nice.. But when it happens your theories go out the window. Devils are snide cunning lying trespasses.. They don't Ask permission to harass and torment people.they sneak in through unlocked doors of sin pride unforgivness pain hurt wounds lied ocult activity horror...
Sin is thier most wide open door to use.
I assure you ... Both true believers and professing believers can have devil's..
But..Jesus came to set us free and destroy the enemies work .
But he gave US the authority and the directive..“drive out devils“ ...why? Because they are there to be driven out.
The picture in exodus is that the entire nation had to be delivered from the enemy..AFTER the blood of the lamb on the door posts and AFTER going out..And many enemies after that.

I should add..they do Not wait untill after baptism ..they mostly drive out devil's before..but in a lot of cases ones previously unreavealed or stubborn .. Manifest after water baptism while laying on of hands for the baptism of the Holy Spirit ..the hiding demons cannot handle the presence of God and they manifest...and get driven out.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Bro... Your basing that on a theory ..I don't mean this as a challenge and I don't want a reply affirming or denying.. But have you ever experienced casting a demon out when one has thrown a person to the floor thrashing around screaming..?(consider that question when your presenting doctrinal theories)
Because theory is nice ..doctrinal theory is Also nice.. But when it happens your theories go out the window. Devils are snide cunning lying trespasses.. They don't Ask permission to harass and torment people.they sneak in through unlocked doors of sin pride unforgivness pain hurt wounds lied ocult activity horror...
Sin is thier most wide open door to use.
I assure you ... Both true believers and professing believers can have devil's..
But..Jesus came to set us free and destroy the enemies work .
But he gave US the authority and the directive..“drive out devils“ ...why? Because they are there to be driven out.
The picture in exodus is that the entire nation had to be delivered from the enemy..AFTER the blood of the lamb on the door posts and AFTER going out..And many enemies after that.

I should add..they do Not wait untill after baptism ..they mostly drive out devil's before..but in a lot of cases ones previously unreavealed or stubborn .. Manifest after water baptism while laying on of hands for the baptism of the Holy Spirit ..the hiding demons cannot handle the presence of God and they manifest...and get driven out.

Well if that is your experience then cool. But the movie Torben put out that you showed me and the group I met with along with most YouTube vids they do have the following order: healing, baptism, casting out, Holy Spirit Baptism

That is the order in a lot of their vids. I know as a member you will defend them, and you should, I would if I were part of them, but I am not and I disagree. You keep throwing these "If you were doing it" statements out like it means something. I will not argue with you anymore on the topic it is fruitless and is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

I am merely telling other people of my experiences with the group which although not as extensive as yours I do have experience with them. So I am "qualified" to speak on the topic.

 

[Alithis]

Well if that is your experience then cool. But the movie Torben put out that you showed me and the group I met with along with most YouTube vids they do have the following order: healing, baptism, casting out, Holy Spirit Baptism

That is the order in a lot of their vids. I know as a member you will defend them, and you should, I would if I were part of them, but I am not and I disagree. You keep throwing these "If you were doing it" statements out like it means something. I will not argue with you anymore on the topic it is fruitless and is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

I am merely telling other people of my experiences with the group which although not as extensive as yours I do have experience with them. So I am "qualified" to speak on the topic.

Well your incorrect and misrepresenting what is taught.
And just to clarify ..there is no “members “ of tlr. Its not a denomination to join .it's a decipling movement .
It encourages people to stop following dead traditions and start being disciples of Jesus.
In the movie they show a section with many instances of deliverance ..each case was unique . different order of things happening. After all its not the fault of the person baptizing another in water if the person begins to manifest a demon is it.?

And yes ..making a point about wether youve done it or not is very important .because untill you have you only have theories to go on . experience is a superior teacher

Which would you rather have operating on you.. A Dr who has only read the theory manuel.
Or a DR who was trained by a person who has done the operations many many times. ?!

So much theory goes out the window when the real occurs.

 

[Alithis]

By the way..later this year they will release the second movie...

The last reformation - The life.
It's more astounding then the first.