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The Land Promises Have Ended, the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 17

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by random person, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    Do you believe Ezekiel 37:12-14:

    "Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it, says the LORD.’"

    Ezekiel 39:29:

    Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


    Joel 2:28-32:

    "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls."

    Peter confirms that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the remnant of Israel being raised from the dead occurred on the Day of Pentecost, read Acts 2:15-21, 37-40 (& pay close attention to verse 16):

    For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

    But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

    And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


    And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

    The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    (The remnant spoken of in Joel 2:32!!!!)

    Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


    And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    (The remnant spoken of in Joel 2:32!!!!)


    Gog and Magog was untoward generation of Jews, the synagogue of Satan which Jesus destroyed in 70 A.D. and permanently destroyed the temple forever (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9, 13:20) because its destruction was near. God isn't going to raise a third temple because the messianic temple has been raised and is in heaven.

    Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    Christ already raised the third temple.

    Christ already raised the dead bones on the Day of Pentecost (for a remnant).

    Gog and Magog already met their end in 70 A.D. with the Destruction of Jerusalem.

    Ezekiel's temple is nothing but a motif for the Kingdom of God. Never intended to be a literal temple in Jerusalem. Jesus himself called himself Ezekiel's temple and from him flowed rivers of living waters with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
     
  2. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    I was just saying that the revelation of the 1000 year reign was not known by Peter and Paul...that the revelation of 1000 year reign was revealed by John through Jesus after Peter and Paul had already written letters ...so they don't mention the 1000 year reign because they did not have revelation of Jesus written by John yet
     
  3. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    This is your opinion and I respect it ....but I believe in the literal fulfilment...God does not speak in vain....it will be fulfilled literally....
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If any doctrine requires a theology degree to explain it, or it is a doctrine that comes from men and has an -ism on the end of it, then it is probably not true.

     
  5. riverrat

    riverrat Newbie

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    You mean a doctrine like babarean2ism?
     
  6. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    dfw,
    is literal fulfillment really in question? I thought it was that it had already taken place at some earlier time in Israel's history?

    Otherwise, 'literal' will morph into meaning: "skip all the next events that happen in Israel's history and jump 3000, 2500 or 2000 years to the future." Which is not very literal.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    No.

    I was thinking of Riverratism or Dispensationalism.

    Or, are they the same?
     
  8. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Note that it is Jesus who shows the church in Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, and Revelation 2:26-29, that after his (never fulfilled) 2nd coming, he and the physically resurrected church will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years. For the entire book of Revelation is from Jesus to the church (Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16). Before Revelation, he didn't tell the church about the "thousand years", because he waits to tell the church things until it is ready to hear them, and not before (John 16:12). What is sad is that even after he tells the church things, there can be some in the church who still can't hear them, but choose to reject them and replace them with man-made ideas (cf. 2 Timothy 4:3-4).

    Note that there are at least 8 scriptural reasons to read the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6 as not beginning until after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7-21.

    First, this is in accord with how the rest of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are in chronological order, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

    Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

    -

    Second, the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:2-6 is when Satan will be literally bound with a chain, and cast into and locked within the literal bottomless pit, while currently he is walking about freely on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet. But their beginning after Jesus' 2nd coming makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    Third, during the 1,000 years, Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 20:3), while currently he is able to deceive the world (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:3,14,15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:14, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet.

    Fourth, the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 is in chronological accord with the immediately preceding defeat of the Antichrist (the individual man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet, and the world's armies, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21). Indeed, there is no chapter break between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in the original Greek manuscripts, so that Revelation 19:19 to 20:3 can be taken together as a unit, showing how every power of evil will be defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming.

    Fifth, reading Revelation 20:4-6 as Jesus and the bodily resurrected church reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches Jesus reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming in Zechariah 14:3-21. For Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth, because it refers to a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21), while there will be no temple building in New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 21:22). Also, Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth because it refers to surviving, unsaved people from the present earth being forced to come up to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), while by the time of the new earth, all the unsaved people from the present earth will have already been cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15 to 21:8).

    Sixth, reading the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches other verses which show that the physical resurrection of the church will occur at the 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

    Seventh, reading the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:5, which must refer in its entirety to only physical resurrection. For not every dead person is going to be figuratively resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15). And Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years.

    Eighth, reading the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:4, which shows that the people in the 1st resurrection will include those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark on their hand or forehead. This refers back to the details of Revelation 13:4-18, which have never been fulfilled. So the 1st resurrection can't have happened yet. But its occurring at Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will defeat the Antichrist, makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:20 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9).
     
  9. mxyzpt1k

    mxyzpt1k Newbie

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    [​IMG]

    EDIT: It would fit the chronological conclusion of Nostradamus, that he is also referencing a place where Aaron is judged for its repentance or when the Land Promise is made, that has been used before like Moses and the Ararat Mountain or Noah and the Ararat Mountain, in reference to the dual maps that also appear to be used or appear very similar below the other two pillars. With Roswell in the Center, and the Mountain Terrain above, so rotating the map about 90 degrees to your right.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  10. mxyzpt1k

    mxyzpt1k Newbie

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    Lost Plate: Flood of Moses

    [​IMG]
    (map from biblesearchers.***/ancients/noah/noah5)

    Nostradamus Lost Plate 23 at first glance appears to have: (Left to Right) Jesus, Peter and Paul. But if we look more closely, we have a map below the central figure, which is a relative map of the terrain where the Ark Landed, and we know the Ark landed on number 15 in the small map, which is Mount Ararat. ... ... Nostradamus has in view the end of days, so we can conclude this is a picture of the Antichrist, as arguable Moses received the Ten Commandments also on Mount Ararat, and as revelation states, Mankind Sings the Song of Moses, at some point. Literally True:

    II PETER 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    II PETER 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    ...................
    "Fire over takes the Day" or "Star Wormwood in Revelations". To apply this equation literally. Lets make a year of 1000 Days, and then lets make a 1000 years of 1000 Days each, and see what we arrive at:

    1. 1000 Days / 365.224 Days in a year = 2.738 Years
    2. 1000 Years X 2.738 Years
    3. 2738 Years or 2738 B.C.

    2800 B.C. the Exodus of the Aliens
    If God's creation of Mankind, some refer to as the "Missing Link", because God imposed man into creation. Then at 3000 B.C. God Created Abraham, and this corresponds to the Sumerian, Egyptian, and Mayan, creation accounts and rulers which they date themselves to around 3000 B.C. ... ... Then the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by Fire, the gospel cohorts to about 2800 B.C. to 2700 B.C. ... ... Then Nostradamus is literally applying a parable, that is designed to described the Antichrist who is associated with the "Fire of Star Wormwood".

    A Possible Association:


    II PETER 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    JOSHUA 18:11 And the lot of the tribe of the children of Benjamin came up according to their families: and the coast of their lot came forth between the children of Judah and the children of Joseph.
    ......................
    We can substitute the Names of Tribes for "Thousand Years", since this is a spiritual reference. More on point. Joseph is introduced to the Accounting of the Tribes in revelations, at the same time the Antichrist is given power. This has not taken place before in the Gospel, and the Antichrist is described as an "Angel of the Bottomless Pit" or a Thing. Then we could simply say, Benjamin is the tribe of the Lord, and Judah is the remnant that is judged in revelations during the 150 day reign of the antichrist.

    So instead of Paul, Peter and Christ in Nostradamus Lost Plate, we can say, a representative of Judah, a representative of Benjamin (in center), and a representative of Joseph (the Thing). ... ... ... So we know these representative have collaborated or at least God has intended them to ... ... some say that harold camping was the antichrist because the world received his endtime date of May 21, 2011, but we don't know for sure.
     
  11. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Of course, you were not thinking Post-TribulationISM.

    And of course, you will now think Danoism :D
     
  12. riverrat

    riverrat Newbie

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    Would it make a difference?
     
  13. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    I know you may believe that the events of Ezekiel are already fulfilled spiritually inter ....but what if it was not fulfilled as your were taught?..is it really too inconceivable that those events cannot ever take place?....what you think ?....it can happen no?....
     
  14. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Jesus did say he was the temple they were expecting (and there is nothing 'wrong' with other spiritual meanings), but I was referring to other events those prophets mention which come to pass in a century or two. It's not as though everything we read there has to be about us and our generation.
     
  15. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    If the details we have do not show a full completion as foretold then yes it must G either about us or future. The only other viable option is that the details of events were left out or lost creating a situation were we can not G expected at this present time say it was fulfilled on "x" time since we know that a prophecy given happens 100% as indicated not 99.8%. If their is something missing in a prophecy to show full completion it either is unfinished or not from the mouth of God, we should not go plugging in random things,thoughts,scenarios just to say yep completed. When the time is meant it will unfold exactly as foretold, can't rush a patient Father.
     
  16. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    I don't believe the prophecies are about us nor our generation....too many events and time must pass first before the return of Jesus...the false messianic age has not even started yet...no one ruling in Israel yet...no 10 kingdoms yet....Babylon is not rebuild yet....all those must take place first before the final antichrist comes on the scene....and wrath of God is poured..

    .when the final antichrist is ended and the 10 kingdoms put down .... then the temple will be rebuilt when Jesus returns

    Jesus is not the temple of Ezekiel ...the dimensions are off....:)...nor did he ever say that the temple of Ezekiel was being build by him......

    Which prophecies came to pass a century or two that you are referring to?....
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  17. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    I believe this has yet to be fulfilled ...literally

    Does gods spirit reside with Israel in Ezekiel temple as before?....no...so then this is yet to be fulfilled....when Jesus returns he will teach all men about God and the truth of the gospel and all will know God ..and love and embrace the new covenant of love.

    With so many false doctrines in the world....God still hides his face from us...

    A better time awaits us...a time of joy and peace and love when government is put down and Jesus rules the world and there will be plenty no starvation no hunger nor sickness nor disease....nor death...


    Unfulfilled....yes the pour of the spirit early rain took place.....but another one is coming for Israel...an even greater one....this time Israel will accept the messiah and come to terms with the new covenant....and let go of the old covenant....they will not desire to judge and condemn....they will seek love forgiveness peace mercy truth justice...they will help the poor ...they will surrender their hearts and become one with God in purpose and plan....and the world will benefit.....because the king will be ruling from Israel...all will bow and love him....




    This is the future ....yet to be fulfilled



    no that's not correct...Israel is going to receive a man who comes in his own name who will be hailed as the messiah...who will rebuild the temple ...that temple must be destroyed.....that false messianic age must come to an end....it's the end of those adherents of the old law ...

    I'm sorry but the synagogue of Satan will rise it's ugly head one last time my friend...

    You are correct there is a temple in heaven

    But there will be a temple on earth ...you are mistaken by making two different temples into one....Jesus body is not Ezekiel temple....one is an actual building...the other is Jesus body that Jesus was referring too....Jesus will yet build the temple of Ezekiel..understand?


    Moses David and all that have been slain will appear on the earth as well as all who have died since the birth of Christianity will rise and walk on the earth again and live again.....not happen yet bro...those that are his....those that have thier names written in the lambs book of life...those that have accepted the new covenant will rise again...

    Gog and magog will rise it's ugly head again....bro until all the kingdoms of this evil world is put down ..nothing is impossible for them...they must be put down...only God can accomplish this ...through Jesus and his holy spirit with the host of heaven behind him
     
  18. mxyzpt1k

    mxyzpt1k Newbie

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    1. From Jesus came "Water and Darkness" (John 19:34 and Luke 23:44)
    2. From the Holy Spirit comes "Fire and Darkness" (Jude 1:6-7) (Star Wormwood in Rev.)

    The New Testament makes the distinction, Ezekiel's Temple which is Spiritually the Body of Christ (Faith), cannot be, The Descending Temple of Revelations 21 which is a Literal Temple (Star Wormwood).

    Yes ... The Apostle Paul uses the "Thousand Years" as a spiritual parable for the 150 Day Period in which the Antichrist Reigns over Judah, which is judged exclusively during this period according to Rev. 5:5.

    ACTS 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see [you], and to speak with [you]: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
    ACTS 28:21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.

    Antichrist ... who does judge Judah or Judea for 5 months (according to Rev.5:5), is not judging with the "KEY OF DAVID" according to Rev., the Antichrist is judging with the "KEY OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT" according to Rev.

    The Prophecy of Jude (No Water from the Lamb, instead Fire)
    JUDE 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    JUDE 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    [​IMG]


    The "M" Figure under the Hand coming from the "3 Days of Darkness" or Bushes represents the pattern observed be Venus Transit. One in which the Apostle Paul would of observed in his life time around 60 A.D., and also one we've observed in 2012 A.D.

    Now the figure below the person with the crown, and Aaron was given the title "Head of the Priesthood" before the Antichrist. Does identify with Roswell. the small curvy "M" design is here, .meetup.***/Adventurous-Ya-Yas-of-Georgia/files/ .......... "City of Roswell" .... click on "Vickery Creek Trail Map With YaYa Route 001" ... now in physical "Roswell New Mexico" Roswell itself is surrounding by a series of patches of bushes or greenery, indicating the series of marks surrounding the "curvy M" in the diagram. Where Aaron's Separtist Inheritance* must be witness by Joseph, or in the least with this redemption of the 185,000 can be included with Judah.
     
  19. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    Please reread Acts 2:16 where Peter says "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

    God already poured out His spirit on the house of Israel and furthermore, according to Joel 2:32, God only promised to save a remnant of ethnic Israel.

    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

    See the blue above. Where have we seen this before? Oh right, Romans 11:26-27:

    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



    When are you dispensationalists and Christian Zionists going to realize that there is no Jew or Gentiles anymore (Galatians 3:26-29). But Jews joined the Gentiles in obedience to Christ they came to be the New Temple of God (Ephesians 2:19-22) just as Ezekiel foretold. Ever wondered why Paul quotes Ezekiel 37:26?

    And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Corinthians 6:16

    Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. Ezekiel 37:26





    Magog and Gog are bookended by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, in other words Magog and Gog are placed in the terminal generation between the Day of Pentecost and the Destruction of Jerusalem.

    And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

    I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."

    Please remember Joel 2:32 and Romans 11:26-27, a remnant will be saved but once the second Temple is destroyed, the Old Covenant ceases to exist as per Hebrews 8:13, 10:9, and 13:20.

    When are Christians going to realize there isn't Jews and Gentiles anymore. There is no partition between them anymore in the sight of God. God shows no partiality.

    Furthermore, And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    and again,

    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



    God promised a remnant of the Jews would be saved otherwise under the New Covenant, there is no such thing as a Jew or a Gentile. The partition has been removed.

    But you dispensationalists and Christian Zionists keep on insisting that that partition still exists or will be raised up once again, why?
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    As long as they continue to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament, they will never be able to let go of their manmade doctrine.

    They will continue to say that when it comes to the physical seed of Abraham, Christ has not fulfilled all of the promises.

    I also am not able to understand how they think the Old Covenant is going to be reinstituted with another manmade temple and renewed animal sacrifices.

    The ultimate sacrifice has already been made.

    Are they going to tear the book of Hebrews out of their Bibles or will they just continue to ignore it?

    Some claim it is only meant for the Hebrews.

    If we love the Jewish people we need to tell them the truth.

    Christ is the only way of salvation.

    The Church is not a parenthesis in God's plan, as Lewis Sperry Chafer claimed.

    The Church is the Plan.



     
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