The Land Promises Have Ended, the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 17

[random person]

As long as they continue to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament, they will never be able to let go of their manmade doctrine.

They will continue to say that when it comes to the physical seed of Abraham, Christ has not fulfilled all of the promises.

I also am not able to understand how they think the Old Covenant is going to be reinstituted with another manmade temple and renewed animal sacrifices.

The ultimate sacrifice has already been made.

Are they going to tear the book of Hebrews out of their Bibles or will they just continue to ignore it?

Some claim it is only meant for the Hebrews.

If we love the Jewish people we need to tell them the truth.

Christ is the only way of salvation.

The Church is not a parenthesis in God's plan, as Lewis Sperry Chafer claimed.

The Church is the Plan.

Amen!

The mystery is explained in Ephesians 3:2-12!

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 59:

Please reread Acts 2:16 where Peter says "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Just as when Matthew says "this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias" (Matthew 3:3-4), he means that John the Baptist is the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3, so when Peter says "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16-18) he means that what happened at the Pentecost in Acts 2 began the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32. For just as Joel 2:28-32 prophesied the receiving of the Holy Spirit in the "last days" (Acts 2:16-17), so the disciples had just received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:4). And this happened in the "last days", for they began at Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2). Acts 2:17 continues to be fulfilled today whenever a Christian receives Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Joel 2:30-31 won't be fulfilled until the future tribulation (e.g. Revelation 6:12, Revelation 8:7, Revelation 17:16, Revelation 16:19). And Joel 2:32 won't be ultimately fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2-21).

random person said in post 59:

Where have we seen this before? Oh right, Romans 11:26-27:

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer" (Romans 11:26) refers to Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming, when the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews (Romans 11:28-29) will get saved when they see the physically returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14).

random person said in post 59:

Ever wondered why Paul quotes Ezekiel 37:26?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Corinthians 6:16

2 Corinthians 6:16b refers to Leviticus 26:11a,12, not Ezekiel 37:26-27. For "walk in them" (2 Corinthians 6:16b) isn't in Ezekiel 37:26-27.

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 59:

. . . once the second Temple is destroyed, the Old Covenant ceases to exist . . .

Note that the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

random person said in post 59:

. . . once the second Temple is destroyed, the Old Covenant ceases to exist as per Hebrews 8:13 . . .

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the 6th century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the 1st century AD making of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6), which wouldn't be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32, Romans 7:6), Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction (Hebrews 7:18-19). (Again) This extinction occurred not in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 61:

The mystery is explained in Ephesians 3:2-12!

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Amen.

And Ephesians 3:6 means that believing Gentiles become fellowheirs with believing Israelites, and of the same body as Israel, and partakers of God's promise in Christ made to Israel. For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

 

[riverrat]

Seems that the false doctrine of replacement theology will always be with us.

 

[Interplanner]

Once again B2 has forced a symbol to be a genetic reality. He has no idea what he is looking at. Quoting Mt 21 and James 1 about which genetic tribe he is from is totally worthless.

 

[toLiJC]

The Land Promises Have Ended, the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 17

it is about circumcision not in body, but in spirit, because there is a difference between the human body and the "flesh" as it is shown in Galatians 5th chapter, the human body is the temple of God and must not be defiled/ruined(1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:19, 2 Corinthians 6:16), while the aforementioned "flesh" is the satanic spirit that works in/by the relevant human mind, or in other words, the satanic area of the mind of the relevant affected human

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew(i.e. a true believer/righteous man) who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision(i.e. a true faith/righteousness) which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew(i.e. a true believer/righteous man) who is one inwardly, and circumcision(i.e. true faith/righteousness) is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God."

otherwise, if the circumcision of Abraham was just in the physical body, he would not have been righteous, but as it is written, even the Saints of the New Testament confirmed He was/is righteous (Romans 4:7-13)

Blessings

 

[Bible2]

riverrat said in post 65:

Seems that the false doctrine of replacement theology will always be with us.

Note that even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which also includes the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

Also, immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

 

[Bible2]

toLiJC said in post 67:

it is about circumcision not in body, but in spirit, because there is a difference between the human body and the "flesh" as it is shown in Galatians 5th chapter, the human body is the temple of God and must not be defiled/ruined(1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:19, 2 Corinthians 6:16), while the aforementioned "flesh" is the satanic spirit that works in/by the relevant human mind, or in other words, the satanic area of the mind of the relevant affected human

That's right.

For Abraham received outward circumcision merely as a sign of his inward righteousness by conscious faith in YHWH God (Romans 4:11), just as on the opposing side of Satan, the future mark of the beast (if it is willingly received) will serve as an outward sign that someone is a conscious worshipper of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his speaking image (Revelation 13:4-18).

 

[riverrat]

Note that even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which also includes the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

Also, immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

I say again. Replacement theology is a false doctrine!

 

[BABerean2]

I say again. Replacement theology is a false doctrine!

Since there is no such thing as replacement theology, your argument is nonsense.

In Romans chapter 11 the Gentiles were grafted into the Olive Tree of those faithful Jews who had accepted Christ as their Messiah.

When the wild olive branches were grafted into the trunk and root of the cultivated Olive Tree, the original Olive Tree was not replaced.

The unbelieving Jews were the branches broken off, who can only be grafted back into the Olive Tree by faith in Christ.

The original Olive Tree has been there the whole time.

Therefore, your ranting about "Replacement Theology" is just one more false narrative produced by the Darbyite doctrine.


Also, you may want to post some scripture to prove your viewpoint rather than being like Scrooge and saying, "Ba Humbug" on a regular basis.




Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


.

 

[riverrat]

I get a kick out of reading BABerean2ism.

An, by the way, BA HUMBUG!

 

[BABerean2]

I get a kick out of reading BABerean2ism.

An, by the way, BA HUMBUG!

Your careful, intellectual, exegesis of Charles Dickens is a tremendous benefit to theologians worldwide.

 

[Danoh]

Your careful, intellectual, exegesis of Charles Dickens is a tremendous benefit to theologians worldwide.

Must be some new spiritual ethnicity, this "Be A Book-based two-rean."

How you call yourself that when you very well know you got yours and continue to get yours out of books poorly researched by both their writers and their readers is one sad case to continue behold...

Wow, from a little levean to the whole mold.

How ever will we rescue you from that road.

However did you buy into your load; one under which you so easily fall when faced with opposition.

We'll just have to allow you to continue belieiving you are Romans two's circumcision.

In this, a prayer for you,
A prayer for you, BAB2...

 

[riverrat]

Must be some new spiritual ethnicity, this "Be A Book-based two-rean."

How you call yourself that when you very well know you got yours and continue to get yours out of books poorly researched by both their writers and their readers is one sad case to continue behold...

Wow, from a little levean to the whole mold.

How ever will we rescue you from that road.

However did you buy into your load; one under which you so easily fall when faced with opposition.

We'll just have to allow you to continue belieiving you are Romans two's circumcision.

In this, a prayer for you,
A prayer for you, BAB2...

Yes, BABerean2ism comes from books but don't forget those you-tube videos.

 

[Interplanner]

All of Rom 9-11 (and 3:3) say that the olive tree has been there the whole time. It is also the remant or the elect or us or those of faith.

 

[random person]

Seems that the false doctrine of replacement theology will always be with us.

False doctrine?

Do you agree with the statement that there is no Jews anymore and there is no Gentiles anymore? Read Galatians 3:28.

Do you agree with the statement that there is no partition (mesotoichon - a dividing wall) between Jews and Gentiles anymore? Read Ephesians 2:14.

Once you realize the answers, it is you that is proposing the false doctrine of replacement theology.

Keep raising that dividing wall and tearing down the mystery of Christ, dispensationalist, and keep tearing down the tabernacle of David by which ALL Gentiles are called.

 

[Straightshot]

The Lord's promises never end once made

 

[riverrat]

False doctrine?

Do you agree with the statement that there is no Jews anymore and there is no Gentiles anymore? Read Galatians 3:28.

Do you agree with the statement that there is no partition (mesotoichon - a dividing wall) between Jews and Gentiles anymore? Read Ephesians 2:14.

Once you realize the answers, it is you that is proposing the false doctrine of replacement theology.

Keep raising that dividing wall and tearing down the mystery of Christ, dispensationalist, and keep tearing down the tabernacle of David by which ALL Gentiles are called.

LOL. You obviously do not even know what replacement theology is.

 

[Straightshot]

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13: 8-9; 14; Romans 11]