The Land Promises Have Ended, the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 17

[BABerean2]

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13: 8-9; 14; Romans 11]

Did Christ fulfill the promises at the Cross or not?

Joh_17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.



Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


What is left for Christ to fulfill?

 

[random person]

LOL. You obviously do not even know what replacement theology is.

Read my sig. Read Genesis 17:14 than read Colossians 3:11.

There is no Jews. There is no circumcision. What more can be said?

God already poured out His Spirit upon Israel, read Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:16 (the Day of Pentecost is "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" ). Now look back at verse 32 of Joel:

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call

Whom shall the Lord deliver?

And whom shall the Lord call?*

* A clue: Read Romans 11:1-5,16-26. Jesus saved a Jewish remnant then, and saves a Jewish remnant now.

But wait, remember, there is no Jews nor Gentiles anymore. There is no circumcision nor uncircumcision. Now it all makes sense -- ALL of Israel is saved because Israel is no longer constrained to Jewish identity and circumcision alone. Under the New Covenant, Gentiles and Jews both have obtained not only salvation but also equality. Israel is no longer narrowly identified with Jews and circumcision alone. But Gentiles are now heirs of Abraham too (Galatians 3:29). And whom also was a heir of Abraham? Why his own grandson, Jacob/Israel was.

What about all Jews besides the Christian/Messianic Jews? Well...

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 77:

Do you agree with the statement that there is no Jews anymore and there is no Gentiles anymore? Read Galatians 3:28.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).

Note that in Galatians 3:28, Paul can't possibly mean that there are no believers who are Jews or Gentiles in any sense, because elsewhere he shows, for example, that believers remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b). Similarly, Galatians 3:28 doesn't mean that there are no believers who are males or females in any sense, for clearly we are still males or females with regard to our genitals, and with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16; 1 Peter 3:7a).

So Galatians 3:28 can only mean that there is no distinction between believing Jews and Gentiles, or between believing males and females, with regard to them being "one in Christ" (Galatians 3:28b), in the sense of them being one body in Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6), without distinction with regard to their salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Peter 3:7b).

random person said in post 77:

Do you agree with the statement that there is no partition (mesotoichon - a dividing wall) between Jews and Gentiles anymore? Read Ephesians 2:14.

Yes.

For Ephesians 2:12-19 means that believing genetic Gentiles aren't strangers to Israel, but are fellowcitizens in Israel along with believing genetic Jews. See also Ephesians 3:6.

random person said in post 77:

Keep raising that dividing wall and tearing down the mystery of Christ, dispensationalist, and keep tearing down the tabernacle of David by which ALL Gentiles are called.

Regarding "the tabernacle of David", are you thinking of Acts 15:14-17?

If so, note that Acts 15:14-17 doesn't say or mean that Amos 9:11-12 is "fulfilled", only that the basic principle of the salvation of Gentiles "agrees" (Greek "sumphoneo": G4856) with the idea of Amos 9:11-12, and only as it was understood by the (fallible) individual quoted in Acts 15:14-17. A different way of understanding Amos 9:11-12 is by looking at the original Hebrew: Amos 9:11-12 can mean that the house of David will be restored to power and will possess Edom (present-day southern Jordan) and all other nations. This will be fulfilled during the coming millennium, which won't occur until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Jesus is of the house of David (Luke 1:69, Matthew 1:1), and so at his return, he will restore the house of David to power by sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7, Isaiah 16:5) and ruling the earth (Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11).

 

[Bible2]

Straightshot said in post 78:

The Lord's promises never end once made

Note that all those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, are spiritually Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29). And Abraham's seed is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b), but also the Gentiles in the church, are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7,8,24), as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28), and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

Also, if even those who are "strangers" in Israel can inherit the land of Israel (Ezekiel 47:21-23), then certainly believing Gentiles, who are "no more strangers" to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), will inherit the land of Israel during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6. And they will inherit the land and all the other promises given to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:29, Genesis 12:7) along with all the elect Jews who have ever been saved in the past or who will get saved in our future, including at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

--

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30 . . .

Regarding Jeremiah 30, the time of Jacob's trouble which he will be saved out of (Jeremiah 30:7) won't be the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but only the final pillaging of the Jews in Jerusalem at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns and saves them (Zechariah 14:2-5). The church, including both Jewish and Gentile believers (Revelation 7:9,14), will be in the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6).

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37 . . .

Regarding Jeremiah 31:31-37, note that the New Covenant is already fulfilled, even though the prior, millennial prophecy of Jeremiah 31:1-14,16-25 (Jeremiah 31:15 was fulfilled in the 1st century AD: Matthew 2:17-18) and the other millennial prophecies haven't yet been fulfilled. For the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as its being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of believers (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36 . . .

Regarding Ezekiel 36, Ezekiel chapters 36-37 could refer to a restoration of the Jews to their land during the future millennium.

On the other hand, the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just a Jesus' cursing of the literal, fruitless fig tree (Matthew 21:19) foreshadowed his curse on the part of Old Covenant Israel which rejected him (Matthew 21:43), for a fig tree can represent Israel (Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9). The Israel which was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel which Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[Bible2]

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39 . . .

Regarding Ezekiel chapters 38-39, note that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That is why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least 2 major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5 . . .

Regarding Micah 5, in verse 5, "the Assyrian shall come into our land" could refer to when the Antichrist and his world armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-4, Daniel 11:45) and Jesus' defeat of the Antichrist (Isaiah 30:30-33, Revelation 19:20). The subsequent successful fighting by the Jews in Zechariah 14:14 and Zechariah 12:6-8 could include what Micah 5:5b-6a is referring to.

The ancient Assyrian empire included Lebanon, and the Antichrist could have Assyrian blood in him.

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12 . . .

Regarding Zechariah 12, verses 1-9 will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:11-21), just as Zechariah 12:10-14 will happen at the 2nd coming (Romans 11:26). A few years before the 2nd coming, Israel could be completely defeated and occupied during the horrible, future war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17.

Zechariah 12:10-14, like Romans 11:25-29, won't be fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming, when the unsaved elect Jews will see the physically returned Jesus in person ("they shall look upon me whom they have pierced") and believe in him and be saved (Romans 11:26-29).

Straightshot said in post 80:

And the Lord still holds His promises made to His national people of Israel .... for His purposes [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13:8-9; 14 . . .

Regarding Zechariah 14, it is about Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5b; 1 Thessalonians 3:13b), and about the subsequent millennium, when he will reign on the earth from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:8-21, Micah 4:1-4). Zechariah 14:3 refers to the 2nd-coming battle of Revelation 19:19-21. And Zechariah 14:4 shows that at his 2nd coming, Jesus will physically land on the Mount of Olives, just as at the end of his first coming, he physically ascended from the Mount of Olives. Acts 1:11-12 says that Jesus will return in like manner as he left.

Before Jesus returns, at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 the world's armies will gather together at a staging area at Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo, Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). They will then move south and pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-5, Revelation 19:19-21). Jesus will then remain on the earth as King (Zechariah 14:9), and the unsaved people left alive on the earth (Matthew 24:40) will be forced to come up to Jerusalem and worship him annually (Zechariah 14:16-19). Jesus and the physically resurrected church will rule the unsaved survivors of the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, Zechariah 12:2-14 refers to the same future time as Zechariah 14.

Also, Zechariah 14:5a isn't referring (as is sometimes claimed) to the fleeing of people in the church into the mountains, the wilderness (as in Matthew 24:15-16 and Revelation 12:6,14), at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. Instead, Zechariah 14:5a is referring to only a post-tribulation, 2nd-coming fleeing of surviving unsaved elect Jews in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-5), who will become believers and get saved when they see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

They could have survived the Antichrist's preceding reign because they were either in hiding or under the protection of the 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3,5).

 

[riverrat]

Read my sig. Read Genesis 17:14 than read Colossians 3:11.

There is no Jews. There is no circumcision. What more can be said?

God already poured out His Spirit upon Israel, read Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:16 (the Day of Pentecost is "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" ). Now look back at verse 32 of Joel:

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call

Whom shall the Lord deliver?

And whom shall the Lord call?*

* A clue: Read Romans 11:1-5,16-26. Jesus saved a Jewish remnant then, and saves a Jewish remnant now.

But wait, remember, there is no Jews nor Gentiles anymore. There is no circumcision nor uncircumcision. Now it all makes sense -- ALL of Israel is saved because Israel is no longer constrained to Jewish identity and circumcision alone. Under the New Covenant, Gentiles and Jews both have obtained not only salvation but also equality. Israel is no longer narrowly identified with Jews and circumcision alone. But Gentiles are now heirs of Abraham too (Galatians 3:29). And whom also was a heir of Abraham? Why his own grandson, Jacob/Israel was.

What about all Jews besides the Christian/Messianic Jews? Well...

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Jeremiah and Ezekiel disagree with you.

 

[Straightshot]

"Did Christ fulfill the promises at the Cross or not?"


You should be able to answer your own question .... which is obviously a loaded one

For Israel as a national entity .... no

He was rejected by the same and has delayed His encounter with Israel which is still pending

You should know that Israel is still in blindness even today and does not recognize Him as Messiah and King

This status is going to change during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation

The events of the future 70th week decreed is specifically scheduled for His national people and has nothing to do with today's "church"

.... and the "church", composed of mostly Gentiles and a few of Israel, has not become the same as you seem to think

All of the prophets are very clear about this issue and the only way for one like yourself to think otherwise is to make metaphorical mush out of their revealings .... this is a typical preteristic view that includes a replacement theology dogma

Neither has any biblical moorings and can only be supported by reinterpreting literal scripture to hyper allegory and to discount any future dealings that the Lord has with His national people of Israel

 

[BABerean2]

Did Christ fulfill the promises at the Cross or not?


You should be able to answer your own question

For Israel as a national entity .... no
He was rejected by the same and has delayed His encounter with Israel which is still pending

You should know that Israel is still in blindness even today and does not recognize Him as Messiah and King

This status is going to change during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation

The events of the future 70th week decreed is specifically scheduled for His national people and has nothing to do with today's "church"

.... and the "church", composed of mostly Gentiles and a few of Israel, has not become the same as you seem to think

All of the prophets are very clear about this issue and the only way for one like yourself to think otherwise is to make metaphorical mush out of their revealings .... this is a typical preteristic view that includes a replacement theology dogma

Neither has any biblical moorings and can only be supported by reinterpreting literal scripture to hyper allegory and to discount any future dealings that the Lord has with His national people of Israel

If you are disagreeing with the words of Christ on the Cross, that it is finished, you would be the one making mush out of God's Word.

Salvation has always been on an individual basis through faith.

Dispensationalists claim future national salvation for Israel and then also claim that only a remnant will be saved.

Somehow, they are not able to see that their manmade doctrine is a contradiction in and of itself.

 

[Straightshot]

The Lord's demonstration on the cross and His salvation reaches across the spectrum of human existence ... past, present, and future until this [Revelation 20:11-15]

You are excluding the inclusion of a future national believing mortal remnant of Israel that the Lord intends to save for His purposes ...on His schedule

And to these He will restore the kingdom over which He will personally rule [Isaiah 11; Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Joel 2; 3; Micah 4:5; Zechariah 12; 13:8-9; 14; Matthew 24; Luke 21:30-36; Romans 11; Acts 1:6; Revelation 12]

Your "dispensational" "Darby/MacDonnald" ruse is old and moldly ... a total hoax contrived by unregenerate false teachers that claim to be "Christian"

So you will never convince me otherwise

I would suggest that you find others on the forum who will entertain you

 

[random person]

Jeremiah and Ezekiel disagree with you.

No they don't.

and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:2

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:22

 

[random person]

Dispensationalists claim future national salvation for Israel and then also claim that only a remnant will be saved.

Somehow, they are not able to see that their manmade doctrine is a contradiction in and of itself.

Indeed. This man speaks truth.

Dispensationalists believe national Israel has to relive the events of A.D. 70 (coincidently, this is the true event that brought salvation to Revelation's 144,000 firstfruits remnant) all over again in order just to save yet another --- lastfruits remnant?!?!?!?!?

Like a dog chasing its own tail. Over and over and over.

 

[Straightshot]

The explanation above is one of preterism/replacement theology

Luke 21:20-36 is an example of this error with an attempt to fit the passage into the scope of 70 AD [which is not even in the prophetic scriptures]

The attempted fitting requires a number of the events in the passage have obviously never taken place on the earth and these things must be explained a way by discounting the scope, and by committing them to allegory

This same methodology is applied to many of the unfulfilled visions of the Bible prophets in order to force fit the preterist's preconceived dogmas

... and the preterist cuts off their own appendage and chases the wind

 

[random person]

The explanation above is one of preterism/replacement theology

Luke 21:20-36 is an example of this error with an attempt to fit the passage into the scope of 70 AD [which is not even in the prophetic scriptures]

The attempted fitting requires a number of the events in the passage have obviously never taken place on the earth and these things must be explained a way by discounting the scope, and by committing them to allegory

This same methodology is applied to many of the unfulfilled visions of the Bible prophets in order to force fit the preterist's preconceived dogmas

... and the preterist cuts off their own appendage and chases the wind

Have you ever compared Genesis 17:14, Exodus 4:24-26, & Joshua 5:2-9 with Colossians 3:11?

 

[Straightshot]

Have you ever read the following? [Isaiah 11; Ezekiel 36; Micah 5]

The Lord is quite clear about His literal dealings with His nation of Israel, past .... and future

Your comparison question is only part of the equation

He will not retract His promises to Israel as you have suggested

 

[random person]

Have you ever read the following? [Isaiah 11; Ezekiel 36; Micah 5]

The Lord is quite clear about His literal dealings with His nation of Israel, past .... and future

Your comparison question is only part of the equation

He will not retract His promises to Israel as you have suggested

It is an Israel where there is no Jews, there is no Gentiles, there is no circumcision, there is no uncircumcision...

It is an Israel wherewith unfaithful Jewish branches are trimmed off in order that faithful wild Gentiles branches may be grafted on...

It is an Israel wherewith there is no dividing wall between Gentiles and Jews...

It is an Israel wherewith Gentiles are heirs of Abraham...

It is an Israel wherewith only spiritual circumcision, that of the heart, counts...

It is an Israel wherewith Gentiles are fellowheirs, Gentiles are of the same body, and Gentiles are partakers of his promise...

It is an Israel wherewith a new creature inhabits...

 

[Straightshot]

Like I have said you fail to differentiate between the nation of Israel and the "church" as the scriptures clearly do

And the Lord Himself is a "Jew" by His own humanity, and still is .... not a Gentile [Revelation 5:5]

.... He is not a white Anglo Saxon cowboy as some of the professing "church" assume

The entire Bible is structured out of and focused upon a Middle Eastern cultural setting, not those of western Gentile culture who have hijacked Israel's central position in scripture

And the setting of Israel as a nation is continuous throughout the scriptures, past, present, and future

The in gathering of the Gentiles of the nations is still on going, but the ending of this dispensation of grace is coming as the world approaches the end of this present age which is near

Then the unfulfilled events prophecies related to national Israel will roll .... all of them exactly as written with 100% accuracy

There is a reason why a remnant of Israel has been drawn to the land today .... to experience the coming 70th week decreed for the nation .... the time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30]

This pressuring will result in a remnant part turning to their Messiah and King, and the balance will be killed in the process and lost forever

 

[Bible2]

Straightshot said in post 96:

. . . the ending of this dispensation of grace is coming as the world approaches the end of this present age which is near

Regarding the present age (world) ending, note that nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come won't also be an age of grace or a church age.

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).

 

[random person]

Like I have said you fail to differentiate between the nation of Israel and the "church" as the scriptures clearly do

And the Lord Himself is a "Jew" by His own humanity, and still is .... not a Gentile [Revelation 5:5]

.... He is not a white Anglo Saxon cowboy as some of the professing "church" assume

The entire Bible is structured out of and focused upon a Middle Eastern cultural setting, not those of western Gentile culture who have hijacked Israel's central position in scripture

And the setting of Israel as a nation is continuous throughout the scriptures, past, present, and future

The in gathering of the Gentiles of the nations is still on going, but the ending of this dispensation of grace is coming as the world approaches the end of this present age which is near

Then the unfulfilled events prophecies related to national Israel will roll .... all of them exactly as written with 100% accuracy

There is a reason why a remnant of Israel has been drawn to the land today .... to experience the coming 70th week decreed for the nation .... the time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30]

Jacob's trouble already occurred, Jerusalem A.D. 70.

This pressuring will result in a remnant part turning to their Messiah and King, and the balance will be killed in the process and lost forever

So its destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 all over again? Why?

A Jewish remnant were saved then while others were slain and taken captive by the Romans (Luke 21:24). Why must we relive this cataclysmic catastrophe all over again like a bad re-run when the Old Covenant and the Temple already met its final end (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9) back then.

 

[Straightshot]

"So its destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 all over again? Why?"


70 AD was not the time of the end still pending .... and not recorded in the scope of any Bible prophet .... even the Lord tells the same about many events that never took place in 70 AD .... but they will, exactly recorded with 100% accuracy

The 70 weeks of years [490] decreed for Israel ceased lapsing at the Lord's cutting off .... and the balance of the 70th week is still pending as we speak

No significant earthly event can be found in the visions of any prophet over the last 2000 years ... not one

The balance of the unfulfilled events recorded in the visions are all pending for the coming 70th week decreed

Why? .... because this is the way the Lord has scheduled the ending prophetic events for the consummation of this present dispensation of His grace

If you do not understand His planned delay for these things, and that Israel is a continuing separate ethnic nation throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation .... you will never arrive at a correct rendering of the prophetic scriptures

.... and "Jacob's trouble" has not already occurred which is obvious in the following [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37] .... there are many other scriptures that attest to this fact

 

[BABerean2]

Like I have said you fail to differentiate between the nation of Israel and the "church" as the scriptures clearly do

And the Lord Himself is a "Jew" by His own humanity, and still is .... not a Gentile [Revelation 5:5]

.... He is not a white Anglo Saxon cowboy as some of the professing "church" assume

The entire Bible is structured out of and focused upon a Middle Eastern cultural setting, not those of western Gentile culture who have hijacked Israel's central position in scripture

And the setting of Israel as a nation is continuous throughout the scriptures, past, present, and future

The in gathering of the Gentiles of the nations is still on going, but the ending of this dispensation of grace is coming as the world approaches the end of this present age which is near

Then the unfulfilled events prophecies related to national Israel will roll .... all of them exactly as written with 100% accuracy

There is a reason why a remnant of Israel has been drawn to the land today .... to experience the coming 70th week decreed for the nation .... the time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30]

This pressuring will result in a remnant part turning to their Messiah and King, and the balance will be killed in the process and lost forever

If there is no Grace, how are these Jews going to gain salvation through the work of the Cross?


???