The Lake Of Fire

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FineLinen

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"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death." (Rev.2:11)

"Hurt" = verb adikeo = to do wrong, do hurt.

The Lake of Fire flows from our God whose essence is Fire.

The only individual who is NOT hurt by the Lake is the overcomer.

The Lord will destroy anything that is not attuned to Him, the Master tuning fork. Until we vibrate with the tongs of Heaven at-one-ment is not complete.

Tuning fork - Wikipedia
 
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FineLinen

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Nothing has changed as God is Immutable. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God has always saved the few, the remnant compared to the many.

hope this helps !!!

The remnant of Fathers love and grace have always been His focus through the ages. St. Paul describes them as the "especially".

But make no mistake, God is NOT only the Saviour of the especially, He is the Saviour of all/pas mankind!

"Here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, who is the Saviour of all mankind, and especially of believers."

"God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who believe/ trust in Him. Command and teach these things."
 
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Major1

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The fact is, exactly 8 survived, the rest of the disobedient indeed perished.

However:

The Apostle St. Peter declares in no uncertain terms, the rest of the story.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..

What that means is exactly what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23...…...
"Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I have a feeling that when the door to the Ark closed, and the rain began to fall, the entire population of the earth started to call out....."LORD-LORD".
 
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Major1

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"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death." (Rev.2:11)

"Hurt" = verb adikeo = to do wrong, do hurt.

The Lake of Fire flows from our God whose essence is Fire.

The only individual who is NOT hurt by the Lake is the overcomer.

The Lord will destroy anything that is not attuned to Him, the Master tuning fork. Until we vibrate with the tongs of Heaven at-one-ment is not complete.

Tuning fork - Wikipedia

I really can not help but wonder where you get your theology, Oh wait, now I see it......
WIKIPEDIA!!!!

Holy cow Linnen…...have you considered the Bible, the Word of God.

The Essence of God equals His being or substance plus His Attributes. Essence is the being which is attributed to God, since these characteristics are eternally inherent (fundamental, basic, existing as an essential constituent, or characteristic; intrinsic) in Him. Essence means the combined Attributes and none of those is FIRE.

Yes I know you will say ...."God is a consuming fire" in Hebrews &
" For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God." in Deut. 4:24.

"FIRE" is used by Moses and Paul to describe God’s wrath, judgment, holiness or power where they are displayed by fire from heaven but it is not His essence.

If you would simply read Scriptures you would see that Biblical Christianity affirms a God Who is one in essence and three in Persons. If one thinks about God in terms of essence (spirit), one finds analogies may be awkward and unfitting because there is nothing dissimilar about the essence of God in the Persons of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.
 
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Major1

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Dear Lord Jesus: congratulations on your failed mission. You lost nothing in the leftover remnants of fish & bread, but alas, you lose nearly everything of those for whom you have propitiated.

You declared You would draw/drag/impel all mankind unto You, but alas, You tried, but failed miserably?

Time for a new Saviour who succeeds as the Author & Perfector/Archegos & Prodromos?

John 3:16...……...
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The Bible does not support your comment.
 
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Major1

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The fact is, exactly 8 survived, the rest of the disobedient indeed perished.

However:

The Apostle St. Peter declares in no uncertain terms, the rest of the story.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..

You said...…..
"the rest of the disobedient indeed perished."

Perished = they died physically!

Where are they spiritually? In Torments said of Sheol.
 
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FineLinen

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John 3:16...……...
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The Bible does not support your comment.

One of my most favourite words in Canon.

Good grief, I almost forgot verse 17.

Take 2 (two)

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
 
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FineLinen

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You said...…..
"the rest of the disobedient indeed perished."

Perished = they died physically!

Where are they spiritually? In Torments said of Sheol.

You poor dear lad.

The disobedient dead, according to the Scripture, had a wee visit from the resurrected Christ of Glory. That wee visit had outstanding dimensions of zao at work.

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."
 
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FineLinen

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I really can not help but wonder where you get your theology..

The message to the seven (7) churches is found in the Revelation.

In that unfolding there is precisely one segment that is NOT "hurt" by the second death, (the Lake of theion & theioo).

They are called overcomers & only they are not hurt !

These are they who follow the Lamb withersoever He goes!
 
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Der Alte

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What that means is exactly what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23...…...
"Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
I have a feeling that when the door to the Ark closed, and the rain began to fall, the entire population of the earth started to call out....."LORD-LORD".
Them other folks argue that "'I never knew you' doesn't mean that they can't be reconciled later on." What they don't realize is this passage "that day" refers to judgement day. There is no second chance after that. Also Jesus did not say "I don't know you." Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. "Never' doesn't just refer to the past.
 
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FineLinen

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Our God is Fire. He IS the God of salvation. Fire within Him destroys all that is not of Him. At the close of His marvellous work salvation awaits, saved by/ thru the Fire God.

"According to the grace of God that was given to me, as a wise master-builder, a foundation I have laid, and another doth build on [it], for other foundation no one is able to lay except that which is laid, which is Jesus the Christ; and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire."

That which is of the Fire will stand, that which is not must find new alignment in at-one-ment!
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Our God is Fire. He IS the God of salvation. Fire within Him destroys all that is not of Him. At the close of His marvellous work salvation awaits, saved by/ thru the Fire God.
"According to the grace of God that was given to me, as a wise master-builder, a foundation I have laid, and another doth build on [it], for other foundation no one is able to lay except that which is laid, which is Jesus the Christ; and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire."
That which is of the Fire will stand, that which is not must find new alignment in at-one-ment!
So all the unrighteous have to do is live like the devil all their lives, wait until their "works" are burned up and they will saved just like the righteous?
The works in 1 Corinthians 3:13-14 are not ordinary, mundane works of the unsaved but the works of the righteous saved building on the foundation of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 3:11-12
I don't want to be the one telling people they can do anything they want to, live like the devil because they will be saved in the end no matter what.
 
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Major1

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You poor dear lad.

The disobedient dead, according to the Scripture, had a wee visit from the resurrected Christ of Glory. That wee visit had outstanding dimensions of zao at work.

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

Yes they did according to Peter......but nowhere, I mean NOWHERE in Peter's epistle does he say that THOSE IN TORMENTS WHO HEARD CHRIST SPEAK TO THEM WERE SAVED AND REMOVED FROM THE LOF!!!!

John 3:16...……..
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Isn't it strange that Universalists can and do change the meanings of words said by God to make them fit their theology but can not seem to grasp the meaning of...…...
"that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I guess WHOSOEVER THAT BELIEVETH IN HIM" is just too complex to grasp for some people.
 
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Major1

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One of my most favourite words in Canon.

Good grief, I almost forgot verse 17.

Take 2 (two)

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

Then you will really love John 3:18 which follows the 17th verse that you did not post...
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

We can do this all day brother!!!!

My question is and has been......why in the world don't you and tiyr helper and supporter, Steve simply say...….
We are universalists which is NOT a Bible doctrine and is not found in the Bible but it is what we want to see happen and what we believe will happen!!!

You have already admitted 1/2 of that so what not go ahead and admit what it is that you believe.

Then this thread ends immediately!!!
 
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FineLinen

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Yes they did according to Peter......but nowhere, I mean NOWHERE in Peter's epistle does he say that THOSE IN TORMENTS WHO HEARD CHRIST SPEAK TO THEM WERE SAVED AND REMOVED FROM THE LOF!!!!

They were NOT in torments, they were dead (nekros).

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..
 
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Major1

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Our God is Fire. He IS the God of salvation. Fire within Him destroys all that is not of Him. At the close of His marvellous work salvation awaits, saved by/ thru the Fire God.

"According to the grace of God that was given to me, as a wise master-builder, a foundation I have laid, and another doth build on [it], for other foundation no one is able to lay except that which is laid, which is Jesus the Christ; and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire."

That which is of the Fire will stand, that which is not must find new alignment in at-one-ment!

Incorrect...…...again!

The Bible says in 1 John 4:8 -
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Isn't it interesting how often you misunderstand what the Scriptures actually say???

When fire is seen in the Scriptures it is a description of God’s wrath, judgment, holiness or power that are displayed by fire from heaven.

Elisha did not see God on that firey chariot.....He saw the power and majesty of God.
 
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Major1

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They were NOT in torments, they were dead (nekros).

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..

Again...…….your Bible knowledge is letting you down brother because Jesus Himself said in Luke 16:21-23...……….
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

God bless you Linnen!!!
 
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FineLinen

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When fire is seen in the Scriptures it is a description of God’s wrath, judgment, holiness or power that are displayed by fire from heaven.

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” ( Luke 12:49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49-

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3).

And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28:6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord.

For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1:20 works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4:23, 30 & 8: 24,25" and compare 1 Tim. 1:18 by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-
 
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Major1

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The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49-

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3).

And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord.

For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-

Incorrect...…..again!

You said...……...
"The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one."

Really????

What about the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ?????

Was it on fire when He was on it?????

When He was burred, was the grave set on fire?

When He rose from the dead, did the stone roll away because it was on fire?

Linnnen, honestly, I do love you as a brother in Christ, and your opinions and inner thoughts may be a help to you brother, but what you are putting on display for all of us is a long, long way from Bible accuracy and truth.
 
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Major1

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You poor dear lad.

The disobedient dead, according to the Scripture, had a wee visit from the resurrected Christ of Glory. That wee visit had outstanding dimensions of zao at work.

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

I am not poor in any way but I am certainly a DEAR person as you already know!!!
 
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