The Lake Of Fire

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Major1

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Thank the Father of all you & St. Steve finally arrived.

The tag team of Noli-Major came so close to transforming my grasp of the UN (limited) One. (lol)

As you so clearly presented, the subjection of the radical all has one glorious climax, the One who has sworn by Himself.

Will He be successful? Perhaps (with a small p.), the tag team is correct, all does not radically mean all.

Our God has determined in His own mind, and without consultation from any being, that He will have a creation that worships Him in union with His Name!

NOT by perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but "IN/EN" union with His Name.

At-one-ment!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Note on "acknowledge"

eksomologéō from ek, "wholly out from,"

Fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Verse 10

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi).

First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina

Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven.

This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. -Robertson Word Pictures-

gxhjub39te551.jpg

Thank God you feel better!!!!
 
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Major1

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And it doesn't get any clearer than that, in scripture or exposition my brother.

Why do so many not understand that eternal torment represents the victory of hatred over a loving God and of death over a living God?

The god of this age has blinded the minds of so many.

Because the rest of us actually read and believe the Scriptures! IT is just that simple my brother.

You and your friends have made up your own religion because there are NO Scriptures that support the Devil and his demons and the lost of all the ages being saved while in the LOF fire and being removed.

That idea is a dream in your mind. If that is what you choose to believe.....so be it.

But you can not in anyway condemn those who choose to accept the Bible over YOUR made up religion.

You said...…...
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of so many. "

That is 100% correct and actually is exactly what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 4:1...….
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils".
 
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Major1

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Thank the Father of all you & St. Steve finally arrived.

The tag team of Noli-Major came so close to transforming my grasp of the UN (limited) One. (lol)

As you so clearly presented, the subjection of the radical all has one glorious climax, the One who has sworn by Himself.

Will He be successful? Perhaps (with a small p.), the tag team is correct, all does not radically mean all.

Our God has determined in His own mind, and without consultation from any being, that He will have a creation that worships Him in union with His Name!

NOT by perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but "IN/EN" union with His Name.

At-one-ment!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Note on "acknowledge"

eksomologéō from ek, "wholly out from,"

Fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Verse 10

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi).

First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina

Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven.

This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. -Robertson Word Pictures-

gxhjub39te551.jpg

I am really not sure why you continue to argue your point with me.
you have already stated correctly that...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".


I agree totally with you so again, why are we doing this????
 
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Major1

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And it doesn't get any clearer than that, in scripture or exposition my brother.

Why do so many not understand that eternal torment represents the victory of hatred over a loving God and of death over a living God?

The god of this age has blinded the minds of so many.

Your bestest buddy has already sold you out. He has said that----
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".


That is the center of my debate with him, so what is the point???
 
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Do you think that YELLING replaces the truth????????

The truth can never be yelled loudly enough in a world of total falsehood.

Yes.....Jesus Christ is salvation.

Well, he is ultimately not salvation for most ppl, isn't that your position? So maybe better 'a jot or tittle of salvation'.

Matthew 7:21-23 tells us the truth...…..
"Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Yes, and they get CORRECTED in the fire, the old man of sin gets destroyed and the new man the overcomer in Christ emerges purified and repentant. See the nations go into the fire in Rev 20:7-15 and come out in Rev 21:24-26. And for the healing in Rev 22:2. Major case closed.

Therefore......
"Every knee shall bow to me - To bow the knee” is an act expressing homage, submission, or adoration. It means that every person shall acknowledge him as God, and admit his right to universal dominion. The passage in Isaiah refers particularly to the homage which “his own people” should render to him; or rather, it means that all who are saved shall acknowledge “him” as their God and Saviour.

The original reference was not to “all men,” but only to those who should be saved; Isaiah 45:17, Isaiah 45:21-22, Isaiah 45:24. In this sense the apostle uses it; not as denoting that “all men” should confess to God, but that all “Christians,” whether Jewish or Gentile converts, should alike give account to Him.

“They” should all bow before their common God, and acknowledge “his” dominion over them. The passage originally did not refer particularly to the day of judgment, but expressed the truth that all believers should acknowledge his dominion. It is as applicable, however, to the judgment, as to any other act of homage which his people will render.

Haha nice try Major. It's just redundant then lol? God saying 'Whoever wants to swear allegiance.' My that makes him sound gay smh.

No my man, God is restating and revealing the truth of the Abrahamic covenant, which sees its fulfilment in Christ and its consummation in the eschaton.

All the nations blessed, saved and healed.

Why do you want to shrink God's jurisdiction to a few crusty old pharisees?
 
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Major1

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The truth can never be yelled loudly enough in a world of total falsehood.



Well, he is ultimately not salvation for most ppl, isn't that your position? So maybe better 'a jot or tittle of salvation'.



Yes, and they get CORRECTED in the fire, the old man of sin gets destroyed and the new man the overcomer in Christ emerges purified and repentant. See the nations go into the fire in Rev 20:7-15 and come out in Rev 21:24-26. And for the healing in Rev 22:2. Major case closed.



Haha nice try Major. It's just redundant then lol? God saying 'Whoever wants to swear allegiance.' My that makes him sound gay smh.

No my man, God is restating and revealing the truth of the Abrahamic covenant, which sees its fulfilment in Christ and its consummation in the eschaton.

All the nations blessed, saved and healed.

Why do you want to shrink God's jurisdiction to a few crusty old pharisees?

You said...…...
"Well, he is ultimately not salvation for most ppl, isn't that your position? So maybe better 'a jot or tittle of salvation'."

NO sir that is not my position at all. You see the problem here??? We post stuff and you do not grasp what I am saying to you.

I have NO agenda. I have NO position. I have NO theology. I only read and believe what the Bible says and you and your friends do not. THAT is the center of this conversation!

Matthew 7:21-23 is what Jesus Christ, the God-Man said is HIS POSITION.....
"Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 7:13-16,...….
3Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 
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Major1

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The truth can never be yelled loudly enough in a world of total falsehood.



Well, he is ultimately not salvation for most ppl, isn't that your position? So maybe better 'a jot or tittle of salvation'.



Yes, and they get CORRECTED in the fire, the old man of sin gets destroyed and the new man the overcomer in Christ emerges purified and repentant. See the nations go into the fire in Rev 20:7-15 and come out in Rev 21:24-26. And for the healing in Rev 22:2. Major case closed.



Haha nice try Major. It's just redundant then lol? God saying 'Whoever wants to swear allegiance.' My that makes him sound gay smh.

No my man, God is restating and revealing the truth of the Abrahamic covenant, which sees its fulfilment in Christ and its consummation in the eschaton.

All the nations blessed, saved and healed.

Why do you want to shrink God's jurisdiction to a few crusty old pharisees?

You and your friends as universalists argue that, because Christ died for everyone and all the sins of humanity were laid on/punished in Christ, everyone will spend eternity with God.

Scripture, however, stands in opposition to such teaching (which can be traced back to a teacher named Laelius Socinus in the 16th century). The Bible makes it abundantly clear that many people will be lost, with just a few verses highlighting this fact following:

• “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
• “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14)
• “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’” (Matthew 7:22–23)
• “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46)
• “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15)
Will there be more people in heaven or in hell?
More People in Heaven Than in Hell
Billions of People are Going to Hell!
 
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Matthew 7:21-23 is what Jesus Christ, the God-Man said is HIS POSITION.....
"Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

And you say these departing 'workers of iniquity' are the universalists lol?

Matthew 7:13-16,...….
3Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Few find it, only all those narrow-path believers in eternal torment and annihilation. The rest of us, the great unwashed, to the bbq we go.

Have it your own way Major, you can watch me from a safe distance as I then follow the damned, whether as directed or merely out of compassion.
 
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You and your friends as universalists argue that, because Christ died for everyone and all the sins of humanity were laid on/punished in Christ, everyone will spend eternity with God.

Kinda. If it's true that all died in Adam, then so too it must be that all are made alive in Christ.

And if all are made alive in Christ, all must be written in the Lamb's Book of Life. But wait, some are still dead in their sins and transgressions. They need help, Major, major deliverance, old school righteous judgment. That's set them straight, clean them up, get them corrected and flying straight. Then they can come for healing, the water of life and the balm of Gilead.

Scripture, however, stands in opposition to such teaching (which can be traced back to a teacher named Laelius Socinus in the 16th century). The Bible makes it abundantly clear that many people will be lost, with just a few verses highlighting this fact following:

• “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
• “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14)
• “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’” (Matthew 7:22–23)
• “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46)
• “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15)
Will there be more people in heaven or in hell?
More People in Heaven Than in Hell
Billions of People are Going to Hell!

Yes, this disparate collection of alleged 'eternal torment proofs' have been addressed many times here and elsewhere Major.
 
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FineLinen

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All of the is true...….

Major me boy, you can stop with one dot (.)

It is true, as you and your tag team other half demonstrate ad naseum.

Fortunately episkiazo & kataskiazo will more than remedy your limited.
 
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FineLinen

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Which is exactly what I said my brother.

Nope, that is NOT exactly what you said. You & Noli are under the illusion you choose to come to Christ.

Salvation begins in God and ends in God. Broken lost sinners cannot hear anything of the Lord until He opens their deaf ears. Even repentance must be given of Him & is "granted".

The choosing is strictly His!

You did NOT choose Me, I chose.." declares the Master of Reconciliation.
 
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...Yes, and they get CORRECTED in the fire, the old man of sin gets destroyed and the new man the overcomer in Christ emerges purified and repentant. See the nations go into the fire in Rev 20:7-15 and come out in Rev 21:24-26. And for the healing in Rev 22:2. Major case closed....
Absolute nonsense! Same ol', same ol' out-of-context UR proof text.
Rev 22:2 says absolutely nothing about the unrighteous in the LOF being resurrected and healed.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
There are no, zero, none "nations" in the grave or the LOF.
The "nations" which will be healed are those that still exist at the time Rev 22:2 speaks of.
 
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FineLinen

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And it doesn't get any clearer than that, in scripture or exposition my brother.

Why do so many not understand that eternal torment represents the victory of hatred over a loving God and of death over a living God?

The god of this age has blinded the minds of so many.

Dear Shrewd: every age produces those whose awakening occurs by the God of Kataskiazo.

I have a lovely lake I retreat to every day to pray. When one sees the love of fathers (and mothers) for their children, the ghastly idea the Father of all fathers does not exceed this in exceedingly vast proportions has another think coming!
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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You and your friends as universalists argue that, because Christ died for everyone and all the sins of humanity were laid on/punished in Christ, everyone will spend eternity with God.

Scripture, however, stands in opposition to such teaching (which can be traced back to a teacher named Laelius Socinus in the 16th century). The Bible makes it abundantly clear that many people will be lost, with just a few verses highlighting this fact following:

• “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
• “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14)
• “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’” (Matthew 7:22–23)
• “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46)
• “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15)
Will there be more people in heaven or in hell?
More People in Heaven Than in Hell
Billions of People are Going to Hell!
You are 100% correct as Scripture makes it clear that the punishment for the wicked it everlasting, never ending throughout all eternity. The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matt 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matt 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matt 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matt 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matt 25:46

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.


Rev 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Rev 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Rev 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:


Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Death & hades
Furnace of fire
Lake of burning sulfer
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels


All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.
 
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Major1

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You are 100% correct as Scripture makes it clear that the punishment for the wicked it everlasting, never ending throughout all eternity. The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matt 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matt 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matt 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matt 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matt 25:46

"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.


Rev 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Rev 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Rev 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:


Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels


All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.

Welcome to the forum and this thread as well!

We are agreed and it is a blessing to have you agree as well.
 
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Major1

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And you say these departing 'workers of iniquity' are the universalists lol?



Few find it, only all those narrow-path believers in eternal torment and annihilation. The rest of us, the great unwashed, to the bbq we go.

Have it your own way Major, you can watch me from a safe distance as I then follow the damned, whether as directed or merely out of compassion.

I said nothing. Jesus however said to those at that time who were MAKE believers that He never knew them. They were the religious lost.

My dear friend, I am not saying that you are not saved and will go to the LOF.

I simply posted what Jesus said which was that there will be MORE people in hell than there will be in heaven.

Another Bible fact is that Jesus preached more on hell than He did heaven.

You are free to believe what ever you choose to believe and it Is not my job to accuse or judge anyone.

Is it possible for a Christian to be a universalist? Some will say no; others will say yes.
My position is that it is possible for a Christian to be a universalist because believing Universalism to my knowledge is NOT AN ESSENTIAL of salvation.

However, to be clear, I believe universalism to be a heresy, and I would never say, "All Universalists are Christians" any more than I would say that ALL Baptists or ALL Methodists are Christians.
 
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FineLinen

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I simply posted what Jesus said which was that there will be MORE people in hell than there will be in heaven.

Dear Lord Jesus: congratulations on your failed mission. You lost nothing in the leftover remnants of fish & bread, but alas, you lose nearly everything of those for whom you have propitiated.

You declared You would draw/drag/impel all mankind unto You, but alas, You tried, but failed miserably?

Time for a new Saviour who succeeds as the Author & Perfector/Archegos & Prodromos?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
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The truth can never be yelled loudly enough in a world of total falsehood.
The "TRUTH" does not and should not need to be yelled.
Well, he is ultimately not salvation for most ppl, isn't that your position? So maybe better 'a jot or tittle of salvation'.
Is that not what Jesus said?

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Yes, and they get CORRECTED in the fire, the old man of sin gets destroyed and the new man the overcomer in Christ emerges purified and repentant. See the nations go into the fire in Rev 20:7-15 and come out in Rev 21:24-26. And for the healing in Rev 22:2. Major case closed.
Where is one verse, two or more would be better, which states clearly and unequivocally that the unrighteous in the LOF will be resurrected and saved? I know this has been asked before but alas none of the UR-ites have provided that scripture.
Haha nice try Major. It's just redundant then lol? God saying 'Whoever wants to swear allegiance.' My that makes him sound gay smh.
Does Jesus sound gay when He said something like that?

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
No my man, God is restating and revealing the truth of the Abrahamic covenant, which sees its fulfilment in Christ and its consummation in the eschaton.
But nothing in the Abrahamic covenant says that the unrighteous will be reconciled after death.
All the nations blessed, saved and healed.
Why do you want to shrink God's jurisdiction to a few crusty old pharisees?
There are no, and never will be any, nations in the grave or the LOF. The nations being saved in Rev. are those nations which exist in the world at that time.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
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Dear Lord Jesus: congratulations on your failed mission. You lost nothing in the leftover remnants of fish & bread, but alas, you lose nearly everything of those for whom you have propitiated.

You declared You would draw/drag/impel all mankind unto You, but alas, You tried, but failed miserably?

Time for a new Saviour who succeeds as the Author & Perfector/Archegos & Prodromos?
And God must of failed in the OT using your logic since He destroyed the world with a flood and only a few survived. Israel was small and few compared to the rest of the world that was apart from God. Many are called but few are chosen. Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many are on that road and few are on the narrow road that leads to life.

Nothing has changed as God is Immutable. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God has always saved the few, the remnant compared to the many.

hope this helps !!!
 
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FineLinen

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And God must of failed in the OT using your logic since He destroyed the world with a flood and only a few survived.

hope this helps !!!

The fact is, exactly 8 survived, the rest of the disobedient indeed perished.

However:

The Apostle St. Peter declares in no uncertain terms, the rest of the story.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life..
 
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