If we are not taking the time to "weigh evidence" from The Interview with Dr. Kellogg we are no different than the catholics who accept the decisions of their leaders.
sky
sky
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The Interview with Dr. Kellogg
- Thread starter rainbowinthesky
- Start date
Excerpt # *47 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: I am glad to tell you the last letter I ever got from Sister White was just a sweet, nice, old-fashioned, motherly letter--just the same as she always used to write me. And she wrote me that letter after her visit here, and after the last time I saw her. She wrote me that letter from San Diego--just a nice, quiet, newsy letter without saying a word of condemnation. But that letter that came from her said, "You do that thing quick. Turn that bakery back that you have robbed. I hope it will not be necessary to reveal things which I might reveal concerning you."
Now, sir, that made me mad -- I am perfectly frank to tell you it made me mad to the soles of my shoes. Because it was a proposition to bargain with me. "If you do what I tell you to, I will protect you and won't let people know. If you don't, then I am going to expose you." I saw that she had made copies of it. She landed in California about two weeks after that. She started soon after she wrote that letter.
Elder Irwin came up to see me. He said, "I am going to meet Sister White. What word shall I take her from you?" On the porch there I said to him, "Did you get a copy of a letter to me the other day in which she threatened to reveal things about me?" He said, "Yes." I said, "You tell Sister White to go right straight ahead. She is at liberty to reveal about me everything the Lord has shown her. But if she attacks my character, she will have to prove what she says." He went over there and told her.
Now this that I am telling you now ought to make some impression upon your minds. What was the next message I got from Sister White? It was a telegram: "Come over here. We want to consult with you about the Australian sanitarium." I went over. I didn't feel very much like going. I didn't intend to go. But I went over, and I went up to the Sanitarium. I didn't feel much like meeting Sister White. I felt that she had mistreated me and insulted me by denying that I told her the truth, by trying to lay me in a lie and accusing me of things I had never done. And then in order to compel me to assent to do the thing she demanded of me, to threaten to expose me.
Bourdeau: If I were in your place, instead of allowing anger to come or hard feeling I would have gone and kneeled right down upon my knees before the Lord and placed it before Him.
Dr. Kellogg: I did. I did. I didn't have any very great trouble about it, but I said it made me mad, and it did. But I didn't remain mad. I cannot remain mad over night. I never did in my life. It is hard for me to keep mad for five minutes. But that angered me because I felt it was a contemptible thing, for after I had trusted her all my lifetime, treated her like a mother, had been absolutely honest and sincere to the last line I ever wrote her, to have her going back on me that way just because Santee had written her a lot of lies; to have her take that stand against me and tell Irwin and Haskell to take a firm stand against me--I saw things were off the track. It made me angry. I did not feel that she had treated me right, so I didn't feel like being very obsequious, and I went up to the Sanitarium, and after while she came up there. She came across the dining room with her face covered with smiles, holding out both hands, took both my hands and said, "Dr. Kellogg, how do you do? We have been very anxious to consult you about the Sanitarium in New South Wales.
Dr. Kellogg: I am glad to tell you the last letter I ever got from Sister White was just a sweet, nice, old-fashioned, motherly letter--just the same as she always used to write me. And she wrote me that letter after her visit here, and after the last time I saw her. She wrote me that letter from San Diego--just a nice, quiet, newsy letter without saying a word of condemnation. But that letter that came from her said, "You do that thing quick. Turn that bakery back that you have robbed. I hope it will not be necessary to reveal things which I might reveal concerning you."
Now, sir, that made me mad -- I am perfectly frank to tell you it made me mad to the soles of my shoes. Because it was a proposition to bargain with me. "If you do what I tell you to, I will protect you and won't let people know. If you don't, then I am going to expose you." I saw that she had made copies of it. She landed in California about two weeks after that. She started soon after she wrote that letter.
Elder Irwin came up to see me. He said, "I am going to meet Sister White. What word shall I take her from you?" On the porch there I said to him, "Did you get a copy of a letter to me the other day in which she threatened to reveal things about me?" He said, "Yes." I said, "You tell Sister White to go right straight ahead. She is at liberty to reveal about me everything the Lord has shown her. But if she attacks my character, she will have to prove what she says." He went over there and told her.
Now this that I am telling you now ought to make some impression upon your minds. What was the next message I got from Sister White? It was a telegram: "Come over here. We want to consult with you about the Australian sanitarium." I went over. I didn't feel very much like going. I didn't intend to go. But I went over, and I went up to the Sanitarium. I didn't feel much like meeting Sister White. I felt that she had mistreated me and insulted me by denying that I told her the truth, by trying to lay me in a lie and accusing me of things I had never done. And then in order to compel me to assent to do the thing she demanded of me, to threaten to expose me.
Bourdeau: If I were in your place, instead of allowing anger to come or hard feeling I would have gone and kneeled right down upon my knees before the Lord and placed it before Him.
Dr. Kellogg: I did. I did. I didn't have any very great trouble about it, but I said it made me mad, and it did. But I didn't remain mad. I cannot remain mad over night. I never did in my life. It is hard for me to keep mad for five minutes. But that angered me because I felt it was a contemptible thing, for after I had trusted her all my lifetime, treated her like a mother, had been absolutely honest and sincere to the last line I ever wrote her, to have her going back on me that way just because Santee had written her a lot of lies; to have her take that stand against me and tell Irwin and Haskell to take a firm stand against me--I saw things were off the track. It made me angry. I did not feel that she had treated me right, so I didn't feel like being very obsequious, and I went up to the Sanitarium, and after while she came up there. She came across the dining room with her face covered with smiles, holding out both hands, took both my hands and said, "Dr. Kellogg, how do you do? We have been very anxious to consult you about the Sanitarium in New South Wales.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Excerpt# 48 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: So we consulted about it for two days. Not a lisp of a word or anything at all. Everything I suggested was accepted right away. They were ready to send telegrams to get the building done and a whole lot of things. I was just about the leave, but I didn't feel it was right to go that way. Sister White had put me in a lie, in an unpleasant situation, had threatened me, and here I was going along as though everything was all right when it wasn't all right. And I didn't want her to think that merely consulting me a little in that way and giving me a little attention made things right, because it didn't. It didn't make a thing true that was not true and did not flatter me at all, and I did not want her to think that it did nor that that kind of cajoling did me any good at all. So I quietly met her the day before I went away.
I said, "Sister White, before I leave I ought to say something to you. Some of the things that have been written by you while you have been away were not true, and I am sure from some of the things you have written me you have been misinformed." "I have not been misinformed!" "Oh, but you have written me, Sister White, that I have erected buildings in Chicago to harbor the unworthy poor. I ask you to show me those buildings--that I have taken money from the Sanitarium." "I have never seen that you took any money from the Sanitarium for any such purpose." "But you have written me that I did." "I have no recollection of ever having written you any such thing." "If you look up your correspondence, you will find it." "I will look it up and write you." Never a line did she write me for three years. But I left her there and then, just like that. I came home.
Six weeks after, the General Conference was held here [1901] in Battle Creek. I thought from indications that there was going to be war at that time, that they were going to make an attack upon me because I saw W.C. White had been scheming for some time to get rid of the Medical Missionary Board. He wanted to get rid of that Board and that Association, and I had headed off several schemes. And Irwin had made up his mind Dr. Kellogg's influence was too great and he ought to be cut off. I knew he was making an attack, and I thought that meeting would be the end of us. And letters were coming from Sister White that persuaded me she was against me and that they had gotten her here.
I felt awfully bad. I spent half my nights up here in bed crying and wetting my pillow because I thought it was going to come, and I could not complete my dream which was to make the whole Seventh-day Adventist people a denomination of medical missionaries working in their homes, helping their neighbors--and to make it the great Good Samaritan organization of the world. And that is what I wanted then, too.
I saw this thing coming. Here were my [adopted] children. My ambition was that my children should all be missionaries right in this work, and I had made my will putting every dollar I had in the world right into this cause and had made my will to do it. And my wife had consented to have a small stipend,$100 a month, to take care of her and the children dependent upon her--and that every dollar of my income should go into this cause, every bit of it. I had made it that way. I had gone on supporting this medical missionary work until I was one hundred thousand dollars in debt. I had put the money into this cause.
Dr. Kellogg: So we consulted about it for two days. Not a lisp of a word or anything at all. Everything I suggested was accepted right away. They were ready to send telegrams to get the building done and a whole lot of things. I was just about the leave, but I didn't feel it was right to go that way. Sister White had put me in a lie, in an unpleasant situation, had threatened me, and here I was going along as though everything was all right when it wasn't all right. And I didn't want her to think that merely consulting me a little in that way and giving me a little attention made things right, because it didn't. It didn't make a thing true that was not true and did not flatter me at all, and I did not want her to think that it did nor that that kind of cajoling did me any good at all. So I quietly met her the day before I went away.
I said, "Sister White, before I leave I ought to say something to you. Some of the things that have been written by you while you have been away were not true, and I am sure from some of the things you have written me you have been misinformed." "I have not been misinformed!" "Oh, but you have written me, Sister White, that I have erected buildings in Chicago to harbor the unworthy poor. I ask you to show me those buildings--that I have taken money from the Sanitarium." "I have never seen that you took any money from the Sanitarium for any such purpose." "But you have written me that I did." "I have no recollection of ever having written you any such thing." "If you look up your correspondence, you will find it." "I will look it up and write you." Never a line did she write me for three years. But I left her there and then, just like that. I came home.
Six weeks after, the General Conference was held here [1901] in Battle Creek. I thought from indications that there was going to be war at that time, that they were going to make an attack upon me because I saw W.C. White had been scheming for some time to get rid of the Medical Missionary Board. He wanted to get rid of that Board and that Association, and I had headed off several schemes. And Irwin had made up his mind Dr. Kellogg's influence was too great and he ought to be cut off. I knew he was making an attack, and I thought that meeting would be the end of us. And letters were coming from Sister White that persuaded me she was against me and that they had gotten her here.
I felt awfully bad. I spent half my nights up here in bed crying and wetting my pillow because I thought it was going to come, and I could not complete my dream which was to make the whole Seventh-day Adventist people a denomination of medical missionaries working in their homes, helping their neighbors--and to make it the great Good Samaritan organization of the world. And that is what I wanted then, too.
I saw this thing coming. Here were my [adopted] children. My ambition was that my children should all be missionaries right in this work, and I had made my will putting every dollar I had in the world right into this cause and had made my will to do it. And my wife had consented to have a small stipend,$100 a month, to take care of her and the children dependent upon her--and that every dollar of my income should go into this cause, every bit of it. I had made it that way. I had gone on supporting this medical missionary work until I was one hundred thousand dollars in debt. I had put the money into this cause.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 49 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: And I worked without salary for years, traveled all over in the interests of this medical missionary work wherever I went without their even paying my expenses. And I paid my stenographer's expenses as well as my own and never a conference or the General Conference ever offered to pay a cent on my expenses. I would go over to different conference sanitariums to do operations, and I would earn a thousand dollars, perhaps, stay there a day or two, pay my expenses there, pay them for my board while I was there and pay for my stenographer's board, and work all day and all night, and pay for my board the same as though I was a stranger there.
That is the way I worked, and I got in debt. When I saw the whole thing was going to fall dead, I sat down on the sofa upstairs, Mrs. Kellogg and I, and we wept together by the hour because we saw that thing was coming, and the plans for our children to go right along in the work would not be realized. It looked as though the thing would certainly smash.
I was so certain that thing was coming that I moved out of my house before the General Conference came. I went into a little cottage across the road and sent Mrs. Kellogg down to her friends in Alfred Center. She had an excuse for going. Her father and mother had died, and they had a little estate to settle down there, and I had her take a number of the children with her and put them in school there. And I went into a cottage with the rest of them to wait to see what the Lord was going to do with us. I expected nothing else at all but that they would take their stand against us.
I must tell you that away back, nine years ago, at the time of the South Lancaster meeting there came a testimony condemning me for things I had not done. I sent her my resignation, told her the things she had written me were not true. I could not receive them as from the Lord for they were not true, and I said, "Here is my resignation of everything connected with the Seventh-day Adventist denomination." And she has got it yet, and they have had it all the time. And now I expected nothing else but, as I said, that that 1901 conference would be the end of us. So I moved out of my house.
I went to see Sister White, told her to her face that the things she had written me were not true, and I came home and did not expect anything else but to be denounced further. She met Dr. Sanderson and she said, "Dr. Sanderson, the whole denomination is looking to see who comes out ahead, Dr. Kellogg or I, and I will never give up as long as I live." I was in suspense. I thought to myself, I will ask the Lord for a sign as to whether it is going to be war or peace, and I will find out. So I said, "I will send Sister White an invitation to come to my house. If she accepts that, it will be a sign from the Lord of peace and that these men are not going to crush us this time."
So I prayed over the matter very earnestly, and I set that thing. I asked the Lord for a sign, and I made that sign so after my last parting with her when I told he what she had written me was not the truth. That was the last word I said to her, and I came home. I wrote to Sister White, and I got a letter from her saying she would accept my invitation to come to my house, so I had the rooms prepared for her.
Irwin heard of it. You know Joe Collie? He was at the College then. Sutherland said, "Joe Collie was at the telephone awhile ago, and Elder Irwin was there at the same time, and he was telephoning somebody, and he said,'The game is up. Sister White is going to Dr. Kellogg's house.'"
Dr. Kellogg: And I worked without salary for years, traveled all over in the interests of this medical missionary work wherever I went without their even paying my expenses. And I paid my stenographer's expenses as well as my own and never a conference or the General Conference ever offered to pay a cent on my expenses. I would go over to different conference sanitariums to do operations, and I would earn a thousand dollars, perhaps, stay there a day or two, pay my expenses there, pay them for my board while I was there and pay for my stenographer's board, and work all day and all night, and pay for my board the same as though I was a stranger there.
That is the way I worked, and I got in debt. When I saw the whole thing was going to fall dead, I sat down on the sofa upstairs, Mrs. Kellogg and I, and we wept together by the hour because we saw that thing was coming, and the plans for our children to go right along in the work would not be realized. It looked as though the thing would certainly smash.
I was so certain that thing was coming that I moved out of my house before the General Conference came. I went into a little cottage across the road and sent Mrs. Kellogg down to her friends in Alfred Center. She had an excuse for going. Her father and mother had died, and they had a little estate to settle down there, and I had her take a number of the children with her and put them in school there. And I went into a cottage with the rest of them to wait to see what the Lord was going to do with us. I expected nothing else at all but that they would take their stand against us.
I must tell you that away back, nine years ago, at the time of the South Lancaster meeting there came a testimony condemning me for things I had not done. I sent her my resignation, told her the things she had written me were not true. I could not receive them as from the Lord for they were not true, and I said, "Here is my resignation of everything connected with the Seventh-day Adventist denomination." And she has got it yet, and they have had it all the time. And now I expected nothing else but, as I said, that that 1901 conference would be the end of us. So I moved out of my house.
I went to see Sister White, told her to her face that the things she had written me were not true, and I came home and did not expect anything else but to be denounced further. She met Dr. Sanderson and she said, "Dr. Sanderson, the whole denomination is looking to see who comes out ahead, Dr. Kellogg or I, and I will never give up as long as I live." I was in suspense. I thought to myself, I will ask the Lord for a sign as to whether it is going to be war or peace, and I will find out. So I said, "I will send Sister White an invitation to come to my house. If she accepts that, it will be a sign from the Lord of peace and that these men are not going to crush us this time."
So I prayed over the matter very earnestly, and I set that thing. I asked the Lord for a sign, and I made that sign so after my last parting with her when I told he what she had written me was not the truth. That was the last word I said to her, and I came home. I wrote to Sister White, and I got a letter from her saying she would accept my invitation to come to my house, so I had the rooms prepared for her.
Irwin heard of it. You know Joe Collie? He was at the College then. Sutherland said, "Joe Collie was at the telephone awhile ago, and Elder Irwin was there at the same time, and he was telephoning somebody, and he said,'The game is up. Sister White is going to Dr. Kellogg's house.'"
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 50 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: Of course that was amusing. They were in awful terror about it. But Irwin had an appointment down in Illinois, a special meeting he had called, a district meeting down there that they had gotten up at great inconvenience, and he was due there. But when he found this out, he got aboard the cars and went straight to California to see Sister White. Sister Druillard was there with Sister White at this time, and Sister Druillard said to me that Sister White got a telegram from Irwin saying, "I am coming." And she said, "What is he coming over here for?"
Of course Irwin's fate was settled, but he didn't know it. They brought Daniells over here to be president of the General Conference. It was all arranged over at Australia. I know the man who was present when they had the talk. Daniells denies it, but he doesn't tell the truth about it.
Irwin, when he found out about it, began to scrabble every way he could to keep in, and he wrote Sister White a letter and asked her if there was any reason why he should not be president, and she told him she did not know any reason. So he got the men all together, read the letter to them to start his presidential boom. There they were, "cooking his goose for him" as the boys say, all the time, and made him travel all over the country to introduce Daniells to all the conferences when he was simply attending his own funeral.
Well, he thought he was going to win by his attack on me. So he went over there to see Sister White, and he read her a letter I had written him; and in that letter, by putting peculiar emphasis upon certain words, he gave Sister White the very opposite impression from what I had intended it to mean. Mrs. Druillard was present and she heard it. So he labored with Sister White and got her to change her mind about coming to my house. He [W. C.] kept saying to his mother, "What will the ministers think? What will the ministers think?" I know this from people who were in the house. Finally she decided not to come.
In the meantime I began to hear rumors about it, heard that a house had been hired down the street here. Cindy Hall got her a house down the street. I waited to see what was going on. And by and by, just a few days before the conference, I saw she had a house all ready for her down there, and I wrote her a letter. I said, "Sister White, will you accept an invitation to come to my house? I notice another house is being arranged for you so I conclude you have decided not to come to my house, and I am writing you simply to tell you it will make no difference in my attitude towards you. I am your friend, and I shall remain your friend just the same. And I shall take no stand against you at all if you think best not to come because you think it will hurt your influence with those who are my enemies. If you think best not to do it on that account, my attitude will remain just the same. It will make no difference to me. Do what you think is right and proper to do."
That next day after I mailed that letter I got a letter from her, and that letter had three letters in it. This represents a phase of this whole work that shows you that there is scheming and that Sister White herself enters into it, and what she writes is not always quite straight and square. I knew that from previous experience; but it is a personal fault and habit, and this shows you the fact.
There were three letters and three different dates. The one with the oldest date said, "I do not know; it may be possible that I will not be able to come to your house as I had agreed to do as it is quite a distance from the Tabernacle, and I am not very strong, and I will need a place nearer to the Tabernacle." Of course I knew all about it. She did not know that I knew, but I knew the game that was going on all the while. That was not the truth.
Dr. Kellogg: Of course that was amusing. They were in awful terror about it. But Irwin had an appointment down in Illinois, a special meeting he had called, a district meeting down there that they had gotten up at great inconvenience, and he was due there. But when he found this out, he got aboard the cars and went straight to California to see Sister White. Sister Druillard was there with Sister White at this time, and Sister Druillard said to me that Sister White got a telegram from Irwin saying, "I am coming." And she said, "What is he coming over here for?"
Of course Irwin's fate was settled, but he didn't know it. They brought Daniells over here to be president of the General Conference. It was all arranged over at Australia. I know the man who was present when they had the talk. Daniells denies it, but he doesn't tell the truth about it.
Irwin, when he found out about it, began to scrabble every way he could to keep in, and he wrote Sister White a letter and asked her if there was any reason why he should not be president, and she told him she did not know any reason. So he got the men all together, read the letter to them to start his presidential boom. There they were, "cooking his goose for him" as the boys say, all the time, and made him travel all over the country to introduce Daniells to all the conferences when he was simply attending his own funeral.
Well, he thought he was going to win by his attack on me. So he went over there to see Sister White, and he read her a letter I had written him; and in that letter, by putting peculiar emphasis upon certain words, he gave Sister White the very opposite impression from what I had intended it to mean. Mrs. Druillard was present and she heard it. So he labored with Sister White and got her to change her mind about coming to my house. He [W. C.] kept saying to his mother, "What will the ministers think? What will the ministers think?" I know this from people who were in the house. Finally she decided not to come.
In the meantime I began to hear rumors about it, heard that a house had been hired down the street here. Cindy Hall got her a house down the street. I waited to see what was going on. And by and by, just a few days before the conference, I saw she had a house all ready for her down there, and I wrote her a letter. I said, "Sister White, will you accept an invitation to come to my house? I notice another house is being arranged for you so I conclude you have decided not to come to my house, and I am writing you simply to tell you it will make no difference in my attitude towards you. I am your friend, and I shall remain your friend just the same. And I shall take no stand against you at all if you think best not to come because you think it will hurt your influence with those who are my enemies. If you think best not to do it on that account, my attitude will remain just the same. It will make no difference to me. Do what you think is right and proper to do."
That next day after I mailed that letter I got a letter from her, and that letter had three letters in it. This represents a phase of this whole work that shows you that there is scheming and that Sister White herself enters into it, and what she writes is not always quite straight and square. I knew that from previous experience; but it is a personal fault and habit, and this shows you the fact.
There were three letters and three different dates. The one with the oldest date said, "I do not know; it may be possible that I will not be able to come to your house as I had agreed to do as it is quite a distance from the Tabernacle, and I am not very strong, and I will need a place nearer to the Tabernacle." Of course I knew all about it. She did not know that I knew, but I knew the game that was going on all the while. That was not the truth.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 51 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: The next letter stated, "I have decided my company is so large, so many persons are coming along with me, that it would not be right for me to impose so much upon your generosity, and we will have to have a house of our own where we will have it perfectly quiet and be all by ourselves, so I have given instruction to have another house prepared for me."
The instruction had been already given, and the house was already prepared all the time, and I knew it, all the while before that letter was written. That was just simply to prepare my mind, you know. The third letter stated, "Last Friday night when we were having family prayers, a light filled the room and an odor of violets; and a voice spoke to me and said,'Go to Dr. Kellogg's house,' and so I am coming."
When she got here, I did not feel free to go to see her for fear people would think I was trying to influence her; so I did not go to see her at all. She was here in my house. I lived across the road. I came up and met her on the porch, shook hands with her, and passed on. I put her in possession of this house right here. I waited.
After two or three days she sent for me. She wanted to see me after a day or two. She said, "When I decided to come here, they said"--she didn't tell me who "they" were, but I knew who it was--"they said,'Mother, you ought not to go to Dr. Kellogg's house because of what the people will say.'"
Now I went to Sister White. The question of reorganization was up. I said to Sister White I thought it was wrong to have a Conference Committee constituted as they were made up of preachers trying to run all the business and everything else, and I thought we ought to have a representative committee in which all the different organizations should be represented; and the conference committee might go on as it was, the old General Conference Committee, look after the religious affairs of the association made up of the elder men and godly men to look after the religious affairs; then have a sort of working committee, a central committee that will be made up of representatives of all the institutions and business affairs and let them have charge of that but not let them have executive power, but an advisory power, so they could get together and have council but not to have executive power. She said, "That is right."
This was the day before the conference met. I called the Conference Committee together, told them I wanted to meet them, had our Board in to meet them. And I arose and told them I wanted them to understand that the medical men and the Medical Missionary Board could not enter into this conference with them with confidence in what they were going to do, that under the present state of things we could not have confidence and we could not be felt bound by their decisions because there was a company of five or seven preachers, and there was nobody on that Board who knew anything about medical work or who knew anything about Bible work, or about educational work. Yet there they were professing to be ruling over the entire denomination in all branches of the work, and it was not a proper thing. And I demanded we should have a reorganization and suggested the plan I had already spoken to Sister White about. They rose in great wrath. Irwin declared against it; Loughborough said the present organization had the endorsement of the Lord; and they all took a strong stand against it. But W. C. White and Daniells did not. They remained on the fence.
Dr. Kellogg: The next letter stated, "I have decided my company is so large, so many persons are coming along with me, that it would not be right for me to impose so much upon your generosity, and we will have to have a house of our own where we will have it perfectly quiet and be all by ourselves, so I have given instruction to have another house prepared for me."
The instruction had been already given, and the house was already prepared all the time, and I knew it, all the while before that letter was written. That was just simply to prepare my mind, you know. The third letter stated, "Last Friday night when we were having family prayers, a light filled the room and an odor of violets; and a voice spoke to me and said,'Go to Dr. Kellogg's house,' and so I am coming."
When she got here, I did not feel free to go to see her for fear people would think I was trying to influence her; so I did not go to see her at all. She was here in my house. I lived across the road. I came up and met her on the porch, shook hands with her, and passed on. I put her in possession of this house right here. I waited.
After two or three days she sent for me. She wanted to see me after a day or two. She said, "When I decided to come here, they said"--she didn't tell me who "they" were, but I knew who it was--"they said,'Mother, you ought not to go to Dr. Kellogg's house because of what the people will say.'"
Now I went to Sister White. The question of reorganization was up. I said to Sister White I thought it was wrong to have a Conference Committee constituted as they were made up of preachers trying to run all the business and everything else, and I thought we ought to have a representative committee in which all the different organizations should be represented; and the conference committee might go on as it was, the old General Conference Committee, look after the religious affairs of the association made up of the elder men and godly men to look after the religious affairs; then have a sort of working committee, a central committee that will be made up of representatives of all the institutions and business affairs and let them have charge of that but not let them have executive power, but an advisory power, so they could get together and have council but not to have executive power. She said, "That is right."
This was the day before the conference met. I called the Conference Committee together, told them I wanted to meet them, had our Board in to meet them. And I arose and told them I wanted them to understand that the medical men and the Medical Missionary Board could not enter into this conference with them with confidence in what they were going to do, that under the present state of things we could not have confidence and we could not be felt bound by their decisions because there was a company of five or seven preachers, and there was nobody on that Board who knew anything about medical work or who knew anything about Bible work, or about educational work. Yet there they were professing to be ruling over the entire denomination in all branches of the work, and it was not a proper thing. And I demanded we should have a reorganization and suggested the plan I had already spoken to Sister White about. They rose in great wrath. Irwin declared against it; Loughborough said the present organization had the endorsement of the Lord; and they all took a strong stand against it. But W. C. White and Daniells did not. They remained on the fence.
Upvote
0
JD, what do you think? If the Lord says so then who am I to question what He says?
"It has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead men to look to man, and trust to man, and be educated to expect help from man. For years the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man but not looking to Jesus in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave to His servants a testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus, which is the third angel's message, in clear, distinct lines." Testimonies to Ministers,93.
As we know that message was resisted at the time it was proclaimed to our churches between 1888 and 1903. Since then "the work of making man amenable to man" (T.M.481) has not ceased but it has waxed stronger and stronger. Therefore this message is to be proclaimed within our ranks today with greater power and glory.
On page 362 and 363 of the same book we learn that at the time that message was given, the church had been "following in the track of Romanism." In another place we are told that "It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy." Signs of the Times Feb.19,1894. Still in another place we are told that "we may have less to say, in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy." (T.M.112) And what about this dream given to Mrs. White in which she saw a company of adventist leaders walking toward the college building in Battle Creek changing into a "catholic procession"? This is very significant. You can read this from Testimonies, Vol.1,578.
Seventh-day Adventists would NEVER EVER think of the third angel's message as applying to them as a people and certainly not being told that they have been following in the track of Romanism! We have always believed the third angel's message to be a warning to all the other churches, especially the Catholic church, but these statements above, and there are many others, show otherwise. This solemn warning of the third angel's message applies first of all to the professed people of God before it swells into the loud cry to the world.
Here is the Testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus and which was the Third Angel's message to the professed people of God first:
"Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to Jesus, to His MERITS, and to His changeless love for the human family... Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the MERITS which it is his privilege to CLAIM, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless his eyes were fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.92,93.
This is the third angel's message of righteousness by faith, that is, by daily trusting wholly in the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour for, "Looking unto Jesus and trusting in HIS MERITS, we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5,744.
On page 92 we are told that this is the third angel's message which is to be proclaimed to the church first and then to the world. It says that this is the message that God has commanded to be given to the world and it is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and it will be attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure. It is the latter rain message to us and it is the very message which is to be proclaimed to the world in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God.
sky
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 52 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Will suggested that "Mother should be consulted." A committee was appointed to see Sister White, and they came up early next morning to see her. As we passed out of the room I said to Prof. Prescott, "I haven't any apprehension as to what the report of that committee will be because Sister White has already told me this plan is right, for I had a few minutes' talk with her."
I received not so very long ago a letter saying, "You have reported that you told me the things that I stated at the Tabernacle, that that was not from the Lord; but you yourself had given me that information and told me those things and that I am simply saying what you told me to say." She said, "You know that was not the truth. You know you and I had no conversations before that meeting." Well, now, I wrote back to Sister White and told her she had been misinformed, that I had never said anything of the sort--told her exactly what I did say.
Now, I might say that just as Sister White was starting down to the meeting, one of those meetings, I stood on my porch and I began saying one word to her with reference to matters, and she said, "Wouldn't it be better if we should not be seen talking together?" So I refrained from saying anything.
Now, then, we had that meeting in 1901. I have told you the facts. Just a very short time before that meeting I told Sister White what she had written me was not the truth, and I never have taken it back. I told her when she wrote me and stated "One was present and heard your threatening words"--I wrote her and told her it was not the truth, for I said no threatening words and she sent that to me and said a divine person was present and heard my threatening words and had communicated these words to her, and she sent that to me as a testimony.
I saw J. H. Morrison afterwards, and I said to him, "What about those threatening words I said at that meeting?" I said to him, "It seems to me you are the man that said the threatening words, not me." He said, "Now, Doctor, you have such a way of presenting things that when you get through talking, when you have presented your case, a man feels as though if he differs from you he must be a fool." I said, "There are no threatening words about that, are there?" I said, "The thing that led those men to act was because they had their own record and could not go back on it, and the thing was right anyhow and had to be done." And another evidence that the thing is right is that after nine years it still stands today. It has never been changed, and they would not dare to try to change it because the minute they do they have got to face that record and to face the facts, and they cannot wipe them out.
And you are exactly where I stand. I have not been holding these facts in the dark. What I know and what you know now, Sister White herself has known for nine years. My letters will show it. I can show you the letters in which I have written to her and a copy of my letter to her in which I offered my resignation of the whole thing because she was believing things that were not true and giving me no chance for a hearing. And I told her I was ready to quit, get rid of the thing, and that is all there was about it.
Now, then, I will tell you why I have not made any noise about these things. Most of these things I have never mentioned before, and you knew nothing about them.
Bourdeau: Don't you mention these things to the doctors?
Dr. Kellogg: I don't have any occasion to. I don't talk these things to people. I don't want people to know them. My wife doesn't know what I have been telling you. My own wife doesn't know, and the members of my family, my children, don't know what I have been telling you. The helpers at the Sanitarium never heard these things I have been telling you. Haskell, Butler and Irwin were knowing to most of the facts. The members of the Medical Missionary Association knew a little of it.
Bourdeau: They do not say anything about it.
Will suggested that "Mother should be consulted." A committee was appointed to see Sister White, and they came up early next morning to see her. As we passed out of the room I said to Prof. Prescott, "I haven't any apprehension as to what the report of that committee will be because Sister White has already told me this plan is right, for I had a few minutes' talk with her."
I received not so very long ago a letter saying, "You have reported that you told me the things that I stated at the Tabernacle, that that was not from the Lord; but you yourself had given me that information and told me those things and that I am simply saying what you told me to say." She said, "You know that was not the truth. You know you and I had no conversations before that meeting." Well, now, I wrote back to Sister White and told her she had been misinformed, that I had never said anything of the sort--told her exactly what I did say.
Now, I might say that just as Sister White was starting down to the meeting, one of those meetings, I stood on my porch and I began saying one word to her with reference to matters, and she said, "Wouldn't it be better if we should not be seen talking together?" So I refrained from saying anything.
Now, then, we had that meeting in 1901. I have told you the facts. Just a very short time before that meeting I told Sister White what she had written me was not the truth, and I never have taken it back. I told her when she wrote me and stated "One was present and heard your threatening words"--I wrote her and told her it was not the truth, for I said no threatening words and she sent that to me and said a divine person was present and heard my threatening words and had communicated these words to her, and she sent that to me as a testimony.
I saw J. H. Morrison afterwards, and I said to him, "What about those threatening words I said at that meeting?" I said to him, "It seems to me you are the man that said the threatening words, not me." He said, "Now, Doctor, you have such a way of presenting things that when you get through talking, when you have presented your case, a man feels as though if he differs from you he must be a fool." I said, "There are no threatening words about that, are there?" I said, "The thing that led those men to act was because they had their own record and could not go back on it, and the thing was right anyhow and had to be done." And another evidence that the thing is right is that after nine years it still stands today. It has never been changed, and they would not dare to try to change it because the minute they do they have got to face that record and to face the facts, and they cannot wipe them out.
And you are exactly where I stand. I have not been holding these facts in the dark. What I know and what you know now, Sister White herself has known for nine years. My letters will show it. I can show you the letters in which I have written to her and a copy of my letter to her in which I offered my resignation of the whole thing because she was believing things that were not true and giving me no chance for a hearing. And I told her I was ready to quit, get rid of the thing, and that is all there was about it.
Now, then, I will tell you why I have not made any noise about these things. Most of these things I have never mentioned before, and you knew nothing about them.
Bourdeau: Don't you mention these things to the doctors?
Dr. Kellogg: I don't have any occasion to. I don't talk these things to people. I don't want people to know them. My wife doesn't know what I have been telling you. My own wife doesn't know, and the members of my family, my children, don't know what I have been telling you. The helpers at the Sanitarium never heard these things I have been telling you. Haskell, Butler and Irwin were knowing to most of the facts. The members of the Medical Missionary Association knew a little of it.
Bourdeau: They do not say anything about it.
Upvote
0
Excerpt #53 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg:
Dr. Kellogg: They never hesitated to tell me. One day just before our fire here in February 1902, Elder Daniells was present at a Board meeting. After 1901 that question of the College View bakery kept coming up because N. P. Nelson down there in Nebraska was a very tenacious fellow, and Will White had promised him I should be made to put that bakery back. And they sent him copies of the testimonies they sent to me, commanding me to put that bakery back, and I hadn't done it, and there it was, an open defiance of the testimony. And they kept hounding Will to see to it that I turned the bakery back. I could not do it if I had wanted to; it was a legal transfer done in a legal way by the Board, and I could not do it if I wanted to. So it bothered Will.
After 1901 they kept after Will about it, Nelson did and Morrison--"Because," they said, "Dr. Kellogg is in defiance against the Testimonies." So Sister White wrote me a modified letter, and in this letter she said, "Don't you ever allow yourself to do again what you did in relation to the Nebraska Sanitarium bakery, the College View bakery; and don't you ever allow yourself to do such a thing again."
That was a sort of permission to let it go this time, but I must not ever do it again. And I went over to California about the time I got that letter. I went over there and I saw Sister White-- no, before I went over there I brought it before the Medical Missionary Board. They were the parties who did it, not me, and the General Conference Association, and Elder Prescott was present and Elder Daniells was present. I read this letter from Sister White. I said, "Now, what shall we do about this?" Prof. Prescott immediately got up and he walked up and down the room. You see, he had been a member of the original committee, and he knew all about it. And I thought it was very fortunate to have him there. He shook his head. His jaw dropped, and he shook his head. Elder Daniells stood up in the corner of the room, and he said, "Well, you will have to do with that just the same as I have done with a great many other things like that. I have had a great many things like that that I could not understand, and I laid them away on the shelf." So we all agreed that we would lay that away on the shelf.
But I went over to California a short time afterwards by the advice of the President of the General Conference. I went over to California, and I called on Sister White, and I said to Will, "Now, then, I am going to talk to your mother about that College View bakery business." I said, "She has got to know the facts about it." So I sat down and told her the whole story. And Will was there and heard it all. We went away. It was in the evening. I said "Will, I am sorry I had to talk to your mother about this thing; it doesn't trouble me any, but I know it is right, and I cannot do any different than what I have done." And I told Sister White all about it. I told her, "If I ever had that thing to do again, I should do exactly as I did do, for I could not do any different." And I talked to her straight about it. I said to Will, "I am sorry I talked to your mother. I am afraid it will keep her awake, that it will disturb her." "Oh, no," he said, "it is all right. I am very glad you talked with her." He said, "I have noticed that in cases of this sort generally a good talk of this kind generally did good, and that after having such a talk it was generally dropped. And I don't think you will ever hear any more from it." And I never did. And there never has been anything done about it. It was dropped right there. Now didn't the Lord know about it all the while? Now, you see, that is the situation of the thing.
Dr. Kellogg: They never hesitated to tell me. One day just before our fire here in February 1902, Elder Daniells was present at a Board meeting. After 1901 that question of the College View bakery kept coming up because N. P. Nelson down there in Nebraska was a very tenacious fellow, and Will White had promised him I should be made to put that bakery back. And they sent him copies of the testimonies they sent to me, commanding me to put that bakery back, and I hadn't done it, and there it was, an open defiance of the testimony. And they kept hounding Will to see to it that I turned the bakery back. I could not do it if I had wanted to; it was a legal transfer done in a legal way by the Board, and I could not do it if I wanted to. So it bothered Will.
After 1901 they kept after Will about it, Nelson did and Morrison--"Because," they said, "Dr. Kellogg is in defiance against the Testimonies." So Sister White wrote me a modified letter, and in this letter she said, "Don't you ever allow yourself to do again what you did in relation to the Nebraska Sanitarium bakery, the College View bakery; and don't you ever allow yourself to do such a thing again."
That was a sort of permission to let it go this time, but I must not ever do it again. And I went over to California about the time I got that letter. I went over there and I saw Sister White-- no, before I went over there I brought it before the Medical Missionary Board. They were the parties who did it, not me, and the General Conference Association, and Elder Prescott was present and Elder Daniells was present. I read this letter from Sister White. I said, "Now, what shall we do about this?" Prof. Prescott immediately got up and he walked up and down the room. You see, he had been a member of the original committee, and he knew all about it. And I thought it was very fortunate to have him there. He shook his head. His jaw dropped, and he shook his head. Elder Daniells stood up in the corner of the room, and he said, "Well, you will have to do with that just the same as I have done with a great many other things like that. I have had a great many things like that that I could not understand, and I laid them away on the shelf." So we all agreed that we would lay that away on the shelf.
But I went over to California a short time afterwards by the advice of the President of the General Conference. I went over to California, and I called on Sister White, and I said to Will, "Now, then, I am going to talk to your mother about that College View bakery business." I said, "She has got to know the facts about it." So I sat down and told her the whole story. And Will was there and heard it all. We went away. It was in the evening. I said "Will, I am sorry I had to talk to your mother about this thing; it doesn't trouble me any, but I know it is right, and I cannot do any different than what I have done." And I told Sister White all about it. I told her, "If I ever had that thing to do again, I should do exactly as I did do, for I could not do any different." And I talked to her straight about it. I said to Will, "I am sorry I talked to your mother. I am afraid it will keep her awake, that it will disturb her." "Oh, no," he said, "it is all right. I am very glad you talked with her." He said, "I have noticed that in cases of this sort generally a good talk of this kind generally did good, and that after having such a talk it was generally dropped. And I don't think you will ever hear any more from it." And I never did. And there never has been anything done about it. It was dropped right there. Now didn't the Lord know about it all the while? Now, you see, that is the situation of the thing.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 54 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: I wrote to W. C. White sometime quite early in the controversy, and I said to him, "It is far more important to me to be right and have integrity, it is of far greater importance to me, than what the public and the Seventh-day Adventists think about me. I propose to be square and to be right. I propose go stand square, and I will trust the Lord to see me through." He wrote me back and he said, "I think you will find out it makes a good deal of difference to you what Seventh-day Adventists think of you," and he proceeded to make me find out.
Now they have gone far enough to make me see that I cannot trust those men. I cannot trust him; he has convicted himself. His mother has admitted that she sent testimonies to me that were based on pure suspicion, pure supposition, and had no foundation in fact at all, by her own admission. And she has apologized to me for things which she wrote me that were not right, and she had asked to have me ordained as a minister when I told her to her face a short time before that what she had written me was not the truth.
It was three years after that before I ever got any explanation, and the explanation was she thought it was true, thought it was true but afterwards found out it was not true. That is how the thing stands. I am thoroughly persuaded, as I said before, that this Seventh-day Adventist ship is going to pieces. The truth won't go to pieces; the truth is going right straight on. Those men are spending their money, a large part of it, in putting up expensive buildings in Washington to catch the eye of the world's great men.
Dr. Kellogg: I have simply mentioned to you the facts, and they have been making charges against me. All the Battle Creek church has to do, if they have any confidence in their course of action--let them put me on trial and demonstrate these things are true. That will be enough to turn me out of church. I am accused by the General Conference men of infamy, of immorality. I am accused of robbery; I am accused of sending spies about; I am accused of being hypnotized by Lucifer. I have been openly accused before the whole town of infamous things here, of being connected with the devil. Those things have been held right up in public. Now, then, let them put me on trial and prove some of those things to be true. I am not asking any complaint against the General Conference Committee; I am simply telling you of the facts as they are. So far as I am concerned I have been through this thing before.
Elder White was running amuck against me for three years, and Sister White was with him most of the time. Then she and the Elder had a quarrel, and she began to come on the other side of the thing.
Dr. Kellogg: I wrote to W. C. White sometime quite early in the controversy, and I said to him, "It is far more important to me to be right and have integrity, it is of far greater importance to me, than what the public and the Seventh-day Adventists think about me. I propose to be square and to be right. I propose go stand square, and I will trust the Lord to see me through." He wrote me back and he said, "I think you will find out it makes a good deal of difference to you what Seventh-day Adventists think of you," and he proceeded to make me find out.
Now they have gone far enough to make me see that I cannot trust those men. I cannot trust him; he has convicted himself. His mother has admitted that she sent testimonies to me that were based on pure suspicion, pure supposition, and had no foundation in fact at all, by her own admission. And she has apologized to me for things which she wrote me that were not right, and she had asked to have me ordained as a minister when I told her to her face a short time before that what she had written me was not the truth.
It was three years after that before I ever got any explanation, and the explanation was she thought it was true, thought it was true but afterwards found out it was not true. That is how the thing stands. I am thoroughly persuaded, as I said before, that this Seventh-day Adventist ship is going to pieces. The truth won't go to pieces; the truth is going right straight on. Those men are spending their money, a large part of it, in putting up expensive buildings in Washington to catch the eye of the world's great men.
Dr. Kellogg: I have simply mentioned to you the facts, and they have been making charges against me. All the Battle Creek church has to do, if they have any confidence in their course of action--let them put me on trial and demonstrate these things are true. That will be enough to turn me out of church. I am accused by the General Conference men of infamy, of immorality. I am accused of robbery; I am accused of sending spies about; I am accused of being hypnotized by Lucifer. I have been openly accused before the whole town of infamous things here, of being connected with the devil. Those things have been held right up in public. Now, then, let them put me on trial and prove some of those things to be true. I am not asking any complaint against the General Conference Committee; I am simply telling you of the facts as they are. So far as I am concerned I have been through this thing before.
Elder White was running amuck against me for three years, and Sister White was with him most of the time. Then she and the Elder had a quarrel, and she began to come on the other side of the thing.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 55 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: There was a testimony at that time that you must have in your possession. When the Sanitarium was built, when the first building was put up--you remember the time--a little testimony was put out. The Elder says himself that he didn't do things quite straight in those days. O. B. Jones was superintendent. When it was gotten done, it had cost a great deal more than we expected it would cost, than we expected it was going to cost. When we were digging the ground, putting in foundations for the building, we came across some stone--
Armadon: You know we had a regular hocus pocus, a foundation one time; then that had to be all taken out. Brother Loughborough and J. M. Aldrich encouraged it.
Dr. Kellogg: It was an infamous thing, a crime, tearing that thing down. It was torn down for no other reason than because James White was not consulted. They were putting on the second story. When we were digging the foundation for that new building, we found some of the old foundation stones of that first building, and the Elder said, "I declare! Here is a part of that old foundation. I thought we got every one of those stones out of here." He said, "I will tell you, Doctor, if I had known how much power and strength there was in this thing, I would never have torn that thing down."
Now the Elder came in and tore it down, for he didn't have a thing to do with founding the Sanitarium. He tore that thing down. They had to raise about eleven thousand dollars, if I remember right, and that was all thrown away in tearing that building down. Threw it all away. Elder did it to simply wreck that thing. He didn't want to do it, and he afterwards confessed it when we put up that other building. They might have gone on and raised the money and finished the building up. It would not have cost so very much more. We had the foundation laid, and the building up to the first story.
When we got the next building done it cost a great deal more than we expected, and the Elder thought we were going bankrupt sure. We were in debt fifteen thousand dollars, and the Elder felt pretty blue. A testimony came out saying that building was too big and we had been patterning after the world and our furniture was too expensive and all that sort of thing. And there was a footnote in it. Do you remember that little footnote in it which Elder White put onto the testimony, explaining that the cost was due to changes for which Dr. J. H. Kellogg was responsible? Do you remember that also?
Bourdeau: I think I do.
Dr. Kellogg: You remember that, Brother Amadon?
Amadon: I don't just recollect that now, but I know there were some funny things going those days.
Dr. Kellogg: You told me once that you had a copy in your house of that testimony that condemned the building, condemned the furnishings, condemned me as being responsible for it. And James White slipped out of it so as to get it all onto my shoulders.
Amadon: I know something about how the Elder used to do things.
Dr. Kellogg: There was a testimony at that time that you must have in your possession. When the Sanitarium was built, when the first building was put up--you remember the time--a little testimony was put out. The Elder says himself that he didn't do things quite straight in those days. O. B. Jones was superintendent. When it was gotten done, it had cost a great deal more than we expected it would cost, than we expected it was going to cost. When we were digging the ground, putting in foundations for the building, we came across some stone--
Armadon: You know we had a regular hocus pocus, a foundation one time; then that had to be all taken out. Brother Loughborough and J. M. Aldrich encouraged it.
Dr. Kellogg: It was an infamous thing, a crime, tearing that thing down. It was torn down for no other reason than because James White was not consulted. They were putting on the second story. When we were digging the foundation for that new building, we found some of the old foundation stones of that first building, and the Elder said, "I declare! Here is a part of that old foundation. I thought we got every one of those stones out of here." He said, "I will tell you, Doctor, if I had known how much power and strength there was in this thing, I would never have torn that thing down."
Now the Elder came in and tore it down, for he didn't have a thing to do with founding the Sanitarium. He tore that thing down. They had to raise about eleven thousand dollars, if I remember right, and that was all thrown away in tearing that building down. Threw it all away. Elder did it to simply wreck that thing. He didn't want to do it, and he afterwards confessed it when we put up that other building. They might have gone on and raised the money and finished the building up. It would not have cost so very much more. We had the foundation laid, and the building up to the first story.
When we got the next building done it cost a great deal more than we expected, and the Elder thought we were going bankrupt sure. We were in debt fifteen thousand dollars, and the Elder felt pretty blue. A testimony came out saying that building was too big and we had been patterning after the world and our furniture was too expensive and all that sort of thing. And there was a footnote in it. Do you remember that little footnote in it which Elder White put onto the testimony, explaining that the cost was due to changes for which Dr. J. H. Kellogg was responsible? Do you remember that also?
Bourdeau: I think I do.
Dr. Kellogg: You remember that, Brother Amadon?
Amadon: I don't just recollect that now, but I know there were some funny things going those days.
Dr. Kellogg: You told me once that you had a copy in your house of that testimony that condemned the building, condemned the furnishings, condemned me as being responsible for it. And James White slipped out of it so as to get it all onto my shoulders.
Amadon: I know something about how the Elder used to do things.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 56 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: Don't you remember that testimony?
Amadon: Perhaps I don't just recall particulars.
Dr. Kellogg: You are hedging. I want to know whether you have got a copy of that testimony or not. Does the truth need to hide?
Amadon: Oh, no, no, no!
Dr. Kelllogg: It was not true at all and never was true about my being responsible for the great cost. I had made a few changes, but the changes saved expense.
I was not responsible at all, but then the testimony said I was responsible. James White put that note in, you see, so as to turn the thing on me--attached it to the testimony, and it went out with the testimony as a part of it.
I mention that simply as an illustration of the old manipulations.
Bourdeau: You were younger and you could bear it.
Dr. Kellogg: I could bear it now better than I could then. This is not a new experience to me. I have had practice in it and training in it. I want to tell you that twelve years ago I had a clear apprehension that just this thing would come that is here, and it has been a worry to me, a worry to me all along the years, for I knew that sooner or later these fraudulent practices in relation to the inner life of this thing would come to the public, and they will come. The Lord helping me, they won't come by me--because my feeling has been that the Lord was dealing with Sister White; and the thing was to be left with the Lord, to let the Lord deal with her. It is not my duty to correct her. I have got faults enough of my own, and she has a right to make mistakes. That does not change my attitude.
Amadon: That is why I feel so about that poor deluded Dr. Stewart--a man comparatively in his youth, attacking that aged woman.
Dr. Kellogg: Well, sir, but he is not to be blamed for it. His experience is responsible for his doing such things. He went to Elder Daniells in confidence and read to him the reply which Mrs. White had invited him to make. She asked him to present his difficulties, and he wrote them out as she requested. You cannot blame him for that. I said to him, "Of course you are justified in writing a reply to Mrs. White. But some of your arguments are sophistical. You do not state your difficulties, but you rub it in. And you hold the thing up and make it picturesque because you have found out some faults. I have frankly told you what I thought of it. It is not best to do that way with reference to anything, but in this particular case it puts Sister White in an entirely wrong light; because here are all the good books she has written, and the good things she has done, and her whole life has been devoted to good works; and you have no right to make those faults conspicuous, to make it appear that that represents the woman, because it does not."
Dr. Kellogg: Don't you remember that testimony?
Amadon: Perhaps I don't just recall particulars.
Dr. Kellogg: You are hedging. I want to know whether you have got a copy of that testimony or not. Does the truth need to hide?
Amadon: Oh, no, no, no!
Dr. Kelllogg: It was not true at all and never was true about my being responsible for the great cost. I had made a few changes, but the changes saved expense.
I was not responsible at all, but then the testimony said I was responsible. James White put that note in, you see, so as to turn the thing on me--attached it to the testimony, and it went out with the testimony as a part of it.
I mention that simply as an illustration of the old manipulations.
Bourdeau: You were younger and you could bear it.
Dr. Kellogg: I could bear it now better than I could then. This is not a new experience to me. I have had practice in it and training in it. I want to tell you that twelve years ago I had a clear apprehension that just this thing would come that is here, and it has been a worry to me, a worry to me all along the years, for I knew that sooner or later these fraudulent practices in relation to the inner life of this thing would come to the public, and they will come. The Lord helping me, they won't come by me--because my feeling has been that the Lord was dealing with Sister White; and the thing was to be left with the Lord, to let the Lord deal with her. It is not my duty to correct her. I have got faults enough of my own, and she has a right to make mistakes. That does not change my attitude.
Amadon: That is why I feel so about that poor deluded Dr. Stewart--a man comparatively in his youth, attacking that aged woman.
Dr. Kellogg: Well, sir, but he is not to be blamed for it. His experience is responsible for his doing such things. He went to Elder Daniells in confidence and read to him the reply which Mrs. White had invited him to make. She asked him to present his difficulties, and he wrote them out as she requested. You cannot blame him for that. I said to him, "Of course you are justified in writing a reply to Mrs. White. But some of your arguments are sophistical. You do not state your difficulties, but you rub it in. And you hold the thing up and make it picturesque because you have found out some faults. I have frankly told you what I thought of it. It is not best to do that way with reference to anything, but in this particular case it puts Sister White in an entirely wrong light; because here are all the good books she has written, and the good things she has done, and her whole life has been devoted to good works; and you have no right to make those faults conspicuous, to make it appear that that represents the woman, because it does not."
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 57 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: That is the reason why I have not had anything to do with that kind of business. Brother Amadon, have I been that kind of a man all my lifetime, hunting up people, pursuing people, picking out faults, holding them up, making them conspicuous?
Amadon: See here. I pray the Lord God to help me forget a great many things. I want to forget them and don't want to keep them present and keep turning them over in my mind. It is not healthy for me. If you can do it, I can't.
Dr. Kellogg: We don't have occasion for it. We don't talk about these things. I don't talk it over. If you go to our colleagues here, they don't know anything about these things. Dr. Stewart don't know half or a quarter of the things I have told you. There doesn't anybody of my colleagues here know but very few of the things I have been telling you here. My wife don't know anything at all about it. I have never talked it over to her.
Bourdeau: The manuscript I read [Stewart's letter] came from the hands of another, and he said it was only just a small portion of what was going to come out. Then they added ten pages to that letter.
Dr. Kellogg: That is the first I have ever heard a word of it. I don't know anything about it at all.
Amadon: Now it is put in type, and a certain person told me he had seen the proof.
Bourdeau: And that whenever she died, a great deal more would come out.
Dr. Kellogg: But why is it it has been coming out? It is because the "testimonies" have been used with such vengeance upon people; because people have been thrashed with them; because the "testimonies" have been used in an unjust way; because there has been manipulation, scheming; that people have got condemned for it. And I cannot restrain Dr. Stewart. I have told Dr. Stewart just what I have told you here of my position, and I have written Sister White again and again, and she has been writing some most vicious things.
When things were going on down here at the Tabernacle, Brother Amadon, and those miserable things were being written in the papers, I knew she would see some of those things. And I wrote her and told her that whatever appeared in the paper she must know I had nothing to do with it, that I refused to see reporters or to have anything to do with them. I sent her word because I did not want her to think I was so mean, contemptible, unmanly and would do such things as that. The Business Men's Association sent a committee to see me, to tell me they would have Elder Daniells arrested if I would permit them to do it.
Amadon: We were there before the business committee.
Dr. Kellogg: But I want you to know they could have done it and would have done it if I would back them up. But I told them I would not back them up one atom in doing a thing. The thing Elder Daniells was doing is recognized by the law as conspiracy, and imprisonment is the punishment for conspiracy. I have just as good legal advice as I wanted to have that those men are carrying on this minute a conspiracy; and I could make it warm for them if I chose to, any minute I chose. You can not get up, get a whole lot of people organized together to run down an institution or a man or a community. Institutions, characters, and businesses are respected and protected from invasion by the government.
Dr. Kellogg: That is the reason why I have not had anything to do with that kind of business. Brother Amadon, have I been that kind of a man all my lifetime, hunting up people, pursuing people, picking out faults, holding them up, making them conspicuous?
Amadon: See here. I pray the Lord God to help me forget a great many things. I want to forget them and don't want to keep them present and keep turning them over in my mind. It is not healthy for me. If you can do it, I can't.
Dr. Kellogg: We don't have occasion for it. We don't talk about these things. I don't talk it over. If you go to our colleagues here, they don't know anything about these things. Dr. Stewart don't know half or a quarter of the things I have told you. There doesn't anybody of my colleagues here know but very few of the things I have been telling you here. My wife don't know anything at all about it. I have never talked it over to her.
Bourdeau: The manuscript I read [Stewart's letter] came from the hands of another, and he said it was only just a small portion of what was going to come out. Then they added ten pages to that letter.
Dr. Kellogg: That is the first I have ever heard a word of it. I don't know anything about it at all.
Amadon: Now it is put in type, and a certain person told me he had seen the proof.
Bourdeau: And that whenever she died, a great deal more would come out.
Dr. Kellogg: But why is it it has been coming out? It is because the "testimonies" have been used with such vengeance upon people; because people have been thrashed with them; because the "testimonies" have been used in an unjust way; because there has been manipulation, scheming; that people have got condemned for it. And I cannot restrain Dr. Stewart. I have told Dr. Stewart just what I have told you here of my position, and I have written Sister White again and again, and she has been writing some most vicious things.
When things were going on down here at the Tabernacle, Brother Amadon, and those miserable things were being written in the papers, I knew she would see some of those things. And I wrote her and told her that whatever appeared in the paper she must know I had nothing to do with it, that I refused to see reporters or to have anything to do with them. I sent her word because I did not want her to think I was so mean, contemptible, unmanly and would do such things as that. The Business Men's Association sent a committee to see me, to tell me they would have Elder Daniells arrested if I would permit them to do it.
Amadon: We were there before the business committee.
Dr. Kellogg: But I want you to know they could have done it and would have done it if I would back them up. But I told them I would not back them up one atom in doing a thing. The thing Elder Daniells was doing is recognized by the law as conspiracy, and imprisonment is the punishment for conspiracy. I have just as good legal advice as I wanted to have that those men are carrying on this minute a conspiracy; and I could make it warm for them if I chose to, any minute I chose. You can not get up, get a whole lot of people organized together to run down an institution or a man or a community. Institutions, characters, and businesses are respected and protected from invasion by the government.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 58 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: The attitude they have taken towards us and their campaign has cost us more than $100,000. It has added a good deal to our burdens, but the Lord has helped us so much we have been able to carry it nevertheless, and there is a brighter future before us today than ever before in our history. We are going right on doing the best we can, and if we cannot do it co-operating with the Seventh-day Adventist people, we will co-operate with all the Christian people we can everywhere. Next month there is going to be a meeting here in Battle Creek of the National Purity Federation.
Amadon: They want the Tabernacle and they are going to have it. We will do all we can to accommodate, Doctor. If we don't get our connections all ready, we will go to one of these factories, get a traction engine to furnish steam to warm that building.
Dr. Kellogg: I told Dr. Geisel I didn't have any doubt the church people would open the Tabernacle for that thing because I didn't see how they could help it. Why are they coming here? It is because the Battle Creek Sanitarium is here. It is the Sanitarium here, and the books I have written, that have brought these people here and showed them the sympathy this institution has with purity and that thing. Dr. Kress is coming from Washington to be here to read a paper. He is coming here to attend that meeting. I presume he will be the guest of the Sanitarium.
Amadon: We let them have that building. That shows our sympathies and interest in a work of that kind.
Dr. Kellogg: Now, then, there it is. They have interest and confidence in the Sanitarium, and you have confidence in them; and it is part of the work of the Sanitarium to promote that thing. We make them guests here of the institution. We are doing that; we are trying to carry on a good work.
The General Conference are fighting us, and they are trying to do all they can to hinder us, to destroy us. They have no ground for destroying people's confidence in the morality of the place. They are trying to make it appear that it is vile place and not a safe place for young people to be.
Amadon: I don't believe that.
Bourdeau: Oh, no, I never heard that.
Dr. Kellogg: If the General Conference Committee will challenge me--I make that statement about that --if they will challenge us to prove it and will call me up in court, I will do it. I will prove that. I can prove that they do say that thing, that they are doing it. Is Irving Keck a liar? Their own ministers are the men I can bring forward as evidence against them.
When W. A. Spicer was in South America, he just went around there telling people tales that are false, and they scattered them about the country, and I know it. Now see here, this is the thing I have to meet.
Amdon: Do you bank on everything McCarthy says?
Dr. Kellogg: No, no. He is a kind of fire brand. And I begged of him to keep still, to stop talking and stop writing and stop sending his letters to the General Conference. It is ridiculous, you know, the whole thing. He is a kind of thorn in their flesh, but I am not to blame for it. He came here and wanted to enter the Medical College to make himself more useful as a missionary, and we have given him a chance to work his way. But I know McCarthy as well as you do. I would not trust him as a spiritual leader. I think he intends to tell the truth, but he talks too fast and so loud; he talks more than he ought to.
Dr. Kellogg: The attitude they have taken towards us and their campaign has cost us more than $100,000. It has added a good deal to our burdens, but the Lord has helped us so much we have been able to carry it nevertheless, and there is a brighter future before us today than ever before in our history. We are going right on doing the best we can, and if we cannot do it co-operating with the Seventh-day Adventist people, we will co-operate with all the Christian people we can everywhere. Next month there is going to be a meeting here in Battle Creek of the National Purity Federation.
Amadon: They want the Tabernacle and they are going to have it. We will do all we can to accommodate, Doctor. If we don't get our connections all ready, we will go to one of these factories, get a traction engine to furnish steam to warm that building.
Dr. Kellogg: I told Dr. Geisel I didn't have any doubt the church people would open the Tabernacle for that thing because I didn't see how they could help it. Why are they coming here? It is because the Battle Creek Sanitarium is here. It is the Sanitarium here, and the books I have written, that have brought these people here and showed them the sympathy this institution has with purity and that thing. Dr. Kress is coming from Washington to be here to read a paper. He is coming here to attend that meeting. I presume he will be the guest of the Sanitarium.
Amadon: We let them have that building. That shows our sympathies and interest in a work of that kind.
Dr. Kellogg: Now, then, there it is. They have interest and confidence in the Sanitarium, and you have confidence in them; and it is part of the work of the Sanitarium to promote that thing. We make them guests here of the institution. We are doing that; we are trying to carry on a good work.
The General Conference are fighting us, and they are trying to do all they can to hinder us, to destroy us. They have no ground for destroying people's confidence in the morality of the place. They are trying to make it appear that it is vile place and not a safe place for young people to be.
Amadon: I don't believe that.
Bourdeau: Oh, no, I never heard that.
Dr. Kellogg: If the General Conference Committee will challenge me--I make that statement about that --if they will challenge us to prove it and will call me up in court, I will do it. I will prove that. I can prove that they do say that thing, that they are doing it. Is Irving Keck a liar? Their own ministers are the men I can bring forward as evidence against them.
When W. A. Spicer was in South America, he just went around there telling people tales that are false, and they scattered them about the country, and I know it. Now see here, this is the thing I have to meet.
Amdon: Do you bank on everything McCarthy says?
Dr. Kellogg: No, no. He is a kind of fire brand. And I begged of him to keep still, to stop talking and stop writing and stop sending his letters to the General Conference. It is ridiculous, you know, the whole thing. He is a kind of thorn in their flesh, but I am not to blame for it. He came here and wanted to enter the Medical College to make himself more useful as a missionary, and we have given him a chance to work his way. But I know McCarthy as well as you do. I would not trust him as a spiritual leader. I think he intends to tell the truth, but he talks too fast and so loud; he talks more than he ought to.
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 59 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: I want to tell you one thing to show you what I have to stand, what I have to meet. Elder Evans came to me and said, "Prof. Prescott made a statement in public about you that was false." I said, "What was it?" He said, "He stood up before the whole church there and stated that you had sold 50,000 copies of Living Temple. When he came down from the pulpit I saw him and I said,'Prof. Prescott, you know yourself there were only 5,000 copies printed.''But,' he says,'I have got a letter that says 50,000 copies.' I said,'Oh, but you know that that is a stenographic error.''But I am not responsible for that."
Now that is the kind of man we have got to deal with, Brother Amadon, by the confession of their own man.
Prof. Prescott wrote an article in the Review that was an absolute falsehood. Some of my children brought it to me and said, "Why, Papa, Prof. Prescott says so and so, and it seems to me it is the very opposite of the truth." When in Washington after I was denounced by that article by Sister White, I had a talk with Prof. Prescott that I told you about.
Amadon: And you say she didn't intend that article for publication?
Dr. Kellogg: No, no. They telegraphed her, "Great crisis; it must be published"--after I stated that I would accept the testimony and would stop the sale of the book. A friend was in the house when the telegram came, and he told me about it. They forced the thing upon her.
A man who has been always rather against us -- they said in a General Conference Committee meeting, and this was told me by a man that was there at the time of the meeting-- they said, "Prof. Prescott, that thing ought to be published." He said, "You trust me: I will see that it is published." So he immediately sent this telegram to Sister White: "Great crisis; must be published." And she reluctantly consented to let it go.
Now I am not sure whether that went before publication or afterwards, but my own impression is that after it was published they sent it as an excuse for publishing it so that she did not have any chance to say anything to the contrary. But I can be in error about that, so I do not make a positive statement with reference to that thing. I said to Prescott, "Prof. Prescott, there was that article you put in the Review; it was not true at all. Even my children saw it wasn't true and brought it to me."
Dr. Kellogg: Then there was an article I had written about the schools and an article that Sister White had written about the schools, and they agreed exactly. And he knew it, and he was in a bad fix and did not know what to do. So he wrote an editorial and said, "Any reader will easily discover the entire disagreement there is between the article of J. H. Kellogg and that of Mrs. E. G. White"--simply a political trick to tell them there was disagreement when there wasn't any at all. I said, "I am surprised to see your article. Tell me where there is any disagreement between my article and Sister White's? My own little children saw that was not straight. How could you do that thing, Prof. Prescott? How could you do that thing?" He said, "You know, Doctor, we have been in a state of war. We do things differently in a state of war from what we do in a state of peace."
Dr. Kellogg: I want to tell you one thing to show you what I have to stand, what I have to meet. Elder Evans came to me and said, "Prof. Prescott made a statement in public about you that was false." I said, "What was it?" He said, "He stood up before the whole church there and stated that you had sold 50,000 copies of Living Temple. When he came down from the pulpit I saw him and I said,'Prof. Prescott, you know yourself there were only 5,000 copies printed.''But,' he says,'I have got a letter that says 50,000 copies.' I said,'Oh, but you know that that is a stenographic error.''But I am not responsible for that."
Now that is the kind of man we have got to deal with, Brother Amadon, by the confession of their own man.
Prof. Prescott wrote an article in the Review that was an absolute falsehood. Some of my children brought it to me and said, "Why, Papa, Prof. Prescott says so and so, and it seems to me it is the very opposite of the truth." When in Washington after I was denounced by that article by Sister White, I had a talk with Prof. Prescott that I told you about.
Amadon: And you say she didn't intend that article for publication?
Dr. Kellogg: No, no. They telegraphed her, "Great crisis; it must be published"--after I stated that I would accept the testimony and would stop the sale of the book. A friend was in the house when the telegram came, and he told me about it. They forced the thing upon her.
A man who has been always rather against us -- they said in a General Conference Committee meeting, and this was told me by a man that was there at the time of the meeting-- they said, "Prof. Prescott, that thing ought to be published." He said, "You trust me: I will see that it is published." So he immediately sent this telegram to Sister White: "Great crisis; must be published." And she reluctantly consented to let it go.
Now I am not sure whether that went before publication or afterwards, but my own impression is that after it was published they sent it as an excuse for publishing it so that she did not have any chance to say anything to the contrary. But I can be in error about that, so I do not make a positive statement with reference to that thing. I said to Prescott, "Prof. Prescott, there was that article you put in the Review; it was not true at all. Even my children saw it wasn't true and brought it to me."
Dr. Kellogg: Then there was an article I had written about the schools and an article that Sister White had written about the schools, and they agreed exactly. And he knew it, and he was in a bad fix and did not know what to do. So he wrote an editorial and said, "Any reader will easily discover the entire disagreement there is between the article of J. H. Kellogg and that of Mrs. E. G. White"--simply a political trick to tell them there was disagreement when there wasn't any at all. I said, "I am surprised to see your article. Tell me where there is any disagreement between my article and Sister White's? My own little children saw that was not straight. How could you do that thing, Prof. Prescott? How could you do that thing?" He said, "You know, Doctor, we have been in a state of war. We do things differently in a state of war from what we do in a state of peace."
Upvote
0
Excerpt # 60 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Kellogg: They went to Sister White, made her believe I was a forger because my name had accidentally gotten onto a note where it ought not to have been because I had filled out a blank note, signed a blank note, to be used for the Medical Missionary Board, and they filled it out for the Mexican Board. I had Judge Arthur send them a full explanation about it. They never went to Sister White with it. After the conference was over she stood up there before them and berated me, told them I was a forger and went on at a great rate.
Elder Daniells took a shorthand report of that thing, and he took it all over to Europe. And when I was over to Europe I found men he had shown that to and read it to, to prove I was a dishonest man and a knave, for "the Lord has said it." 'Well, do you believe the Lord actually said that?" "Well, this is a shorthand report. Of course this has not been revised. But this is the way it came."
I want to tell you that is a diabolical fraud. To get a dear old lady like Sister White, to get her to make that statement in public, then take it down in shorthand--take that shorthand report all around the world and say, "The Lord has spoken." You know as well as I do that that is dastardly, that that is contemptible knavery, and that there is not any word bad enough to characterize that kind of deception--to carry it all over the world to deceive people and make them believe things that are false.
They wrote to Mrs. White herself, and she told a falsehood about me because she has been misinformed, deceived about it. My brother Merritt went up there and had a talk with her awhile ago, and she said to Merritt, "Dr. Kellogg can not tell the truth. He is naturally a liar. He always has been." He said, "Why, Sister White, how can you say that of him? What has he said that was not the truth?" She said, "He said that he would stop selling the Living Temple and he did not stop. He has gone right on and sold 10,000 copies more." And she has told that around. They have told her so, made her believe it. I don't hold the old lady responsible for it.
Dr. Kellogg: They went to Sister White, made her believe I was a forger because my name had accidentally gotten onto a note where it ought not to have been because I had filled out a blank note, signed a blank note, to be used for the Medical Missionary Board, and they filled it out for the Mexican Board. I had Judge Arthur send them a full explanation about it. They never went to Sister White with it. After the conference was over she stood up there before them and berated me, told them I was a forger and went on at a great rate.
Elder Daniells took a shorthand report of that thing, and he took it all over to Europe. And when I was over to Europe I found men he had shown that to and read it to, to prove I was a dishonest man and a knave, for "the Lord has said it." 'Well, do you believe the Lord actually said that?" "Well, this is a shorthand report. Of course this has not been revised. But this is the way it came."
I want to tell you that is a diabolical fraud. To get a dear old lady like Sister White, to get her to make that statement in public, then take it down in shorthand--take that shorthand report all around the world and say, "The Lord has spoken." You know as well as I do that that is dastardly, that that is contemptible knavery, and that there is not any word bad enough to characterize that kind of deception--to carry it all over the world to deceive people and make them believe things that are false.
They wrote to Mrs. White herself, and she told a falsehood about me because she has been misinformed, deceived about it. My brother Merritt went up there and had a talk with her awhile ago, and she said to Merritt, "Dr. Kellogg can not tell the truth. He is naturally a liar. He always has been." He said, "Why, Sister White, how can you say that of him? What has he said that was not the truth?" She said, "He said that he would stop selling the Living Temple and he did not stop. He has gone right on and sold 10,000 copies more." And she has told that around. They have told her so, made her believe it. I don't hold the old lady responsible for it.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
