The Interview with Dr. Kellogg

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 36 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg


Dr. Kellogg: That is what I am telling you, Brother Amadon. It is the fraud in this thing, the terrible fraud, that is going to be brought to judgment and is being brought to judgment now. And you will find that it is coming right straight to the book; that the Seventh-day Adventist preachers, the ministers and you yourself and other people have used these "testimonies" in such a way as to make the common people believe that every word was an inspired word.

What you have just said just now you would hardly like to have appear in print over your name in the Review and Herald paper.

Amadon: I don't know about that because I don't apply that to the Testimonies of the church. I say, no, bless your dear soul.

Dr. Kellogg: But we were talking about the testimonies now.

Bourdeau: Then, in a private letter.

Dr. Kellogg: Then I will ask you about the second question. Why did you say a little while ago, "That has been explained"? Why doesn't he say simply, "That was a private letter and that was an error"? That is what I said to W. C. White at the time. W.C. White said,

"You talk in such a way as to destroy faith in the Testimonies."

Then he went on to explain about this building in Chicago. Now I said to W.C. White, "I am never going to admit that was from the Lord because it was not, and you know it was not; and you didn't believe it until after you saw the newspaper article. And then you let it come along because you thought it would do no harm. So do not try to make me say it was from the Lord when it was not."

I said, "I am perfectly willing to admit your mother can make mistakes and that it would not interfere with my respect for her or her work. But I am not going to say a mistake is a prophecy. I am not going to say an error is the truth in order to hold this thing up, for it is not the way to hold it up. The proper way to hold it up is to let the truth stand on its merits. Whatever is truth will stand."

Amadon: Doctor, don't you think really the Lord has made a mistake right here? You know Sister White has to have somebody to help her in her work. She needs assistance. It has been revealed to her that Will would be help. Now hasn't the Lord really made a mistake in that, and hadn't He ought to have chosen somebody else and not W.C. White? And really isn't the error with the Lord?

Dr. Kellogg: Why do you ask me that question? What have I said that leads you to ask me such an absurd thing as that?

Amadon: You say Will is responsible largely for this condition of things; and you bring up this, that he manipulates these testimonies in a way to suit himself. I say, now hasn't the Lord made a mistake about that?

Dr. Kellogg: He is just as straight as Daniells, Prescott, and a lot of those other fellows that are going out and holding up things that are not the infallible word from the Lord and making people believe it is.

Amadon: Hadn't the Lord ought to have chosen Dr.J. H. Kellogg to do that, and the thing would have been all right? But instead of that He has chosen W.C. White, and Will manipulates them in a way to suit himself as he likes.

Dr. Kellogg: Why do you ask me such an insulting question as that? I have not said a word about Will for some time. I have only been telling you the truth and things he told me, and I think he told me the truth. If Will is condemned, it is the facts that condemn him.

 

[Castaway57]

"But there are times when common things must be stated, common thoughts must occupy the mind, common letters must be written and information given that has passed from one to another of the workers. Such words, such information, are not given under the special inspiration of the Spirit of God. Questions are asked at times that are not upon religious subjects at all, and these questions must be answered. We converse about houses and lands, trades to be made, and locations for our institutions, their advantages and disadvatages." E.G. White, 1 S.M.39

Lol, yes, there is a quote for everything; yet the quotes stilll need to be in context, and used correctly.

1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Sky, when you use Ellen White or Jone's writing to turn them against the church in such voracious opposition; there is just no way any Christian can believe your great assemblages of quotes. The church has never been something that one can just dissemble with a plethora of the "right" quotes, for those quotes are only valid when used "lawfully," as the Bible would put it, when talking about the law.

The Bible is clear that not even the very gates of hell can prevail against the Church; and thats not "papal;" thats Biblical.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 37 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: That has been the method of procedure right straight along, from his father down, and I know it and can give any amount of proof of it. And if you or the General Conference Committee should give me a challenge for the proof, and you want the proof furnished, I will meet your challenge. When you want to dispute my word about this thing, and the General Conference Committee wants to come up and challenge me to do this thing, I will do it, sir, and the world will hear it. But you will not get it unless you challenge me. But when you do challenge me you will get it sure. That is the only condition on which you ever will get it. If you want the public to know all the facts about this thing, you have it by asking for it. But I am not going to come out voluntarily and attack a lot of people that are being fooled and being bamboozled.

If the Lord permits that thing to go on, it can go on. I am not going to interfere with that thing. But it is a miserable, contemptible game that is being played. I can take no other attitude about it, and no other position with reference to it except to denounce the things that I know are untrue and to say a thing that is not the truth is a lie. I can do no other thing.

Amadon: It seems to me that is a pretty hard thing to say, that we are being fooled, bamboozled, by believing these things are testimonies and so on when they are not.

K: I have not said that. But you yourself have said that a letter from Mrs. White is not necessarily from the Lord. These men have gotten up some documents that you yourself have referred to as having come from the Lord with reference to my attitude toward the Tabernacle. That was just the kind of letter--gotten up by Will from private letters written by Mrs. White, gotten up by W.C. White--that you have by your own word here referred to as a statement from the Lord.

Amadon: That is not wholly correct, not absolutely. When we were at the Berrien Springs meeting in the spring of 1906, the message came from the Lord, and Will White was not there, and I don't suppose he knew anything about it--perhaps he did not--stating to look out for the Tabernacle, to look out for the Tabernacle. Now that was signed by Mrs. E.G. White. Daniells had that and read that. That was at the Berrien Springs meeting the first of May, 1906. Will didn't have anything to do with that. What you refer to is a letter he wrote to Daniells, and it came about this way--you know it, I guess. You have had it and read it.

Dr. Kellogg: There was nothing in that testimony that said I was trying to get the Tabernacle. That is not the thing. I was trying to get possession of the Tabernacle by adroit scheming, and she feared that in spite of all I would get it.

Amadon: That is the one signed by W.C. White, and I guess there are four or five quotations from her writings relating to this Tabernacle property.

Dr. Kellogg: Certainly, and you say it is just between me and Sister White.

Amadon: Yes, I say so. Isn't it so?

Dr. Kellogg: Charging me that the Lord had said that thing, and I am denying it. You refer to that as a testimony. I present that as one of the evidences of the fraud that is being perpetrated. They will give Sister White misinformation, just as she got misinformation from the newspaper and others who have written her. Then she writes letters, sent out and used as a word from the Lord when the Lord has not said a word about it, when the Lord has had nothing at all to do with it. And you yourself have been doing it right here today.

Amadon: If his mother tells him, "You go to my old correspondence, and you copy out certain things where I have spoken with reference to the Tabernacle"--I cannot see how that is perverting or misusing the testimonies.

Dr. Kellogg: Those were private letters to private persons, every one of them, and in not a single instance did she say, "The Lord has shown me this." These were all from personal private correspondence with individuals.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 38 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Bourdeau: We have had considerable to contend with in regard to the Tabernacle of late.

Dr. Kellogg: I am not speaking about that. I have nothing to do with that.

Bourdeau: That one that has started the thing against us, he referred to the Sanitarium as our trying to shut out the Sanitarium and so on in our by-law, and I don't see a thing in the by-law that does it.

Dr. Kellogg: Well, you have spoken of Mr. Belden. I just wanted to repeat what I have said before, that you yourselves here this very afternoon have used this private correspondence of Sister White, that you admit may be from the Lord or may not be from the Lord.

Amadon: I say she is not absolutely infallible. I don't mean by that, Doctor, as applying to the testimonies. But I say, suppose in her private life as a woman that she writes as she used to, to her children--you know I don't regard that as the inspiration of God. That is what I mean.

Dr. Kellogg: Yet, right here today you have been using against me as a testimony a document signed by W.C. White, which is simply compiled from her personal letters and in which there is not a single word saying, "The Lord has shown me this," or "The Lord has shown me that." That was read in the Tabernacle as proof that I was doing it, and that thing has been sent all over the world by the Conference machinery as proof that the Lord has condemned me for doing it, that I was playing dirty tricks in trying to get possession of the Tabernacle.

Amadon: I know it.

Dr. Kellogg: I found it in Europe when I was there. I was there last spring, and it was there then. That thing came several weeks before I went to Europe, and it was sent out there, and it was gotten up for that purpose. It was a circular letter that Will White compiled, and it has been sent all over as a proof that I was doing it.

Now, then, I want to say that thing is a libel, that it is a lie right straight through, that I have never wanted a thing to do with the Tabernacle, that I have said to everybody concerned with me at the Sanitarium "Let it alone, keep aloof from it." If you will call upon F. Belden, put him on the witness stand, he will tell you that I have appealed to him by the hour and with tears in my eyes to let the thing alone, and he finally was notified that if he did not let it alone he would be discharged from the employ of the Modern Medicine Publishing Company. And he has been discharged, and he is in no way connected with the Modern Medicine Company. I told him, and I sent a letter to my brother WKK.

Amadon: I heard that and didn't believe it. I heard you gave him a regular lambasting, and I thought,
"That is a story that is going around," and I did not believe a word of it.

K: You will find out sometime or other that there are some people around the Sanitarium that have respect for their word and for their standing and character.

And these fellows that are going around the world apparently to damage and cast smut upon us are doing a dirty business that Christian people have no business to do even if they were working upon facts. But they are going upon presumptions, upon snap judgments, and upon suspicion just as you yourself have been doing. I have been held up to the people of this town in the newspapers here as trying to get possession of the Tabernacle. I could bring a suit for libel against every one of those people, against Elder Daniells, Prof. Prescott and the Review & Herald, and more than a hundred people in this town.

 

[Castaway57]

And these fellows that are going around the world apparently to damage and cast smut upon us are doing a dirty business that Christian people have no business to do even if they were working upon facts. But they are going upon presumptions, upon snap judgments, and upon suspicion just as you yourself have been doing. I have been held up to the people of this town in the newspapers here as trying to get possession of the Tabernacle. I could bring a suit for libel against every one of those people, against Elder Daniells, Prof. Prescott and the Review & Herald, and more than a hundred people in this town.

There are so many people who say this very kind of thing about our's or some other church; it's not even believable anymore. Kellog, like you, presents not one iota of evidence, only his personal say-so. Hmmm, what does the Bible tell us about that?

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 39 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: I won't belittle myself by noticing the bark of a dog as I go down the street, and I won't notice in any other way the horrible things these people are saying. They have succeeded in keeping the denominational people away from the Sanitarium. Whom have they hurt? We have got the Sanitarium full of patients and our classes full of young people of the Baptists and Methodists and Presbyterians and others who are willing to work on the same conditions the others worked on, just for the principles they are getting. And they are going out into the world as missionaries with the principles that the Lord has given to this people but which they have despised. It is a hard job I have had in trying to hold up the principles of health reform and principles of physical righteousness in this town.

Amadon: I believe that, Doctor.

Dr. Kellogg: I have stood true as steel with the Lord's help to those principles, and I have held them up before the people, gone from camp meeting to camp meeting, gone this whole denomination over and never a cent did I receive even for my traveling expenses, even when I was in debt and borrowing money. And I never had one cent--the General Conference calling me here and there, states calling me here and there, and never paid one penny of even my traveling expenses, hotel expenses or anything else.

Many a time have I got on a camp-ground early in the morning and just worked all day when we had no doctors here as we have today, so I had to hurry back--work all day long until night time, taking the stand when I got a chance, working in the tents for sick people to try to show them how to correct their habits with that provision stand on the ground selling sausage, halibut, herring, and the most abominable things, everything but pork and coffee and tea in the provision tent--doing the best I could to hold up the principles when they were scoffing and making fun of it--and the ministers even, from the top down to the smallest man, ridiculing me--working all day without a morsel of food, without anybody offering me a morsel of food. Then I got aboard the train at night and thanked the Lord for the opportunity of helping sick people, giving them a little light. And I have not changed.

Amadon: Doctor, we believe that is all written down in God's book of remembrance to your credit.

Dr. Kellogg: I don't deserve any credit for it. I don't want any credit for it. I could not do anything else. I could not do anything else. Now, then, I am doing the same thing now as far as I can. I am going on doing just the same as I did. I have not changed. I would do that same thing among the Adventist people now if they were not building up barriers against me, turning the hearts of the people away, making them believe I am a pantheist when I am not, making them think I am a seducer of women when I am not.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 40 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Amadon: We don't believe that contemptible wicked stuff, Doctor.

Dr. Kellogg: I will tell you why I bring it up. When we appointed a committee of fifteen to investigate the institution here--the General Conference appointed a committee--they had charged me with frauds and various things in the General Conference of 1903 at Oakland. I publicly stood up before the General Conference, and I said, "We are willing to be investigated. We are willing to be investigated, but we will not have a star-chamber investigation. We must have a public investigation." That committee never appeared. The man who was appointed chairman of the committee in a little while gave up the truth, was convicted of all kinds of irregularities, and the committee never appeared.

Elder Daniells--when I was down in Washington, when they charged me with being a pantheist and denounced my book--Elder Daniells stood up there, and he said, "Dr. Kellogg will not allow the Sanitarium to be investigated." (I said,) "You appointed a committee yourself. When did your committee appear?" They have never appeared.

I want to say to you--and I said it right there before the whole General Conference--"We are ready to be investigated any time publicly, but we will have no private investigation. We will have a public investigation where everybody can be present and know not simply the conclusions of the committee, but the facts upon which their conclusions are based."

I said, "Appoint another committee and come on and make all the investigations you want to." After the Berrien Springs meeting, I got W.C. White to come down here by very hard work. I labored with him for hours by telephone to get him to come here after the Berrien Springs meeting, met him with our entire Board, talked with him until three o'clock in the morning to persuade him to bring the whole General Conference Committee here, to bring all the preachers here, get as many people as he could or as he wanted here. But he said he would not have a great audience like that and have people getting up here and making speeches. I said, "Bring the General Conference Committee here, then, and see how much of this is true. We are ready to admit all that is true. We are ready to face all that is true. We are willing to correct anything that is wrong. Bring the General Conference Committee here and show us this thing." He promised me he would do it.

I will tell you a little information that will help you to see the real situation in a minute. Dr. Morse was the secretary at that meeting. He took the minutes of that meeting. I asked W.C. White to have all the preachers come here to Battle Creek and show us our faults, and we would admit everything that was wrong and straighten up and go on. I said, "Your mother has said we ought to have harmony, and we are ready for it, but we must have it on a sound basis, on a basis of truth and sincerity, and we cannot have it on any other basis. I cannot confess I have done what I have not done, but come here and let us go into the whole thing."

Sister White told these men, Elder Amadon, and you know it, to make no conditions. They did not even come to us and offer peace with any kind of conditions. She told them to make none, and they never came near us.

When Prof. Prescott came, when I saw he denied the truth and was not in a state of mind to do anything, I telephoned to W.C. White and begged him to have Daniells, Evans, Prescott, Butler, Haskell --the leading men--come over right after the Berrien Springs meeting. They would not do it. They hadn't time; they all had to get away. I got W.C. White here and begged him to have all the preachers come. "No." Then I said, "Have the presidents of the conferences come and the General Conference." "No, that would make too big an audience." Then I said, "Have the General Conference Committee come"; and about three o'clock in the morning he agreed to try, that he would do all he could to do it.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 41 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: Dr. Morse, after several days elapsed, wrote a copy of the resolutions that was passed in the Board [meeting], inviting the General Conference to come here and to have this conference and see if we could not settle up all our difficulties, because Sister White had a testimony that the Lord showed we ought to do it. I wanted to go straight along in trying to accomplish that thing, so I said, "Let the committee come."

Dr. Morse wrote out the copy of the resolution, and he made a mistake. The resolution as passed by our Board was that the General Conference Committee should be invited to come, but Dr. Morse in writing that resolution had made it read: "The General Conference Committee and the presidents of the conferences and all the leading ministers."

Now Will White had never agreed to that. Dr. Morse wrote the letter, and I never knew it until afterwards. He wrote the letter to W.C. White and enclosed a copy of the resolution. And W.C. White never replied, but instead came a testimony from Sister White commanding the General Conference Committee and these leading brethren, saying there had been a call for such and such a meeting here and commanding the brethren not to come, that the Lord didn't want any such thing held in Battle Creek, that the Medical Missionary Board, whenever there had been any such council held, had always come out ahead and bragged that they came out ahead. She sent that testimony, and that is the answer we got.

This testimony said we had called for a large meeting there at Battle Creek. Now, then, you see that whole thing was based on Dr. Morse's blunder in that thing. We never had a hint that he had made a blunder in writing to W.C. White about it, but Sister White had taken that letter as the basis of that testimony. And the Lord never told her we had called for such a meeting because we hadn't. It was Dr. Morse's blunder.

That thing told me right away that the Lord had never instructed her to not permit such a great gathering, for we had never asked for such a great gathering. It was purely a clerical error--Dr. Morse's blunder.

That General Conference Committee would not come. I happen to know why. After the Berrien Springs meeting Mrs. Druillard was at Nashville, and I got messages from her and from Sarah every little while of what was going on when Sister White was at Nashville. You know Mrs. Druillard to be a sober woman. She is not a trifling woman, is she? Do you believe she is a woman that would lie?

Amadon: No, I don't believe she is.

Dr. Kellogg: Mrs. Druillard sent me a message and said, "For pity sakes, be careful what you say." She told me that "Sister White is getting letters almost every day from Elder Daniells and others telling the awful things you are saying, that you are telling what a great victory you had over at Berrien Springs, how you came out ahead, and all that sort of thing. And now you are going to have them come to Battle Creek and bragging all about it. And she is getting letters from Elder Daniells every day telling what you are saying."

It was all a lie, every bit of it. But somebody picked up the gossip going about and sent that down, and it wasn't a word of it true. But here comes this testimony from Sister White, warning them not to come because I wanted to get them up here simply to have a victory over them and to crow over them just as I was crowing over them with reference to Berrien Springs. Now the Lord did not have anything to do with that, because it was based on untruths. The first of it was based on error, and the second on untruths that were being poured into her ears continually.

 

[Castaway57]

You make Dr Kellog, the "man" you depend upon, then tell us to not depend upon man for our understanding of Bible truth - speaking of which you have almost no scripture in this thread anyways. May the Lord bless you, and keep you; and make His face to shine upon you, is my prayer, in Jesus' name.

 

[Castaway57]

And these fellows that are going around the world apparently to damage and cast smut upon us are doing a dirty business that Christian people have no business to do even if they were working upon facts. But they are going upon presumptions, upon snap judgments, and upon suspicion just as you yourself have been doing. I have been held up to the people of this town in the newspapers here as trying to get possession of the Tabernacle. I could bring a suit for libel against every one of those people, against Elder Daniells, Prof. Prescott and the Review & Herald, and more than a hundred people in this town.

Kellog was obviously not even trying to get along or come to agreement. He wanted exactly what you preach to us here that we should not do.

I.Conflict With Kellogg​

The first decade of the twentieth century was particularly difficult for the Adventist Church. Ellen White repeatedly advised against the concentration of church institutions in Battle Creek. The burning of the sanitarium and the publishing house in 1902 were seen by some as retribution for disregarding her advice. Perhaps more difficult than the fires that pushed the General Conference and the Review and Herald to Washington, D.C., was the conflict between church leaders and Dr. John H. Kellogg.​

An able physician and famous surgeon, John Harvey Kellogg wrote more than 50 books, mostly on medical topics. He directed the Battle Creek Sanitarium from 1876 until his death in 1943. As an ardent proponent of health reform, Kellogg advocated hydrotherapy, exercise, and a vegetarian diet. As an inventor, he devised machines for physical therapy, formulated early meat analogs, and concocted the first corn flakes, which his brother W. K. Kellogg later commercialized. From 1895 to 1910 he directed the American Medical Missionary College in Chicago. His medical mission in Chicago included a workingmen’s home, with inexpensive food and lodging; a home for unwed or destitute mothers; various clinics; an employment agency for released prisoners; and a mail-order catalog store.​

In 1894 Battle Creek personnel opened the Guadalajara Clinic in Mexico, the first of Adventist medical ventures outside the United States. The early endeavors grew into a mission school and sanitarium. This institution, as well as those in Battle Creek and Chicago belonged to Kellogg’s International Medical Missionary and Benevolent Society and not to the Seventh-day Adventist Church.​

Kellogg acted independently of the advice of church leaders. Repeatedly, Ellen White implored him to follow instructions. When the Battle Creek Sanitarium burned, church leaders urged him to rebuild only one building, not to exceed five stories in height and 450 feet in length. When the construction commenced, it became evident that Kellogg had followed his own plan for a much larger, more ornate structure than the one agreed upon. Kellogg’s book, The Living Temple, published in 1903, contained elements of pantheism. When reprimanded by Ellen White for his unorthodox writing, Kellogg separated from the church. The institutions under his International Medical Missionary and Benevolent Society went with him.​

http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1 http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftnref1
Dederen, R. (2001, c2000). Vol. 12: Handbook of Seventh-Day Adventist Theology (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Commentary Reference Series (12). Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association.



​

​

 

[rainbowinthesky]

castaway wrote: "You make Dr Kellog, the "man" you depend upon, then tell us to not depend upon man for our understanding of Bible truth - speaking of which you have almost no scripture in this thread anyways."
__________________________

I am not putting my trust in any man whether it be Dr. kellogg of A.T. Jones. What i am doing is giving a chance for these men, after more than a century, to be heard at last, for the General Conference denied them a hearing and condemned them in their absence being judges in their own case!

And you endorse their actions?

But you quote a man of the conference as authority and you cannot see that A.G. Daniells, Prescott, Evans, and W.C. White, the ring leaders in apostasy, were plotting against Dr. kellogg and brother Jones by giving Mrs. White false reports about these men and, with the help of W.C. White, manufactured testimonies with her signature attached to them in order to condemn these godly men just as the men of the Sanhedrin plotted against Christ and His followers.

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 42 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: This man Evans came into this room voluntarily and told me that Daniells and Prescott and White had organized a conspiracy and combined together to ruin me and would do it if they could. And he said, "I believe I have letters to prove it."

In three weeks he was down there, had joined hands with them and was working at it. I have come pretty nearly telling them of that on two or three public occasions when I have had to meet them and when the fellow was sitting there doing knavish things, when he was sitting there trying to work through schemes that were false and evil, and he knew it--I have come pretty near telling it to them right to his face. The Lord knows it, and he has got that thing to meet in the judgment.

I found out afterwards what it was. He was out with these men. I said to Judge Arthur, "Do you believe that is really true?" "Why, certainly. He told me the same thing just the other day." And he said he never seen such a vindictive spirit in his life on the part of any man as Daniells, Prescott and W.C. White had toward Dr. Kellogg. That is just what he told me at that time.

I found he was having a quarrel with them. They wanted him to go to Washington and they were not offering him the position he wanted. So he went off on the sulks, went up to his home on the farm and they came to terms. He was here for me to make a bid for him to work at the Sanitarium. But I did not bite onto his bait. It was hinted to me by several of his friends that if he were offered a position at the Sanitarium as general manager he would be very glad to come. I never would offer him such a thing in the world, for I know the man. The man had been untrue right straight along. He told me himself that Daniells did not have full confidence in him. Now why? He had been crooked in a good many things.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt 43 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: When Daniells was a member of the Medical Missionary Board, just a little while before our fire, in the winter before our fire here in 1902, we had a Board meeting. I had a testimony from Sister White with reference to a certain matter that had been under controversy with me for a number of years. She said that about eight or nine years ago she sent a testimony that I was to do certain things--that I could not do. She told me that I had robbed, that I had done certain things.

Well, it was about the College View Bakery. When they started the college out there, they wanted permission to manufacture the health foods, wanted us to give them a bakery, wanted to sell to everybody west of the Mississippi River, and we said, "If you are going into a large business, you must agree that if we start a sanitarium there a little later the business must be turned over to the sanitarium, because they will need it to help build up the sanitarium. You must agree that the sanitarium shall have it." And it was agreed to. And later when the sanitarium was started, I asked them to turn the bakery over.

The General Conference Committee owned the whole thing then, or the General Conference Association, and I wrote them a letter about it. And they appointed a committee which looked into the matter and made their report that the thing should be turned over according to the agreement. The members of this committee were John H. Harrison, he was one, Prescott was one of the men, and they looked into the facts of the case from the beginning and said it should be turned over. And by and by -- One man, Jo Sutherland, was the treasurer of the college, and the Sanitarium and the bakery. The bakery was named the Nebraska Sanitarium Bakery, and bore a picture of the Sanitarium on every package, and the sign was over the door.

Now Brother Jo Sutherland was treasurer for all these things, you see. Uncle Jo. And he was to turn over the money at the end of the year. Kauble went out there and took charge, and when Kauble took charge he said, "Here, the college is running that thing. That is the college building, and that belongs to us. We are not going to turn that over."

They had three thousand dollars on hand, and they would not turn a cent of it over. Then it was brought up with the Conference. I labored with the committee, and the committee laughed at me and said they would not do a thing. And I told them I should bring it before the General Conference, and I did. And when I brought it before the General Conference, I did not say much. I only opened their record, and they saw the resolution. No, I didn't know they had a record. I did not use the record first, but at the beginning of the meeting I set the secretary to work to see if he could find the record.

John Morrison made a speech in behalf of the college, saying they ought to own the bakery. And Santee came in and read a testimony over Sister White's signature saying the food business should be used to support the colleges. The thing was so utterly absurd I did not pay any attention to it, but I sat there while he read that testimony. I sat on the front seat, and Santee sat on the back seat, and when he arose he said, "Before I begin my remarks I wish to ask Dr. Kellogg this question: Dr. Kellogg, do you believe the Testimonies?"

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 44 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: I didn't say a word. I simply sat there and kept still. I said nothing at all, simply sat there. He waited a long time, and everybody shuffled their feet, cleared their throats out a great deal, and he waited as much as ten minutes, and it got to be very painful. Finally he said, "Mr. Chairman, I wish to know whether Dr. Kellogg is going to answer my question." He said, "Do you have anything to say?" I said, "I have nothing to say except that the question is irrelevant." The chairman said, "I think so, too." So he went on and read the testimony from Sister White in which she said that the profits of the food business should be used for supporting the colleges.

Now I knew the Lord never showed her that. And the rest of them knew it. And I knew they had gotten a letter--She did not say the Lord had shown her that, but they simply read that letter over her name and tried to work it on me as a statement from the Lord that the profits of the food businesses should be used for the support of the colleges. I knew better, and I was not going to bow my head to such stuff as that, and nobody there paid any attention to it. And not a single member of the General Conference Association, not a soul of them, paid an atom of attention to that thing.

Then John Morrison spoke an hour trying to prove that the food business belonged to the college and that they should have it. And he swung his arms, frothed at the mouth, and went on until everybody was sick of it. He said, "If you do this thing, if you take that bakery from the college, it will ruin it." And so he went on at a great rate. When he got through talking, I made a very short speech. I stated simply what I have stated to you about the agreement at the beginning, and I said, "The secretary has been looking the matter over, and I have asked the men to do as they agreed to do, and I understand the secretary is able to read a report of the meeting." And he read the report of that meeting.

They had received my letter, read my letter, and there it was. Then they appointed a committee consisting of John Morrison, Prof. Prescott, and A. R. Henry, and this committee brought in their report and John Morrison, the chairman of the meeting, reported that the bakery should be turned over to the Sanitarium according to the agreement. And here was the man here not on his feet making a speech on the other side of it, you know. There was his own evidence. It knocked him flat, you know. I didn't have to say anything more. The meeting voted unanimously to turn it over and do as they agreed. And he and Westphal and Santee were the only persons in the room that did not vote in favor of doing it.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 45 of the Interview with Dr. kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: Now Santee went out West, and he began to tell around everywhere out there that I hypnotized the General Conference--that is where my hypnotic influence began--and that I had intimidated them, and that they were so afraid to do anything against my wishes, that they were just forced. I had forced them to do this unrighteous thing--that I had robbed the college. And he was reporting it around in the loudest kind of way, and they were talking about having a split out there, about taking a stand against the General Conference. And they were just ready to go right into rebellion over it.

Well, I met Haskell, and Haskell was there, a patient stopping there. He had been sick and was having a little treatment, so John Morrison and the rest of them had a chance to talk with him. And I saw him and had a talk with him, and he said "Of course, you are right about that. They ought to do what they agreed. The Sanitarium Food Business belongs to the Sanitarium, is a part of it. Of course, it is. And they ought to have it. That is right."

I said, "Now, Elder Haskell, I want to tell you something. I am not a prophet, but I am going to prophesy. Santee will write to Sister White, and he will tell her just what he is telling over the country. Pretty soon I will get a testimony condemning me for my attitude and demanding that I shall turn that bakery back to the college." "Oh," he said, "you will never get any such thing as that." I said, "It will come as sure as fate, for nearly every testimony I have had in the last four or five years has come in just that way." "Oh, you are mistaken; the Lord could not tell such a thing as that."

In less than three months' time the testimony came, saying, "You have robbed the College View college. You have disgraced yourself by that thing, by your attitude in that thing. The General Conference should have been ashamed to allow you to intimidate them. One was present and heard your threatening words."

And I was commanded to turn that thing back quick, and the General Conference was commanded to rescind their action quick. And I want to tell you they have never done it to this minute.

Bourdeau: Never tried to?

Dr. Kellogg: No, sir. And I didn't either. I wrote Sister White back and said, "Sister White, you have been misinformed about this thing."

But I was going to tell you--I sent that testimony to Haskell immediately, and I said, "Now, Haskell, it has come. Here it is. I enclose it." I got a letter back from him. "Well, I am surprised. I thought you were certainly right about that College View matter." And he thinks so yet.

The thing went further than that. She sent a letter to Elder Haskell and one to Elder Irwin, sent a letter to them enclosing the testimony to them and sent me a copy here. And in that letter to them she said, "Elder Haskell and Brother Irwin, I say to you, take a firm stand against Dr. Kellogg in this matter." I said to Elder Haskell, "I suppose of course you will take a firm stand against me now." He said, "I shall do no such thing." [Yet] he was commanded to do it by "the Lord"!

That testimony was written with all the solemnity of any testimony you ever saw. "One was present and heard your threatening words." Now who was that one? I had Mr. Eldred there, our reporter who was taking down every word that was spoken. I saw Eldred directly afterwards and said, "Have you got this letter, testimony, from Sister White?" "Yes." I said, "What were the threatening words I said down there?" He said, "I didn't hear you say any threatening words."

I said to Elder Irwin, "Were you intimidated by anything I said?" He said, "No. The thing that led them to take their action was that resolution on the books. That is what led me to act as I did."

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Excerpt # 46 of the Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Dr. Kellogg: Now I sent a copy of that to every one of the persons present at that meeting, a copy of that testimony to me, and I did it to open their eyes. There was a testimony, with all the solemnity of anything that was ever written in the world, and it said, "One was present and heard your threatening words," and the One was capitalized with O. It said that the General Conference was commanded to reverse its action. I sent a copy of that to every person present at that meeting, and I said, "I did not intend to say anything threatening at all, but if you understood anything I said to be a threat or intimidation, I wish to withdraw it, and I want you to revise your action and act as you would have done if I had not threatened or said any such thing."

I confess it was all farce on my part because I knew I had not said any threatening words, and it was a decoy letter; it was to get from them an expression of views. And I sent that letter to them and sent the testimony to them so that they might have a chance to see what kind of testimonies I was getting, for every one of them knew I had not said a threatening word or hinted a threat. I simply sat still, and Morrison was the man that threatened me. And I did not threaten anything at all. I didn't have to. All I had to do was to present the facts, and that settled it, and they all voted for what I asked. They stand by it today, and the College View bakery is owned by the Sanitarium there today. They have it yet, and the college has not got it. The thing stands just as it was done then.

I got letters back from Cottrell and from other men saying, "I didn't hear you say any threatening words." "I was not intimidated." But Robert Kilgore, who took the real orthodox position--Robert wrote a letter and said, "I didn't know I was intimidated, I didn't hear any threatening word, but if the Lord says I was intimidated, I shall immediately confess that I was a coward."

Now you see the point: "If the Lord said it." The only question is, when does the Lord speak? But if Robert Kilgore or anybody else is going to say every time they get a letter signed by Mrs. E.G. White that the Lord has spoken, then I want to say there are a whole lot of things to be explained.

Now, then, I waited to see what those men would do about it. Those men ought immediately to have called a meeting of the General Conference Association, and they should have rescinded that action and should have made that thing straight as the Lord commanded them because there was a solid testimony ordering them to do it. But they never did do it. And they did not dare to do it, for Irwin knew that the minute he called that conference together and read that testimony, and undertook to consider it, he knew the fat would be in the fire right away. For every man there would have had to say there was nothing in it, that the foundation was bogus. They would have to face the minutes of the meeting. They would have to face that report. Irwin knows that.

When I got the letter from Sister White, I wrote her quietly without giving her any explanation at all, that I would leave her with the Lord, let the Lord deal with her, for there she was talking in the name of the Lord to me. I said, "You profess to have information direct from the Lord." So I simply left her with the Lord. I simply wrote back, "You have been misinformed." I got another letter back from her, and I want to tell you it was the most stinging letter that I ever had from her in my life.

 

[Castaway57]

castaway wrote: "You make Dr Kellog, the "man" you depend upon, then tell us to not depend upon man for our understanding of Bible truth - speaking of which you have almost no scripture in this thread anyways."
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I am not putting my trust in any man whether it be Dr. kellogg of A.T. Jones. What i am doing is giving a chance for these men, after more than a century, to be heard at last, for the General Conference denied them a hearing and condemned them in their absence being judges in their own case!

And you endorse their actions?

But you quote a man of the conference as authority and you cannot see that A.G. Daniells, Prescott, Evans, and W.C. White, the ring leaders in apostasy, were plotting against Dr. kellogg and brother Jones by giving Mrs. White false reports about these men and, with the help of W.C. White, manufactured testimonies with her signature attached to them in order to condemn these godly men just as the men of the Sanhedrin plotted against Christ and His followers.

sky

I and the Adventist church and all other churches can take our hope and strenth in the scripture before us all where our Lord assures us He will send us Pastors after his own heart. Jer 3:15. It doesnt matter what you or Kellog or anyone else says. God has spoken and there is no human on earth who can supercede scripture

 

[Castaway57]

And I might add that Jer 3:15 has been the experience of. all churches in all ages

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I and the Adventist church and all other churches can take our hope and strenth in the scripture before us all where our Lord assures us He will send us Pastors after his own heart. Jer 3:15. It doesnt matter what you or Kellog or anyone else says. God has spoken and there is no human on earth who can supercede scripture.
_______________________

A "pastor" after God's own heart does not tell the professed people of God to disregard the Testimonies of God's Spirit.

"Many will stand in our pulpits with the torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled by the hellish torch of Satan. If doubts and unbelief are cherished, the faithful ministers will be removed from the people who think they know so much. 'If thou hadst known,' said Christ, 'even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace, but now they are hid from thine eyes.'" T.M.409-410.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His MERITS, we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5,744.

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

"The great danger with our people has been that of depending upon men and making flesh their arm. Those who have not been in the habit of searching the Scriptures for themselves, or weighing evidence, have confidence in the leading men and accept the decisions they make; and thus many will reject the very messages that God sends to His people, if these leading brethren do not accept them." T.M.106-107.