The implications of the case of Joshua Harris for unconditional election

[mcarans]

Joshua Harris was a committed Calvinist pastor who posted on Instagram that he had lost his faith. Was he tricking himself about his faith? How can believers in unconditional election ever be sure they aren't tricking themselves if even the most apparently solid Calvinists like Harris can fall away?

The implications of the case of Joshua Harris for unconditional election : cruciformity

 

[Peter J Barban]

The best way to be sure is to not fall away.

 

[Peter J Barban]

I feel sorry for Mr. Harris and his family.

I expect him to announce within a year that he is a homosexual and had been fooling himself about many things for years.

He will admit that he had a strong desire for approval from authority and compromised his true self to fit into his Christian heritage. He will say that he tried to fake it until he could make it.

Now that he has grown and discarded Christianity, he can become who was truly meant to be. And whether he knows it or not, he will work very hard to please his new master.

 

[mcarans]

I feel sorry for Mr. Harris and his family.

I expect him to announce within a year that he is a homosexual and had been fooling himself about many things for years.

He will admit that he had a strong desire for approval from authority and compromised his true self to fit into his Christian heritage. He will say that he tried to fake it until he could make it.

Now that he has grown and discarded Christianity, he can become who was truly meant to be. And whether he knows it or not, he will work very hard to please his new master.

That's quite a prophetic gift you have!

 

[Peter J Barban]

That's quite a prophetic gift you have!

As you know, we are not allowed to prophesy on the forum. Don't get me in trouble here

 

[com7fy8]

Well, I do not know exactly what someone might mean by "unconditional election". But in case the person is mainly promoting it as an idea, this could be the problem. The person might be doing all sorts of work of scholarship and preaching and promoting, but does not deal with what is guaranteed to happen if someone is predestined.

We are guaranteed our Father's successful correction, I find to be the meaning of Hebrews 12:4-14. Plus, Isaiah 55:11, I think, confirms this, by saying how God's word is guaranteed to succeed in doing all which God desires. This would mean God's word is unconditionally sure to accomplish what God Himself means by His word. So, His word is not limited to how we can understand and try to do His word, then, I would say.

Also, we are guaranteed to be conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29. And our Apostle Paul says he labors for this > "according to His working which works in me mightily." (in Colossians 1:28-29). So, God in us works what He means by His word, I can see through this.

So, it could be interesting to note if someone promoting election is mainly busy with teaching an idea, or is the person mainly discovering and ministering how we become because of being conformed to Jesus, and how this has us loving any and all people the way Jesus in us has us loving?

 

[royal priest]

Not everyone who adhere to the doctrine of election are the elect. So, yes, it is possible for someone who believes they are elect to be decieved either by themselves or another.
Matthew 24:24

 

[mcarans]

Not everyone who adhere to the doctrine of election are the elect. So, yes, it is possible for someone who believes they are elect to be decieved either by themselves or another.
Matthew 24:24

So in essence, noone can ever be sure they are of the elect?

 

[royal priest]

So in essence, noone can ever be sure they are of the elect?

Not in a perfect sense. We sin and so our hope is ultimately in God that He will show mercy in spite of our sin.

 

[sdowney717]

So in essence, noone can ever be sure they are of the elect?

From the responses about that very thing, Paul says this. Verse 16 is something you feel and know about yourself and God, an internalized type idea that you know in your knower, it goes deep into your being this bearing witness from His Spirit to our spirit that we are the children of God. If you dont have this inner witness in your spirit, you need to ask Him with prayers and supplication to reveal this to you by His Spirit. In Acts 1 before the Spirit was given, poured out on them, the disciples spent time praying all of them together waiting on God

Romans 8
4 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Acts 1
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey. 13 And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James.

14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

 

[St Sebastian]

How can believers in unconditional election ever be sure they aren't tricking themselves if even the most apparently solid Calvinists like Harris can fall away?

A Calvinist would simply reply he was never a Christian to begin with. He will also probably quote 1 John 2:19. That's how we used to address it back in the days when I was a Calvinist.

 

[mcarans]

A Calvinist would simply reply he was never a Christian to begin with. He will also probably quote 1 John 2:19. That's how we used to address it back in the days when I was a Calvinist.

It is that answer that creates the problem for Calvinists, because they cannot be sure if they are really Christians or destined to think they are a Christian but not be so to begin with.

 

[St Sebastian]

It is that answer that creates the problem for Calvinists, because they cannot be sure if they are really Christians or destined to think they are a Christian but not be so to begin with.

Indeed. I remember the endless days of thinking "am I one of the predestined? Am I not?" Instead of focusing on "make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:20), I either tried to dodge the question and think that I was already one of the predestined, or suffer through the possibility of not being one.

 

[renniks]

Joshua Harris was a committed Calvinist pastor who posted on Instagram that he had lost his faith. Was he tricking himself about his faith? How can believers in unconditional election ever be sure they aren't tricking themselves if even the most apparently solid Calvinists like Harris can fall away?

The implications of the case of Joshua Harris for unconditional election : cruciformity

This is the problem with the doctrine of unconditional election, it is impossible to know if you've actually been chosen, are only temporarily enlightened. Which is just one of many reasons why it's a false doctrine.

 

[MDC]

A Calvinist would simply reply he was never a Christian to begin with. He will also probably quote 1 John 2:19. That's how we used to address it back in the days when I was a Calvinist.

And rightfully so. The fact that you don’t believe what that scripture states doesn’t make it false. Matter of fact how does that not apply to you?

 

[MDC]

This is the problem with the doctrine of unconditional election, it is impossible to know if you've actually been chosen, are only temporarily enlightened. Which is just one of many reasons why it's a false doctrine.

Unconditional election is a biblical fact. If salvation is conditioned in something a sinner merits then you are saying salvation is not of grace and conditioned in Christ’s merits.. therefore showing why you reject the biblical doctrine of unconditional election

 

[MDC]

It is that answer that creates the problem for Calvinists, because they cannot be sure if they are really Christians or destined to think they are a Christian but not be so to begin with.

The elect in Christ live by faith. That’s our assurance. What gives you confidence you are saved if it isn’t in Christ and His merits of righteousness? Your works? Sacraments? Profession of faith? What?

 

[renniks]

Unconditional election is a biblical fact. If salvation is conditioned in something a sinner merits then you are saying salvation is not of grace and conditioned in Christ’s merits.. therefore showing why you reject the biblical doctrine of unconditional election

Not. Believing does not merit us anything. It's God's condition for salvation, but he does all the saving work.

 

[MDC]

Not. Believing does not merit us anything. It's God's condition for salvation, but he does all the saving work.

Believe what exactly? If Christ alone isn’t sufficient to save apart from your help of works then what exactly are you resting your salvation in? If this man lost his salvation, according to you I’m assuming, then you are saying Christ failed to save him. So what’s the basis for ones salvation if it isn’t Christ alone?

 

[renniks]

Believe what exactly? If Christ alone isn’t sufficient to save apart from your help of works then what exactly are you resting your salvation in? If this man lost his salvation, according to you I’m assuming, then you are saying Christ failed to save him. So what’s the basis for ones salvation if it isn’t Christ alone?

I'm saying he chose not to continue believing. God will not force you to remain in the Vine, Jesus made that plain. " Remain in me and I will remain in you." Christ did not fail to save him, he failed to remain in Christ.