Trump on tape asking county level election workers to not certify the results for Biden: "we'll get you lawyers"

[Desk trauma]

The point is, is that the policies we had were a whole, WHOLE lot better

Then it should be easy to point to specific ones.

 

[Oneofhope]

Then it should be easy to point to specific ones.

Border?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Border?

"border" is not a policy.

 

[Desk trauma]

Border?

Which specific policy related to the border?

 

[JustOneWay]

Border?

Which has nothing to do with the topic of election workers.

 

[Oneofhope]

Unbelievable.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Unbelievable.

What I find unbelievable is that so many Trump fans are either unwilling or unable to articulate even the basics of the policies they supposedly liked that were put forward by his administration and/or the Republican party.

 

[JustOneWay]

What I find unbelievable is that so many Trump fans are either unwilling or unable to articulate even the basics of the policies they supposedly liked that were put forward by his administration and/or the Republican party.

It is no wonder that they can't articulate what they liked because the conditioning they received from Trump is all about negative towards Biden and democrats.

 

[NxNW]

Gas was cheaper, food was cheaper, homes were cheaper, it was safer.

Cheaper under Obama, you mean? Or Carter?

That is not empty nothings. Those are important things in life. Why wouldn't the working man not vote for a republican.

Because Republicans want to take our rights away.

 

[ralliann]

The only policy you’ve mentioned is AA.


You’re claiming that Democrats abandoned you. That’s an example of a “victim mentality.”




I want specific policies because I ant to know exactly how the Dems “abandoned” you and how the Republicans appealed to you. I claimed it was all vibes and not actual policy - your posts so far have just confirmed that. If you want to argue that I’m wrong, you’ll have to show some actual Republican policies that helped you and/or some Democratic ones that hurt you.


In previous posts, you’ve mentioned the shift among certain groups from voting for Democrats to voting for Republicans - a switch, I would add, that was largely driven by racial factors and racial angst deliberately stoked by the Republican party. Here, you’re complaining about the perception of racism being foisted upon you, but the only policy you’ve mentioned is affirmative action, in response to a question for which that wasn’t an answer.

I’ve asked you to name Republican policies that appealed to you, but you just keep bringing up race. How am I to draw any conclusion from this other than that Republicans successfully appealed to you by stoking racial tensions?

Yep, liberals just call us racists. Over and over. The economy under Trump. foreign relations under Trump were good Those things were the result of policies. Biden, undid those things right from the get go. So, just go ahead and keep insulting people, and then demand to answer why they vote for the other guy.
Blue collar were those workers in the past. Today, immigration is about workers. Taking pride in the benefits dems worked for in the past. switched to jobs these immigrants
now work. How did these jobs become jobs Americans don't want, or won't do. It might be true, but it was not in the past. What happened to cause the change?
I don't expect an answer, as that has already been buried to bring this back to what you want to focus on.

 

[JustOneWay]

Yep, liberals just call us racists. Over and over.

No they don't. BUT, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

The economy under Trump. foreign relations under Trump were good Those things were the result of policies.

The economy under Trump was terrible when he left. In four years America lost more jobs than it created under Trump. His economy was bad.

Biden, undid those things right from the get go.

Good thing too, and now the economy is in much better shape under Biden.

So, just go ahead and keep insulting people, and then demand to answer why they vote for the other guy.

You vote for a person because of insults? That does not sound like a wise practice.

Blue collar were those workers in the past. Today, immigration is about workers. Taking pride in the benefits dems worked for in the past. switched to jobs these immigrants
now work. How did these jobs become jobs Americans don't want, or won't do. It might be true, but it was not in the past. What happened to cause the change?

This makes little sense. What are you trying to say?

 

[ralliann]

Yep, liberals just call us racists. Over and over. The economy under Trump. foreign relations under Trump were good Those things were the result of policies. Biden, undid those things right from the get go. So, just go ahead and keep insulting people, and then demand to answer why they vote for the other guy.
Blue collar were those workers in the past. Today, immigration is about workers. Taking pride in the benefits dems worked for in the past. switched to jobs these immigrants
now work. How did these jobs become jobs Americans don't want, or won't do. It might be true, but it was not in the past. What happened to cause the change?

No they don't. BUT, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

LOL

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yep, liberals just call us racists. Over and over.

That's not a policy, but that's closer to answering the question of what Dems did to repel you than anything so far.

The economy under Trump.

That's not a policy. It's also 24 years after the start of the Clinton era when you said you first started looking at Republicans.

foreign relations under Trump were good

Not only is that not a policy, it's also not true. He was a global laughing stock who frequently agitated our allies. He tore up a treaty with Iran that's allowed them to grow their stockpile of enriched uranium. About the only people who liked him were other autocrats.

Those things were the result of policies.

Which policies?

Biden, undid those things right from the get go.

Which ones did Biden undo?

So, just go ahead and keep insulting people, and then demand to answer why they vote for the other guy.

I've already conceded that Republicans did a better job of appealing to the feelings of certain groups of people. I don't deny that. My contention was that Dems didn't abandon them in their policies.

How did these jobs become jobs Americans don't want, or won't do. It might be true, but it was not in the past. What happened to cause the change?

A number of things happened: college education typically brings with it more lifetime earnings and, like-it-or-not, our society often (though not always) correlates money with status and prestige, er go jobs that required college became "better" jobs where all the "smart," "talented" kids went. College access has been opened up, so more people take advantage of it.

Some of the jobs were sent overseas or to other states with cheaper labor and weaker protections. Some of them were automated away. Over time, people also realized that it's advantageous to pursue a more lucrative career in an air-conditioned office that you can work until you're 70 instead of a low-paying job in a factory or on a construction site that will destroy your body before you're 55.

I really don't like the lack of status that comes with these jobs and how easy it is to look down on the people filling them. That genuinely bothers me and I try to be careful with my language when talking about labor matters so as to not convey any sort of condescension regarding a person's job or wealth. But at the same time, it's hard to deny the fact that these jobs often don't pay well and that management often subjects those workers to conditions that white collar workers would never tolerate.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yep, liberals just call us racists.

Speaking of "racist": Is it racist to not count the vote of a county that is half Black? (That's the *actual* subject of this thread.)

 

[ralliann]

That's not a policy, but that's closer to answering the question of what Dems did to repel you than anything so far.


That's not a policy. It's also 24 years after the start of the Clinton era when you said you first started looking at Republicans.

I did not begin voting until after Clinton. I was very young when I began in the blue collar work force as many do. Young enough that i did not pay much attention to politics. But, the impeachment of Clinton were unavoidable. By this time I was a stay at home mom. So I had time to watch.
That is when I began to pay attention to politics. My parents were democrats, and I considered myself the Same as a young person. Dems were for your average person, republicans were for the rich. I got that from the time I was in maybe third grade. I had not changed.

Not only is that not a policy, it's also not true. He was a global laughing stock who frequently agitated our allies. He tore up a treaty with Iran that's allowed them to grow their stockpile of enriched uranium. About the only people who liked him were other autocrats.

Look at the conflict in the world. Wars. They did not do those Things under Trump. And this just shifts the point of what I spoke about. But you want to shift from it. I don't.

Which policies?




Which ones did Biden undo?



I've already conceded that Republicans did a better job of appealing to the feelings of certain groups of people. I don't deny that. My contention was that Dems didn't abandon them in their policies.

Here is where the shift in what I said and where you are taking this...
This depends on context. Feelings vs actual events of the past:
Dems have done, and continue to appeal to certain groups. Historically it was Blue collar, now it isn't. I will give you that they did not abandon this appeal in their policies, but they did switch which group they were supporting with their policies. which did not work out well for the previous group.

A number of things happened: college education typically brings with it more lifetime earnings and, like-it-or-not, our society often (though not always) correlates money with status and prestige, er go jobs that required college became "better" jobs where all the "smart," "talented" kids went. College access has been opened up, so more people take advantage of it.

Some of the jobs were sent overseas or to other states with cheaper labor and weaker protections. Some of them were automated away. Over time, people also realized that it's advantageous to pursue a more lucrative career in an air-conditioned office that you can work until you're 70 instead of a low-paying job in a factory or on a construction site that will destroy your body before you're 55.

Hah, All those earnings and prestige, with that college education? Now we (including illegals) are supposed to pay for it? Yet it is you living prestigiously and financially superior because of it. Do you see the irony at all here? Loan forgiveness was a real slap. what's the cruel subject of this conversation in the thread at this point? No Republican policy helped me there, republicans prevented a policy which would negatively, unfairly affect me.
And Some of us wanted to continue in those jobs. this to me smacks of racism. Bring in peoples to work at slave wages. I'm the racist? To me it is a form of exploitation, who prospers? The owners.

I really don't like the lack of status that comes with these jobs and how easy it is to look down on the people filling them. That genuinely bothers me and I try to be careful with my language when talking about labor matters so as to not convey any sort of condescension regarding a person's job or wealth. But at the same time, it's hard to deny the fact that these jobs often don't pay well and that management often subjects those workers to conditions that white collar workers would never tolerate.

Well, from my point of view, many don't try to be careful. I don't consider it careful, I just consider it rude and arrogant. I am just being honest. Today, especially right now, we are lower than low called things we are not, to appeal to the feelings of their groups.
So, It was when I was older that I actually began to pay attention to polics. I never voted before then, but I would always support the democrat. Liked Jesse Jackson alot, wanted him to run. Suported Dukakis.
Eighteen years at home raisung three kids. Went back to work when my youngest was old enough to do so. Wow wages had only raised 2 dollars an hour more than when I left it. I was shocked to consider that.

 

[Oneofhope]

What I find unbelievable is that so many Trump fans are either unwilling or unable to articulate even the basics of the policies they supposedly liked that were put forward by his administration and/or the Republican party.

Do I need to give a registered policy# for you to recognize there is a massive problem at the border that no administration has ever had?

Nice work, Biden, and those who voted him in.

Absurd.

 

[Halbhh]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of them are, essentially, just taking marching orders from whomever their favorite media personality is. Could be a tv/radio preacher; could be a news pundit; these days it could be a youtuber. That sounds kind of reductionist and patronizing, but I think it's largely true - or at least, they're taking their cues from folks they trust who are then taking it from media personalities. And the media personalities have learned that it's more profitable to be crazy and abandon whatever sense of decorum and propriety they used to have.

whomever their favorite media personality is used to be Tucker Carlson for very many I think, and after he got booted, now that person that had sent me emails about Carlson (I shot down a few falsehoods in those, but he kept sending them) now sends about the Fox talk show group "The Five" instead, so Tucker got replaced with the Five for some number, and so I think mostly that support even in the Christians nationalist groups might have come a lot (or if 2nd hand through another person) originating in secular talk shows that have no pretense at all of being religious. Like someone hears another invention from Carlson et al., and then repeats it to other people, etc. But that someone repeating the made up stuff was Trump a lot we know.

 

[JustOneWay]

Do I need to give a registered policy# for you to recognize there is a massive problem at the border that no administration has ever had?

Nice work, Biden, and those who voted him in.

Absurd.

Myth vs. Truth: Dissecting the Republican narrative about the border

connolly.house.gov

MYTH: The Biden administration has ignored the border and is refusing to commit proper resources to it.

TRUTH: The idea that Democrats have ignored the situation at the border and refused to commit resources to solving it is another outright lie. In reality, the Biden-Harris administration and congressional Democrats have surged record levels of funding to the border.

The FY23 government funding package that President Biden signed into law provided Border Patrol with $7.153 billion — a 17 percent increase from the year before. Additionally, the funding package provided $65 million for 300 new Border Patrol agents, $60 million for 125 new personnel at points of entry; and $230 million for technology like autonomous surveillance towers.


House Republicans voted against this historic funding.

 

[Oneofhope]

Myth vs. Truth: Dissecting the Republican narrative about the border

connolly.house.gov

MYTH: The Biden administration has ignored the border and is refusing to commit proper resources to it.

TRUTH: The idea that Democrats have ignored the situation at the border and refused to commit resources to solving it is another outright lie. In reality, the Biden-Harris administration and congressional Democrats have surged record levels of funding to the border.

The FY23 government funding package that President Biden signed into law provided Border Patrol with $7.153 billion — a 17 percent increase from the year before. Additionally, the funding package provided $65 million for 300 new Border Patrol agents, $60 million for 125 new personnel at points of entry; and $230 million for technology like autonomous surveillance towers.


House Republicans voted against this historic funding.

This is why I previously wrote . . . unbelievable.

There is virtually no possibility of holding a conversation about these things.

It's unfortunate that whatever I do here, including trying to exit this conversation, simply isn't good enough, but that's too bad. I will not be back to this thread. Thanks for your trying to help me understand things.

2TG

 

[iluvatar5150]

Do I need to give a registered policy# for you to recognize there is a massive problem at the border that no administration has ever had?

Nice work, Biden, and those who voted him in.

Absurd.

That would be nice - it would both give us a starting point for discussions and also demonstrate that you had some idea of what you we’re talking about.

My understanding of the border policies (which I concede is not a subject I follow very closely) are that many things aren’t all that different between the two administrations, with a big exception being that Trump’s antagonism towards immigrants (which isn’t really a “policy” per se) had a decently strong deterrent effect on their coming here.

So, if the argument is that more people are trying their luck by coming here because Biden isn’t a hatemonger, well, then I guess you’re probably right.