The heavens declare the glory of God;

Greg Merrill

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birdetto

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When the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it is not ultimately speaking of stars in outer space. The Bible is written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and the term heavens means the true believers. They are declaring the glory of God. Further, when the Bible says that God knows all the stars by name, the host by name, it means he knows each true believer by name in an intimate way.
 
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JoeP222w

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When the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it is not ultimately speaking of stars in outer space.

What do you base this on?

The Bible is written in parable form

There are parables in the Bible, but not all of the Bible is a parable.

and the term heavens means the true believers.

Where do you get that from? Would the original readers of scripture have understood it in that way? Please share how you know this.
 
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Greg Merrill

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When the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it is not ultimately speaking of stars in outer space. The Bible is written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and the term heavens means the true believers. They are declaring the glory of God. Further, when the Bible says that God knows all the stars by name, the host by name, it means he knows each true believer by name in an intimate way.
"It means"??? Never, ever, heard this before in my 40 years of studying the Bible. Who says "it means" this? Where do they get this idea??
 
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W2L

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When the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it is not ultimately speaking of stars in outer space. The Bible is written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and the term heavens means the true believers. They are declaring the glory of God. Further, when the Bible says that God knows all the stars by name, the host by name, it means he knows each true believer by name in an intimate way.

The actual stars in outer space are in themselves an analogy which represent believers. They do declare Gods glory too. The fact that they exist is a testament of God.
 
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birdetto

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What do you base this on?



There are parables in the Bible, but not all of the Bible is a parable.



Where do you get that from? Would the original readers of scripture have understood it in that way? Please share how you know this.

Thanks JoeP222w, for your interest in the subject. The term heavens in the Bible is the plural of heaven and is about the same in meaning. Heaven, the Bible says, is God's throne. Wherever God, who is a Spirit, is on the throne, so to speak, in people's hearts, we could say that that is heaven. We learn in the Bible that the Day Star (Jesus) arises in people's hearts (2 Peter 1:19). Obviously, the day star being spoken of is not meaning a big orb or Helium and Hydrogen ultimately, because that would not arise in people's hearts. The Bible uses the term heavens to describe those who are true believers. We see that God gathers his elect, in Matthew 24, from one end of heaven to the other: "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." The angels are those who have the message of the gospel and the trumpet is the gospel. The four winds are everywhere a true believer hears the gospel. The true believers are called heaven here: From one end of heaven to the other. So the gospel becomes the method by which true believers are gathered to God. The Bible says that Jesus is in the midst of the throne. The Bible also says that the true believers rule and reign with Christ in heavenly places as soon as they are born again (Eph 2:6, Rev 20:6). The true believers are called 'heavens and ye that dwell in them' in Rev 12:12: "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them."

The other issue you mention is related to interpretation, and it is my belief that many errors in interpretation arise because people have not understood that the Bible is written in parable form. Hence, people try to understand confusing surface texts which really don't make for accurate understanding as surface texts. Sometimes they also interpret seemingly simple surface texts incorrectly as well, not understanding the parable meanings of words but interpreting them directly as if they are more simple than they are. If you go to the average seminary, they will teach something like: The Bible is to be understood as a surface text unless it is immediately obvious that a parable or simile or metaphor or type is being used. However, the problem with this is that the Bible makes no such claim. Rather, the Bible makes the claim that it is written in parable form and is subject to those rules of interpretation. We read, for example, in Psalm 78: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable". The law is the Bible and so are the words of God's mouth being spoken of. God tells us how the Bible is given as he opens his mouth. It is a parable, he says. Mark 4:34 clues us in to this as well by telling us plainly: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.". Mark 4 further tells us that unto those who are saved it is given to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to those who are unsaved, the Bible is a parable that they do not understand. Mark 4 lays out how to understand all parables, in other words, all of the Bible: "And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word." He then shows how a surface story is actually a story that requires interpretation, such that words that seem obvious as the surface story actually have other meanings, often spiritual and revolving around God's plan of salvation. The term 'thorns', for example, is not talking about thorns in your backyard garden, but rather is a term meaning 'such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.' Likewise, we encounter many instances in the Bible where there is no verse stating: "And now I will tell you a parable" and yet there is a parable meaning. For example, when Moses struck the rock in Exodus and water flowed out to a thirsty people it was a picture of more than simple physical thirst. We know from comparing scripture with scripture that Jesus is the rock. When he was struck, the gospel and the spirit became available to those who were thirsty for salvation. The verse in Exodus 17:6 is a picture, a parable picture. So it is with the verses about the heavens in Psalm 19. It seems on the surface to be talking about a physical thing, but really the words must be compared with the rest of the Bible to get at the meaning. The Bible talks about this in Corinthians: "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." Comparing spiritual words of the Bible with other spiritual words of the Bible is what is meant here.
 
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jnhofzinser

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Speaking of the heavens declaring the glory of God...

"Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." - Arno Penzias
 
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Greg Merrill

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Speaking of the heavens declaring the glory of God...

"Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." - Arno Penzias
Most scientists believed in God until the modern era, though they may not have been Christians. I have never heard of Penzias. I could look him up. Anything notable that you would like to tell us about him?
 
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Greg Merrill

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Nobel prize in Physics 1978
Whoa! I am surprise he is so recent. Of course there are lots of scientists that are Christians, just not lots in comparison of the total number of scientists out there. Thanks for the info.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Whoa! I am surprise he is so recent. Of course there are lots of scientists that are Christians, just not lots in comparison of the total number of scientists out there. Thanks for the info.
It's more about pressure from bodies that issue grants for scientific research that don't want to "offend" people, rather than the supposed problem of specific scientific issues that makes it hard for Christian scientists.
 
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Greg Merrill

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It's more about pressure from bodies that issue grants for scientific research that don't want to "offend" people, rather than the supposed problem of specific scientific issues that makes it hard for Christian scientists.
Check out/goole "Institute for Christian Research" or "Christian Research Institute". They are professional scientists in every field, that are born again Christians as well.
 
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FrankDux

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" When the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it is not ultimately speaking of stars in outer space. The Bible is written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and the term heavens means the true believers "

Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork .

שמים shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim} dual of an unused singular שמה shameh {shaw-meh'} from an unused root meaning to be lofty; TWOT - 2407a; n m AV - heaven 398, air 21, astrologers + 01895 1; 420 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)


no
 
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