The Eternality of Hell

[Colter]

No, hell is very real. Jesus would not have told us it is real, if it were not--just as He said that heaven is real--that He would have told us if it were not so. I do not believe in eternal torture and many other Christians do not. Scripture reveals the truth. The more you read and meditate on Scripture, the more you will love God the Father and God the Son and devoutly desire to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

The more I get to know God the Father and the Son the more I realize that scripture contains the opinions, speculation and conjecture of those holy men create them. There is the gif of life or the tragic death eternal for those who reject God. I believe that threats of torture are an invention of the priesthood. I'm attracted to the love and good ness of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The more I get to know God the Father and the Son the more I realize that scripture contains the opinions, speculation and conjecture of those holy men create them. There is the gif of life or the tragic death eternal for those who reject God. I believe that threats of torture are an invention of the priesthood. I'm attracted to the love and good ness of God.

I know how you feel. We want GOD to be good and we sometimes have a hard time picturing a GOD who is loving and good to us to also punish evil. But this punishment will be fair and just. The wicked are not being tortured for thousands of years in hell and the Lake of Fire is not an eternal torture chamber. But we have to realize that there has to be some kind of punishment for bad people. For it is good of GOD to punish evil because that means GOD cares enough about what happens to us (and others) that is wrong that He desires justice to be served properly. GOD is fair and good in everything He does. Without punishment, there would be no fair justice. Imagine if you did not discipline your children. They would grow up spoiled. Imagine if criminals were not punished with being thrown into prison? They could continue to rape and kill other people. Imagine if no evil deserved it's punishment. People could think they can get away with doing whatever they want because there are no real consequences to their actions. But sinning against a holy GOD does have it's consequences. Just as breaking the Law can have it's consequences. For even doing certain things in this life (with no bad intent on your part) can have it's consequences like: rock climbing, sky diving, and swimming in the ocean (where sharks are hunting for food).

Sometimes an abusive or overly angry parent or an abusive situation might lend us to think that GOD could never act in such a way and .... well... your right (partially). GOD would never lash out in anger mindlessly or abuse a person. GOD is into fair justice. But GOD can get angry at sinners because they are doing wrong against Him. His anger is just because there are times even in our own life to have a righteous and holy anger against certain things. For example: Do you hate the abuse of children? Surely this is something to have a righteous anger about. Granted, such anger should not consume us. For we should love and forgive, too. This is the other side of GOD that is His greatest of all characteristics. For if GOD decided to be just angry at us for our sins with no love, then we wouldn't be here. So we know GOD is love. We know GOD is good. This tempered with His holy anger against sin when it is properly due. The same is true for GOD punishing sin or evil. It might seem cruel from your perspective that the Richman (from the story of Lazarus and the Richman) might have even been in a mild version of hell (Where there are no flames burning him). You might think GOD would never even do that because it is not loving and good. But again, it was not loving and good of the Richman to cause such horrible pain and suffering upon others. If his evil and sin went unchecked, it would seem like God does not care about how this man's evil hurt so many people's lives. Most of all, the Richman rejected GOD and His good ways, too. If GOD and His good ways did not have any merit to them, then no punishment should be deserved. But GOD and HIs good ways do have merit. GOD does matter. Man rejecting GOD involves some form of punishmnet if there is a reward in choosing and following GOD.

Also, I do not see the Richman as being engulfed in flames. I believe he was tormented by the HEAT of the flames nearby. I also do not believe he was conscious or awake in hell for thousands of years, either. I believe souls in the realm of the dead go through long periods of sleep and that they also are awake at certain times, too. I believe the Lake of Fire will destroy the wicked after they are punished fairly for their sins (either in hell or the Lake of Fire) for their sins done here upon this Earth. But the wicked will be destroyed or erased from existence once they are properly punished for their crimes. They will not burn for all time. That would not be fair and just or good.

But I want you to know that you can trust GOD's Word (Even if certain words for you are hard to accept). Why do I say you can trust in GOD's Word? Check out my blogger article to see some amazing evidences that back up His Word in being a divine book here:

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God


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[Edmond Smith]

Just reflecting back to the crowd the general belief of Hell, "love me, or I will torture you for an eternity." No such place exists outside of Westboro Baptist world but sometime it just helps for people to hear what they are saying.

My question to you is, how do you know there is no such place?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

ECT is a human fabrication. For the Bible does not teach it. Huge assumptions are made off a small few select verses. The biggest assumptions are made is by combining a false interpretation upon Luke 16:24 with Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10. But the wording in Luke 16 does not suggest the Richman is screaming in torture here (even if he was in the flames). Also, to assume that the amount of time spent in hades by the Richman is the same fate as the beast, and the false prophet (Who are demons) in the Lake of Fire is also an assumption. The fate of demons is different than wicked men because they tormented mankind for thousands of years. Wicked men did not sin against GOD for thousands of years. But assumptions are made because that is what the majority of the churches believe about hell.


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[aiki]

The more I get to know God the Father and the Son the more I realize that scripture contains the opinions, speculation and conjecture of those holy men create them.

And how do you know there is a Father and Son to get to know if not for the Scriptures you think are mere opinion, speculation and conjecture telling you so?

I believe that threats of torture are an invention of the priesthood. I'm attracted to the love and good ness of God.

How do you know the love and goodness of God aren't also fabrications of priests? Why trust the Bible gets it right about God's goodness but doubt it does when it comes to God's holiness and justice? That seems rather...inconsistent to me. There is a lot of sorrow, and pain, and death in the world. Surely a truly good God would prevent all such things. Maybe the loving and good God you think you know is no such thing. So, how do you know the God you think you know is real? What authoritative source beyond yourself can you point to that tells you who God is? You've dismissed the Bible as a trustworthy source. So, what else have you got?

Selah.

 

[claninja]

No, hell is very real. Jesus would not have told us it is real, if it were not--just as He said that heaven is real--that He would have told us if it were not so. I do not believe in eternal torture and many other Christians do not. Scripture reveals the truth. The more you read and meditate on Scripture, the more you will love God the Father and God the Son and devoutly desire to be indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.

It's kind of weird isn't it? Some on this thread pray for truth and guidance from the Holy spirit and state that there is no hell. Others, like yourself, do the same thing and state there definitely is hell, but its not eternal, and still others, who are seeking truth and praying for guidance from the Holy spirit, say hell is eternal. So which is it? You say the scripture reveals truth and yet there are 3 different positions from people who all claim to know the truth. All 3 positions are found in scripture, so how do we reconcile them?
I'd say the best way to start is with the one truth we do know and can agree upon:
That Christ died to save us from our sins. The Good News.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

ECT is a human fabrication. For the Bible does not teach it. Huge assumptions are made off a small few select verses. The biggest assumptions are made is by combining a false interpretation upon Luke 16:24 with Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10. But the wording in Luke 16 does not suggest the Richman is screaming in torture here (even if he was in the flames). Also, to assume that the amount of time spent in hades by the Richman is the same fate as the beast, and the false prophet (Who are demons) in the Lake of Fire is also an assumption. The fate of demons is different than wicked men because they tormented mankind for thousands of years. Wicked men did not sin against GOD for thousands of years. But assumptions are made because that is what the majority of the churches believe about hell.

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One way or the other, it seems safe to say that everyone should want to take the way of escape through Jesus Christ and the spiritual birth from above which He provides through His Holy Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But people have been turned away from GOD and Christ because they have been falsely taught that GOD will torture people alive for all eternity waaay beyond what the crimes call for. After people had discovered the truth about the Conditional Immortality position (With Scripture), they had then come to Christ (Seeing Him as a fair and just GOD as He truly is). So while it is good to take the way of escape that is Christ, people need to know the truth that GOD is not going to roast people alive for all eternity (Which goes against basic morality and or fair justice).

For God is good.
And people will know the truth and the truth will set them free.


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[Foxfyre]

The more I get to know God the Father and the Son the more I realize that scripture contains the opinions, speculation and conjecture of those holy men create them. There is the gif of life or the tragic death eternal for those who reject God. I believe that threats of torture are an invention of the priesthood. I'm attracted to the love and good ness of God.

My faith is such a source of assurance and comfort and strength for me, I cannot imagine life having any meaning at all without it.

So I'm pretty much in your camp of belief here. The God I know wants only good for us. But does everybody have eternal life and will be in Heaven regardless of how they have lived their lives? Regardless of how they have rejected God? I don't know but I do believe a reasonable person would interpret the scriptures and conclude that there is a place without God where we do not want to be.

There are consequences for sin. We all live with those consequences in one way or another.

But I just can't reconcile a God of love as one who would consign those he loves to a terrible hell. So just as the bad things in the world are a consequence of our collective sin--the wrong choices we have all made, so too I have to believe that hell, whatever it is, would be the same kind of consequence, and only the grace of a loving God would spare us from it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My faith is such a source of assurance and comfort and strength for me, I cannot imagine life having any meaning at all without it.

So I'm pretty much in your camp of belief here. The God I know wants only good for us. But does everybody have eternal life and will be in Heaven regardless of how they have lived their lives? Regardless of how they have rejected God? I don't know but I do believe a reasonable person would interpret the scriptures and conclude that there is a place without God where we do not want to be.

There are consequences for sin. We all live with those consequences in one way or another.

But I just can't reconcile a God of love as one who would consign those he loves to a terrible hell. So just as the bad things in the world are a consequence of our collective sin--the wrong choices we have all made, so too I have to believe that hell, whatever it is, would be the same kind of consequence, and only the grace of a loving God would spare us from it.

The richman in the story of the Richman and Lazarus was not screaming in pain and we are not given any details about how his flesh sizzled. I believe the richman was tormented by the HEAT of the flame that was nearby him or the flame of the Lake of Fire that was in the great gulf between him and Abraham. I believe hell or hades is more like a prison and not a torture chamber and I believe that the wicked will go through periods of sleep there. Why? Because God is into fair justice. Why would God punish a man waaaaay beyond what the crimes call for? It doesn't add up with the good God that we know. But I do not see it as inconsistent with God's good and loving and merciful nature to place people into a horrible place for a temporary amount of time for their sins against God. For the wicked will be destroyed eventually in the Lake of Fire after the Judgment. The wicked will be no more. God will not keep the wicked alive to burn for all time. That is cruel and saddistic and it would make God out to be a monster (if such were the case). ECT is overkill; And it is not fair justice. For the ECT proponent can never explain how torturing the wicked for all eternity is fair and good. They basically tell a person to turn off their brain and to just believe what they say on the matter while they point to only a small few select verses (With lots of assumptions involved).


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[Foxfyre]

The richman in the story of the Richman and Lazarus was not screaming in pain and we are not given any details about how his flesh sizzled. I believe the richman was tormented by the HEAT of the flame that was nearby him or the flame of the Lake of Fire that was in the great gulf between him and Abraham. I believe hell or hades is more like a prison and not a torture chamber and I believe that the wicked will go through periods of sleep there. Why? Because God is into fair justice. Why would God punish a man waaaaay beyond what the crimes call for? It doesn't add up with the good God that we know. But I do not see it as inconsistent with God's good and loving and merciful nature to place people into a horrible place for a temporary amount of time for their sins against God. For the wicked will be destroyed eventually in the Lake of Fire after the Judgment. The wicked will be no more. God will not keep the wicked alive to burn for all time. That is cruel and saddistic and it would make God out to be a monster (if such were the case). ECT is overkill; And it is not fair justice. For the ECT proponent can never explain how torturing the wicked for all eternity is fair and good. They basically tell a person to turn off their brain and to just believe what they say on the matter while they point to only a small few select verses (With lots of assumptions involved).
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I have no problem and will not complain about taking such stories literally.

For myself, I took that story as a parable to teach that riches and prosperity and success are their own reward but that there is something we all should desire much more. Our life here on Earth is fleeting, but eternity is a long time. It left no doubt of which side of the chasm we want to be on.

 

[Colter]

My question to you is, how do you know there is no such place?

The same way I know that God isn't a pedophile.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have no problem and will not complain about taking such stories literally.

For myself, I took that story as a parable to teach that riches and prosperity and success are their own reward but that there is something we all should desire much more. Our life here on Earth is fleeting, but eternity is a long time. It left no doubt of which side of the chasm we want to be on.

So, are you suggesting that ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is a possibility?


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[Bible Highlighter]

The same way I know that God isn't a pedophile.

Yes, you are correct. We all have a moral compass. For even unbelieving Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the law. For they even have knowledge about certain things as being right and wrong. For it is written,

14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) " (Romans 2:14-15).


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[Colter]

My faith is such a source of assurance and comfort and strength for me, I cannot imagine life having any meaning at all without it.

So I'm pretty much in your camp of belief here. The God I know wants only good for us. But does everybody have eternal life and will be in Heaven regardless of how they have lived their lives? Regardless of how they have rejected God? I don't know but I do believe a reasonable person would interpret the scriptures and conclude that there is a place without God where we do not want to be.

There are consequences for sin. We all live with those consequences in one way or another.

But I just can't reconcile a God of love as one who would consign those he loves to a terrible hell. So just as the bad things in the world are a consequence of our collective sin--the wrong choices we have all made, so too I have to believe that hell, whatever it is, would be the same kind of consequence, and only the grace of a loving God would spare us from it.

Its very simple, those who completely reject life eternal will not awake from the sleep of death. Upon the judgment they will be destroyed. No pain, no ongoing sadistic punishment. Sad but just.

"Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.”

 

[claninja]

One way or the other, it seems safe to say that everyone should want to take the way of escape through Jesus Christ and the spiritual birth from above which He provides through His Holy Spirit.

So a child who is raised Muslim in Syria, under the ravages of war, and never knows Christ, goes straight to hell when they are killed by a bomb exploding through his/her house?

 

[Foxfyre]

So, are you suggesting that ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is a possibility?


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Honestly I've never considered it. But I simply cannot equate the God I know with torment of any kind, let alone eternally. Are there consequences for what we do? What we choose? I believe there always are one way or another, whether those be good or bad. So I have to believe that there are consequences for rejecting God; rejecting eternal life. But I leave what those consequences are to be well above my pay grade.

My job, one I often fail miserably in doing, is to live my life as a disciple of Jesus, to obey him, to witness for him, and do no harm. And for me, concerns of hell aren't on the job description.

I'm pretty sure nobody has ever come to know and love God/Jesus by being told he/she was going to hell. And I fear many have come to reject God/Jesus primarily because of the unattractive, hateful, or angry way He was introduced to them.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

So, are you suggesting that ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is a possibility?


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If ECT is the acronym for General Thrology, yes I'd say a distinct possibility.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Honestly I've never considered it. But I simply cannot equate the God I know with torment of any kind, let alone eternally. Are there consequences for what we do? What we choose? I believe there always are one way or another, whether those be good or bad. So I have to believe that there are consequences for rejecting God; rejecting eternal life. But I leave what those consequences are to be well above my pay grade.

My job, one I often fail miserably in doing, is to live my life as a disciple of Jesus, to obey him, to witness for him, and do no harm. And for me, concerns of hell aren't on the job description.

I'm pretty sure nobody has ever come to know and love God/Jesus by being told he/she was going to hell. And I fear many have come to reject God/Jesus primarily because of the unattractive, hateful, or angry way He was introduced to them.

Ah, so ECT is out then. That is good. However, I do disagree that God cannot temporarily torment (punish) a person for the sins that they committed here on this Earth because it would be contrary to what we know about justice. For we see in this world of how punishment (according to justice) even in our real world makes sense. For if prisons were fun filled candy lands than that would make people want to do bad things. Most people really do not want to go to prison because they know these are bad places to be in. If there was no fear of being punished by going to prison, then more people would be more likely to do the wrong thing. For example: If a person lived on a holodeck, they could do whatever they want with no real consequences. They can do all sorts of things their dark heart desires there without really hurting anybody except God and themselves.


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[Bible Highlighter]

If ECT is the acronym for General Thrology, yes I'd say a distinct possibility.

ECT is an acronym for Eternal Conscious Torment. While it may be accepted by theologians in general, that does not mean it is true. For truth is not determined by a popularity contest.


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