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The End of Gun Control

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Hammster, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    I almost feel that there should be some sort of law passed that is an extension of the libel/slander law but applies to ANY organization that knowingly tries to suppress, obfuscate, and/or flat out lie about scientific findings and scientific data acquisition.

    like this... When these companies and lobbyist do this crap, it hurts the nation as a whole. How many people died because big tobacco was able to obfuscate and flat out lie about scientific findings? Sure, eventually they were sued but most companies and lobbyists get away with it.

    It would be nice if there was a hard core consumer action group that vehemently targeted these nefarious orgs.
     
  2. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    We are in the information age. It is virtually impossible to prevent the dissemination of information.

    Type "How to make a nuclear weapon" into google and see what you get?
    Type in "Design of the F-35"

    so sad to say, the information genie is loose and it is hell trying to get it back in the bottle. Given that 95% of the planet has access to the internet and at anytime can disseminate information to the masses... yeah, it's virtually impossible to keep a secret or prevent information dissemination :(
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    They would have to be above real life; not susceptible to bribes, blackmail or threats against friends and family ....
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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  5. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    Again, it's not a numbers game because numbers lie. I would bet that most gun deaths due to criminal activity are in areas with strict gun control. So using statistics like you are doing is meaningless to the discussion.
     
  6. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    Numbers and data NEVER lie. Please understand that.

    Clever humans can manipulate, obfuscate, twist, and contort the truth to make it "seem" like the numbers are on their side, but the numbers in and of themselves never ever lie.

    I feel that you just don't understand that. In fact, you just did a form of that, you just twisted the numbers to make it seem like they lie when you say
    SO notice how you are attempting to correlate gun deaths with strict gun control. That is really bad logic and science. The real question would be "if you removed gun control from these areas, would gun correlated deaths decrease?" Another real question would be "has the gun control in these areas led to a decrease in gun related deaths".

    You have 3 areas, Area X, Y, and Z.

    Area X has 100 gun deaths per year
    Area Y has 25 gun deaths per year
    Area Z has 5 gun deaths per year.

    Now, we institute "gun control" in area X. Area X has a reduction of gun deaths from 100 per year to 50 per year. Area X still has the most gun deaths per year. So, can we then use your argument "...the most deaths are in areas with strict gun control.."? Is your argument valid? No, not it is not. The data shows that gun control reduces death.

    Now, if we institute "gun control" in all 3 areas and if the following results:
    Area X has 125 gun deaths per year
    Area Y has 43 gun deaths per year
    Area Z has 22 gun deaths per year.

    then we can conclude with a fair degree of confidence that gun control does make things worse...

    this will be my last post on this matter with you. I'm getting into basis statistics and logic 101 and this is something that if you can't grasp then you will probably never be able to grasp.

    data and numbers never ever EVER lie. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because "some" people can manipulate and misuse data and numbers is "not" the same thing as the actual data and numbers being a lie. Learn to distinguish between the two...
     
  7. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    As Mark Twain said, there are 3 types of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics. Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. I know full well how numbers and data are manipulated to get any result desired.
     
  8. expos4ever

    expos4ever Left This Site

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    Facts a little too inconvenient for ya?

    The simple truth is this: what actual evidence there is - notwithstanding fantasies about gunning down the bad guy - show that a gun in the house increases the risk that the gun owner (or a family member) will be killed by gunfire.
     
  9. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The trouble is of course, that selective use of data does create knowingly false conclusion.
    The NRA are past masters of it.
    (as indeed were the tobacco lobby and corn lobby before them)

    There is a statistic sometimes used of a town in the US where guns became compulsory, and from that year gun crime, they claim, dropped a big percentage. So says gun lobby, there is the proof.

    They decline to tell you that the year it was instituted was a complete outlier. A statistical freak. An exceptionally high amount of gun crime, way above the norm, so that it is hardly surprising it reduced anyway.. Averages for before and after show no such correlation with the rhetoric of gun lobby.
    Yet gun lobby claims such evidence is "science" where all who disagree with gun lobby use "pseudoscience" and have a "hidden agenda". Whilst NRA actively prevent research by any public body. Because NRA knows what the conclusion is likely to be.

    It is not the numbers that lie. Crime in that case did reduce. Just not in a causal way. It is the interpreters of numbers that lie!

    There is also an oft quoted stat from a survey on the amount of times that guns have provided adequate self defence to prevent a crime, which is then extrapolated from very small numbers polled to say that a quarter of a million crimes were averted.

    What they fail to tell you is that it is not a survey at all. It did not calculate from recorded victims of potential crime averted or not. It was simply a question asked of a group of respondents with guns.
    Actual crime reports imply the figures of weapons used in self defence to avert a crime, are dramatically lower, almost non existent.

    So how was it done? Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer!
    If you are a gun owner determined to keep second amendment "rights" however many people get killed and you are given a multiple choice question.
    -Has my gun been useful for self defence.
    -Or has it been useless in any realistic sense.

    Which answer do you think they will give? It only took 1-2 percent to lie, to make stats that were so big they were clearly bogus, and bore no relation to actual crime. Again that is "science" according to gun lobby. They must think we are all stupid!

    I can cure all the medical emergencies in America.
    How do I do it ..easy!
    Made up figures but you get the point....
    In the year 1950 there were 100000 emergencies and 20000 ambulances
    In the year 2000 there were 200000 emergencies and 40000 ambulances.
    Perfect correlation! So all I have to do , is get rid of 20000 ambulances and I will half the number of emergencies. The example is ridiculous, but you would be appalled at how many times correlations are falsely used as causation - buried in statistical studies in all sorts of fields - and the false causation used to set policy.

    I agree with you dgi! - it should be made a felony to knowingly mislead the public.

     
  10. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    I have a house full of them. In fact, I have a 9mm on my side as I type this. What of it????
     
  11. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why is the obvious question? Are you scared of the computer threatening you with a virtual gun?
    {that was a joke by the way }
    More seriously, when was the real (rather than hypothetical ) occasion that having it close , made you safer? or averted an incident?
     
  12. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    NOPE :D Just dressed for the occasion. I have nicer ones, But this one is fine for around the house.
    I ain't scared of much just like preparedness because you never know when a opossum may get in the hen house ;)
     
  13. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Someone you are close to will die soon, apparently.
     
  15. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    Hmmm, Hope not, but it will certainly not be for the lack of available firepower. If you are hurting someone I love, I will kill you until you die from it!!! :cool: To do less is morally wrong imho.
     
  16. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    352C74F8-E191-4A25-A9D6-5CF43C70065A.jpeg
     
  17. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I spend the day at the gun range yesterday. Dozens of people with everything from revolvers to ARs and AKs. Somehow we all survived...and had fun too. ;)
     
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  18. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    Are you serious???? Everyone survived?? o_O
    Even with all those vile nasty booming things there??
     
  19. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and some of them even had those high capacity assault clipazine thingies sticking out the bottom. I think they make them from bananas. :swoon:

    #BlackGunsMatter
     
  20. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    Oh my goodness, I am scared just thinking about all those 2nd amendment right's activist out there partaking in such awful activities.
    It's lucky you survived.
     
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