• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

The End of Gun Control

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Hammster, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

    +614
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Of course I would still think that guns are inanimate objects that require someone with an agenda to pick them up. Truth doesn't change because my circumstances did, in your scenario.

    There is nothing wrong with restricting dangerous chemicals, especially if the same kind of nut jobs who are suddenly killing people decide to use them in that way, and it has happened. That has always been the case. And the 2nd Amendment does not protect the right of a person to retain dangerous chemicals. This is an inappropriate comparison.

    The blame rests squarely on the ones who are increasingly perpetrating damage with guns, cars, bombs, knives whatever they can use. We have to figure out as a society how we have failed the kids. Was it adultery, divorce, families failing etc, so kids were raised basically without parental figures and in daycare by paid caregivers? Was it a society that got away from God and His commandments? Is it the poisoned food, water, or massive chemicals in everything that altered them? All of them? What the heck is going on? We need to find out.
     
  2. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

    +614
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Sometimes possession deescalates a situation. If you know everyone on the block is unarmed by law, but you, being a criminal who does not follow the law, are packing, then you've got some easy targets there for whatever you wish to perpetrate. If you have no idea who else may be armed, that may be enough to deter you, the criminal with bad intentions.
     
  3. Mayzoo

    Mayzoo Well-Known Member

    +623
    Christian
    Private
    In the US all you need to buy a car (when I last bought) was money and/or credit. One does not have to have a driver's license to buy a car.
     
  4. Nithavela

    Nithavela confused

    +10,579
    Germany
    Other Religion
    Single
  5. CitizenD

    CitizenD Well-Known Member

    571
    +629
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    A person is far more likely to kill themselves with a gun than to ever shoot someone else in self defense.
     
  6. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Some people are far more likely. Statistics don't mean anything. I bet a lot of those people in those statistics commit suicide.

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain's Own Autobiography: The Chapters from the North American Review
     
  7. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Seems like a week doesn't go by without a video or something demonstrating this. I just saw one of a big man walking behind the counter of a fast food restaurant and start pummeling a woman cook. The female manager next to her pulled her CCW and immediately ended the assault.
     
  8. CitizenD

    CitizenD Well-Known Member

    571
    +629
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes.

    And that is not important?
     
  9. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Not to this discussion. People who want to harm themselves will find a way.
     
  10. Mayzoo

    Mayzoo Well-Known Member

    +623
    Christian
    Private
  11. Nithavela

    Nithavela confused

    +10,579
    Germany
    Other Religion
    Single
  12. Mayzoo

    Mayzoo Well-Known Member

    +623
    Christian
    Private
    That is for obtaining a license. Of course, we have training prior to obtaining a license here as well.

    You mentioned training prior to buying a gun should be just like training to buy a car. What is the training prior to buying a vehicle? Must you have a license to purchase a vehicle in Germany? Can an unlicensed individual purchase a vehicle for a licensed individual?

    Hubby lived there for 3 years, and he stated that decades ago all one had to have in Germany to purchase a vehicle was funds, just like here in the states.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Mayzoo

    Mayzoo Well-Known Member

    +623
    Christian
    Private
    Requesting clarity is semantics? I guess I should have just assumed you meant what you said and went on a bender? So much for treating someone with respect enough to request clarity rather than jump on what you said.

    On ignore I go :D. Which is fine since I do not ignore people, but I am quite content to be ignored by those who do not adhere to treating others with respect.
     
  14. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

    +5,115
    Baptist
    This is really a theoretical argument with no real basis in reality. You are assuming criminals think rationally which they more often than not do not.

    Are there situations in which owning a gun results in positive outcomes and lives saved? Absolutely. I can easily go online and find several feel good stories about someone having a gun in the right place and right time and they save the day.

    But the smarter and harder question to ask is: If you look at the ENTIRE LANDSCAPE of guns and gun ownership and use in this country, if you were to add up all the negatives and all the positives what is the net result?

    And the data shows that the net result is negative.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

    There is a quote from the Movie "Men in Black" that sticks with me... "A person is smart, people are stupid..."

    When looking at the whole of the US, we are a bunch of stupid people. This notion that increasing the amount of guns will lead to a safer America is just not true. Think about every stupid testosterone fueled situation and then ask yourself "Would the people involved possessing a gun help the situation?"

    Then there is the matter of simple everyday accidents, a kid finds a gun and then we have another sad headline, like clockwork, at least once a week in this country...

    Then throw in suicide, owning a gun DRAMATICALLY impacts the success rates of suicides.

    So am I saying we should ban guns? No. But what I am saying is that we need to take a hard and honest look at all of our preconceived notions about guns and be honest with ourselves...
     
  15. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

    +5,115
    Baptist
    the numbers are not in your favor.

    Gun related crimes, accidents, and stupidity far outweigh gun related hero-saves by law abiding gun toting citizens.
     
  16. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    It's not a numbers game.
     
  17. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,093
    Catholic
    Married
    The fact that the gun lobby tries to suppress injury research , indeed CDC are barred from conducting research on guns says it all. NRA knows the figures say ownership makes life much more dangerous. The good guy vs bad guy dichotomy is false.

    All the big lobbies from tobacco to corn have followed the same path. First try to produce bogus statistics supporting the cause, then when that fails, try to suppress real data collection , try to dismiss adverse studies as pseudoscience, and buy politicians to prevent studies or votes against them : claiming they are misrepresented by hidden agendas.

    Notice the similarities?
    The corn lobby on obesity saying sugar is not bad for you it is the way some abuse it that leads to obesity! So net result - most of America got fat, with enough politicians bribed ( sorry I mean campaign funded) to stop vital legislation harming corn lobby interests

    Ultimately it takes time, but truth is unstoppable. Vested interests can slow it for decades but ultimately truth wins,

    And the truth is obviuous. Guns make the world a much more dangerous place no matter who owns them. And whilst gun deaths rank in similar order to Breast cancer and vehicle fatalities the status quo is just not acceptable.

    At some point there will be a tipping point. A black swan. It will start a spiral that will marginalise the gun lobby, as it did the tobacco and corn lobby before them

    Hard to know from where it will come. But as I suggested, one possibility is the ability to print replica guns may have the opposite effect to the freedom the gun lobby craves : it might flood the market with dangerous fakes that blow up when used , injuring blinding and maiming thousands in increasing numbers , and with so many injuries nobody might trusts guns any more. Congress will be forced to act.

     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  18. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

    +5,115
    Baptist
    that is exactly what it is, it is a numbers game.

    When the numbers and data is on your side, then you are right.

    When the numbers and data is not on your side, then you are wrong.

    It is as simple as that.

    Again, I'm not calling for the ban of guns. What I am calling for is the acknowledgement of data, evidence and facts in our arguments. And if we do that, then we come to the conclusion that reasonable gun control methods and laws would result in fewer deaths per year. Now, will it erase all gun crimes and accidents? No. but it will prevent some and bring the numbers down.

    So yes, it is a numbers game.
     
  19. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Well-Known Member

    +2,613
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Really, the only part of your response that I understood was the last sentence. But I don't even own any guns, so I won't be shooting any people.

    ...I just don't need the hassle of worrying about guns in my house, but I'm all for other people who choose to own weapons. Good for them.
     
  20. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

    +3,162
    Australia
    Seeker
    Single
    What I was pointing out is that, particularly for a society that has successfully implemented gun control and has a resultant very low death toll; this type of bypass of law isnt freedom; its a gross injustice.

    You have to understand that most countries abhor what the USA does in relation to guns - so to foster something that causes a break down in the controls that other nations have is disgraceful
     
Loading...