The End of Gun Control

expos4ever

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Yep. I spend the day at the gun range yesterday. Dozens of people with everything from revolvers to ARs and AKs. Somehow we all survived...and had fun too. ;)
Anecdotal accounts of how you and others get by with your guns with no bloodshed are misleading.

What reputable data we have shows that a gun in the house increases your risk of death by gun.

And the “it can’t be a problen because it is an inanimate tool” argument needs to be named for what it is.

Stupid.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Yeah and spoons make people fat!!
Don't worry. He tried this twice already with me and failed miserably, eventually admitting guns are only tools, people are the problem, and that he approves of their use in protecting him and his society. So now he's here to drag the same old crank bait through the water hoping to try his luck again.

:wave:
 
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Southernscotty

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Don't worry. He tried this twice already with me and failed miserably, eventually admitting guns are only tools, people are the problem, and that he approves of their use in protecting him and his society. So now he's here to drag the same old crank bait through the water hoping to try his luck again.

:wave:
Lol, I have been laughing and cutting up now this crankbait analogy really has me going as it would any good bass fisherman.. It is almost like trolling and they are bound to get hung up. lol
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Anecdotal accounts of how you and others get by with your guns with no bloodshed are misleading.

What reputable data we have shows that a gun in the house increases your risk of death by gun.

And the “it can’t be a problen because it is an inanimate tool” argument needs to be named for what it is.

Stupid.
You are right. It is stupid.

The very existence of a gun in your house doesn't increase your risk; the presence of unbalanced people in your home who would harm others increases your risk.

Your argument is equivalent to "the presence of a glass windows and doors in your home increases your risk of injury from glass."

A perp could as easily use a knife if he meant you harm. Or a vehicle. Or the fireplace tools. Shall we remove all of those as well?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Yeah and spoons make people fat!!
Yes, they do! If we could only remove all of them, maybe we could protect people - for their convenience and safety, of course - from the dangers of ice cream!
 
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expos4ever

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The notion that since a gun is only a tool, widespread access to guns cannot be a significant contributing factor to gun deaths is stupefyingly moronic.

But that’s not surprising; several of the pro-gun arguments are so stupid, one cannot help but question the reasoning powers of those who advance them.

A nuclear warhead is only a “tool”.

A vial of anthrax is is only a “tool”.

But no reasonable person would suggest these things be accessible to hundreds of millions of citizens, as guns are in the USA, simply because they are only “tools”.
 
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expos4ever

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You are right. It is stupid.

The very existence of a gun in your house doesn't increase your risk; the presence of unbalanced people in your home who would harm others increases your risk.

Your argument is equivalent to "the presence of a glass windows and doors in your home increases your risk of injury from glass."

A perp could as easily use a knife if he meant you harm. Or a vehicle. Or the fireplace tools. Shall we remove all of those as well?
No.

Windows, cars, and knives all clearly have benefits that outweigh the risk.

Not so with guns; unlike these other things, the primary purpose, and mode of usage for the gun is to injure or kill.
 
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Darkhorse

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No.

Windows, cars, and knives all clearly have benefits that outweigh the risk.

Not so with guns; unlike these other things, the primary purpose, and mode of usage for the gun is to injure or kill.

And sometimes the ONLY solution to a violent criminal is to employ deadly force against them.

Killing is a legitimate use, depending on the circumstances.
 
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expos4ever

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And sometimes the ONLY solution to a violent criminal is to employ deadly force against them.

Killing is a legitimate use, depending on the circumstances.
This may be true but is somewhat misleading. What credible evidence there is suggests that the self-defence benefit of a gun is more than counter-balanced by the risk it will be used against you or your family (including suicide).
 
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Darkhorse

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What credible evidence there is suggests that the self-defence benefit of a gun is more than counter-balanced by the risk it will be used against you or your family (including suicide).

Most people are not self-destructive.
If they were, they have dozens of chances every time they drive to veer into oncoming traffic, killing themselves and others, or into a bridge, killing only themselves.

Any gun owner serious about self-defense keeps their gun close to them and away (hidden) from others. This provides maximum safety for the owner and minimum risk of the criminal (or the kids) getting hold of it.
 
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expos4ever

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Most people are not self-destructive.
If they were, they have dozens of chances every time they drive to veer into oncoming traffic, killing themselves and others, or into a bridge, killing only themselves.
True, most people are not self-destructive. But the fact remains: what reputable data we do have shows that a gun in the house increases your risk of death by gun.
 
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dgiharris

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As Mark Twain said, there are 3 types of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics. Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. I know full well how numbers and data are manipulated to get any result desired.
I'm curious,

if you can't use data, facts, and math when making your decisions and arriving at "the truth"...

pray tell, what do you use?

Tea leaves?

Bone casting?
 
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dgiharris

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True, most people are not self-destructive. But the fact remains: what reputable data we do have shows that a gun in the house increases your risk of death by gun.
If we had a time machine and could visit the homes of "gun accidents" the day before said accident, I guarantee you that the vast majority of those homes would consider themselves "gun safe" and the owners would consider themselves "responsible" gun owners.

Accidents happen to all types of people, hence the term "accidents"

The argument that "Oh it [gun accidents] won't happen to me because I'm responsible and know how to handle my firearms" is something I'm sure the VAST majority of gun owners believed right up until the day that their homes became a statistic.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Most people are not self-destructive.
If they were, they have dozens of chances every time they drive to veer into oncoming traffic, killing themselves and others, or into a bridge, killing only themselves.
Exxxxxxxxxxxactly! I hear that having a motor vehicle makes one more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

And spoons still make people fat. ^_^
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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The notion that since a gun is only a tool, widespread access to guns cannot be a significant contributing factor to gun deaths is stupefyingly moronic.

But that’s not surprising; several of the pro-gun arguments are so stupid, one cannot help but question the reasoning powers of those who advance them.

A nuclear warhead is only a “tool”.

A vial of anthrax is is only a “tool”.

But no reasonable person would suggest these things be accessible to hundreds of millions of citizens, as guns are in the USA, simply because they are only “tools”.
Inapplicable comparison.

The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee any protection to citizens from government seizure of deadly diseases in vials and nuclear warheads. That's not a logical reply.

You are to address the issue not the "reasoning powers of those who advance (views with which you disagree).
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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If we had a time machine and could visit the homes of "gun accidents" the day before said accident, I guarantee you that the vast majority of those homes would consider themselves "gun safe" and the owners would consider themselves "responsible" gun owners.

Accidents happen to all types of people, hence the term "accidents"

The argument that "Oh it [gun accidents] won't happen to me because I'm responsible and know how to handle my firearms" is something I'm sure the VAST majority of gun owners believed right up until the day that their homes became a statistic.
Sure accidents happen and I defy you to find the person who is actually stating that accidents don't happen to him. Intelligent people do everything in their power to make sure accidents of all kinds don't happen in their homes, to the best of their ability. The same people would also take personal responsibility for any failure of their own, unlike the Greek chorus always pointing fingers at everyone else.

Emotional arguments in lieu of factual ones are quite inferior, yet a common tactic today, seen regularly on all the mainstream media as well as social media ad nauseum.
 
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Hammster

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This may be true but is somewhat misleading. What credible evidence there is suggests that the self-defence benefit of a gun is more than counter-balanced by the risk it will be used against you or your family (including suicide).
I think the fact that the vast majority of gun owners have no issues.
 
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expos4ever

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Exxxxxxxxxxxactly! I hear that having a motor vehicle makes one more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

And spoons still make people fat. ^_^
As usual, your evasion is seasoned with light humour, parhaps in hopes that the evasion will slip by unnoticed.

Again: no one here is denying that cars and spoons can be used to kill. But you cannot possibly not know this is not the point. Cars and spoons have useful primary purposes whose benefits outweigh the risks.

What is the primary purpose of a gun?
 
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As usual, your evasion is seasoned eith light humour, parhaps in hopes that the evasion will slip by unnoticed.

Again: no one here is denying that cars and spoons can be used to kill. But you cannot possibly not know this is not the point. Cars and spoons have useful primary purposes whose benefits outweigh the risks.

What is the primary purpose of a gun?
To hit the user’s intended target.
 
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