The Duggar Family

[seeking.IAM]

Consider this: Like most states Arkansas requires mandatory reporting of child abuse. Reports are to be made to the Department of Human Services. One of the entities required to report child abuse to Department of Human Services is law enforcement. So fair questions are: Did the parents meet mandatory reporting statutes by going to a police officer-friend instead of Department of Human Services? Was there a purpose to their not reporting to DHS? Did the police officer fulfill his duty to report the matter to Department of Human Services as required by law? If not, was there a purpose to the police officer's not reporting to DHS? If DHS investigated these allegations at the time they occurred, why are they investigating now?

This is why I suspect the parents used their personal contacts and influence to seek and receive special treatment that would have been unavailable to most other parents in similar situations. Even though their handling smells fishy to me, how they handled it does not concern me as much as their going on the stump to make unsupported assertions about how other groups are child molesters. Generalizations to groups of individual behavior is never fair or wise. We should not say LGBT folk are child molesters any more than we should say Christians are child molesters because of events in any one Christian family.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Yes it's our duty to stand by the victims but it's not our duty to shun the accuser though. As Christians we should be praying for this person not condemning him or anything.

He did a wretched thing yes but so did David and yet David was the apple of God's eye. So are we going to shun David for murder and adultery?

so very loving.

yet they does not appear to show the LGBT same kind of compassion.

don't know you well enough to know if you do yourself.

 

[Root of Jesse]

He was a juvenile when it happened. I'm not saying he should have been treated like an adult offender. But what happened? WAS he sent to mandatory counseling? DID he have to pay retribution? DO community service? GO to boot camp? ANYTHING? Unless I have my story wrong, the family just went home from the police station and it was back to business as usual.

He DID go to counseling. WHOM should he pay retribution to? The entire family does community service. What good is boot camp? No, the family went home, and the parents instituted changes so that it wouldn't happen again, and Josh went to counselling away from the rest of the family.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Isn't anyone bent-out-of-shape at the harsh, judgmental, and hypocritical stance of Josh Duggar? He appears to have become an oily, slimy, lobbyist. He represented a self-declared 'righteous Christian family defense group' of individuals who have caused me to shudder. What about Ma and Pa? The family has accused a specific group of fallen people of being the worst of the worst. I have decided I will lovingly embrace being a lover and follower of the Savior, but I no longer wish to be labeled a Christian. I have grown disillusioned with how the Bible is being interpreted and wielded as a weapon to harm groups of people. And this goes waaaaayyyyy beyond the Duggars. Ultra-wacko, conservative, right-wing, scary people are declaring their sole ownership of God, Christ, the Bible, family values...and bullying others into agreement with them!

Is it against the law to be a lobbyist? Is it against the law to be in a Christian family defense group? Is it against the law to call gay sexual practices sinful? To call gay marriage sinful? As long as they speak out against sin, I have no problem. When they start attacking sinners for being sinners (as the gay lobby and left-wing media has done to the Duggars, themselves), that's where I draw the line.
Nobody has the right to declare sole ownership of God, etc. But we do have authority to speak against sin. Like murder, theft, adultery, etc.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I think we need to look at why is this so long in the media? (Personally I’m not a Duggar fan because of their marriage and sex teaching) and this is the quality of the show most in question I will give you a couple of points why:

1. How did the girls first court?

a. Their dad introduced them/interrogated the other (cause his daughter met him online) – This said I have no problem of a guy going to a girls dad and say I like your daughter can I date her to see where it goes?

b. This shows male dominated and the father/male is right and the female has to listen (this is if you take “wives submit to your husband” out of context and paying attention to “husbands love your wives” or completely disregarding the Prov. 31 woman)

2. The rules of courting?

a. Do not kiss, do not front hug, do not hold hands – why? Cause each can tempt towards more intense sexual attraction

3. Once they get married what about sex then?

a. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow the husband wants – I’m not kidding google it….Mom Duggar gives advice on how to make your marriage work? #1 you may be tired from housework, taking care of kids, and just a busy day overall but you need to give your husband sex if he wants it.

4. What did they teach their kids about proper/improper touching?

a. Absolutely nothing….did you watch all three parts? Did you hear what the girls said? Oh we did not know what was happening>>>I mean seriously? You don’t know when your big brother was touching weird areas of your body that something was not right? Who’s fault is that? Mom and dad for not teaching proper boundaries (yes I get boundaries in a large family are a little fluid I have many siblings….but really we still had boys in boys room girls in girls room not allowed in the other room)

The take away?

The Duggar’s message is all about no sex till marriage and then have all the sex you can to pop out those kids and have the biggest family you can. Did you catch that NO SEX ABSOLUTELY NO SEX - NO TOUCHING, NO TEACHING, NO TALKING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT SEX……and what happened when their son did some sexual touching and what do they say? OH its no big deal he was just a little too curious about girls. This is the heart of the issue and why they say there is a disconnect/hypocrisy

I'm not a Duggar fan, either. But the message about the male and female role in a marriage is spot on, although there's no absolute male domination involved. The rules of dating and courtship are right on, too. And Mom Duggar's advice is right on. Love and Marriage are sacrificial in nature. Both man and woman sacrifice themselves for love of each other. Sometimes, you might be tired, but the other spouse wants to be romantic, you sacrifice for the other.
I've lived my marriage both ways, and it works so much better when each sacrifices for the other's benefit. Things run smoother, things get done better, there's less irritation, and more cooperation. Being submissive to your spouse does not mean you don't have a say. You give your input and advice on whatever the dilemma is, and come to a decision.
Do you think, if the Duggar's message is so wrong, that more than one child would have been caught up in this problem? I think Josh had a psychological problem, and they discovered it (the wrong way) and dealt with it (the right way).

 

[Root of Jesse]

so very loving.

yet they does not appear to show the LGBT same kind of compassion.

don't know you well enough to know if you do yourself.

How do you know how they feel about LGBT people? What we know is that they call a sin a sin, whether it's their own, or someone else's. It looks like they not only dealt with the log in their own eye, they were trying to take care of the splinter in their human brothers' eyes.

 

[topcare]

But we do have authority to speak against sin. Like murder, theft, adultery, etc.

There will come a time in this sick society where people will say that those people in your list are just merely misunderstood and it's part of their DNA so we should embrace their nature.

 

[Mayzoo]

Consider this: Like most states Arkansas requires mandatory reporting of child abuse. Reports are to be made to the Department of Human Services. One of the entities required to report child abuse to Department of Human Services is law enforcement. So fair questions are: Did the parents meet mandatory reporting statutes by going to a police officer-friend instead of Department of Human Services? Was there a purpose to their not reporting to DHS? Did the police officer fulfill his duty to report the matter to Department of Human Services as required by law? If not, was there a purpose to the police officer's not reporting to DHS? If DHS investigated these allegations at the time they occurred, why are they investigating now?

This is why I suspect the parents used their personal contacts and influence to seek and receive special treatment that would have been unavailable to most other parents in similar situations. Even though their handling smells fishy to me, how they handled it does not concern me as much as their going on the stump to make unsupported assertions about how other groups are child molesters. Generalizations to groups of individual behavior is never fair or wise. We should not say LGBT folk are child molesters any more than we should say Christians are child molesters because of events in any one Christian family.

From what I have read in the actual police report:

The molestations occurred 4-5 times prior to Josh telling his parents in March 2002. Josh again informed his parents in July 2002 that he was molesting the girls again (or still). Some form of "discipline" was administered at this time. Then, in March 2003 the molestations occurred twice with a 5 year old child who was awake and told her parents at the time.

After being informed of the molestations on three separate occasions over the one year period, the parents then decided to seek their version of help for Josh. Twelve months after the parents were initially informed, they contacted a family friend who was a police officer. The police contact was made after Josh was done with his four months of manual labor (building houses) and bible study for/with an ex prison guard.

No police report was made nor was the incident investigated until around 12-7-06 (after statue had run out) when a book was loaned out that contained a letter indicating all this had occurred. During the investigation, some of the children were questioned. Josh was never questioned during the investigation because the parents instead sought a lawyer and were informed the statue had run out, so the remaining children and Josh were not questioned.

This was not a one time molestation as I have seen many on CF seem to believe. It appears the molestation occurred at least a dozen times over a year period with some victims being awake and others asleep.

 

[Root of Jesse]

From what I have read in the actual police report:

The molestations occurred 4-5 times prior to Josh telling his parents in March 2002. Josh again informed his parents in July 2002 that he was molesting the girls again (or still). Some form of "discipline" was administered at this time. Then, in March 2003 the molestations occurred twice with a 5 year old child who was awake and told her parents at the time.

So this looks to me like Josh told his parents, and probably said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. When he did, he went back to his parents, and they disciplined him. Then it happened again.

After being informed of the molestations on three separate occasions over the one year period, the parents then decided to seek their version of help for Josh. Twelve months after the parents were initially informed, they contacted a family friend who was a police officer. The police contact was made after Josh was done with his four months of manual labor (building houses) and bible study for/with an ex prison guard.

The discipline this time was manual labor and Bible study and mentorship.

No police report was made nor was the incident investigated until around 12-7-06 (after statue had run out) when a book was loaned out that contained a letter indicating all this had occurred. During the investigation, some of the children where questioned. Josh was never questioned during the investigation because the parents instead sought a lawyer and were informed the statue had run out, so the remaining children and Josh were not questioned.

This was not a one time molestation as I have seen many on CF seem to believe. It appears the molestation occurred at least a dozen times over a year period with some victims being awake and others asleep.

I'm not running a PI service, so I can only go by what's presented.
As I've said, we can say that parental discipline didn't work, we can say that, in Josh's case, the family sex ed didn't work. But we can say that about all families, to some degree. Eventually, some form of counseling or something worked. He hasn't done anything, as an adult. We can also say that the authorities didn't do much about it at the time. Even the friend who's a police officer possibly should have done something more. It's all a case of 'we shoulda done....'. Other than having the victims dragged through the muck 10 years later, what purpose does it serve? Even if the boy had 'other outlets' for his curiosity, do those really work any better?

 

[Mayzoo]

So this looks to me like Josh told his parents, and probably said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. When he did, he went back to his parents, and they disciplined him. Then it happened again.
The discipline this time was manual labor and Bible study and mentorship.
I'm not running a PI service, so I can only go by what's presented.
As I've said, we can say that parental discipline didn't work, we can say that, in Josh's case, the family sex ed didn't work. But we can say that about all families, to some degree. Eventually, some form of counseling or something worked. He hasn't done anything, as an adult. We can also say that the authorities didn't do much about it at the time. Even the friend who's a police officer possibly should have done something more. It's all a case of 'we shoulda done....'. Other than having the victims dragged through the muck 10 years later, what purpose does it serve? Even if the boy had 'other outlets' for his curiosity, do those really work any better?

Releasing all this information this far after the fact has helped no one and has likely severely affected the marriage potential of the remaining two girls who were molested. They "allowed" their purity (not virginity) to be "stolen", and now that information is public. They are no longer nearly as marriageable in the circles they travel as a woman in these circles is "worth" much less after her purity is gone. They are now viewed as damaged (see story below). The two sister who are married are likely now suffering in their marriages to some degree if their husbands were not aware of this "loss of purity" prior to the news coverage. The four sisters and Josh will be "paying" for Josh's errs for the rest of their lives. IMO, nothing can be done to help this family now.

Exert from the A Love That Multiples books:

“Imagine that your parents are going to surprise you and give you a brand-new bike for Christmas. Two weeks before Christmas, they buy your bike and hide it in the storage shed in the backyard. But then the boy next door sneaks into the shed and borrows your new bike; he stunt-rides it up and down the back alley.

On Christmas morning your parents lead you out to the shed to reveal the special gift they bought for you, and as they open the door and say, ‘Surprise!’ they’re just as surprised as you are. You’re all shocked to see that the bike looks like it’s been thrown off a cliff. The front fender is missing, and the front tire is warped so it rubs on the frame. It’s dirty, the paint is all scratched and chipped, and the seat has a big rip in it. It looks worse than something you would have bought at a garage sale.

“I’m sure you would still be grateful for the bike, and you would have fun riding it, but it won’t be in the condition your parents had hoped and dreamed it would be when you received it. You would miss out on a lot of the enjoyment they meant for you to have.

“In that same way, we don’t want any boy (or girl) to come and steal your purity.”

**************************************************

The goal NOW should be to stop this from happening to another family.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This far after the fact has helped no one in this family and has likely severely affected the marriage potential of the remaining two girls who were molested. They "allowed" their purity (not virginity) to be "stolen", and now that information is public. They are no longer nearly as marriageable in the circles they travel as a woman in these circles is "worth" much less after her purity is gone. They are now viewed as damaged (see story below). The two sister who are married are likely now suffering in their marriages to some degree if their husbands were not aware of this "loss of purity" prior to the news coverage. The four sisters and Josh will be "paying" for Josh's errs for the rest of their lives. IMO, nothing can be done to help this family now.

Exert from the A Love That Multiples books:

“Imagine that your parents are going to surprise you and give you a brand-new bike for Christmas. Two weeks before Christmas, they buy your bike and hide it in the storage shed in the backyard. But then the boy next door sneaks into the shed and borrows your new bike; he stunt-rides it up and down the back alley.

On Christmas morning your parents lead you out to the shed to reveal the special gift they bought for you, and as they open the door and say, ‘Surprise!’ they’re just as surprised as you are. You’re all shocked to see that the bike looks like it’s been thrown off a cliff. The front fender is missing, and the front tire is warped so it rubs on the frame. It’s dirty, the paint is all scratched and chipped, and the seat has a big rip in it. It looks worse than something you would have bought at a garage sale.

“I’m sure you would still be grateful for the bike, and you would have fun riding it, but it won’t be in the condition your parents had hoped and dreamed it would be when you received it. You would miss out on a lot of the enjoyment they meant for you to have.

“In that same way, we don’t want any boy (or girl) to come and steal your purity.”

**************************************************

The goal NOW should be to stop this from happening to another family.

I don't think anyone will hold against them what they're innocent of. Love is sacrifice, and all I would say is "Any man who wouldn't take me the way I am doesn't deserve me."
Besides that, they're head and shoulders above most American women today, in the purity department.
I wonder what you think should be done to ensure that it never happens again, when most child molestation is done within the family unit. My point is that it's very hard to police people who don't want to be policed. Look at the Amish...

 

[Mayzoo]

Yeah, I have no idea what to do to stop/reduce the incidence. I really wish I had an amazing solution.

I just know hammering this into the ground is getting no where fast. The Duggar's reps are ruined as far as politics etc. The statue of limitations is up so nothing can be done to Josh even in the HIGHLY unlikely event one of the sisters would have testified. Josh no longer lives in the household with the other kids. So far as I know, Josh's family life (children) are not being investigated, but the AR Duggars as still being investigated. Nothing productive is going to come of this from I can tell.

I do not know what more people want (that is viable) at this point.

 

[Achilles6129]

Nothing productive is going to come of this from I can tell.

I do not know what more people want (that is viable) at this point.

Well, I think the productive thing (if you want to call it that) is that he most likely had a political career in his future and now that's not going to happen. So I think it's a good thing that the general public was told about what happened when he was a teenager.

 

[Achilles6129]

The "real bible"? Fundamentalist Christianity is often absurd and not even biblical.

The Bible speaks for itself. I'm talking about what it really says, not any particular denomination's view of it.

 

[Achilles6129]

Oh, here's some more news. I think this was already talked about on this thread, but apparently there's another investigation about a child going on in the Duggar home:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/duggar-family-scandal-911-called-after-dhs-staff-blocked-n373496

 

[Chris516]

Quiverful, is not a 'christian church' in the 'absolute' sense of the term. It is a movement of Christian Protestants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull

 

[ToBeLoved]

How do you know how they feel about LGBT people? What we know is that they call a sin a sin, whether it's their own, or someone else's. It looks like they not only dealt with the log in their own eye, they were trying to take care of the splinter in their human brothers' eyes.

lookup Michelle duggars robocall

 

[znr]

The Bible speaks for itself. I'm talking about what it really says, not any particular denomination's view of it.

and yet so many people interpret it exactly to suit their own nuanced theology.

 

[ToBeLoved]

and yet so many people interpret it exactly to suit their own nuanced theology.

^^ THIS.

BINGO! She should get a prize.

 

[James Is Back]

so very loving.

yet they does not appear to show the LGBT same kind of compassion.

don't know you well enough to know if you do yourself.

What's the LGBT have anything to do with this?