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Featured The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    You mentioned somewhere that you were not on the same page as @JLB777 on the Sabbath. I've gone back and read all of his posts on this thread and all I can find is that regarding the 4th commandment, he doesn't agree with the Mosaic keeping of it. That doesn't tell me what he believes about it, just what he doesn't.

    I believe it is clear that Jesus is our Sabbath rest, and no longer to be kept as a day of worship. I'd like to know what both of you believe about it. I think I know, but my memory is not always good.
     
  2. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Every day should be your spiritual sabbath, including the seventh day of course
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    He also said to honor our parents, so to do both. I feed the poor, do you?
     
  4. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, that is what I believe too.
     
  5. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Under the OC God wanted them to set aside a day to worship and meditate on him.
    But we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us don't we. We meditate on, and worship God every day, for His Spirit dwells in us
     
  6. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    I would agree. This is why our focus needs to be on Christ and Him crucified.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  7. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    Reread it.
     
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I've helped out at soup kitchens a lot. Made sandwiches and taken them to the homeless wherever I could find them.
    However, it isn't something I feel comfortable talking about here.
    Don't do your good deeds in public
     
  9. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    After you reread it, go to psalms 89. Find Christ in this psalms and see what God says about his children...we are His children. Than put the two together.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Actually, most (and possibly not all) Eternal Security proponents only believe in a half gospel or a milk type only gospel (i.e. The gospel's initial portion that tells them to believe in His death and resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is the milk of the Word that the Corinthians could only accept. It was the only message they could bear because they were still yet carnal (See 1 Corinthians 3:2-3). It's why Paul said he came not to know anything among the Corinthians accept Jesus and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2) because they would not be able to bear the second half of the message of the gospel (i.e. the meat of the Word).

    The majority of Eternal Security proponents do not believe in the Bible's full or complete gospel (i.e. the meat of the Word). The second half or truth of the gospel is that Christ died so as to redeem us from all iniquity and so as to live holy and be zealous of good works.

    Hebrews 5:9
    "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, NKJV

    Ephesians 5:25-27
    25 “even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

    Titus 2:14
    “Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

    Romans 1:16-17 says,
    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
    17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." NKJV

    What is this faith look like?

    James 2:17
    “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

    James 2:24
    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

    James 2:18
    “shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”

    Hebrews 9:14
    “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

    Titus 3:8
    “This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

    1 Peter 4:1-2
    1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
    2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God

    Colossians 1:21-23
    21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
    22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
    23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”

    Colossians 2:6-7
    6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in sin the faith,as ye have been taught,”

    1 John 1:7
    “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

    Important Note:

    I believe it is Jesus is the source of a person's life (See 1 John 5:12). I believe it Jesus who ultimately does the good work within a believer's life. For we can do nothing without Jesus (John 15:5). Yes, we have to cooperate with Christ, but it is Jesus who ultimately does the good work through our lives. For there is none good but God. Jesus is the good tree and we are just the branches. So Jesus gets all the glory. It's why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. For it was Christ working in them. For Paul says, for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.


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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  11. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    Does this gain you righteousness, or does Christ?
     
  12. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    If you live in your righteousness, you live in your wickedness as well. We all sin, our only hope is Christ and Him crucified.

    Thank God for the wonderful works He has done for the children of man.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  13. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    Jason, the church was a mess...Paul was sending them back to their foundation...Christ and Him crucified.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all law.
    So when you read Romans 6:14, you also have to read the previous chapters to see what law he is talking about. In Romans 4 we get a glimpse of what law Paul is talking about by showing the futility of circumcision.

    9 "Cometh
    this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
    10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
    12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."
    (Romans 4:9-12).

    In Romans 3:1 Paul asks the question point blank,
    "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"

    Circumcision is a part of the commands of the Old Testament and not the New Testament.

    Paul essentially says the moral law still applies to us; For he says that those who disobey the moral law will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5, etc.). In 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

    A person is not humble if they are justifying sin in some way.

    In Matthew 7, Jesus told those believers who did wonderful works and who ALSO worked iniquity or sin to depart from Him. In fact, the whole chapter is not about having a belief alone on Jesus but it is about doing good works. In verses 26-27 Jesus says anyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Jesus says also in that same chapter that we will know false profits by their fruit. Fruits are deeds.

    James is talking about the Royal Law (i.e. the Law of Love or the moral law). See James 2:8. For it is the context of the beginning of the chapter. James makes a point about not having respect of persons, if you do, then you sin (i.e. break the Royal Law or the Law of Love). This is what "law" James is talking about. James is not talking about lesser commands in the New Covenant or the Old Law. James is saying you break the Law of Love and you break all of God's laws that are currently in existence. So this is not a message in futility in keeping the Law. It is not hard to keep the moral law or the Law of Love.

    But you really do not believe that because like most OSAS proponents, they believe they will always sin again as a part of some uncontrollable sin nature. In other words, you believe that you can do some kind of evil and yet God will reward you with Heaven despite your evil. Yet, would not God have to agree with your plan of salvation that it is okay for you to sin and yet also save you? Can God agree with sin? Surely not. That is what does not add up with your belief.

    Then why would Christ say the following?
    If you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
    Why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?
    If you love me, keep my commandments.
    If you are my friend, do what I command.
    Why would John say, he that does righteousness is righteous?
    Yes, I believe it is Christ working in me.
    But to not allow Christ to work in me is a salvation issue.
    For he that hates his brother has no eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).
    Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).

    To have an assurance that you are in Christ, you have to do the following,

    "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).



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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not disputing that the various churches did not have their problems. But this is to be expected. Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

    In Revelation 2 through Revelation 3, Jesus had a problem with the majority of the churches. Only the few got it right. The luke warm church is the type of church that Christ will spew out of his mouth.


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  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Jesus imputes his righteousness when we first come to Him by asking Him to forgive us of our sins, and with us believing in Him as our Savior, and believing that He died and was risen again on our behalf.
    The continued imputation of Christ can be found in 1 John 1:7. It says we have to walk in the light of Christ so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

    Note:

    Jesus is the source of a person's eternal life (see 1 John 5:12).
    So if one abides in Christ, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident in a believer's life.


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  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe we are "Initally Saved" and "Ultimately Saved" by Jesus Christ and what He has done with His death and resurrection. It is our faith in what He has done that truly and ultimately saves us. But this leads to a relationship with Jesus (Who alone has immorality or life - 1 Timothy 6:16). So if we abide in Christ who is our source of salvation, then the good works of Christ will flow through our lives and not evil or wicked works. We will not have a sinful carnal mind thinking we can sin and still be saved. We will have the mind of Christ and not make excuses in thinking we can sin and still be saved. For Jesus never thought that way. Why should we think that way? We are told to imitate Christ in behavior. Let's start with that type of thinking. Jesus said, if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body will be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus said if you are ashamed of me and my words, then I will be ashamed of you (Luke 9:26).


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  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There is no problem in observing the Saturday Sabbath; It is just no longer a binding command within the New Covenant. It is a ceremonial law of the Old Testament. Nowhere do we see this command restressed with any kind of punishment attached in the New Testament. There is no NT verse plainly saying, you must keep the Sabbath still. In fact, Paul says we are not to judge each other according to the Sabbaths. Paul also says that some regard all days the same, etc.

    So yes; I agree with you. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.


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  19. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    We actually agree....

    I like you say, we should not sin.
    I do not take sin lightly, God is a Holy God. When I sin, I take it to Christ. I do not expect to sin, but when I do the Holy Spirit doesn't leave me...he convicts me.

    The good that I do I count as nothing...it is Christ's righteousness that I cleave onto. I would never present my own righteousness to God...never.

    I take sin very seriously. God doesn't think wicked thoughts, when I do...I take it to Christ.

    Even the smallest sin is wickedness in the eyes of God. If I offer my own righteousness to God He looks upon all of my sins. It is Christ's righteousness that I firmly stand under.

    I look to Christ and Him crucified forevermore. When we do this, God is merciful and His mercy endureth. Forever.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
  20. Dan61861

    Dan61861 7 days without God, makes one weak.

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    Jason, I actually like your fever for the Lord. I completely agree, we are to make our flesh subject to our spirit.

    God forbid any of us sin.

    What we don't do is look to our own righteousness for salvation. We look to Christ and Him crucified...period.

    We wait on Jesus, our change is coming. It will not happen til He comes. My friend this is our hope. Christ is the only hope for all of us.

    In Christ
    Daniel
     
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