The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We actually agree....

No, I am sorry. We do not actually agree.
Our beliefs are two worlds apart.

You said:
I like you say, we should not sin.
I do not take sin lightly, God is a Holy God. When I sin, I take it to Christ. I do not expect to sin, but when I do the Holy Spirit doesn't leave me...he convicts me.

The good that I do I count as nothing...it is Christ's righteousness that I cleave onto. I would never present my own righteousness to God...never.

I take sin very seriously. God doesn't think wicked thoughts, when I do...I take it to Christ.

Even the smallest sin is wickedness in the eyes of God. If I offer my own righteousness to God He looks upon all of my sins. It is Christ's righteousness that I firmly stand under.

I look to Christ and Him crucified forevermore. When we do this, God is merciful and His mercy endureth. Forever.

In Christ
Daniel

Do you not believe that you will always sin in this life as a part of some uncontrollable sin nature?
Do you believe all future sin is automatically paid for and no sin truly leads to spiritual death as long as we trust in Jesus as our Savior?
Or do you believe a saint has to confess their sin every time they sin so as to be saved?
If so, then is that believer doing something so as to maintain their salvation?
Would not confession of sin to the Lord be some kind of action or work on your part?
What do you think happens when a believer does something really sinful like say lying or lusting after a woman?
Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body will be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
If salvation was all in the Lord's righteous work, then why are we told to avoid particular sins by Jesus because they will lead to spiritual death?
Granted, I am not saying believers cannot gain victory over sin with the help of the Lord.
But a believer puts that into practice with the Lord of their own free will.
They need to cooperate with God and the good work He desires to do through them.

Anyways, we do not agree because you are essentially telling people that they can sin and still be saved or that sin does not cause spiritual death for the believer. You believe that just by having a belief on Jesus is the only requirement for salvation. But James says even the demons believe and tremble.


...
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I've helped out at soup kitchens a lot. Made sandwiches and taken them to the homeless wherever I could find them.
However, it isn't something I feel comfortable talking about here.
Don't do your good deeds in public

Exactly!
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jason, I actually like your fever for the Lord. I completely agree, we are to make our flesh subject to our spirit.

2 Corinthians 7:1 tells us to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This verse does not make a lick of sense with your belief.
For one, there is no cleansing yourself of the filthiness of the flesh and spirit in your belief because you believe you will always sin in this life as a part of some uncontrollable sin nature.
Second, you do not believe we can perfect holiness until we die. So this command that tells us to perfect holiness is just a joke in your belief.
Three, we are told to do this in fear of God. Yet, there is no true fear of God in your belief because you are Once Saved, Always Saved or you can just have a belief on Jesus and you got your guaranteed golden ticket to Heaven. There is no real fear of God if you sin. He's got you no matter what you really do. But this is not what the Bible teaches.

You said:
God forbid any of us sin.

What we don't do is look to our own righteousness for salvation. We look to Christ and Him crucified...period.

We wait on Jesus, our change is coming. It will not happen til He comes. My friend this is our hope. Christ is the only hope for all of us.

In Christ
Daniel

Again, this is not true. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. This is how the blood saves us. By walking in the light. We are not forced against our will to walk in the light of Christ. You have to choose of your own free will to do this.


...
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A good discussion and explanation of what "Repent" means, and how turning to God is the action of faith required for salvation.

If a person hears the call of the Gospel, "Repent", which is a call to turn to God, then by default they need to turn away from Satan as their lord, which is done by confessing Jesus as Lord, the act of the obedience of faith, in response to hearing God.

As I said to you before, I am not going to get into the topic of the definition of repentance with you again. We have already beat the horse to death and do not agree. So let it go.

You said:
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:8-17


If we repent, and turn to God, then later, we turn from the holy commandment and go back to serving Satan as Lord, then we have turned form the truth, and have become as sinners, in need of repentance or our soul will be lost.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20




JLB

Yes, I agree, the gospel needs to be obeyed.
I believe a complete gospel involves walking in God's righteous ways as a part of accepting the Lord and believing in His death and resurrection.


....
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB777
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
The true Sabbath, is yet to come, of which the weekly Sabbath points to it, being the 7th day.

We enter that rest, through faith in Jesus Christ, which means we have entered that rest by faith.

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9

  • There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

We who believe have entered that rest by faith, which means: we have the hope of obtaining it.

When you have something by faith, you have not obtained it in reality, but have the hope of obtaining it, a promise from God.


As the writer goes on to say in Chapter 11:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

We who have faith in entering that rest to come, have the substance of the thing we are hoping, and the divine evidence of the thing we have not yet seen, or realized or obtained.


The rest is the resurrection and receiving immortal bodies that will never die, and living with Jesus Christ for 1000 years, with all His enemies removed.

The 7000th year is the Day of rest.

Mankind has been on earth for about 6000 years since Adam, or 6 "prophetic days.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

  • a thousand years as one day.

The true Sabbath, the Day of rest, that we are all longing for, is the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people, with immortal, glorified bodies that shine like the sun, in which there is no sin and "striving", [war] against the Spirit of eternal life within us. True Rest!


35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

  • they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.


Now, in this life, we are sons of God by faith, then at His coming, we will have obtained the fullness of being sons of God, in which we will be equal to the angels, and have immortal bodies that will never die, and will be at rest from the sin in our flesh now, striving against what our heart desires, righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, for 1000 years, which is the Day of rest, the true Sabbath, which the weekly Sabbath points us to.


41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:41-43


No enemies, with an immortal body that will never die, and shines like the sun.


Here is a snapshot of what you will look like on that Day, with a sinless body.


Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. Matthew 17:1-2

  • His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.



JLB

So while we wait for the millennium reign of Christ, do you believe the Christians kept the 7th day Sabbath? And do you?

Do you know where it is written about the 7000 year as the millennium? Also, if we are at the beginning of the 6000 years, do we have to wait for another 999 years for Christ to come? I've also read about this. But the reason we keep Sunday is because the 8000 year is the beginning of eternity.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

I agree, yet if they don't come back they truly never had Faith.
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You cannot stand on the one and ignore the other. You stand on both.

In Christ
Daniel

No. 1 John 2:19 was talking specifically to those gnostic believers; This verse in no way is a general truth for all people who stop following Jesus. In fact, we know a person can believe for a while and then fall away. This is what it says in Luke 8:13.

Also, you cannot wander away from the truth if you never had the truth.
This same truth is expressed in 1 Timothy 5. For we learn of believing widows who turned aside after Satan. Now, let's understand something here, you cannot turn aside after Satan if you already in his grip.


...
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Do you know where it is written about the 7000 year as the millennium? Also, if we are at the beginning of the 6000 years, do we have to wait for another 999 years for Christ to come? I've also read about this. But the reason we keep Sunday is because the 8000 year is the beginning of eternity.

Well, I agree with JLB77 on this point.
According to the genealogy of Jesus Christ and counting history from Christ's ministry, the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old. Now, past the 6,000 year mark is the period of time known as the age of grace. Grace is a time of not remembering our sins. Also, we will not know the day or the hour of the Lord's return, too. Anyways, when the Millennium comes, it will be 1,000 years. This is a total of 7,000. Then comes the Judgment and the New Heavens and New Earth (with the city of New Jerusalem coming down from out of Heaven). This begins the number 8. If you were to put the number 8 on it's side, it is the infinity symbol. Also, the meaning behind the number 8 in the BIble is "new beginnings." We see this all over Scripture.

I would suggest watching Mike Hoggard's study on the number 8 in the Bible to see where we are coming from:



...
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
It doesn't matter how much of the letter you quote, I very much doubt you understand the heart of the message.
You asked me to quote scripture and we could discuss it. I did as you asked in post 1601. S rupture relating to justification/ sanctification, following the true path of grace.
I asked you some questions concerning it. You chose not to respond.
Anyone can quote the letter my friend selectively, it doesn't mean they understand the true message.
People who didn't know God quoted it extensively when Jesus walked this earth

Remember when we agreed to read the NT from Romans through Jude? And you said you would join me and maybe even be open to modify your beliefs? Let's still do that with an open mind. Talk to you later about what we've learned.
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Well, I agree with JLB77 on this point.
According to the genealogy of Jesus Christ and counting history from Christ's ministry, the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old. Now, past the 6,000 year mark is the period of time known as the age of grace. Grace is a time of not remembering our sins. Also, we will not know the day or the hour of the Lord's return, too. Anyways, when the Millennium comes, it will be 1,000 years. This is a total of 7,000. Then comes the Judgment and the New Heavens and New Earth (with the city of New Jerusalem coming down from out of Heaven). This begins the number 8. If you were to put the number 8 on it's side, it is the infinity symbol. Also, the meaning behind the number 8 in the BIble is "new beginnings." We see this all over Scripture.

I would suggest watching Mike Hoggard's study on the number 8 in the Bible to see where we are coming from:



...

Hi Jason, I thought the Day of Pentecost began the age of grace? Not so???
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Remember when we agreed to read the NT from Romans through Jude? And you said you would join me and maybe even be open to modify your beliefs? Let's still do that with an open mind. Talk to you later about what we've learned.

I have been doing the reading; But I did not say I would modify what I believe to be core truths of the Bible. I have already read these books before. Yes, I will share anything new I might have missed before, but my core beliefs are not going to be radicially changed with yet another reading on these books. If you feel there is something in these books that says otherwise, then verses needed to be presented in context (backed up with cross references).

Anyways, in the mean time, happy reading.
We can share our new discoveries, but I am not so sure any of us are going to change in what we believe are core beliefs here.


...
 
Upvote 0

JLB777

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2012
5,905
1,258
✟403,811.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
As I said to you before, I am not going to get into the topic of the definition of repentance with you again. We have already beat the horse to death and do not agree. So let it go.



Yes, I agree, the gospel needs to be obeyed.
I believe a complete gospel involves walking in God's righteous ways as a part of accepting the Lord and believing in His death and resurrection.


....

Agree.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi Jason, I thought the Day of Pentecost began the age of grace? Not so???

Well, technically the New Covenant began with Christ's death. So I would place the age of grace starting with Christ's death. I am referring to a different time table by looking at God's prophetic calendar through the lens of the age of the Earth, His crucifixion, the Millennium, and the Eternal New Earth.


...
 
Upvote 0

JLB777

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2012
5,905
1,258
✟403,811.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So while we wait for the millennium reign of Christ, do you believe the Christians kept the 7th day Sabbath? And do you?

Not according to the law of Moses.

I do believe that people need to take a day off and rest each week.


JLB
 
Upvote 0

JLB777

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2012
5,905
1,258
✟403,811.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So while we wait for the millennium reign of Christ, do you believe the Christians kept the 7th day Sabbath? And do you?

Do you know where it is written about the 7000 year as the millennium? Also, if we are at the beginning of the 6000 years, do we have to wait for another 999 years for Christ to come? I've also read about this. But the reason we keep Sunday is because the 8000 year is the beginning of eternity.

4000 Years from Adam to Christ.
2000 years from Christ to today.

He is coming soon.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Not according to the law of Moses.

I do believe that people need to take a day off and rest each week.


JLB

Interesting way of looking at the Sabbath.


...
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,510
7,861
...
✟1,194,809.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Oh, and it makes sense that the Millennium is the #7 or the seventh day on God's prophetic calendar of a thousand years is like a day.

It is a Sabbath rest for the Earth.
For the Earth was full of sin for 6,000 plus years (with God working to save man).
The Millennium is a time of Christ's 1,000 year reign where righteousness will rule.


...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,606
65
✟70,925.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Remember when we agreed to read the NT from Romans through Jude? And you said you would join me and maybe even be open to modify your beliefs? Let's still do that with an open mind. Talk to you later about what we've learned.
Please quote my post where I said I would be open to modify my beliefs concerning what we have been discussing. I Can't modify them concerning not being under the law, and for a very good reason:



The power of sin is the law

1cor15:56

I don't want the power of sin in my life
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Yup. If we have gotten recognition from men, God will not reward us because we have already gotten our reward.

Matthew 6:1
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
4000 Years from Adam to Christ.
2000 years from Christ to today.

He is coming soon.

Interpreting the creation week into 1000 year periods is not in the Bible, except for the 1 day is as a 1000 year to God, but where did you see it as prophecy? I know where I read that prophecy, so just curious where you got is as a prophecy?
 
Upvote 0