The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the false accusation made by a certain poster that I demand of others what I do not do myself:

Well, I said before that obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and being perfect should be the goal of every believer. Not obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and not being perfect is not a salvation issue. For disobeying some of these commands (sin) leads to spiritual death (Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8) and disobeying some of these other commands does not lead to spiritual death (1 John 1:9) (1 Peter 3:21). For there are sins unto spiritual death and sins not unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).

My walk is generally upright with the Lord; If I stumble on occasion, I confess and forsake those sins (Which would be the same standard I would hold for every believer) (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, cf. Proverbs 28:13). God calls us to conform to the image of Christ. The difference between me and the Eternal Security proponent is that I do not expect to sin from some uncontrollable sin nature and yet think I am automatically still saved when I do so (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality - See Jude 1:4 (NIV)). I believe the Lord Jesus can help me to forever crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). This takes time in walking uprightly in the Lord and all glory goes to Him for that (and not myself). For John 15:5 says that without Jesus, we can do nothing.


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[stuart lawrence]

If what they tell you is from God, then yes.

But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. Acts 4:19



JLB

They did not practice what they preached.( Matt23:3) They showed no love to their neighbour by crushing them with impossible burdens.( Verse4) This CANNOT refer to their man made rules, for they did faultlessly practice them.
The Pharisees loved the praise of men more than the praise of God( john12:43)
They neglected the love of God( luke11:42)
And they had no love for their neighbour, or they would not have demanded of them what they did not demand of themselves.
These are the most fatal charges against them.
I agree their man made rules negated some Commandments. That is very bad, but it wasn't the core of the problem, it wasn't the root.
The reason they crushed people with the law given at Sania is because they insisted the letter of it must be faultlessly kept.
That letter kills, and was the ministry of death and condemnation( 2cor3). They preached the letter without the heart of the message

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why couldn't the Pharisees believe?
How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God
John 5:44

 

[stuart lawrence]

As for the false accusation made by a certain poster that I demand of others what I do not do myself:

Well, I said before that obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and being perfect should be the goal of every believer. Not obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and not being perfect is not a salvation issue. For disobeying some of these commands (sin) leads to spiritual death (Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8) and disobeying some of these other commands does not lead to spiritual death (1 John 1:9) (1 Peter 3:21). For there are sins unto spiritual death and sins not unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).

My walk is generally upright with the Lord; If I stumble on occasion, I confess and forsake those sins (Which would be the same standard I would hold for every believer) (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, cf. Proverbs 28:13). God calls us to conform to the image of Christ. The difference between me and the Eternal Security proponent is that I do not expect to sin from some uncontrollable sin nature and yet think I am automatically still saved when I do so (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality - See Jude 1:4 (NIV)). I believe the Lord Jesus can help me to forever crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). This takes time in walking uprightly in the Lord and all glory goes to Him for that (and not myself). For John 15:5 says that without Jesus, we can do nothing.


...

You quoted those who don't obey Jesus Commandments are liars and the truth is not in them.

I correctly pointed out you do not even try and obey all of Christ's commands, so you must be testifying you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Then of course you are also demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Preaching the letter kills. And it kills the people who preach it. So They cannot practice what they preach.
Preaching the partial letter demanding you nigh on faultlessly obey it, without allowing for the love, mercy and compassion of God, is just cold, hard, hypocritical religion

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Holy Spirit can only empower the saved to cease/ overcome sin, not the unsaved.
If you believe any of the post you are referring to was incorrect, please state why

You don't have to cease sin BEFORE becoming saved. Why? Because you can't. It is part of the unsaved nature. But you must be able to recognize that you can't and cry out to God. Jesus then saves you and cleanses you from your past sins, and also gives you the Holy Spirit to insure you have POWER to cease by changing your desire to sin, and fill you with love. Now all you want to do is find out all you can by reading scripture, your radio choices change to Christian stations. Your hunger for God is insatiable.

Becoming saved and being given the Holy Spirit is at the same time, not later. For without the Spirit you are not saved. BTW The evidence of the Spirit is being dead to sin, not tongues.

Does that mean you will never be tempted. No. We all are tempted, but now you have the POWER to say, no.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You quoted those who don't obey Jesus Commandments are liars and the truth is not in them.

I correctly pointed out you do not even try and obey all of Christ's commands, so you must be testifying you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Then of course you are also demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself.

What makes you so sure that Jason doesn't obey all of Christ's commands? What do you know of for sure that Jason has done? Assumptions don't count.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well, I said before that obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and being perfect should be the goal of every believer. Not obeying all of the commands in the New Testament and not being perfect is not a salvation issue. For disobeying some of these commands (sin) leads to spiritual death (Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8) and disobeying some of these other commands does not lead to spiritual death (1 John 1:9) (1 Peter 3:21). For there are sins unto spiritual death and sins not unto spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).

My walk is generally upright with the Lord; If I stumble on occasion, I confess and forsake those sins (Which would be the same standard I would hold for every believer) (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, cf. Proverbs 28:13). God calls us to conform to the image of Christ. The difference between me and the Eternal Security proponent is that I do not expect to sin from some uncontrollable sin nature and yet think I am automatically still saved when I do so (Thereby turning God's grace into a license for immorality - See Jude 1:4 (NIV)). I believe the Lord Jesus can help me to forever crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). This takes time in walking uprightly in the Lord and all glory goes to Him for that (and not myself). For John 15:5 says that without Jesus, we can do nothing.


...

The term spiritual death is to die spiritually, so you are saying spiritual death is to be not saved, right?

So, in your own words you are unsaved every time you sin, which gives you no assurance in Christ what so ever and would mean that probably every time we interact with you, you are on your way to H E double-toothpick, correct?

 

[ToBeLoved]

What makes you so sure that Jason doesn't obey all of Christ's commands? What do you know of for sure that Jason has done? Assumptions don't count.

I know for sure he doesn't. This person has bared false witness against me so many times after I have corrected his misconceptions over and over.

Exodus 20:16
16 "You shall not bear false~ witness against your neighbor.

One of the 10 Commandments, broken. He has broken them all according to the law. He will still bare false witness if you are not around to correct it. So it continues, not like he repented and stopped. Nope.

It is an everyday occurence. Some talk, some do.

The biggest one that is constant is that he says that those who believe OSAS advocate for sin and being sinful. This could not be further from the truth.

 

[Alithis]

Some people can't discuss the theology and in error start creating and supporting untrue arguments.

We need to get this back to discussing theology and scripture, not running off on untrue tangents. Great post.

1.Do we need to be obedient to be Lord Jesus to be saved?
And2.
Will we be saved if we consistently remain disobedient even though we claim with our lips to “believe him“
Is it possible to believe him than Not be obediedient to him.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You don't have to cease sin BEFORE becoming saved. Why? Because you can't. It is part of the unsaved nature. But you must be able to recognize that you can't and cry out to God. Jesus then saves you and cleanses you from your past sins, and also gives you the Holy Spirit to insure you have POWER to cease by changing your desire to sin, and fill you with love. Now all you want to do is find out all you can by reading scripture, your radio choices change to Christian stations. Your hunger for God is insatiable.

Becoming saved and being given the Holy Spirit is at the same time, not later. For without the Spirit you are not saved. BTW The evidence of the Spirit is being dead to sin, not tongues.

Does that mean you will never be tempted. No. We all are tempted, but now you have the POWER to say, no.

So you don't believe all sin must cease before we can be saved. We agree then

 

[stuart lawrence]

What makes you so sure that Jason doesn't obey all of Christ's commands? What do you know of for sure that Jason has done? Assumptions don't count.

Answer honestly. Don't follow the flesh!

How many people do you know who try and follow each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels?

To Jason's credit, when I put to him he doesn't strive to follow them all, he doesn't deny that is true

 

[Dan61861]

What makes you so sure that Jason doesn't obey all of Christ's commands? What do you know of for sure that Jason has done? Assumptions don't count.

Because the bible is very clear, there is only one that is good. God and God alone is good. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).


...

And these are His commandments, love God and love your nieghbor. If you do this you will fulfill the law.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

And these are His commandments, love God and love your nieghbor. If you do this you will fulfill the law.

In Christ
Daniel

If you had to look to each and every literal commandment of Christ and obey them, or you show you dont love Christ, I have met no saved Christian in over forty years of going to various denominational churches. For I have met no one who has even tried to obey each and every literal command of Christ. And if you don't love Jesus, how could you be saved?
Also, if salvation hinged on obeying each and every literal command of Christ, you are under a far more severe letter that kills than the one Paul spoke of in 2cor ch3. For Christ's commandments are to a higher standard than the literal words of the TC.
People need to stop making pat statements that have no bearing on the reality of their own life.
You are right. You don't obey the law by striving to obey each and every literalcommandnent.
Paul showed us the truth, in line with what you wrote:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so FULFILL the law if Christ
Gal6:2

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You quoted those who don't obey Jesus Commandments are liars and the truth is not in them.

I correctly pointed out you do not even try and obey all of Christ's commands, so you must be testifying you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Then of course you are also demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself.

The context of 1 John 2:4 is 1 John 1:9.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
These would be the sins that do not lead unto death that John talks about in 1 John 5.
So the commands in 1 John 2:4 are the weightier laws or commands that we keep that relate to our good standing with God. A person cannot murder, hate, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. and say that they also know Jesus. Nowhere does John mention how minor sins will condemn us. John says if you hate your brother you do not have eternal life abiding in you. Remember, Jesus said to the Pharisees that they should have ignored tithing cumin, etc.and they should have had love, faith, justice, and mercy instead.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And these are His commandments, love God and love your nieghbor. If you do this you will fulfill the law.

In Christ
Daniel

Galatians 5:14 does not say love God. It only says love your neighbor. This "loving your neighbor" was the fulfilling of the Old Law. Paul uses this as an example to show that the OT law is fulfilled by us loving others. But does not the OT also tell us to love God, too? It sure does. So Paul here is not saying that just loving your neighbor is all you need to do. That is not the point he is making. He is trying to get those who are into circumcision salvationism to follow the new ways of the New Covenant.

Also, just telling a person to love God and love their neighbor does not automatically mean they are loving God and loving their neighbor according to God's Word. The rest of the detailed commands fills us in as how to properly love God and our neighbor.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

The context of 1 John 2:4 is 1 John 1:9.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
These would be the sins that do not lead unto death that John talks about in 1 John 5.
So the commands in 1 John 2:4 are the weightier laws or commands that we keep that relate to our good standing with God. A person cannot murder, hate, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. and say that they also know Jesus. Nowhere does John mention how minor sins will condemn us. John says if you hate your brother you do not have eternal life abiding in you. Remember, Jesus said to the Pharisees that they should have ignored tithing cumin, etc.and they should have had love, faith, justice, and mercy instead.


...

I don't see how the above refers to the post you are responding to.
You quoted those who don't obey Jesus Commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. Does that include you, or are you exempt?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Galatians 5:14 does not say love God. It only says love your neighbor. This "loving your neighbor" was the fulfilling of the Old Law. Paul uses this as an example to show that the OT law is fulfilled by us loving others. But does not the OT also tell us to love God, too? It sure does. So Paul here is not saying that just loving your neighbor is all you need to do. That is not the point he is making. He is trying to get those who are into circumcision salvationism to follow the new ways of the New Covenant.

Also, just telling a person to love God and love their neighbor does not automatically mean they are loving God and loving their neighbor according to God's Word. The rest of the detailed commands fills us in as how to properly love God and our neighbor.


...

Loving God and your neighbour only fulfilled the old law, not NC law/ commands.
Where did you get that idea from?

 

[Dan61861]

The context of 1 John 2:4 is 1 John 1:9.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
These would be the sins that do not lead unto death that John talks about in 1 John 5.
So the commands in 1 John 2:4 are the weightier laws or commands that we keep that relate to our good standing with God. A person cannot murder, hate, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. and say that they also know Jesus. Nowhere does John mention how minor sins will condemn us. John says if you hate your brother you do not have eternal life abiding in you. Remember, Jesus said to the Pharisees that they should have ignored tithing cumin, etc.and they should have had love, faith, justice, and mercy instead.


...

Jason, the wages of sin is death. The only sins that do not lead to death are...blessed is the man whom the Lord does not impute sin. The sins that do not lead to death are the sins God has forgiven. Through Christ's passion we are made clean.

In Christ
Daniel