The Double Message of Eternal Security.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Can you not understand very plain statements, or can you just not bring yourself to ever admit you are wrong?
Paul was blameless regarding OC law not applicable under NC law.

Can you not understand that? Do you need further, more detailed explanation?

Not true. He said he was the chief of sinners and he struggled with keeping the moral law according to Romans 7:14-24. He was only blameless in the Pharisee religion and not the Torah.

Certain saints were faithful and saved in the OT. This does not mean they were under a failed system. It was the Pharisee religion that was false. I mean, do you remember when Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law? Do you remember Jesus saying they had man made traditions? Paul was a part of this false religion that had man made traditions.


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stuart lawrence

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For through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death
Rom8:2

A man becomes a Christian. He has been an alcoholic for thirty years due to an an abusive childhood. The scars go deep. Now it is true some get instantly delieverd of some sin when they get saved, for many others it takes time.
The man hates his drinking addiction. There is nothing more he desires than to be free of it, for he wants to follow Christ more than anything. He follows after the law of the Spirit of life, not the law of sin and death. He trusts Christ for the victory over alcoholism, he does not trust in a righteousness of observing the law/ the law of sin and death.
While he is doing this, Satan relentlessly tells him he cannot be in a saved state and Drink as he does, for Christians cannot go around sinning like he is and expect to remain saved. And Satan plants a few scriptures in the man's head to endorse this view, for he is quite happy to quote scripture out of context if it suits him.
But the man clings to Christ, like a limpet clinging to a rock, trusting his righteousness is the Son of God who loved him and himself for him. Now only one of my two things are possible here. Either the man's faith in Christ collapses or he sees victory over his alcoholism. Thankfully his faith holds up and he sees the victory. That is the law of the Spirit of life.
The law of sin and death, that many Insisting you must be under says:
Look to the commandment: thou shalt not covet. That is applicable NC law. You cannot be righteous unless you obey it. So if you lust and die before you repent of it you will be cast into hell.
But these people refuse to see. No matter how much plain scripture you give them. They just ignore it, pick a random verse and misapply it to oppose the plainest of scripture they have been shown

The man delivered from alcohol lived under righteousness apart from observing the law( the truth Paul wrote of). And his faith was seen not to be dead faith by the victory that followed. The truth James wrote of
 
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stuart lawrence

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Not true. He said he was the chief of sinners and he struggled with keeping the moral law according to Romans 7:14-24. He was only blameless in the Pharisee religion and not the Torah.

Certain saints were faithful and saved in the OT. This does not mean they were under a failed system. It was the Pharisee religion that was false. I mean, do you remember when Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law? Do you remember Jesus saying they had man made traditions? Paul was a part of this false religion that had man made traditions.


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Your pride still makes you refuse to admit you are wrong doesn't it
Yep Paul struggled and failed to obey the moral law. Law that is applicable NC law. He faultlessly obeyed the rest of the old law, that is not carried over into NC law
 
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Paul was a part of this Pharisee religion (which Jesus condemned):

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." (Matthew 23:23).


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stuart lawrence

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Paul was a part of this Pharisee religion (which Jesus condemned):

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." (Matthew 23:23).


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Yep. They cleaned the outside of the cup/ faultlessly observed the old law, but on the inside were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean. They didn't obey the moral law
 
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See the "False Pharisee Religion" is very similar to most (not all versions) of "Eternal Security." The Pharisees thought they were immune to breaking God's laws because God and Abraham were their fathers. In John 8, Jesus says,

“I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” (John 8:37).

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."" (John 8:39).

"Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin."" (John 8:34) (NIV).

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;”"(John 8:31).


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stuart lawrence

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See the "False Pharisee Religion" is very similar to most (not all versions) of "Eternal Security." The Pharisees thought they were immune to breaking God's laws because God and Abraham were their fathers. In John 8, Jesus says,

“I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” (John 8:37).

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."" (John 8:39).

"Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin."" (John 8:34) (NIV).

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;”"(John 8:31).


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The Pharisees did not practice time what they preached Jesus said. And that did NOT refer to their man made rules. For where they were concerned they DID practice what they preached

No one who earnestly preaches a law of righteousness can or does practice what they preach
 
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stuart lawrence

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“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).


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As you do not even try to obey each and every commandment of Christ, i take it you are proclaiming yourself a liar and stating the truth is not in you
 
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“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8 that if they were Abraham's children they would do the works of Abraham. Jesus said his word (God's Word) had no place within them. For it is why they could not understand Jesus and it is why they looked to kill Jesus. Jesus said that they were of their father the devil (See John 8:44).


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JLB777

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It was the Pharisee religion that was false.


So very true.

Many do not understand this important truth.

Judaism is a man made religion, that mixed the law of Moses, with the traditions of man, that rejects Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:13-14

This, Jesus said, made the word of God of no effect, blinding them to the arrival of the Messiah.

But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Matthew 15:5-6

God did not give the children of Israel, Judaism or any other religion.

God gives covenant relationship, not religion.

This, Jesus said, made the word of God of no effect, blinding them to the arrival of the Messiah.

The law of Moses, and all the Torah, and the the Psalms, as well as the prophets, were to point them to the Messiah.

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” Luke 24;44




JLB
 
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stuart lawrence

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The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you
But do not do what they do for they do not practice what they preach
Matt23:2&3

Once again the above does NOT refer to their man made rules/ traditions of man. Concerning them, they faultlessly practiced what they preached
 
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So very true.

Many do not understand this important truth.

Judaism is a man made religion, that mixed the law of Moses, with the traditions of man, that rejects Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:13-14

This, Jesus said, made the word of God of no effect, blinding them to the arrival of the Messiah.

But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Matthew 15:5-6

God did not give the children of Israel, Judaism or any other religion.

God gives covenant relationship, not religion.

This, Jesus said, made the word of God of no effect, blinding them to the arrival of the Messiah.

The law of Moses, and all the Torah, and the the Psalms, as well as the prophets, were to point them to the Messiah.

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” Luke 24;44




JLB

Well said, brother.
May God bless you this fine day.



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JLB777

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The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you
But do not do what they do for they do not practice what they preach
Matt23:2&3

Once again the above does NOT refer to their man made rules/ traditions of man. Concerning them, they faultlessly practiced what they preached

If what they tell you is from God, then yes.

But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. Acts 4:19



JLB
 
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