The doctrine of Election.

[Neostarwcc]

From Genesis to Revelation God has always talked about his chosen people from all across the globe. From every tribe, people, and nation. Yet many Christian's like to twist the word of God into saying what it just isn't saying. They insist that Election has to do with God looking into the future and seeing who would believe and who wouldnt but just where in scripture does it say that? Take a look at Ephesians 1 and Roman's 8:29. Paul says that those who God foreknew he predestined. So basically what Arminians are claiming is that God predestined everyone. Just look at what Paul said. "Those who God foreknew he predestined."

I tell you now like so many before me have said. If God left salvation up to a completely fallen, totally deprived race than not one human would have EVER found salvation. Even the Prophets needed God! God would have said "Here's salvation! All you have to do is believe!" And not one person would have believed. The fact of the matter is, we need God.
Mankind post fall has always been totally deprived and has always needed God. Why do you think we need to be sanctified after we're saved? We have to be sanctified because without God we are stuck in our sins, FOREVER! Without our glorification we are stuck in our sins forever and could NEVER reach God! Without the Holy Spirit we never would have been regenerated and able to accept the gospel. We never would have a guide for our lives here on earth and our sanctification and glorification.


No, the fact of the matter is, from Genesis to Revelation God has had a chosen race. You are part of it, I am part of it. We didnt choose God, but God chose US. Salvation is a work of God not a work of man. If it were possible for man to accept God and be righteous what did Christ die for? If Christ's death weren't all sufficient to save the Elect of God forever, he died for nothing. You cant have all that are drawn to God saved because then we'd be arguing universalism ecause God says that all who God draws will be raised on the last day and will be eternally saved.

No the fact of the matter is, Election is real. Predestination is real. God elected us to be confirmed to the image of his son. We were saved to obey God and to be with God forever, not to do whatever we want and dillydaddle our whole lives. It is those who listen to the word of God and do what it says that are the children of God.

 

[Mr. M]

2 Corinthians 6:1. We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive
the grace of God in vain.
2 Peter 1:10. Wherefore brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.
Revelation 17:14. These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.
Matthew 7:21. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 22:14. For many are called, but few are chosen. [chosen=elect]

 

[Josheb]

They insist that Election has to do with God looking into the future and seeing who would believe and who wouldnt but just where in scripture does it say that?

Sure there is: Romans 9

Romans 9:8-18
"This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: 'About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.' And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad — in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls — she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' As it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."​

Pretty clear:

• God chose Jacob before Jacob was born.
• God chose Jacob before Jacob was born for God's purpose of election.
• God chose Jacob before Jacob was born for God's purpose based on God's will.
• It had nothing to do with how Jacob walked (works) or how Jacob willed.

This is just as true for those living in a covenant relationship with God (Jacob) as it is with those living outside such a relationship (Esau and Pharaoh). The children of flesh are not God's children. The children of promise are.

Whose promise? God's!
What promise? The promise of a single seed that is Christ.

So, no, we are not mistaken when we stand firmly on scripture to say God made these choices before we were born.

There isn't a single example of soteriologically relevant choosing that doesn't have God choosing the person/group, choosing the person/group first, choosing the person/group first before they have any idea what they are chosen for, and (having already been chosen first) only afterwards being asked to choose.

Noah
Abraham
Gideon
Moses
Pharaoh
Israel
David
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Daniel
Ezekiel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi
Simon Peter
Andrew
James
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Matthew
Thomas
James bar Alphaeus
Simon the Zealot
Judas bar James
Judas Iscariot
Matthias
Saul

And most of them probably would have turned down the offer had they known and been asked before hand.

So scripture tells us both explicitly and through numerous examples that salvation is based first upon God will and that will is based upon His purpose. We are saved by grace, through faith, for works and not by works lest anyone think they have something to boast about regarding their salvation. It is not of ourselves.

If God shows up and reveals Himself, no matter what form, you cannot not believe. That is where volitionalism fails.

 

[Josheb]

So basically what Arminians are claiming is that God predestined everyone.

Fail.

That's not an accurate representation of Arminian soteriology at all.

The Arminian view holds God's predestination to be a categorical condition: those who choose God by faith are thusly qualified for all the blessing God has already predestined for that group. God did not predestine the individual; He predestined the blessings they would receive.

This op is arguing a straw man.





(and for the record: I am not Arm)

 

[Josheb]

From Genesis to Revelation God has always talked about his chosen people from all across the globe.

I'm encouraged to see by your profile that you're a Cal, but I have to say this op argues a couple of straw men.

This reflects poorly on Cals. This is also a very common, all too frequently occurring error on both sides of the debate. In fact, I would venture the single most common error in this debate is the failure to adequately understand the various views correctly. The problem is so common and so severe that even Arms fail to get Arminianism correct and Cals fail to get Calvinism correct. The net result is two parties both arguing straw men! Arminianism is not Pelagianism but it is frequently presented as such unawares that what was asserted is Pelagian. Calvinism is not determinism but it is frequently presented (aware and unawares) as such. The nuances ranging from Calvin to Luther to Augustine to Arminius to Wesley to Pelagius are lost on many.

This is why it is best to read the originals and the formal doctrinal statements and not just later summaries and interpretations of those views.

 

[Rachel20]

The "elect" are Israel and Jesus. The rest of us are chosen "in Christ". We're not the elect.