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The difference between MJ and Christianity?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Nani-Day, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Guest

    +0
    That’s a mouth full ;). For example can those displaying a MJ icon fully agree on what all encompasses an interpretation/meaning of --”the fact that you subscribe fully to MJ teaching etc.” FWIW, I’m not attacking you or the SOP, but rather pointing out what appears/seems may be a belief by some that it’s impossible for a “Christian” to fully subscribe to the new simplier SOP and still be a “Christian.”

    If such a position exists at this MJ forum it would seem to suggest that anyone displaying a Christian icon is a christian in name only and not a true messianic follower/disciple of Y'shua. Doesn’t the possibility that such a MJ misconception may exist at CF seem just a little prejudicial?

    Is it actually possible for someone that's Oriental-Orthodox or Pilgrim/Monastic allowed to post their Messianic perspective on MJ threads without displaying a MJ icon? In light of the new simplier SOP why is it that a “Christian” that agrees with the new simplier SOP may still be endangered and warned if they post their Messianic Christian perspective in a MJ thread? For example I posted a video link to Rabbi Michael Schiffman’s explanation of Messianic Judaism and no one reprimanded me (not yet). In fact Messianic Jewboy checked it out and posted on same thread that Rabbi Schiffman’s explanation of Messianic Judaism was “pretty good.”
    Considering the language of the new SOP why is it so impossible for a Messianic Gentile Christian that agrees to it’s language not display a Christian faith icon. Besides, it’s not unheard of for a Messianic Jew to refer to their religious beliefs as being Christian.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  2. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    Take your moans to the Mods.
     
  3. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Guest

    +0
    Strictly newbie clarifrication :) not moaning! Howevver, your comment does imply that a Gentile Christian Messianic follower of Y'shua that fully agrees with the SOP may still not be allowed the posting privilege as that of an Oriental-Orthodox Messianic or Pilgrim/Monastic Messianic follower of Y'shua. Therefore, no use bothering a Moderator. Like you previously expressed the time may come where I too may "just sit and read my scroll, shaking in the corner watching for unexpected PMs! :prayer:

    Still don't know what to make of your reference to "MJ bigot" :confused: and probably best for you not to explain or elaborate on your last sentence in same post. :thumbsup:

    I do appreciate your replies (all is helpful), in seeking further clarification as to whether or not a Messianic Gentile Christian displaying a "Christian" icon can participate and post as seemingly one of Oriental Orthodox or Pilgrim/Monastic religion is permitted without displaying a MJ faith icon.

    My posts were seeking clarification (not an attack) on what appears be a double standard or at the least representative of certain aspects of any 'religion' that we'll just have to live with--without moaning. My desire was to do whatever is necessary to diminish/avoid any moderator warning. Mainly interested in determining if a Christian Messianic can receive same posting privilege as an Oriental-Orthodox Messianic or Pilgrim/Monastic Messianic. Thought perhaps you might know :)


     
  4. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

    +228
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    It is still there.

    And only one was ever evicted. Not because he was Jewish, or even because of his views. He was evicted for being discourteous.

    You don't know anybody like that, do you? ;)
     
  5. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    See above, in red.


     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +1,041
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    If I may say...

    Seeing that I was going to respond to someone else but noticed I kept being referenced in 3rd party person by my description, I did want to note some things.

    The issue of having Dual Citizenship on forums is NOT a new reality - it has been in practice for over 4yrs now. I found that out directly from other forums - as in the Orthodox forums, not all Orthodox have an Orthodox icon and yet others know who they are, where they stand and its identifiable in their signatures or the body of postings they make.

    The same goes for the Anglican Forum and the Lutheran forum and many others - there have actually been a couple of times someone had a Messianic icon in another forum (lets say the Spirit-Filled/Charismatic section) but it was fine since it was noticeable in their signatures, Bios, the body of their writings and other dynamics - and they were simultaneously Charismatic/Spirit-Filled as well. If one was capable of having DUAL icons displayed, it'd make things more simple - but because of that dynamic not being available, self-identification/history is what the mods went by....and still do.

    Within THIS forum, it has been the case for 3 years where other posters who were Messianic and yet involved in other parts of the Church didn't need to have a Messianic icon in order to be considered Messianic. People such a Contra Mundum come to mind - Jewish and Christian, yet not needing the icon. Others are people like Daughter of Ararat (who's similar to me in that she attended a Messianic synagogue as a Messianic Gentile but was Armenian Orthodox/OO as well).


    You also have people such as SGM4HIM (who isn't here as much anymore and missed) and Yoseft - a Messianic Jew yet WITHOUT a Messianic icon. The list goes on. And if you go to UMJC/MJAA-Based Messianic Judaism group, you'll see multiple people who've all participated in the Messianic Forum here - some of them gone due to issues of life they had to take care of, some of them posting in other forums and others who are still here.


    On what my experience is, I had talked to the mods years ago when I had the Messianic Icon but was involved in the Orthodox forum too - they knew where I stood and noted that as long as you verified with mods BEFORE doing things, it was fine. And the people in the Orthodox Forum were well aware of my background in the Messianic world (as all it took was using the search engine to see my postings in the forum on Torah, Biblical Festivals/Feasts, Sabbath, etc.) - I was very open to others on the matter as I am here and they knew how I worked with Jewish people often and attended a Messianic Jewish Synagogue, even though our leaning was toward that in the Church which was Eastern Christian, Middle-Eastern or focused on Jews expressing Messianic Jewish culture in Liturgical/Apostolic Christianity. And last April, I changed my icon to Oriental Orthodox - but kept the term "Messianic" in my signature alongside my Bio (which always identified me as OO and Messianic - as Oriental Orthodoxy has the best expression of Jewish heritage, I felt comfortable doing so ...as shared here.

    As others chose to make it an issue at one point, Tishri came in last year officially note what was already in practice for multiple others on THIS forum - as well as requesting for me to put "MJ Synagogue" in the signature for others who either didn't understand or chose not to read it. But as far as having dual identification, it should be noted that it was NEVER a random ad-hoc rule change since several mods noted the same thing years before.

    Messianics have always been those who also identify with those in the Christian world as well - we even have a forum for that purpose known as Bridge Builders - a "place of acceptance and fellowship for folks who are seeking to be that bridge between the Church and the Jewish Nation, or who may be seeking help in building a bridge within their own family , struggling to live between a chasm of two faiths." The Messianic Movement in many places has never advocated that one cannot identify as a Christian if they are Messianic - and part of the ongoing battle the movement has is that there are elements within it that are devoted to being against any/every thing that is Christian and those doing so feel that they alone are what defines "Messianic Judaism".....

    But here, the focus is not meant to be that. The forum itself - being a Faith Group at Christian Forums - was never designed nor meant to be divorced from anything labeled "Christian" - and this is something the Messianic Jewish movement has noted for ages as well as CF when it came to the umbrella of Christianity that all faith groups are unde

    People coming here do so because they value the Jewish people/seek to reach out to them (as the SOP noted more explictly when it was the stance of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America - back when I first came around 4-5yrs ago - more discussed in #15and #48 or #69and #48 or /here in #586 ) - and they are here because they value honoring/celebrating God's Torah as it concerns Torah Observant Jews and Gentiles together. Some here are under the impression (sadly) that a disagreement with their preference for Torah Observance/where they are at means others don't do Torah Observance - but Messianic Judaism has always understood how there are differing levels of observance (the heart/motives above all being what God looks at) - and thus, the goal has been to be as flexible as possible with the wide range of expressions in Messianic Judaism when here.



    All of that is said to again make the point that there has never been double-standard...AND for your own review, you can investigate the threads addressing it such as Is This Forum Closed To Christians? on the issue of identification or the thread entitled Icons and the last few years on CF which is where Tishri actually noted what she did to clarify for others not aware of what was practiced throughout CF..... or here among other places.

    All that is to say is that it's only a Double-Standard if you claim to be a Christian but have ZERO VALUE for the Messianic Community - or have chosen to be against it. But if you're a Christian who also is involved in a Messianic fellowship or have consistently identified with Messianic Jewish culture, all one needs to do is give verification of it.....and that's that.

    Sometimes, if a person had a Messianic Icon but said they valued the Catholic Church/worked in it, there were moments other Messianics claimed they couldn't post - and that was also addressed due to the fact that Messianic Judaism itself was never just

    Hope that helps clarify and I pray that what I said isn't taken the wrong way. I simply felt I needed to share in light of how it seemed you were exclusively focusing on me as if I was the ONLY ONE somehow given special privileges when it was never the case. I don't have "free passes" on anything nor am I anymore "special" than you are - I just happen to know what the rules are and took time to ask as well as keep them in mind whenever others may have chosen to speak on them without knowing fully.

    I just happen to be very prolific and here more so than the many others who've been here over the years like myself.

    Shalom :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  7. Phillip Hawley

    Phillip Hawley Y'shua HaMoshiach based Messianic Jew

    +340
    Messianic
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    Hi AL, :wave:

    Welcome to the fray!
    It was decided some time back that the Messianic Judaism Forum was pretty much open to all believers in Messiah. All that is currently required is that the word 'Messianic' appear somewhere in your profile, either in you sig (as you have already done) or elsewhere. As far as Christian theology, I think you are safe. There are plenty of members nowadays that profess straight Christian dogma.

    Or the other way around. But as the new SoP suggests, it's not something we talk about.

    This forum used to be primarily Torah Observant Jews and Gentiles. Now, not so much.

    Like I said, this forum is reverting to a primarily Christian slant on things. There is the notable exceptions of some Messianic Jews whose primary focus is to provide a Messianic 'Jewish' environment to potential Jewish converts (to Y'shua as the Jewish Messiah, not necessarily to Christianity). Far as I can tell, you are OK.

    If you would like to put your fears to rest, PM one of the Mods listed at the top of the forum and they will give you the scoop on the whole dual-citizenship thing, what's allowed, etc.

    Hope this helps,
    Phillip
     
  8. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Agreed:)
     
  9. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Guest

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    YES! Thanks for your reply-- that certainly helps clarify. Thanks again for taking time to compose such a thorough detailed explanation. :thumbsup:

     
  10. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Guest

    +0
    Yes, very helpful! Thank you for background information :thumbsup:
    Everyone has been helpful, so not necessary to PM a Moderator.

     
  11. HannibalFlavius

    HannibalFlavius Well-Known Member

    +170
    Messianic
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    That dude is always so helpful.

    He always puts things into perspective rightly so's I can figure things out, you gotta be quick around here.

    I like your join date, its my birthday, God must have sent you special.

    But then, it isn't the 7th of Tevet.

    So sad that people don't calculate birthdays.

    Just rambling.
     
  12. daq

    daq Messianic

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    7 Tevet? Do you have plans to be born from above in 2018 Hanni or are you looking backwards?
    Have you been talking to the Watchers again? ^_^ :wave:
     
  13. HannibalFlavius

    HannibalFlavius Well-Known Member

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    I was born on the 7th of Tevet, but I am waiting to be born again.


    There are 3 days given for birth, wonder what day it will be.
     
  14. daq

    daq Messianic

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    Only three? I perceive five but concerning the second pair conception makes you nine months the elder of your helpmate. As for the first the Father breathed it himself, O ben Adam, but before that the Light is. The fourth you know. As for the fifth it is not for the talmidim to know the chronous or kairous which the Father has set in his own authority-power. :)
     
  15. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,312
    Messianic
    If you were a newbie walking into a MJ synagogue you would find, they call Jesus Yeshua, they use any other Jewish terms to describe things and doings, like mikvah rather than baptism. The reason is there is a little different understanding between the terms, and the congregations like the Hebrew understanding. You will find that the law is a way of life, just like it was for Yeshua, which they want to emulate. You will find that they keep the Sabbath, the feasts, the kosher diet, and any talk of "doing away with the law" is met with a ?? expression on their faces. Most had been there and thought that until they saw it was without foundation in scripture. You will find in the congregational gatherings that they sing, dance, praising, praying, and a much more serious bible study to the point where there is usually Hebrew classes, so that they can learn things right down to the letters and words before translation.

    Go visit any local MJ congregation and taste and see what it is like. There are different varieties and variations everywhere you go, so if we can help suggest a place close for you. Please ask, we will try to help.
     
  16. Nani-Day

    Nani-Day Lambda 11

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    Hello again, Sorry for disappearing. I thank you all for youre responses.

    To answer an earlier question, I was taught that the law is obsolete. Im assuming thats's different here?
     
  17. Alithis

    Alithis Diciple of Jesus .

    +856
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    odd the perceptions we pick up isn't it.
    i was taught "ALL Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for raining in righteousness;"

    also at the time Paul wrote that To Timothy i assumed he spoke of the entire old testament ,as i wouldn't have thought the new testament was yet compiled at the time.which meant the "all scripture" Paul referred to had to be what we now refer to as "the old testament".

    which makes sense because everything Paul expounded by way of doctrine he based soundly on what is already written in the law and the prophets.
    by inspiration of God he simply revealed their true eternal meaning.
    but there ya go,that's my pentecostal upbringing influence... no part of scripture excluded.:):)
     
  18. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,312
    Messianic
    I can still say have a happy birth date.
     
  19. HannibalFlavius

    HannibalFlavius Well-Known Member

    +170
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    See me when I hit my 7000th post.

    The last time that happened, my whole life changed, like a birth.


    I am sure I'll be born again on that post, I spent my time in the first change, and now for the second.

    I don't post as much as I want because I am trying to slow my birth down.


    This would be funny if it wasn't true.
     
  20. Yoseft

    Yoseft Veteran

    +547
    Messianic
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    By the way.

    Since I first joined, I can never get my faith icon, nor that I am married, my country, state / location, to show.

    I have tried numerous times and it seems hateful to me. :idea:

    Just sharing in case others wonder.
    [​IMG]