The difference between MJ and Christianity?

[Nani-Day]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between the two?

Im pretty interested.

 

[daq]

Hi Jaded,
Perhaps the reason you have not received any replies yet is because there are a multitude of differences and not only that but even within MJ there are differences just like in Christianity. If I had to pick the one greatest difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity today it would be Torah, the Law.

This is what the Master says about the Law:

Matthew 5:1-20 RSV (Revised Standard Edition)
1. SEEING THE crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down his disciples came to him.
2. And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
8. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10. "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13. "You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men.
14. "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.
15. Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.
16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
17. "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[MadMaxData]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between the two?

Im pretty interested.

That is a difficult question, because it depends on who you ask. Some will say there is no difference at all, and some will say the differences are many. Then there is everything in between. Messianic Judaism cannot really be defined, because there is such a huge difference of opinion. That is why you have not received many replies. All you can do is start reading about it and see where it takes you.

Is there any certain topic you would like to know more about from a "Messianic" point of view? Perhaps I could be of assistance in that area.

 

[jacks]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity? That is the belief of being saved by faith in Jesus and his divinity?

 

[Avodat]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity? That is the belief of being saved by faith in Jesus and his divinity?

Christianity is about following, or being a disciple of, Yeshua. It usually revolves, almost excusively, around the latter part of The Book (NT) and the so calied 10 Commandments, the Psalms and most of the 'Christmas' and Yeshua prophecies.

MJ, at root, restores the whole of The Book as being of equal value and importance in everyday living - how that works out is, as other posters have said, really quite variable. However, that said, most MJs uphold the need to follow, in addition to the latter part of The Book, the Feasts outlined in the Tanach, and those parts of the Law that can be followed today (as we have no physical Temple, not all can be followed). Debate continues as to whether Gentiles should be following the whole Law, or not, or to what extent; some do, to varying degrees, some do not.

MJ is made up of both Jews and Gentiles who believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah of the whole world, as testified in The Book, from Genesis to Revelation.

In these ways MJ is very different to evangelicalism, though we share the four definitions that Bebbington used to define an evangelical; the defining characteristics that have become standard academic terms for an evangelical are: conversionism, activism, Biblicism, and crucicentrism (conversion, action, the Bible and the Cross).

 

[MadMaxData]

Christianity is about following, or being a disciple of, Yeshua. It usually revolves, almost exclusively, around the latter part of The Book (NT)....

Unfortunately, so does this MJ forum. That has always bothered me too. I'm one of those weirdos that believes the Tanakh should be the foundation for all Biblical doctrines. If something in the NT is directly opposed to the teachings of the Tanakh it should be tossed. Period. And there are indeed instances of that very thing. Some attempt to explain it away by claiming it is just a "misunderstanding of Sha'ul" or something to that effect [I was in that group at one time] but that is not always the case. I think the heart of that situation lies in the fact that the NT was tampered with by biased redactors. There is really no way around that one. Sometimes it can be proven, sometimes it can't.

 

[daq]

Unfortunately, so does this MJ forum. That has always bothered me too. I'm one of those weirdos that believes the Tanakh should be the foundation for all Biblical doctrines. If something in the NT is directly opposed to the teachings of the Tanakh it should be tossed. Period. And there are indeed instances of that very thing. Some attempt to explain it away by claiming it is just a "misunderstanding of Sha'ul" or something to that effect [I was in that group at one time] but that is not always the case. I think the heart of that situation lies in the fact that the NT was tampered with by biased redactors. There is really no way around that one. Sometimes it can be proven, sometimes it can't.

I think the heart of that situation lies in pride and the vail over the heart and mind cannot be removed until the heart truly turns in repentance. Wheat is the Word, (Jeremiah 23:28) but oh how painful it was when I discovered my thesauros-treasury was full of tares which were flourishing in the fields of my mind. The only solution was to burn it all down, and I did not go with it willingly, and there was indeed wailing and gnashing of teeth. Now I understand why farmers burn their fields.

 

[Avodat]

Unfortunately, so does this MJ forum. That has always bothered me too. I'm one of those weirdos that believes the Tanakh should be the foundation for all Biblical doctrines. If something in the NT is directly opposed to the teachings of the Tanakh it should be tossed. Period. And there are indeed instances of that very thing. Some attempt to explain it away by claiming it is just a "misunderstanding of Sha'ul" or something to that effect [I was in that group at one time] but that is not always the case. I think the heart of that situation lies in the fact that the NT was tampered with by biased redactors. There is really no way around that one. Sometimes it can be proven, sometimes it can't.

a) I have tried to say on another thread that the purpose of MJ is to be a catylist to bring both Christianity and Judaism to a point of meeting - that will, necessarily, involve lots of debate along the lines you have said (and some in the opposite direction, too). But it needs to be done with an understanding of where each is coming from, and wanting to go to. It needs to find level-headed calm and collected people meeting together to share issues and finding places where we can agree, before dealing with areas where we have disagreement.

b) Where I live, I am working to get Rabbis and Christian congregation leaders to meet and get to know each other informally so that, over time, we can feel able to talk through areas that raise difficulties, one with the other, without appearing to be a threat to each other.

c) I've just spent a week in Isarel and did wonderfully well speaking to Rabbis, sharing in a Shabbat meal with a time of teaching afterwards (bi-lingual). I got on exceptionally well with the Jews around me at the table and the Rabbi made us very welcome in his home. I went to a prayer time where there were a number of orthodox Jews (the women being separated into another room, of course). I also spoke to a number of other Jews, making it clear that I am Christian minister, and found them to be very, very polite, interested in my (MJ) views (after I assured them I was not an MJ bigot). I had a chat with a guy in Mea Shearim - explained I was a Christian minister (it was actually he that started the conversation) and that I was visiting, not evangelising, and we had a very long chat together. In fact, he was the only one that mentioned Yeshua by name, and not in any derogatory sense, and I couldn't stop him talking! He had wanted to know why I was walking in that area - so I told him the truth, I was curious. I invited him to call me when he next gets to England and gave him my card.

d) It is possible for Christians and Jews to talk sensibly and to begin to remove the bricks from the wall that separates us, provided we do it sensibly, without causing offence, leaving the most contentious bricks to await further discussion. I have found in my life that sincere discussions between level-headed Jews and Christians, whether at leadership level or not, can bear much fruit, and not just in personal relationships. I buy my books from a home book store run by an orthodox Jew (Chabad), near where I live - they treat me well and are exceptionally helpful and I respect their beliefs, always asking if I can enter the house to look at the books or to buy something else - and I am always invited back!

I find none of the problems we have on here in my relationship with Jews.

 

[MadMaxData]

Wow, I really respect the work your doing, Avodat. If only we all took Tikkun Olam as seriously as you do, we would hasten the Mashiakh's glorious return! Keep up the great work, Bro! I have a new-found respect for you, that's for sure.

By the way, did you notice that I didn't quote your lengthy post?

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

I find none of the problems we have on here in my relationship with Jews.

Yes that doesn't surprise me especially with the Chabad. However the problems that you hear about are with some not all Messianic Jews in Messianic Judaism.

 

[Avodat]

Yes that doesn't surprise me especially with the Chabad. However the problems that you hear about are with some not all Messianic Jews in Messianic Judaism.

I was thinking of Messianic Gentiles, as well, not just Jews!

 

[Avodat]

Wow, I really respect the work your doing, Avodat. If only we all took Tikkun Olam as seriously as you do, we would hasten the Mashiakh's glorious return! Keep up the great work, Bro! I have a new-found respect for you, that's for sure.

By the way, did you notice that I didn't quote your lengthy post?

Thanks - it is the way I have worked for a couple of decades now. No great fuss, I just get on with the call I have in educating Christians about their whole Bible and countering the rubbish they, in turn, often teach about Jews, with whom I have never had a bad relationship. My daughter now teaches Religious Studies and, having learned from me, she just loves teaching about Judaism (that is why I paid for her to go to Israel with me) - my love for these things has rubbed off on my daughters, thankfully. For me, it is a way of life, not a 'job'.

Yes, I did notice the absence of a whole page quote. Sometimes, though, it can be a problem if a poster doesn't use the 'quote' button and is obviously addressing an individual, but no one knows whom, except the poster

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Thanks - it is the way I have worked for a couple of decades now. No great fuss, I just get on with the call I have in educating Christians about their whole Bible and countering the rubbish they, in turn, often teach about Jews, with whom I have never had a bad relationship. My daughter now teaches Religious Studies and, having learned from me, she just loves teaching about Judaism (that is why I paid for her to go to Israel with me) - my love for these things has rubbed off on my daughters, thankfully. For me, it is a way of life, not a 'job'.

Yes, I did notice the absence of a whole page quote. Sometimes, though, it can be a problem if a poster doesn't use the 'quote' button and is obviously addressing an individual, but no one knows whom, except the poster

If I may ask what's your( I don't want to say denomination). Are you a Christian that has and practices Jewish roots of Christianity? Such as Shabbat, High Holidays to name a few with Messianic significance of course. Or are you free lance per se since you teach?

Friends of Israel isn't far from me and I know some people there that teach Jewish roots of Christianity, the do Seders and such with Messianic significance.

 

[Avodat]

I used to be an Academic Tutor as part of the Associate Faculty of a Bible College. I am a self employed minister working in a denominatonal Church in England teaching (not preaching) the whole Book from a Judaistic viewpoint, week by week, and in Bible Studies and pastoral care. I belong to a couple of organisations (here and in Israel) that work across religious divides to break down the wall between Jews and Gentiles by confronting anti-Judaism / anti-semitsim / Replacement Theology / divestment etc., etc.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

I used to be an Academic Tutor as part of the Associate Faculty of a Bible College. I am a self employed minister working in a denominatonal Church in England teaching (not preaching) the whole Book from a Judaistic viewpoint, week by week, and in Bible Studies and pastoral care. I belong to a couple of organisations (here and in Israel) that work across religious divides to break down the wall between Jews and Gentiles by confronting anti-Judaism / anti-semitsim / Replacement Theology / divestment etc., etc.

How is teaching the whole bible from a Judaic point of view being accepted? And does the church you teach this 'practice' anything related to let's say the feast days or if not do you see a willingness? Or that's not the focus?

 

[Avodat]

How is teaching the whole bible from a Judaic point of view being accepted? And does the church you teach this 'practice' anything related to let's say the feast days or if not do you see a willingness? Or that's not the focus?

There has been some resistance but I was appointed to teach the Word - it was never made clear that they didn't want ALL of it! They have got used to me explaining significant Hebrew words, manners & customs in teaching Scripture. Bible Studies have come more alive, now, because it gives opportunity for more detail in my teaching. They are becoming more thirsty, gradually.

No, they are a long way from keeping moedim! But I do teach on them in the process of the year. I have already attacked Christmas, twice, and it is beginning to sink home now, with a number of people nodding in agreement when I teach nearer that time, though a few people are quite anti-semitic. I do make a stand on a number of things (they no longer contact me, for instance, unless it is truly important, on Shabbat) but it has to be by evolution, not revolution - I want them to begin to realise for themselves that things have to change and it is working, gradually.

Perhaps I should add that, until I arrived, they had only had newly ordained ministers who would not have been willing to stand against the trends, for obvious reasons. I've been preaching and teaching for 30+ years so I don't have the same concerns.

 

[AbbaLove]

Where I live, I am working to get Rabbis and Christian congregation leaders to meet and get to know each other informally so that, over time, we can feel able to talk through areas that raise difficulties, one with the other, without appearing to be a threat to each other.

I got on exceptionally well with the Jews around me at the table and the Rabbi made us very welcome in his home. I went to a prayer time where there were a number of orthodox Jews (the women being separated into another room, of course). I also spoke to a number of other Jews, making it clear that I am Christian minister, and found them to be very, very polite, interested in my (MJ) views (after I assured them I was not an MJ bigot). I had a chat with a guy in Mea Shearim - explained I was a Christian minister (it was actually he that started the conversation) and that I was visiting, not evangelising, and we had a very long chat together.

I find none of the problems we have on here in my relationship with Jews.

If you participated in this forum wearing a Christian faith icon instead of a MJ faith icon WHY wouldn’t you be just as well received (or even more so) on this forum in “relationship with Jews” as you were received by a number of Jews in Israel. But then you wouldn’t be able to participate in MJ Only threads.

It would be helpful on this MJ forum if you explain how you went about assuring them you were not a “MJ bigot”. Wouldn’t such a forthcoming explanation be most relevant to Jaded and corrupt, MJ Jewish and Gentile members as well as denominational Christians.

 

[Avodat]

If you participated in this forum wearing a Christian faith icon instead of a MJ faith icon WHY wouldn’t you be just as well received (or even more so) on this forum in “relationship with Jews” as you were received by a number of Jews in Israel. But then you wouldn’t be able to participate in MJ Only threads.

It would be helpful on this MJ forum if you explain how you went about assuring them you were not a “MJ bigot”. Wouldn’t such a forthcoming explanation be most relevant to Jaded and corrupt, MJ Jewish and Gentile members as well as denominational Christians.

I am not 'just' a Christian - I am a Messianic Gentile. If I changed my icon to Christian I would not be allowed on this thread other than to ask questions, and it would be dishonest of me, as well.

Many Jews dread the words 'Messianic Judaism' as it is seen as a means to the assimilation of Jews into the Church / Christianity - I simply assured the man that I was not there for any purpose other than to respect him and his people, and not to teach anything. He obviously felt that was a sufficient response and stayed chatting for ages. Had I said MJ he would not, I think, have stood chatting.

My last comment, on my last post that you quoted, may have been mis-understood - I was saying that there are more problems on here, in general, than I found when speaking to Jews in Israel about Yeshua (if read in the context of the rest of my post).

 

[yonah_mishael]

No, they are a long way from keeping moedim!

Just as a reference for the sake of correction. The word מוֹעֵד môʿēḏ (“mo’ed&#8221 takes its plural as מוֹעֲדִים môʿăḏîm (“mo’adim&#8221 rather than what we often see on this forum, “moedim.” Change the e to a to be correct.

The only instance of this form in the Bible is found in Daniel 12.7:

וָֽאֶשְׁמַ֞ע אֶת־הָאִ֣ישׁ ׀ לְב֣וּשׁ הַבַּדִּ֗ים אֲשֶׁ֣ר מִמַּעַל֮ לְמֵימֵ֣י הַיְאֹר֒ וַיָּ֨רֶם יְמִינ֤וֹ וּשְׂמֹאלוֹ֙ אֶל־הַשָּׁמַ֔יִם וַיִּשָּׁבַ֖ע בְּחֵ֣י הָֽעוֹלָ֑ם כִּי֩ לְמוֹעֵ֨ד מֽוֹעֲדִ֜ים וָחֵ֗צִי וּכְכַלּ֛וֹת נַפֵּ֥ץ יַד־עַם־קֹ֖דֶשׁ תִּכְלֶ֥ינָה כָל־אֵֽלֶּה׃​

​

I don’t mean to be a stickler, but it’s the correct form. Everyone on this forum that I’ve seen use the term apparently follows the mistaken idea that you just add -îm to make a plural. There are other vocalic considerations when forming plurals, and in this case the long tsere (ē) reduces to a short hataf-patach (ă) as a result of the addition of the strong suffix.

Regards,
YM

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Wouldn't it be fair to say that Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity?

No.