The difference between God and Thor & Zeus

Maria Sweet

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.
 

Kaon

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

All the religions seem similar because the world has been worshiping the same couple hundred gods under different names for thousands of years. It all started with Nimrod and Semiramis; from there, you get your typical sun/son god motifs: usually in the form of a moon goddess, and two male sun gods.

Thor and Odin
Cronus and Zeus

Those are just two of the newer motifs of sun/son god and moon goddess worship applied to civilizations. The reason why the religions seem so similar/the same is because religion has always worshiped a beast system, or a mutated form of the truth. The world has never stopped being deceived by these two hundred or so entities that set themselves, and their offspring up as gods on this plane of existence.


That is the best that can be done; to understand further one would have to accept things that are counted as gnostic.
 
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HTacianas

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

You cannot "convince" a person that God exists. And those types of internet arguments nearly never end well. It's best to avoid them altogether.

We are told to be on the defensive against people like that:

1 Pete 3:15 ...always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear

That doesn't mean we should go on the offense against them.
 
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fat wee robin

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All the religions seem similar because the world has been worshiping the same couple hundred gods under different names for thousands of years. It all started with Nimrod and Semiramis; from there, you get your typical sun/son god motifs: usually in the form of a moon goddess, and two male sun gods.

Thor and Odin
Cronus and Zeus

Those are just two of the newer motifs of sun/son god and moon goddess worship applied to civilizations. The reason why the religions seem so similar/the same is because religion has always worshiped a beast system, or a mutated form of the truth. The world has never stopped being deceived by these two hundred or so entities that set themselves, and their offspring up as gods on this plane of existence.


That is the best that can be done; to understand further one would have to accept things that are counted as gnostic.
Yes the difficulty lies in the somewhat limited understanding of the what is in the bible which is taught in classical christianity .this later was meant only for a limited time as humanity has grown in number and knowledge of the world as it is .
 
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Doug Melven

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.
Convincing an atheist that God exists is pointless as they already know God exists, they just deny it.
Romans 1:19-20 says that everybody knows He exists.
If atheists were right, they could just get on with there life. Instead they have to form organizations and participate in arguments to make us see what they think they know.
 
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fat wee robin

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.
Humanity has been on the planet for many many thousands of years ,but living at a low level most of the time and even when they were able to rise up and and create a more sophicated way of life ,it would fall very quickly .
Since even when he is primitive humanity senses there is something higher than himself 'above' and so he makes up a name and prays to this god of his imagination ,but man continues to die young ,his life is chasing animals to survive and he makes little or no advance because he is not in touch with the TRUE Creator . All the other gods are nothing but 'things ' without any life ,whether is is stones ,animals or planets .

Before Jesus came some of the Israelites had begun to 'hear' the voice of GOD the Creator ,as God was preparing them for His Coming 2000 years ago . Since He has come, humanity has grown from approx 25,000,000 to over 7,000,000,000,000 ,and many of the promises made by Jesus to save us, have happened .

The real problem lies with many christians, not always with unbelievers .The Roman Catholic Church is to some extent caught in a bind ,as the more brilliant among the clergy know that they cannot tell the truth as they know it to be, because many are just beginning their Journey, whereas many are finishing theirs .
It is like having nursery school in the same building as the university, and it is getting to be a great problem , as the nursery level is in control .
 
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paul1149

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He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god.
Most of the mythological gods were projections of man's fallen nature. Thus they were immoral, got drunk and did other highly questionable things. The God of the Bible is morally perfect. True, some of the things in the OT can be hard to understand until you get familiar with the Bible and the larger context of what was going on. But Abraham implies that "the God of the whole Earth will do what is right", and Hebrews 11.6 tells us the faith that pleases God believes He is good. If that weren't enough, we have the astounding truth that God himself became man and gave Himself to pay for our sins, to reconcile fallen man back to Himself and to restore our heavenly estate. "Greater love has no man..."
 
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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

The particular objection is easily answered. Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god fails the worldview test. In other words, the atheist fails to make any distinction between deities, it is a logical fallacy called "equivocation".

Important basic questions to a worldview:

Basic Questions
If a worldview can be expressed in propositions, what might they be? Essentially, they are our basic, rock-bottom answers to the following questions:
  1. What is prime reality—the really real? To this we might answer: God, or the gods, or the material cosmos. Our answer here is the most fundamental. It sets the boundaries for the answers that can consistently be given to the other six questions. This will become clear as we move from worldview to worldview in the chapters that follow.
  2. What is the nature of external reality, that is, the world around us?Here our answers point to whether we see the world as created or autonomous, as chaotic or orderly, as matter or spirit; or whether we emphasize our subjective, personal relationship to the world or its objectivity apart from us.
  3. What is a human being? To this we might answer: a highly complex machine, a sleeping god, a person made in theimage of God, a naked ape.
  4. What happens to a person at death? Here we might reply: personal extinction, or transformation to a higher state, or reincarnation, or departure to a shadowy existence on "the other side."
  5. Why is it possible to know anything at all? Sample answers include the idea that we are made in the image of an all-knowing God or that consciousness and rationality developed under the contingencies of survival in a long process of evolution.
  6. How do we know what is right and wrong? Again, perhaps we are made in the image of a God whose character is good, or right and wrong are determined by human choice alone or what feels good, or the notions simply developed under an impetus toward cultural or physical survival.
  7. What is the meaning of human history? To this we might answer: to realize the purposes of God or the gods, to make a paradise on earth, to prepare a people for a life in community with a loving and holy God, and so forth.
  8. What personal, life-orienting core commitments are consistent with this worldview?
James Sire - source

Finally, the definition of "God" excludes any "god" that is less than God by definition. Should note, crucial to this point is this point "logically possible", people come up logical absurdities such as the question; can god create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it? all day long, which are smoke screens, based on logical impossibilities even pitting the attributes of God against one another.
 
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Bobber

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I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

Well you did what God tells believers to do. Share what you have known and experienced with your relationship with God. Of course it might seem it fell on deaf ears but who knows. In a person's quite time they reflect back at some of these things they've heard from others it may not even be until a time of personal difficulty and they call out to God. They may recall what you've said and it might inspire them to do so.
 
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Doug Melven

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I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony.
There is no better argument than the personal experience testimony.
How can someone deny your personal experience of God? It was your experience
 
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Kenny'sID

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

Tell him to read the bible that tells of God, and what he is about, then the stories that tell of the other Gods, and ask him to decide for himself. IMO there's no comparison and no question to which one would be real and which one not.

I often go back to creation in order to convince. What sound more viable, a creation as we see even men do all the time, or something from nothing over time for no reason that we have never seen creating a perfect eco system and all that is in it.?
 
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Erik Nelson

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Heaven had a "Divine Council" of which YHWH was the Supreme.

National deities, like Zeus of the Greeks or Ahura Mazda of the Persians, are (according to the Bible) something like "Arch-Angel ranked" "Principalities & Powers", and YHWH God assigned the various tribes of humans to their control when YHWH scattered humanity from the Tower of Babel incident (Gen 11).

YHWH then chose Abraham has His own personal nation, and from Abraham raised up Israel, YHWH's own personal nation. Whilst YHWH focused on them, the other nations of gentiles were governed by their national deities. However, since Christ, YHWH has been once again asserting more direct control over humanity, as more and more people come to Christ, and develop a more personal relationship with the Highest God and God "judges" and "de-activates" (so to speak) the temporary national Principalities & Powers.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.
Apart from the fact that I don't think the adherents of Greek religion believed in the Pantheon as literal deities in the same way we believe in the God of our faith to be a literal deity, my sense of Zeus, for example, is that if he was a real god... well, this world as we know it isn't exactly the type of world he would have created. That's purely an opinion on my part but I stand by it. This real world has an orderliness to it that I don't think the figures of the Pantheon would have necessarily aimed for.

Committed atheists may or may not be reachable. Those who are reachable will probably have different requirements before they could even consider becoming agnostics, much less theists, much less Christians. That said, I find that philosophical argumentation can be helpful. As you have discovered, one's personal experience has no truck with most of the more vocal atheists.

Another challenge is that discussions based upon historical data are also a challenge because they are rife with the possibility for disagreement over technical issues (authorship, historicity, reliability, etc).

Thus, I have found that engaging atheists with philosophical issues regarding the faith might be more productive. In the case of the Greek Pantheon, you could ask your counterpart in the discussion to identify the key identifying elements of Zeus, Thor and any other figure of Greek myth he is interested in. Then you could compare and contrast those characteristics over and against God's own identity.

To be forewarned is to be forearmed: Your counterpart in the discussion probably has a point. There probably will be legitimate areas where God's characteristics are likely to overlap with the Pantheon. But, far from being an interpretive challenge for you, I would argue that any similarity God has to the Pantheon which your atheist counterpart might mention is likely to be (A) slight and (B) evidence that mankind has certain key expectations of what god (in a vague, general sense) is supposed to be like. Ancient Greek pagans and modern Christians both come to the table with a specific set of assumptions concerning higher powers, some of which overlap with each other and all of which suggest that man is primed to believe in higher powers on a natural basis.

It is therefore logical to assume that a belief in some type of higher power is a natural condition of the human race and, further, that this higher power (however one wishes to identify it) has a range of behaviors and characteristics which even people who otherwise disagree vehemently with each other still acknowledge to be part of both of their respective belief systems.
 
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Maria Sweet

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Thank you everyone for your kind tips.

For some reason, I suspect that it's not that atheists are skeptical of God's existence; it's that they don't want to repent and resent the idea of being accountable for their sins to a higher power. What do all of you think?
 
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FireDragon76

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Some of the more philosophically-oriented Greeks thought of Zeus sort of the same way Christians think of God. Indeed, Paul on Mars Hill quotes from Greek literature in this context, "we are his children". (Acts 17:21).

Thank you everyone for your kind tips.

For some reason, I suspect that it's not that atheists are skeptical of God's existence; it's that they don't want to repent and resent the idea of being accountable for their sins to a higher power. What do all of you think?

I doubt that's the only motivation, though Dostoyevsky seems to suggest so in Brother's Karamazov.
 
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Earlier I was engaged in a religious discussion with an atheist on the YouTube comments section. He was asserting that God is no different than Thor, Zeus, or any other mythological god. Then he asked me to prove otherwise. I tried explaining to him that my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testify to the existence of God, but he wasn’t buying it. I wished I had better arguments than the personal experience testimony. What else could I have said to convince him that our heavenly father exists? Let me know.

Ask them how many anti-Zeus, anti-Thor rallies they attend. Ask them how much time they spend debating the existence of Zeus, Thor as real beings/persons with others (expect to be lied to, atheists cannot help themselves).

Ask them when they curse and swear and blaspheme, whose name do they use, Jesus Christ, or Thor, Zeus, another? Ask them if they have ever taken the name of Jesus Christ as a swear word.

Ask them what percentage of time they spend of any time at all debating the hindu gods compared to that of JEHOVAH Elohiym (LORD God) of the Bible?

All around them, in Creation itself, speaks of God as the Creator. They do not need evidence, as it is at all times, all around them. They need to see and hear and believe, and they have to remove their hands from both, and allow truth to no longer be held under by themselves. You could point to the heavens, the earth, the greatest, to the smallest, as the evidence was already provided by God.

God even gave evidence in the resurrection, which to the "Greeks" (minded) is foolishness. Begin with Creation.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Thank you everyone for your kind tips.

For some reason, I suspect that it's not that atheists are skeptical of God's existence; it's that they don't want to repent and resent the idea of being accountable for their sins to a higher power. What do all of you think?
There could be some truth to that. But that issue is, I think, a matter for the Holy Spirit to deal with.

In the end, all we can do is share our faith with non-believers and hope for the best. This type of evangelism isn't necessarily for everybody. Take me, for example. I have greater success sharing Catholicism with Protestants. Reaching committed atheists isn't my specialty.
 
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Thank you everyone for your kind tips.

For some reason, I suspect that it's not that atheists are skeptical of God's existence; it's that they don't want to repent and resent the idea of being accountable for their sins to a higher power. What do all of you think?

I think you are correct in that the inherited from Adam unregenerate nature of man is enmity aginst God, the flesh wants nothing to do with God, the first reaction of the flesh is to hide from God, similar to the garden situation. From there it's the blame game, the woman ate and she did not die, she gave it to me....but they both died inside to God.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Some of the more philosophically-oriented Greeks thought of Zeus sort of the same way Christians think of God. Indeed, Paul on Mars Hill quotes from Greek literature in this context, "we are his children". (Acts 17:21).
You find a lot of this type of thinking in Varro, who wrote extensively on Greco-Roman gods. Augustine adresses it in the first half of City of God, and does a good job exposing the inconsistencies. It wasn't so much the Greek gods as we know them, but an intellectualisation of a Summus Deus, a higher God, often still called Zeus or Jupiter though. This was closer to a Neoplatonic principle.

Jove or Iovis of the Romans, actually often implies this 'Greatest Jupiter'. I myself find it interesting that this term seems phonetically similar to certain reconstructions of how the Tetragrammaton YHWH should be pronounced.

I doubt that's the only motivation, though Dostoyevsky seems to suggest so in Brother's Karamazov.
This is a misrepresentation. Ivan calls himself an atheist earlier, but disavows the term later in the work. He represents man rebelling, a Mutiny, against the hard ways of God and the saints. This is reflected in his story of the Grand Inquisitor that Ivan tells, which is more about rejecting God since the freedom He represents is too much of a burden. So this does not just refer to an Atheist, although it still might, but can even be the implicit attitude of a supposed man of God (the Grand Inquisitor for instance recognising Christ).

Actual Atheists in Dostoyevsky are Ippolit in The Idiot, or perhaps Svidrigailov in Crime and Punishment. If anyone, Dostoyevsky is aware of ambiguity regarding human beliefs - even Elder Zosima stinks when he dies.
 
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The principle of I AM or the extended version of I AM that I AM, is unparalleled in other religious thought. This is a statement of being, self-existence, of God as the ground of existence. Something only exists by differentiation to something else, but God is the I AM.

No other god conception is this early or this clear as an absolute principle of the Divine. The very name of YHWH implies this, Being or He that is. Coupled to this the Incarnation, and there are really no other such specific claims, of Love by the Deity to the point of death. Christianity requires Faith, but there really are no other religions even close to it - even more akin Judaism has nothing approaching the Incarnation as an act of Salvation.
 
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