THE COVENANTS AND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE YOU CONFUSED?

[LoveGodsWord]

"Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. " (Romans 4:4-5)

EPHESIANS 2:8-9
[8], For by GRACE are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What is grace for?

ROMANS 1:5 [5] By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

JAMES 2:18-20
[18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Nope we don't want dead faith.

 

[bekkilyn]

EPHESIANS 2:8-9
[8], For by GRACE are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What is grace for?

ROMANS 1:5 [5] By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

JAMES 2:18-20
[18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Nope we don't want dead faith.

"Listen! I, Paul, am telling you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. Once again I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire law. You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love." (Galatians 5:2-6)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Listen! I, Paul, am telling you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. Once again I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire law. You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love." (Galatians 5:2-6)

EXODUS 24:7 [7], 7, And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

Do you think CIRCUMCISION is one of the 10 commandments or is it a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT pointing to a new heart in the NEW COVENANT?

 

[bekkilyn]

EXODUS 24:7 [7], 7, And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

Do you think CIRCUMCISION is one of the 10 commandments or is it a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT pointing to a new heart in the NEW COVENANT?

"Tell me, you who desire to be subject to the law, will you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman. One, the child of the slave, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:21-26)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Tell me, you who desire to be subject to the law, will you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman. One, the child of the slave, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:21-26)

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

If you are under the law are you guilty of breaking it? How can you know what the NEW COVENANT is if you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was?

 

[bekkilyn]

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

If you are under the law are you guilty of breaking it? How can you know what the NEW COVENANT is if you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was?

"Then Moses went up to God; the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the Israelites: You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites.”" (Exodus 19:3-6)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Then Moses went up to God; the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the Israelites: You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the Israelites.”" (Exodus 19:3-6)

ROMANS 9:6-8
[6], Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7], Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called.
[8], That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's Israel *ROMANS 11:13-27.

 

[bekkilyn]

ROMANS 9:6-8
[6], Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7], Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called.
[8], That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's Israel *ROMANS 11:13-27.

"Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”' (Acts 15:10-11)

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<LGW>Hello brother Der Alter, nice to see you again.
What do you think it means when you read ROMANS 7 with 1 JOHN 1:8 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4? How can we sin not as directed by John in 1 JOHN 2:1? What does Jesus mean when he heals someone and says "Go and sin no more *JOHN 8:11 or that those who do not keep God's commandments do not know him or love him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15? If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27? Are we saved in sin to continue in it or from sin and it's power over us as we abide in Christ and continue in his Word *JOHN 8:31-36?<end>

end

You are ignoring what John said which I emphasized. John included himself when he when wrote 1 Jn 1:8 and 1 Jn 2:1

1 John 1:8
(8) If we [including John] claim to be without sin, we [including John] deceive ourselves [including John] and the truth is not in us.[including John]
1 John 2:1
(1) My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we [including John] have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One​

Note John also is speaking in the present tense; "we claim,"""we deceive,"will not sin." Not past tense, "we claimed,""we deceived,""we did not sin," We are imperfect as long as we are in this body.

1 John 1:10
(10) If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.​

The word translated as "have not sinned" is not a past tense it is a perfect, active, indicative which includes past and present.

1 John 5:18
(18) We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.​

==========
1 John 5:18 Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Lineal present active indicative, “does not keep on sinning,” as he has already shown in 1Jo_3:4-10. Robertson, Word Pictures in the NT

 

[LoveGodsWord]

<LGW>Hello brother Der Alter, nice to see you again.
What do you think it means when you read ROMANS 7 with 1 JOHN 1:8 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4? How can we sin not as directed by John in 1 JOHN 2:1? What does Jesus mean when he heals someone and says "Go and sin no more *JOHN 8:11 or that those who do not keep God's commandments do not know him or love him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15? If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27? Are we saved in sin to continue in it or from sin and it's power over us as we abide in Christ and continue in his Word *JOHN 8:31-36?<end>
You are ignoring what John said which I emphasized. John included himself when he when wrote 1 Jn 1:8 and 1 Jn 2:1

1 John 1:8
(8) If we [including John] claim to be without sin, we [including John] deceive ourselves [including John] and the truth is not in us.[including John]
1 John 2:1
(1) My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we [including John] have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One​

Note John also is speaking in the present tense; "we claim,"""we deceive,"will not sin." Not past tense, "we claimed,""we deceived,""we did not sin," We are imperfect as long as we are in this body.

1 John 1:10
(10) If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.​

The word translated as "have not sinned" is not a past tense it is a perfect, active, indicative which includes past and present.

1 John 5:18
(18) We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.​

==========
1 John 5:18 Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Lineal present active indicative, “does not keep on sinning,” as he has already shown in 1Jo_3:4-10. Robertson, Word Pictures in the NT

Hello brother Der Alter, thanks for your reply.

NO I did not ignore what John said in 1 JOHN 1:8. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour. There is NONE righteous no not one without Jesus *ROMANS 3:10. There is no argument there as you are making an argument above no one is talking about and we are in agreement about. You have ignored the scriptures and questions provided to you however which were...

What do you think it means when you read ROMANS 7 with 1 JOHN 1:8 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4? How can we sin not as directed by John in 1 JOHN 2:1? What does Jesus mean when he heals someone and says "Go and sin no more *JOHN 8:11 or that those who do not keep God's commandments do not know him or love him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15? If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27? Are we saved in sin to continue in it or from sin and it's power over us as we abide in Christ and continue in his Word *JOHN 8:31-36?

These were the questions for answering not are we sinners in need of a Saviour.

Hope this is more specific in relation to the questions being asked.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”' (Acts 15:10-11)

Indeed CIRCUMCISION was never a test...

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Grace is for obedience not a license to sin...

ROMANS 1:5
[5], By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

 

[bekkilyn]

Indeed CIRCUMCISION was never a test...

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Grace is for obedience not a license to sin...

ROMANS 1:5
[5], By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

"For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. " (Hebrews 7:12)

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<LGW>Hello brother Der Alter, thanks for your reply.
NO I did not ignore what John said in 1 JOHN 1:8. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour. There is NONE righteous no not one without Jesus *ROMANS 3:10. There is no argument there as you are making an argument above no one is talking about and we are in agreement about. You have ignored the scriptures and questions provided to you however which were...<end>

end

begin

<LGW>What do you think it means when you read ROMANS 7 with 1 JOHN 1:8 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4? How can we sin not as directed by John in 1 JOHN 2:1? What does Jesus mean when he heals someone and says "Go and sin no more *JOHN 8:11<end>

end

I addressed Rom 7 and 1 Jn 1:8 and 1 Jn 2:1-4. If you don't like or disagree with my answer then please demonstrate that it is incorrect from scripture? Please go back to my previous post and look for the words "Lineal present active indicative," What do you think it means when Jesus "heals someone and says 'Go and sin no more?'" Do you think Jesus is saying "Go and you cannot sin anymore?" That is a command that the woman was able to obey or not obey.

begin

<LGW>or that those who do not keep God's commandments do not know him or love him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15? If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27? Are we saved in sin to continue in it or from sin and it's power over us as we abide in Christ and continue in his Word *JOHN 8:31-36?
These were the questions for answering not are we sinners in need of a Saviour.
Hope this is more specific in relation to the questions being asked.<end>

end

"If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God?" There is a big difference between continuing in known unrepentant sin and an occasional sin, followed by repentance and forgiveness.

NIV 1 John 2:1
(1) My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we [including John] have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
1 John 1:9 If we [including John] confess our sins,[including John] he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,[including John] and to cleanse us [including John] from all unrighteousness.​

In 2:1 the word translated "you will not sin" should be translated "you might not sin" it is a second aorist, active, subjunctive. "The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and the action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."

 

[Der Alte]

As I have previously been told, speaking in the present tense of the past, was an accepted way in those days. There is a world of difference between the person being spoken of in rom7:14-24 and sinless perfection(which no Christian achieves n this earth)...

Can you quote a Greek grammar which supports your claim "speaking in the present tense of the past?" I have a couple of grammars;, Martin, Smythe, Robertson, Wallace and I can't find it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I addressed Rom 7 and 1 Jn 1:8 and 1 Jn 2:1-4. If you don't like or disagree with my answer then please demonstrate that it is incorrect from scripture?

Hi brother Der Alter, no you didn't answer the questions and the scriptures provided to you. You simply started talking about something totally unrelated trying to make an argument that we both agree on and that is that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. There is no argument there as you are making an argument above no one is talking about and we are in agreement about. You ignored the scriptures and questions provided to you however which were...

What do you think it means when you read ROMANS 7 with 1 JOHN 1:8 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4? How can we sin not as directed by John in 1 JOHN 2:1? What does Jesus mean when he heals someone and says "Go and sin no more *JOHN 8:11 or that those who do not keep God's commandments do not know him or love him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15? If we continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin when God's WORD tells us not to, are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27? Are we saved in sin to continue in it or from sin and it's power over us as we abide in Christ and continue in his Word *JOHN 8:31-36?

These were the questions for answering not are we sinners in need of a Saviour. If you believe you have answered these question please provide the link. I did not see any answers in your posts.

There is a big difference between continuing in known unrepentant sin and an occasional sin, followed by repentance and forgiveness.

NIV 1 John 2:1
(1) My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we [including John] have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
1 John 1:9 If we [including John] confess our sins,[including John] he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,[including John] and to cleanse us [including John] from all unrighteousness.​

In 2:1 the word translated "you will not sin" should be translated "you might not sin" it is a second aorist, active, subjunctive. "The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and the action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."

1 JOHN 2:1 is in the active negative present tense injunction..

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS

New International Version
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

New Living Translation
My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

English Standard Version
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Berean Study Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Berean Literal Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you might not sin. And if anyone should sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

New American Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

King James Bible
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Christian Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the righteous one.

Contemporary English Version
My children, I am writing this so you won't sin. But if you do sin, Jesus Christ always does the right thing, and he will speak to the Father for us.

Good News Translation
I am writing this to you, my children, so that you will not sin; but if anyone does sin, we have someone who pleads with the Father on our behalf--Jesus Christ, the righteous one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

International Standard Version
My little children, I'm writing these things to you so that you might not sin. Yet if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus, the Messiah, one who is righteous.

NET Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One,

New Heart English Bible
My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Children, I write these things to you so that you will not sin, and if a person will sin, we have “The Redeemer of the accursed” with The Father - Yeshua The Messiah, The Righteous One.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
My dear children, I'm writing this to you so that you will not sin. Yet, if anyone does sin, we have Jesus Christ, who has God's full approval. He speaks on our behalf when we come into the presence of the Father.

New American Standard 1977
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Jubilee Bible 2000
My little children, I write these things unto you, that ye sin not; and if anyone has sinned, we have an Advocate before the Father, Jesus, the righteous Christ;

King James 2000 Bible
My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

American King James Version
My little children, these things write I to you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

American Standard Version
My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Douay-Rheims Bible
My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just:

Darby Bible Translation
My children, these things I write to you in order that ye may not sin; and if any one sin, we have a patron with the Father, Jesus Christ [the] righteous;

English Revised Version
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Webster's Bible Translation
My little children, these things I write to you, that ye sin not. And if any man sinneth, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Weymouth New Testament
Dear children, I write thus to you in order that you may not sin. If any one sins, we have an Advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the righteous;

World English Bible
My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

Young's Literal Translation
My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one.

So Nope this is the correct translation as the PARALLEL scriptures are all in agreement. Nothing maybe you will not sin. It is a present tense negative injuction "NOT TO SIN" and has been translated that way for a reason. They are parallel to the other scriptures provided earlier. Thats why the questions and scriptures were provided earlier.

We are saved from Sin not saved to continue to sin and break God's Commandments. All those who knowingly break God's Commandments will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. " (Hebrews 7:12)

HEBREWS 7:12 CHANGE OF LAW

WHAT is the CONTEXT of HEBREWS 7 and what laws is it talking about? Is HEBREWS 7 talking about the 10 commandments or the MOSAIC BOOK of the laws for remission of sins from the Levitical Priesthood *DEUTERONOMY 29:21?

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 7:1-28
[1], For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2], To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[3], Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like to the Son of God; stays a priest continually.
[4], Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5], And truly they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brothers, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

NOTE: In the earthly Sanctuary only those from the tribe of Levi could be Priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah also note that the context of the chapter now is the Priesthood and the king and Priest in the days of Abraham named Melchisedec.

[6], But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7], And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8], And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
[9], And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
[10], For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[11], If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

NOTE: Topic is on the Levitical Priesthood the law we are talking about are the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23. The Priesthood was to be only for the tribe of Levi under the OLD COVENANT.

[12], For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[13], For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14], For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
[15], And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there rises another priest,

NOTE: Jesus from the tribe of Judah is now our great high Priest from the order of Melchisedec. No more animal sacrifices.

[16], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[17], For he testifies, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[18], For there is truly a cancellation of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[19], For the law made nothing perfect [MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW *2 KINGS 23:3], but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw near to God.
[20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
[21], For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
[22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23], And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24], But this man, because he continues ever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
[25], Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
[26], For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
[27], Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28], For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for ever more.

NOTE: v28 does the 10 commandments make men high Priests or does the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23?

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 7:12 in relation to the change of laws is talking about the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW not the 10 commandments and a change in the Priesthood and the laws that accompany it from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 24:7. Not the 10 commandments. Can you see your mistake here? Is there anything you are specifically referring to in Galatians you wish to discuss?

Hope this helps

 

[bekkilyn]

HEBREWS 7:12 CHANGE OF LAW

WHAT is the CONTEXT of HEBREWS 7 and what laws is it talking about? Is HEBREWS 7 talking about the 10 commandments or the MOSAIC BOOK of the laws for remission of sins from the Levitical Priesthood *DEUTERONOMY 29:21?

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 7:1-28
[1], For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2], To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[3], Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like to the Son of God; stays a priest continually.
[4], Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5], And truly they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brothers, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

NOTE: In the earthly Sanctuary only those from the tribe of Levi could be Priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah also note that the context of the chapter now is the Priesthood and the king and Priest in the days of Abraham named Melchisedec.

[6], But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7], And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8], And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
[9], And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
[10], For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[11], If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

NOTE: Topic is on the Levitical Priesthood the law we are talking about are the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23. The Priesthood was to be only for the tribe of Levi under the OLD COVENANT.

[12], For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[13], For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14], For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
[15], And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there rises another priest,

NOTE: Jesus from the tribe of Judah is now our great high Priest from the order of Melchisedec. No more animal sacrifices.

[16], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[17], For he testifies, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[18], For there is truly a cancellation of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[19], For the law made nothing perfect [MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW *2 KINGS 23:3], but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw near to God.
[20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
[21], For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
[22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23], And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24], But this man, because he continues ever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
[25], Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
[26], For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
[27], Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28], For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for ever more.

NOTE: v28 does the 10 commandments make men high Priests or does the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23?

.............

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 7:12 in relation to the change of laws is talking about the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW not the 10 commandments and a change in the Priesthood and the laws that accompany it from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 24:7. Not the 10 commandments. Can you see your mistake here? Is there anything you are specifically referring to in Galatians you wish to discuss?

Hope this helps

"There is, on the one hand, the abrogation of an earlier commandment because it was weak and ineffectual (for the law made nothing perfect); there is, on the other hand, the introduction of a better hope, through which we approach God." (Hebrews 7:18-19)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"There is, on the one hand, the abrogation of an earlier commandment because it was weak and ineffectual (for the law made nothing perfect); there is, on the other hand, the introduction of a better hope, through which we approach God." (Hebrews 7:18-19)

CONTEXT shown in post # 136 linked, which are the laws of the Levitical Prieshood and Sanctuary service. No more animal sacrifices. Nothing to do with the 10 Commandments being abolished.

EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is was how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

HEBREWS 10:1-10
[1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshipers once purged should have had no more consciousness of sins.
[3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5], Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me:
[6], In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you have had no pleasure.
[7], Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;
[9], Then said he, Lo, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10], By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Yep no more animal sacrifices through Christs sacrifice and office as our greak high preist. God's 10 commandments still give a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSLAMS 119:172.

 

[bekkilyn]

CONTEXT shown in post # 136 linked, which are the laws of the Levitical Prieshood and Sanctuary service. No more animal sacrifices. Nothing to do with the 10 Commandments being abolished.

EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is was how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

HEBREWS 10:1-10
[1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshipers once purged should have had no more consciousness of sins.
[3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5], Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me:
[6], In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you have had no pleasure.
[7], Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;
[9], Then said he, Lo, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10], By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Yep no more animal sacrifices through Christs sacrifice and office as our greak high preist. God's 10 commandments still give a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSLAMS 119:172.

"Accordingly Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant." (Hebrews 7:22)

 

[daydreamer40]

Can you quote a Greek grammar which supports your claim "speaking in the present tense of the past?" I have a couple of grammars;, Martin, Smythe, Robertson, Wallace and I can't find it.

Not personally no, I leave such things to others. But I think you were given compelling evidence Paul the Christian was not being referred to. If you don't wish to accept it that's OK