Will we remember our sin?

[Jamdoc]

some scriptures that come to mind on this thought, which was triggered by someone saying they believe Jesus will bear His crucifixion scars for all eternity to remind us of the cost.

But when presented this statement, the first thing that came to mind was

Isaiah 65

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

a place of joy in the Lord and rejoicing, not guilt over the sin that Jesus had to die to atone for you.

furthermore, God promises He will forget our sins as a part of the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah 43

25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

So if God has promised to forget sin, when all is made new, why would we remember sin? What profit would it have? Rather it is dangerous. The first sin was .. gaining knowledge of evil, and thus we then choose to do evil. If we aren't thinking about evil and had no knowledge of evil, then we don't do it. Paul illustrates this:

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Part of how sin might not exist on the new earth is that we simply won't have memory of sin and sinful things just won't even come to mind. Why would you steal, God has promised to provide you with everything freely, stealing something you don't have but your neighbor has wouldn't come to mind unless you have memory of scarcity and a perceived need to have what you don't have. There'd be no need to remember a commandment not to steal, much less remember our past experiences with stealing, because the concept of stealing comes out of coveting and scarcity and a wicked heart that values self over others. All 3 of these things just won't exist, so stealing wouldn't even come into thought much less be done... unless you remind people of it.

Forgetting sin as God does, would ensure that we would not feel ashamed in His presence, which would prevent us from having joy or even feeling like we belonged there or it was like home.

That is something I have been meditating on recently is how would I ever feel at home on the New Earth, when I'm constantly reminded that I don't deserve to be there, don't belong there and am only there by grace, like charity, it wouldn't be home in that circumstance, it'd feel like a foster family, a refugee camp.
How it can be home is.. you don't remember your sins, and so all you know is a loving Father, and thus you do feel like you belong and you are at home.

 

[Qubit]

The Unsaved will be judged according to their works...

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Just thought I would point that out.

Also, the Law will be written in our Hearts, i.e. there would be a need to remember a commandment not to steal, etc.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Unsaved will be judged according to their works...

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Just thought I would point that out.

Also, the Law will be written in our Hearts, i.e. there would be a need to remember a commandment not to steal, etc.

we're talking about new heavens and new earth, IE final judgement is done, there is no more sin no more death no more judgement, it has all been done and the whole earth has passed away and been made new.
This is not a current thing, but a post final judgement thing.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I was thinking along the same lines sometime last year and put together some verses to ruminate upon.

The idea that we will be released from shame and guilt. God did this for the Jews in the Old Testament. So the concept has merit:

Isaiah 54:4
4. Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

And it is not just for us; He also by force of His own will and for His own purpose is able to "not remember" sins:

Isaiah 43:25
25. I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 44:22
22. I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Isaiah 43:25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Psalms 51:9-10
9. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Acts 3:19
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Micah 7:19
19. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Jer 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Psalms 103:
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Romans 4:7-8
7. Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Hebrews_8:
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Psalms 32:1
1. A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

1 John 1:9 KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1-2 KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Psalms 3:3 KJV
3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.

 

[Jamdoc]

If you have a grown son, doing well, perhaps in his 30's or 40's (or 20's) ....

do you recall and dwell on when he was 3 years old and spread jelly on the table ? When he was 4 years old and skinned his knee ?
A hundred other times , even if/when he blatantly disobeyed for a moment or a short time ?

Yet whether this all is (in the flesh) remembered or not, now on earth,

God Gives His Promise Otherwise, Forever and Ever, Without Change.

No, I don't have any kids.
But yes, we know God will forget our sins, my question is more.. will we?

You might not ever think about your son doing something wrong as a child, but you yourself probably remember things you did wrong as a kid and have regrets over those memories don't you? I do. I'm still embarrassed over a lie I told when I was 6 years old even though all other parties involved surely forgot about it by now and never think of it... but I do, and I still feel shame in it and regret.

God forgave your sins now, and has promised to forget them. But right now when you have memories of those sins that He forgave, do you feel like you'd be at home in His presence, do you feel like you'd belong?
I know I wouldn't.

 

[Jamdoc]

Can "someone" be trusted to even know the truth,
noting that the words "scar" and "scars" are not Revealed From Heaven ! (in Scripture)

It's not a dogmatic thing, it's a personal belief of that person, scripture doesn't say either way so.. it's something to consider and think about I suppose.
We know He had them after being resurrected, but John doesn't mention them in Revelation, but in Zechariah 12 the Jews look on Him whom they pierced, so it's possible He still has them now, it isn't clear.

The pastor I'm referring to as having a belief that He will always have them as a visible reminder of the cost.. and I can see some rationale to that..... if God wants to make us always feel unworthy and constantly guilt trip us over our prior life I suppose. If that's what keeps us from sinning on the New Earth.

but as I mentioned in the original post, Paul indicates that knowing the commandments of God actually triggers the revival of sin, and it can be indicated in Isaiah 65 that we forget our sins, and all the curse and pain of the current world, that those things won't even come to mind.

The rationale of forgetting sin is that God wouldn't want us to remember something He forgot and doesn't hold against us, why would He desire to guilt trip us over something that is literally passed away at that point?

So while I can see both rationales, I think I lean towards us forgetting sin. We'd have better things to remember.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If you have a grown son, doing well, perhaps in his 30's or 40's (or 20's) ....

do you recall and dwell on when he was 3 years old and spread jelly on the table ? When he was 4 years old and skinned his knee ?
A hundred other times , even if/when he blatantly disobeyed for a moment or a short time ?

Yet whether this all is (in the flesh) remembered or not, now on earth,

God Gives His Promise Otherwise, Forever and Ever, Without Change.

The devil throws up things I did 50 years ago in the first years I was a believer. I still regret those things, but I have to hold fast to the confession. The scripture says HE is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 RV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I cannot doubt HIS faithfulness. He did what He said He would do. He is my advocate and has taken up my cause.

1 John 2:1-2 RV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

 

[Jamdoc]

No.

Yes

John 20

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[Jamdoc]

Show ANY word meaning or referring to "scar" or "scars" ....
So as I said,, no.
John 20

the nail prints., being able to put your fingers into the nail prints, would indicate that there is a hole in Jesus' hands.

 

[eleos1954]

some scriptures that come to mind on this thought, which was triggered by someone saying they believe Jesus will bear His crucifixion scars for all eternity to remind us of the cost.

But when presented this statement, the first thing that came to mind was

Isaiah 65

a place of joy in the Lord and rejoicing, not guilt over the sin that Jesus had to die to atone for you.

furthermore, God promises He will forget our sins as a part of the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31


Isaiah 43


So if God has promised to forget sin, when all is made new, why would we remember sin? What profit would it have? Rather it is dangerous. The first sin was .. gaining knowledge of evil, and thus we then choose to do evil. If we aren't thinking about evil and had no knowledge of evil, then we don't do it. Paul illustrates this:

Romans 7


Part of how sin might not exist on the new earth is that we simply won't have memory of sin and sinful things just won't even come to mind. Why would you steal, God has promised to provide you with everything freely, stealing something you don't have but your neighbor has wouldn't come to mind unless you have memory of scarcity and a perceived need to have what you don't have. There'd be no need to remember a commandment not to steal, much less remember our past experiences with stealing, because the concept of stealing comes out of coveting and scarcity and a wicked heart that values self over others. All 3 of these things just won't exist, so stealing wouldn't even come into thought much less be done... unless you remind people of it.

Forgetting sin as God does, would ensure that we would not feel ashamed in His presence, which would prevent us from having joy or even feeling like we belonged there or it was like home.

That is something I have been meditating on recently is how would I ever feel at home on the New Earth, when I'm constantly reminded that I don't deserve to be there, don't belong there and am only there by grace, like charity, it wouldn't be home in that circumstance, it'd feel like a foster family, a refugee camp.
How it can be home is.. you don't remember your sins, and so all you know is a loving Father, and thus you do feel like you belong and you are at home.

We will remember our sin (there will be tears) but we also will know and be thankful they all were forgiven and that there is no more sin. We will have a full understanding of everything ... there will be a "mourning period" of sorts in heaven.

Revelation 21:4
English Standard Version
​

4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 21&version=ESV

 

[Jamdoc]

We will remember our sin (there will be tears) but we also will know and be thankful they all were forgiven and that there is no more sin. We will have a full understanding of everything ... there will be a "mourning period" of sorts in heaven.

Revelation 21:4​

English Standard Version​

​

4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 21&version=ESV

Some people use Revelation 21:4 as evidence of not remembering, and not just not remembering sin but they use that verse to comfort people who say, have families like mine all unbelievers and totally rejecting the gospel no matter what testimony or evidence presented, because the reality will set in at some point, of many believer's own family will be suffering for eternity and there's nothing they can do about it. It can become a source of eternal regret and anguish (especially if people blame themselves for their children falling away or being unable to convert parents or siblings). So people will use Revelation 21:4 as a suggestion that they'll forget those lost loved ones.. or they'll use the combination of Revelation 21:4 and Isaiah 65:17 as support that they'd forget things in this life they regret such as a sterile woman regretting that she'd never been able to have children, and by the most common and popular teachings, she never would it's too late at that point.

Revelation 21:4 and Isaiah 65:17 are probably the two verses most used to combat the idea of having regrets and suffering because of it, on the new Earth.

 

[eleos1954]

Some people use Revelation 21:4 as evidence of not remembering, and not just not remembering sin but they use that verse to comfort people who say, have families like mine all unbelievers and totally rejecting the gospel no matter what testimony or evidence presented, because the reality will set in at some point, of many believer's own family will be suffering for eternity and there's nothing they can do about it. It can become a source of eternal regret and anguish (especially if people blame themselves for their children falling away or being unable to convert parents or siblings). So people will use Revelation 21:4 as a suggestion that they'll forget those lost loved ones.. or they'll use the combination of Revelation 21:4 and Isaiah 65:17 as support that they'd forget things in this life they regret such as a sterile woman regretting that she'd never been able to have children, and by the most common and popular teachings, she never would it's too late at that point.

Revelation 21:4 and Isaiah 65:17 are probably the two verses most used to combat the idea of having regrets and suffering because of it, on the new Earth.

believer's own family will be suffering for eternity

There won't be eternal suffering ... there isn't a "burning place" not now nor for eternity ... God is love .... to think He would torture people is ridiculous ... it's about life or death .. death is death (cease to exist), to think there is a eternal burning place is a believing in a torturous life not death .... it's the 2nd death not the 2nd tortuous life.

 

[Jamdoc]

There won't be eternal suffering ... there isn't a "burning place" not now nor for eternity ... God is love .... to think He would torture people is ridiculous ... it's about life or death .. death is death (cease to exist), to think there is a eternal burning place is a believing in a torturous life not death .... it's the 2nd death not the 2nd tortuous life.

not to turn this into an ECT vs universalism vs annihilationism debate as there are several threads on that already, Revelation is clear that there is no rest day or night and the smoke from their torment rises forever.

 

[St_Worm2]

The pastor I'm referring to as having a belief that He will always have them as a visible reminder of the cost.. and I can see some rationale to that..... if God wants to make us always feel unworthy and constantly guilt trip us over our prior life I suppose. If that's what keeps us from sinning on the New Earth.

Hello Jamdoc, the Bible tells us,

Revelation 5​

1 I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. ​

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?” ​

3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. ​

4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; ​

5 and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, ~has overcome~ so as to open the book and its seven seals.” ​

6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. ​

7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. ​

8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. ​

9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. ​

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” ​

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, ​

12 saying with a loud voice, ​

“~Worthy is the Lamb that was slain~ to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” ​

If we lose all memory of our sins, we also lose all memory of why we needed the Lord to save us, all memory of what He saved us from, all memory of all that He did for us and why, all sense, then, of why the Lamb was slain and why He, as a result, is "worthy". It seems to me that this is something that we all 'need' to remember and rejoice because of/continually in. It's hardly intended to make us feel unworthy and guilty (even though we are both of those things) because it isn't really about us, rather, it's all about Him

I think I lean towards us forgetting sin. We'd have better things to remember.

What better thing could there possibly be for us to do than to ~always~ remember God's great love for us and how it was demonstrated to us (that He chose to come here as a man to die for us so that He could live out the balance of eternity with us, rather than apart from us, and we with Him

There were a couple of other things that I wanted to talk about, but this is plenty for now

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - I believe that what will "keep us from sinning on the New Earth" will be our new, glorified, God-like nature, with its desire for holiness and righteousness, alone. IOW, we will never 'choose' to sin again because we will never 'want' to sin again, as our old man/old self/old weak, sinful nature, that we still have to do battle with daily as believers here, will no longer be part of us there

Romans 5​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. ​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. ​