The concept of the Christian God doesn’t make sense to me.

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That is Satan at work..causing all these divisions ...
All these divisions are caused by a religious spirit and not the Holy Spirit. I believe that more than 70 percent of churches are operating from a religious spirit and have nothing of the Holy Spirit in them. This is in line with what Jesus said, that the way to eternal life is narrow and few there be who find it. This means that 70 percent of professing Christians a religious hypocrites who have a form godliness but deny the power of it, and will get a rude shock at the judgment when they hear Jesus telling them He never knew them. We all need to examine ourselves carefully to ensure that we are truly in the faith and are believing in and worshiping the Jesus of the Bible and not a Jesus of imagination and fantasy.
 
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Andrewn

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This means that 70 percent of professing Christians a religious hypocrites who have a form godliness but deny the power of it, and will get a rude shock at the judgment when they hear Jesus telling them He never knew them.
"Our most recent survey in Canada, conducted in 2018, found that a slim majority of Canadian adults (55%) say they are Christian, including 29% who are Catholic and 18% who are Protestant."

5 facts about religion in Canada

If what you're saying is true, and I suspect it is, then true Christians are only 17%. Unfortunately, this low estimate may be quite close to reality.

Religious affiliation and attendance in Canada
 
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Andrewn

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Australia still has a good proportion of churchgoers. The problem with that is mostly it's an outward formality with little reality. Around 5% of churchgoers are born again. There is nothing new about that. But the influence of Christianity is waning. Christians have only themselves to blame. Spiritual pride is rampant, division is rife and churches are more and more pandering to the world. I'm 68 so In 20 years, I'll nearing my "best before" date - if I'm still around. I'd hate to be growing up in the current era.


I haven't noticed spiritual pride or division among churches here in Canada. It looks to me like churches do understand the dilemma and the urgency to cooperate. There are certainly churches that are pondering to the world but they're losing membership quickly and I doubt they will exist in 20 years.


But unfortunately many 'churches' are about domination and control in order to maintain authourity and remain financially solvent. As a result their system (mini kingdom in man's image) becomes more important than the Gospel of the Kingdom and defense of their supporting doctrines more important than the simple will of God.


Strange...I have been associated with different churches for 53 years and I have never experienced what you are describing. Maybe NZ churches are different to those in Canada.

Interesting conversation :). Any conclusions?
 
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"Our most recent survey in Canada, conducted in 2018, found that a slim majority of Canadian adults (55%) say they are Christian, including 29% who are Catholic and 18% who are Protestant."

5 facts about religion in Canada

If what you're saying is true, and I suspect it is, then true Christians are only 17%. Unfortunately, this low estimate may be quite close to reality.

Religious affiliation and attendance in Canada
The problem is that anyone can start attending a church and do all the Christian stuff, put on the Christian "badge" and profess Christianity. I go along with the English Puritans who taught that an outward profession and even a personal choice was not enough to achieve genuine conversion to Christ. One had to press in to God and seek Him for the Holy Spirit to do the work of conversion in him. It had to be a total transformation of the heart and unless that happened, a person could not say that he was genuinely converted to Christ, and all he had until then was mere religion.

There are many who subscribe to "easy believerism" in that all one had to do was make a choice to "receive Christ" and conversion would automatically happen. The problem is that in many cases the evidence of a full transformation of the heart was not present. In my area, many of these were called "carnal Christians". But in my view, they may have been Christian by profession, but their hearts are still in the world.
 
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Andrewn

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Yet denominations exist.
Yes. They do. Studying church history gives us insight in how these denominations were formed. Usually it was because a group of believers in an established church received a new insight into some aspect of the ways of God and the hierarchy of that church threw them out, forcing them to form their own fellowship group outside of that church. Then that grew into a denomination. Then later in the history, the same thing happened in that denomination and a further new group was formed.

Of course there are some who could have stayed in the original church but they broke away by choice and not by compulsion.

What we need to do is to fully examine the Scripture concerning those who cause division:

"Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord [a]Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple" Romans 16:17-18).

What Paul is saying here is not that people are breaking away to form their own fellowship group for whatever reason. When the disciples told Jesus that a group not of their party were casting out demons, He told them not to stop them because whoever was not against them was for them. Paul said that some preach the gospel out of envy, but at least the gospel was being preached. Also, in the early church, each region had their own churches which were often quite different in character from each other, but kept to the same true preaching of the gospel.

Those who were causing division in the church were not those who chose to form their own distinctive fellowship group, but those who were preaching another gospel and subscribing to a different Jesus than the One whom Paul preached. Therefore the division was caused by those who departed from the true preaching of the gospel, to false teaching and a false gospel.

A good example of this is in the Charismatic movement, where some have departed from the true gospel by preaching that "we are gods", prosperity, guaranteed healing, and practicing Hindu mind control by teaching positive thinking and confession, and occult practice through kundalini manifestations, and using prayer as a witchcraft technique to get the outcomes they desire. Also, the Oneness doctrine where there is no trinity, but that the whole godhead is comprised of Jesus only. All these are divisions based on false doctrine and which depart from the true gospel of Christ.

Therefore, if I belong to a church that starts to preach that there is no personal God, virgin birth, the Bible not inspired, or the resurrection of Christ, then I am not being divisive. All I am doing is leaving that church and its false gospel and finding another one that preaches the true gospel of Christ.
 
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This is an oxymoron that perhaps Calvinists would use.
The definition of a "carnal Christian" is one who professes Christianity and gives lip service to it, but he is not prepared to depart from his worldly attitudes and favorite sins. He has one foot in the church and the other in the world.

This is not to say that we should not live as normal people in our community. We are in the world, but not of it. We live before others as a testimony of the transforming power of Christ, and we have a better hope in Christ than the pagans around us. This is because we have a different heart and we love Christ more than the world we live in.
 
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timothyu

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Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
 
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Aussie Pete

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The problem is that anyone can start attending a church and do all the Christian stuff, put on the Christian "badge" and profess Christianity. I go along with the English Puritans who taught that an outward profession and even a personal choice was not enough to achieve genuine conversion to Christ. One had to press in to God and seek Him for the Holy Spirit to do the work of conversion in him. It had to be a total transformation of the heart and unless that happened, a person could not say that he was genuinely converted to Christ, and all he had until then was mere religion.

There are many who subscribe to "easy believerism" in that all one had to do was make a choice to "receive Christ" and conversion would automatically happen. The problem is that in many cases the evidence of a full transformation of the heart was not present. In my area, many of these were called "carnal Christians". But in my view, they may have been Christian by profession, but their hearts are still in the world.
When I was 16, I went to a Billy Graham meeting. I went out the front and said the same words as everyone else. I went back to my seat unchanged. Someone else I knew vaguely went out at the same time. He got born again for real. I could see the change. It was another 4-1/2 years before I was truly born again. I knew then the difference.
 
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muichimotsu

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What exactly constitutes to you a reliable standard of actual truth? What do you accomplish by posting here rather than reading fiction? Is it the same to you? Do you enjoy reading our Christian "apophenia?"
A standard that is self correcting and not reliant purely on subjective individual assessments without independent verification and reliable testability.

Apophenia isn't really comparable as a noun to fiction, and no, it's not the same, because one is intended as fiction from the start
 
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Ken-1122

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He did do it right the first time...we have free will and choice...we messed up
But he made us flawed, and insisted we behave perfect. Had he made us as morally perfect as he is, we would have never made the choice to mess up.

But that would be following Him by force, not from love...He wants us to honor him and worship him...to love him with all of our heart...to be sincere...we can't do that if we are just going thru the motions...which unfortunately a lot of church goers are doing...playing church…
I don’t agree with the free will argument. That would be like the government insisting I pay taxes, but prefers I gladly choose to pay taxes and proclaims the consequences of not paying taxes is prison. If the Government said the only consequences of not paying taxes is no public education for my kids, no police department to protect me from criminals, and no fire department if my house burns down, that is freewill; and if my house burns down and nobody helps me put out the fire that would be the consequences of not paying taxes.
If God said choosing my will you will be rewarded with Heaven where there are streets of Gold, no sickness, everything is perfect etc. etc. but if you choose your will rather than mine, then you will remain on earth; that would be free will. And if I choose my free will remain on Earth and get sick, become homeless, and have a terrible life, that would be the consequences of choosing my will over Gods. However, if God said the consequences of following my will over his is hell fire and eternal torture, that is not free will, that is force.
My husband went to Sunday school and church occasionally as a child...as an adt he said he studied and sought God...not until 4 years ago at the age of 43 did he go to a Bible preaching church did he hear a clear and simple sermon on the gospel did he become converted.

If God knows everything, he knew me searching for him for 4 years would result in me giving up and losing my faith. If God is everything you say he is, you have to assume he wanted me to give up and lose my faith.
 
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timothyu

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If God knows everything, he knew me searching for him for 4 years would result in me giving up and losing my faith. If God is everything you say he is, you have to assume he wanted me to give up and lose my faith.
Yet here you are, still learning and seeking. :)
 
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Andrewn

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However, if God said the consequences of following my will over his is hell fire and eternal torture, that is not free will, that is force.
You insist that your understanding of Christianity is valid and are unable or unwilling to hear the truth. The problem is that you consider yourself full of information, there is space for more.
 
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Andrewn

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A standard that is self correcting and not reliant purely on subjective individual assessments without independent verification and reliable testability.
Would the experience of the saints throughout history be reliable? Or would it be mass hysteria?
 
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Ken-1122

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You insist that your understanding of Christianity is valid and are unable or unwilling to hear the truth. The problem is that you consider yourself full of information, there is space for more.
Where did you get that idea? Which post did I say anything remotely close to what you've accused me of?
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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That is Satan at work..causing all these divisions ...


The divisions themselves are not the problem. It is the attitude of the people who think they alone (and those who agree with them) have the truth and are saved. The problem is how we treat each other and condescend...even on a "Christian forum".
 
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