The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

[K2K]

The problem is that he is ascribing the Lord's authority on his writing, which is equal to Scripture. In effect he is writing Scripture and is saying that if Christians reject it, they will be doing so in error.

But the complete inspired Scripture is in the Bible and is not to be added to. So, any entity purporting to be Jesus coming and saying that a fellow's writing "has my finger on it", cannot be Jesus, because He would not contradict what is written in Proverbs 30:6 which has the instruction" "Do not add to my words".

No doubt that many reading his book would marvel at his "amazing insights", but who is that pointing to? It seems that it is glorifying Rick Joyner for his "amazing insights", rather than the Biblical Jesus, who is our wonderful Saviour!

Ascribing the Lord's authority???

Have you not read where Jesus gave His disciples "authority"!!!

That does not make His writing "Scripture", but it does show there is a clear misunderstanding that God gives us authority. In fact, His words have authority!! And His sheep hear His words!! But His words are spirit, from the Holy Spirit to our spirit. Jesus explained that if you are born again you hear the sound of the wind! How do some not understand this??

And He is not pointing to Rick Joyner for his "amazing insights" he is pointing to the Lord!! But Jesus also explained that some would not expect our testimony!!

Jn 3:7,8 Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born 'again'. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Jn 3:10,11 ... "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

So again, this is all explained in the Scriptures! Thus the Scriptures are good for having around, reading, and studying. But if some don't believe them! If they did believe the Scriptures they would be seeking the Lord, and hearing wind of the Spirit. They would get visions, dreams, and words from the Holy Spirit. But they don't, and will not except any testimony as to that being possible.

Rick Joyner, from what I read of his writings. is testifying to what he feels he picked up from our Lord Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean it is Scripture, but he is testifying that it is from the Lord. It's a testimony!!

So why do people get upset with it? Could it be they are not excepting his testimony that the Lord is really around and communicating with people? I think that is it. But this was explained in the very Scriptures they have put their faith in.

My friends, it is not important to you whether Rick Joyner hears from God or not. It is however very important to you that you hear from the Lord of lords and King of kings, Jesus Christ. Rick Joyner, from what I read, was testifying to that possibility, and he is right to do so! His testimony is not Scriptures, and I seriously doubt he would say it is. But if you are not excepting his testimony that the Lord does exists and communicates with people, via visions, dreams, and that small voice, it shows you don't believe the Scriptures, because they too testify about that!!

 

[K2K]

The judging that Jesus spoke about is making personal judgments about the motives and actions of individuals. But when it comes to people standing up and saying they have heard from Jesus who has told them certain things, we are instructed to judge what is said and to evaluate it according to what is said and taught in written Scripture. False teachers who teach heresy will twist the words of Jesus to try and prevent others from examining their teaching and to expose their error.


Jesus will never contradict what has already been inspired by the Holy Spirit in the pages of written Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit who inspired the written Bible and He will ever contradict Himself!


If you are listening to a voice purporting to be Jesus that is telling you to ignore the Bible and to believe what it is saying, even though it may be contradicting the Bible, then you are listening to a voice that does not come from Jesus at all.


There is no mention of anyone studying the Scriptures in this verse. He is talking about those who are following the Law in order to be justified by God.


As I said, the verse you quoted doesn't mention the Scriptures at all. Also, what you are saying is that the Bereans, when they heard the teachings of Paul, searched the Scriptures daily to so if these things are so, are wrong and that they should have listened to a voice which they should have recognised as Jesus?


If you are hearing a voice that tells you not to have confidence in the written Scriptures, then that voice is not coming from Jesus but from a lying spirit.

Oh my! People don't hear from the Lord and come up with all assorts of strange conclusions.

The judging that Jesus spoke about is making personal judgments about the motives and actions of individuals. But when it comes to people standing up and saying they have heard from Jesus who has told them certain things, we are instructed to judge what is said and to evaluate it according to what is said and taught in written Scripture. False teachers who teach heresy will twist the words of Jesus to try and prevent others from examining their teaching and to expose their error.

Ok first, the above is wrong in a number of ways. Jesus said do not judge!!!

Of course we all have decisions and conclusions to make in our own lives. That is not judging others, like Rick Joyner. That is using you God given ability to influence your own life. If you are smart and believe in Jesus Christ, you will seek Him for advice, and thus He becomes the "Wonderful Counselor" to you personally. That is different from judging others.

So we do not lean on our own understanding to judge others - ever! Or at least we shouldn't!! So thinking you are supposed to apply the Scriptures to judge others is just wrong. It's thinking like that that has cause soooo many problem in history!! Christians have all to often done discussing things in history because of that very mistake!

Now Jesus said He didn't judge, but as He heard He judged. That is, even Jesus Christ, the King of kings, doesn't make judgements. He listen to what the Father tells Him. Jesus Christ didn't study the Scriptures and make judgements about others, as is suggested!! He did and said what the Father told Him! To do that you must hear with your spiritual ears.

Have you not heard that prophets are to be subject to prophets???

If you don't understand this, it simply means that to judge whether someone else is hearing from God you yourself must hear from God for His judgement. Again, it is not your reading the Scriptures, but through your relationship with God that you know.

So reading the Scriptures is important to show you the Lord exists. They give you things to talk to the Lord about. If someone is saying something that doesn't make sense to you, based upon your reading the Scriptures, you then take it to the Lord and listen to what he says about it. But if you can't hear Him you had better not judge. Don't think that God doesn't know how you are! He will probably seen someone to reprove you, since you don't listen to Him. Why did the prophets of old say what the said? It was because people didn't listen to Him, so the Lord sent prophets to reprove them. You read that!

Jesus will never contradict what has already been inspired by the Holy Spirit in the pages of written Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit who inspired the written Bible and He will ever contradict Himself!

That is right, but your thoughts are not His thoughts and your ways are not His ways. So do you even know what is a contradiction if you are leaning on your own understanding? You don't!

Now has Rick Joyner contradicted the Scriptures??? I didn't see it. He said He got visions from the Lord - well that is according to what is written. So if a person is not getting visions and saying they are going by the Scriptures, they are the person contradicting the Scriptures, but can't see it!

The devil is the accuser of the saints. A statement like the above without any support is nothing but an accusation!!

Now if someone was to bring up a specific things Rick Joyner wrote and expressed why they felt it was contrary to the Scriptures, then it could be discussed, even with the Lord. And answers brought forth. With out that example, it is just an accusation. An example might be someone leaning on their own understanding of the Lord but not accually getting visions, dreams, or hearing from the Lord. That is a clear contradition to Jesus saying His sheep hear His voice, and what Joel wrote about people getting visions and dreams!

If you are listening to a voice purporting to be Jesus that is telling you to ignore the Bible and to believe what it is saying, even though it may be contradicting the Bible, then you are listening to a voice that does not come from Jesus at all.

Is this not another very poorly disguised accusation!

Telling someone to seek the Lord and listen to Jesus Christ is not saying to ignore the Scriptures. In fact it is exactly what the Scriptures are telling us. So it is coming into agreement with the Scriptures

So to support that, I have used numerous Scriptures to back it up, in the prior thread. In fact, I have many more Scriptures than probably any other person on this thread. I also use things the Lord told me. That is how the Scriptures go together with knowing the Lord. The very first words He told me were "Read Your Bible". It turned out that He was planning on teaching me, and the Bible has turned out to be a kind of text book, but it is not the Teacher. So if you are not listening to Him, He is not your Teacher, is He. And if He is your teacher, you are going to have things He told you. Rick Joyner expresses and writes down things he got from the Lord. And I believe he wrote down a few Scriptures also. The person who should be concerned is the person who does not hear the Lord's voice, so only has Scriptures to go by. Still, I would be more impressed if they even used the Scriptures, instead of vague inaccurate accusation.

So who is 'ignoring the Bible'? Is it the person who seeks the voice of the Lord, like the Scriptures tells us, or the person leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures which the Scriptures say not to do?

Prov 8:17 I love those who love me; and those who diligently seek me will find me.
Prov 8:34 Bless is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my gates.
Prov 7:4 To you, O men I call, and my voice is to the sons of men.
Prov 7:6 Listen, for I will speak noble things
Prov 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes
Prov 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding

So the above are just a few Scriptures saying what I am saying. The Bible tells us to not lean on our understanding but seek the voice of the Lord - over and over and over it tells us that. And if you hve heard from His you have heard things from Him you can write down.
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WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???



THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.



WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

Now the Scriptures are things that Solomon heard from the Lord and wrote them down. They are kept by God and are holy Script. or Spriptures. The prior three statements are things He told me. They are not kept by God as holy Script, but they were said to me and I can testify about God being real by using them. Rick Joyner had information that He got from God. You should have information you got from God. We should be able to have fellowship together about the things we get from God. But some don't seem to have anything they got from the Lord. How can that be if they are doing what Solomon wrote and are listening to the Lord. Was king Solomon wrong about the Lord speaking noble things? Or are there some not listening to Him, and searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life?

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[K2K]

The judging that Jesus spoke about is making personal judgments about the motives and actions of individuals. But when it comes to people standing up and saying they have heard from Jesus who has told them certain things, we are instructed to judge what is said and to evaluate it according to what is said and taught in written Scripture. False teachers who teach heresy will twist the words of Jesus to try and prevent others from examining their teaching and to expose their error.


Jesus will never contradict what has already been inspired by the Holy Spirit in the pages of written Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit who inspired the written Bible and He will ever contradict Himself!


If you are listening to a voice purporting to be Jesus that is telling you to ignore the Bible and to believe what it is saying, even though it may be contradicting the Bible, then you are listening to a voice that does not come from Jesus at all.


There is no mention of anyone studying the Scriptures in this verse. He is talking about those who are following the Law in order to be justified by God.


As I said, the verse you quoted doesn't mention the Scriptures at all. Also, what you are saying is that the Bereans, when they heard the teachings of Paul, searched the Scriptures daily to so if these things are so, are wrong and that they should have listened to a voice which they should have recognised as Jesus?


If you are hearing a voice that tells you not to have confidence in the written Scriptures, then that voice is not coming from Jesus but from a lying spirit.

Oh my! People don't hear from the Lord and come up with all assorts of strange conclusions.

The judging that Jesus spoke about is making personal judgments about the motives and actions of individuals. But when it comes to people standing up and saying they have heard from Jesus who has told them certain things, we are instructed to judge what is said and to evaluate it according to what is said and taught in written Scripture. False teachers who teach heresy will twist the words of Jesus to try and prevent others from examining their teaching and to expose their error.

Ok first, the above is wrong in a number of ways. Jesus said do not judge!!!

Of course we all have decisions and conclusions to make in our own lives. That is not judging others, like Rick Joyner. That is using you God given ability to influence your own life. If you are smart and believe in Jesus Christ, you will seek Him for advice, and thus He becomes the "Wonderful Counselor" to you personally. That is different from judging others.

So we do not lean on our own understanding to judge others - ever! Or at least we shouldn't!! So thinking you are supposed to apply the Scriptures to judge others is just wrong. It's thinking like that that has cause soooo many problem in history!! Christians have all to often done discussing things in history because of that very mistake!

Now Jesus said He didn't judge, but as He heard He judged. That is, even Jesus Christ, the King of kings, doesn't make judgements. He listen to what the Father tells Him. Jesus Christ didn't study the Scriptures and make judgements about others, as is suggested!! He did and said what the Father told Him! To do that you must hear with your spiritual ears.

Have you not heard that prophets are to be subject to prophets???

If you don't understand this, it simply means that to judge whether someone else is hearing from God you yourself must hear from God for His judgement. Again, it is not your reading the Scriptures, but through your relationship with God that you know.

So reading the Scriptures is important to show you the Lord exists. They give you things to talk to the Lord about. If someone is saying something that doesn't make sense to you, based upon your reading the Scriptures, you then take it to the Lord and listen to what he says about it. But if you can't hear Him you had better not judge. Don't think that God doesn't know how you are! He will probably seen someone to reprove you, since you don't listen to Him. Why did the prophets of old say what the said? It was because people didn't listen to Him, so the Lord sent prophets to reprove them. You read that!

Jesus will never contradict what has already been inspired by the Holy Spirit in the pages of written Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit who inspired the written Bible and He will ever contradict Himself!

That is right, but your thoughts are not His thoughts and your ways are not His ways. So do you even know what is a contradiction if you are leaning on your own understanding? You don't!

Now has Rick Joyner contradicted the Scriptures??? I didn't see it. He said He got visions from the Lord - well that is according to what is written. So if a person is not getting visions and saying they are going by the Scriptures, they are the person contradicting the Scriptures, but can't see it!

The devil is the accuser of the saints. A statement like the above without any support is nothing but an accusation!!

Now if someone was to bring up a specific things Rick Joyner wrote and expressed why they felt it was contrary to the Scriptures, then it could be discussed, even with the Lord. And answers brought forth. With out that example, it is just an accusation. An example might be someone leaning on their own understanding of the Lord but not accually getting visions, dreams, or hearing from the Lord. That is a clear contradition to Jesus saying His sheep hear His voice, and what Joel wrote about people getting visions and dreams!

If you are listening to a voice purporting to be Jesus that is telling you to ignore the Bible and to believe what it is saying, even though it may be contradicting the Bible, then you are listening to a voice that does not come from Jesus at all.

Is this not another very poorly disguised accusation!

Telling someone to seek the Lord and listen to Jesus Christ is not saying to ignore the Scriptures. In fact it is exactly what the Scriptures are telling us. So it is coming into agreement with the Scriptures

So to support that, I have used numerous Scriptures to back it up, in the prior thread. In fact, I have many more Scriptures than probably any other person on this thread. I also use things the Lord told me. That is how the Scriptures go together with knowing the Lord. The very first words He told me were "Read Your Bible". It turned out that He was planning on teaching me, and the Bible has turned out to be a kind of text book, but it is not the Teacher. So if you are not listening to Him, He is not your Teacher, is He. And if He is your teacher, you are going to have things He told you. Rick Joyner expresses and writes down things he got from the Lord. And I believe he wrote down a few Scriptures also. The person who should be concerned is the person who does not hear the Lord's voice, so only has Scriptures to go by. Still, I would be more impressed if they even used the Scriptures, instead of vague inaccurate accusation.

So who is 'ignoring the Bible'? Is it the person who seeks the voice of the Lord, like the Scriptures tells us, or the person leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures which the Scriptures say not to do?

Prov 8:17 I love those who love me; and those who diligently seek me will find me.
Prov 8:34 Bless is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my gates.
Prov 7:4 To you, O men I call, and my voice is to the sons of men.
Prov 7:6 Listen, for I will speak noble things
Prov 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes
Prov 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding

So the above are just a few Scriptures saying what I am saying. The Bible tells us to not lean on our understanding but seek the voice of the Lord - over and over and over it tells us that. And if you hve heard from His you have heard things from Him you can write down.
​

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???



THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.



WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

Now the Scriptures are things that Solomon heard from the Lord and wrote them down. They are kept by God and are holy Script. or Scriptures. The prior three statements are things He told me. They are not kept by God as holy Script, but they were said to me and I can testify about God being real by using them. Rick Joyner had information that He got from God. You should have information you got from God. We should be able to have fellowship together about the things we get from God. But some don't seem to have anything they got from the Lord. How can that be if they are doing what Solomon wrote and are listening to the Lord. Was king Solomon wrong about the Lord speaking noble things? Or are there some not listening to Him, and searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life?

If you are hearing a voice that tells you not to have confidence in the written Scriptures, then that voice is not coming from Jesus but from a lying spirit.

The Lord had the Scriptures written, but my confidence in not in the Scriptuers but in Him who had them written!!!!

This, sadly, is where the mistake is made. If you say you put your confidence in the Scriptures, then you are searching the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life!!!

If you are putting your confidence in Him who had the Scriptures written, you are going to be talking to Him about the Scriptures, and more, and will hear from Him and get to know Him. So what do you think the Bereans were actually doing when you read about them? If they believed what they read, they started talking to the Lord and listening to Him. He spoke to them wisdom and noble things. Paul was not saying to lean on your own understanding. This same Paul asked the Galatians, "This is the only things I want to find out from you; did you recieve the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith. [Gal 3:2]

So Paul wanted us to read the Bible but while hearing with faith!! That is why in 2 Timothy Paul wrote that the Scriptures are good for teaching, reproof, correction, but then right after Paul wrote to preach the Word. The problem is that those who have rejected hearing from God think that Paul meant them to preach the Scriptures. But the Greek word for Scriptures Paul used was Graphe, and the Greek word for word Paul used was Logos. So Paul didn't say to preach the Bible, He was saying to Preach the Lord. John explained that in the Beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God and the Logos was God and He was in the Beginning with God. The Logos took on flesh.

So you need to listen to the Lord to understand. The Lord is understanding!

Prov 8:14 Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine

But you don't read the Bible with the Lord, and that is why He said to me:

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???

That is the very problem too many Christians have. They read the Bible, but not with the Lord. So they preach the Bible instead of using the Bible to preach the Lord. They get upset and reject the testimony of those who hear the sound of the wind. They have put their confidence in the Bible according to their own testimony. That is: they search the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life instead of coming to Him. They say He died on the cross and is either still dead or is in a far off place called heaven, so that He might come back some day, but He can't be heard from today. And this is the reason He will tell many on that day that he never knew them, because He never did. They never sought a personal relationship with Him. They didn't read their Bible with Him (understanding) but with their undrestanding... understand???

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[K2K]

People - there was a problem and still is.

The problem is that people put their confidence in the things of God instead of in God!!

God had the Scriptures written, but our confidence is not in the writings but in the One who had them written. He is alive and active! Not the Scriptures. He stands at the door knocking with His voice. His voice is not His book. He wants a personal relationship with you, meaning you two can talk! Because God is spirit, it is not going to be by sound waves, nor ink on pages. The ink on pages is a record of what He told others. The record is good for study, reproof, correction, but is it no Him talking to you. Perhaps you hear from Him while you read the record, but you can and should hear from Him all through your day. Do you believe that? Is your faith in Jesus Christ or the book written to tell you about Him?

If you say you follow the Bible or if you say your confidence is in the Bible, or if you say you preach the Bible - you need to consider. You just said your faith is in the Scriptures instead of Jesus Christ!

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[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ascribing the Lord's authority???

Have you not read where Jesus gave His disciples "authority"!!!

That does not make His writing "Scripture", but it does show there is a clear misunderstanding that God gives us authority. In fact, His words have authority!! And His sheep hear His words!! But His words are spirit, from the Holy Spirit to our spirit. Jesus explained that if you are born again you hear the sound of the wind! How do some not understand this??

And He is not pointing to Rick Joyner for his "amazing insights" he is pointing to the Lord!! But Jesus also explained that some would not expect our testimony!!

Jn 3:7,8 Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born 'again'. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Jn 3:10,11 ... "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

So again, this is all explained in the Scriptures! Thus the Scriptures are good for having around, reading, and studying. But if some don't believe them! If they did believe the Scriptures they would be seeking the Lord, and hearing wind of the Spirit. They would get visions, dreams, and words from the Holy Spirit. But they don't, and will not except any testimony as to that being possible.

Rick Joyner, from what I read of his writings. is testifying to what he feels he picked up from our Lord Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean it is Scripture, but he is testifying that it is from the Lord. It's a testimony!!

So why do people get upset with it? Could it be they are not excepting his testimony that the Lord is really around and communicating with people? I think that is it. But this was explained in the very Scriptures they have put their faith in.

My friends, it is not important to you whether Rick Joyner hears from God or not. It is however very important to you that you hear from the Lord of lords and King of kings, Jesus Christ. Rick Joyner, from what I read, was testifying to that possibility, and he is right to do so! His testimony is not Scriptures, and I seriously doubt he would say it is. But if you are not excepting his testimony that the Lord does exists and communicates with people, via visions, dreams, and that small voice, it shows you don't believe the Scriptures, because they too testify about that!!

Jesus gave authority to His disciples to deal with sickness, disease and demons. There is no mention of Him giving authority to anything or anyone else.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

People - there was a problem and still is.

The problem is that people put their confidence in the things of God instead of in God!!

God had the Scriptures written, but our confidence is not in the writings but in the One who had them written. He is alive and active! Not the Scriptures. He stands at the door knocking with His voice. His voice is not His book. He wants a personal relationship with you, meaning you two can talk! Because God is spirit, it is not going to be by sound waves, nor ink on pages. The ink on pages is a record of what He told others. The record is good for study, reproof, correction, but is it no Him talking to you. Perhaps you hear from Him while you read the record, but you can and should hear from Him all through your day. Do you believe that? Is your faith in Jesus Christ or the book written to tell you about Him?

If you say you follow the Bible or if you say your confidence is in the Bible, or if you say you preach the Bible - you need to consider. You just said your faith is in the Scriptures instead of Jesus Christ!

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Deception shows when a person will not consider that he would be wrong, and continues at length, repeating the same view over and over again to convince a person that he is right.

 

[Heart2Soul]

An intriguing question came up in this writing:

Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

I read The Final Quest back in the 90's and it opened my eyes up to the reality of what we truly battle....as scripture says...we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities,against powers against the rulers of darkness in this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And the way the book described how these powers of satan work against God's people was a game changer for me.
I haven't read The Call but I can appreciate how God uses him in his writings.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[K2K]

Jesus gave authority to His disciples to deal with sickness, disease and demons. There is no mention of Him giving authority to anything or anyone else.

Of course it is mentions that He gives authority, and that to some extent to everyone. That is explained in your Bible, why do they not understand?

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???

We read that the Lord is called the Teacher, but we don't listen to Him so we don't have understanding.

All authority comes from God - period!!

That authority is expressed and comes through His words. That should be obvious, and He is King of kings, and Lord or lords. When a king wants something done he commands it to be done. So it is that God has all authority and all authority comes from Him. He is the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Now, because we don't listen we are rebellious!! That is, He commands you to listen to His voice but some won't. That can only happen because He gave us life which comes with the ability to make decisions, even the decision to not listen to Him. In other words, He gave you some authority when He gave you life. He can of course just as easily remove the authority that He gave you when He gave you life by simply removing your life. If you continue in your intentionally rebellious ways, He will do that as He decides.

Now, if you want teachings such and this you should read your Bible with Him and listen to Him while you do that. But if you are saying that your confidence is in you Bible, then you confess that you don't put your confidence in the living and active word of God which is Him. He was the living and active word of God to those who wrote the Bible. But all you have is a record of what He wrote to them, instead of a personal relationship with the Teacher. Have you not read that they will all be taught of God. Of course it is also written that they have ears but don't not listen.

If you care to believe it, He has given me some wonderful teaching, which were of great value to me, on power and authority.

Perhaps you should read the book of Job. I would suggest talking to Him while you read it, so you can get some understanding about it. Satan comes and talks to Jesus. or maybe you still don't understand that the Christ was even then the word of God. So Satan had to deal with our Lord even then. Our Lord, the Lord of lords, tells Satan that He like Job. Satan hates the Lord, so Satan wants to destroy who the Lord likes, but Satan can't do a thing unless the Lord gives Him authority!!

Job 2:6 So the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life"

Of course Satan would have like to kill Job, but Satan could even touch Job until He was given the authority to us his power against Job. That authority to use his power against Job came from God!!! Did you not read any of this already?

Still, God did not give Satan authority to kill Job, so Satan couldn't kill Job, because Satan hadn't been given the authority from God to do that.

So the Bible clearly shows that God has all authority, and even Satan has to get his authority from God, but if you don't read your Bible with God then you have to lean on your own understanding of the Bible and it shows in your writings.

BTW, I found Job to be a particularly interesting Book to talk to the Lord about. When I read it, it seemed to me that God was a rather cruel God when I first read it. But God did not tell Satan to harm Job, He just said, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life." What should have Satan done for someone the King liked.

Esther 6:6 So Hamen came in and the king said to him, "What is to be done for the man whom the king desires to honor"?

The King of kings desired Job to be honor and had let Satan know that, so Satan should have lead him around on a white horse, but in his evil heart Satan wants to kill and destroy. The giving of authority to Satan was a test for Satan and a test that showed the nature of Satan's evil heart. So consider - God gives you and all of you some authority even by Him giving you life. What are you doing to do with it.

Christ is ultimately the One whom the Father wants to honor. Are you putting Him on a white horse and proclaiming Him, or are you trying to kill the living and active Word of God by proclaiming Him to be dead so that you only have the ink on pages to live by. Knowing the bible will not save you, knowing the Lord of lord and King of kings does. If you know Him, you will know and understand that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Him, only not all are sitting and His feet and listening to Him. That too becomes clear!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes...... and many professional Christians may be turned away from his writings by one error...... because Messiah Yeshua - Jesus told him specifically that his own fingerprints would be on his writings........ That there would be error in what he writes.........

but it would still inspire many to change greatly.

Could there be gems in heaven that can give us a message?



It is difficult for me to imagine Rick Joyner just simply making things up with such amazing insight????

If you read the introduction in his books he tells you that the book is fictional yet inspired by the Holy Spirit through the dreams and visions given him while writing it.
The Final Quest for example was not scriptural in its setting and the characters are fictional....however the storyline itself is based on scripture.
He simply used metaphors and symbolic descriptions in them.
It is a good read and can help people understand how the enemy operates against Christians.

 

[DennisTate]

People - there was a problem and still is.

The problem is that people put their confidence in the things of God instead of in God!!

God had the Scriptures written, but our confidence is not in the writings but in the One who had them written. He is alive and active! Not the Scriptures. He stands at the door knocking with His voice. His voice is not His book. He wants a personal relationship with you, meaning you two can talk! Because God is spirit, it is not going to be by sound waves, nor ink on pages. The ink on pages is a record of what He told others. The record is good for study, reproof, correction, but is it no Him talking to you. Perhaps you hear from Him while you read the record, but you can and should hear from Him all through your day. Do you believe that? Is your faith in Jesus Christ or the book written to tell you about Him?

If you say you follow the Bible or if you say your confidence is in the Bible, or if you say you preach the Bible - you need to consider. You just said your faith is in the Scriptures instead of Jesus Christ!

​

​

That is a good point......
by 1988 although my old church had teachings on the meaning of pretty much every verse from Genesis to Revalation....... I was beginning to suspect that we might be significantly in error. I prayed and asked for correction and I was soon led out of my old church.

 

[DennisTate]

I read The Final Quest back in the 90's and it opened my eyes up to the reality of what we truly battle....as scripture says...we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities,against powers against the rulers of darkness in this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And the way the book described how these powers of satan work against God's people was a game changer for me.
I haven't read The Call but I can appreciate how God uses him in his writings.
Thanks for sharing.

The Torch and the Sword is quite encouraging as well....

 

[K2K]

If you read the introduction in his books he tells you that the book is fictional yet inspired by the Holy Spirit through the dreams and visions given him while writing it.
The Final Quest for example was not scriptural in its setting and the characters are fictional....however the storyline itself is based on scripture.
He simply used metaphors and symbolic descriptions in them.
It is a good read and can help people understand how the enemy operates against Christians.

Yes indeed. That is exactly correct. I remember even getting a lot out of the introduction and did find the book very useful. Simply put, Rick Joyner claims to have gotten visions from the Lord Jesus Christ. The book is a record of those visions. The visions glorify Jesus Christ, and have meaning, but they are in parable format. Ps 78 say that He speaks to us in parables and dark sayings. Jesus came speaking to people in parables. The prophets of old often had visions or dreams that came to them in parable format. Joel wrote that we would have visions and dreams. So that type of thing is to be expected.

I recommend the book, and for the record, the Lord recommended it to me. Still people should talk to Him about it, because we follow Him. The Lord knows what each of us need to do and when. What bothers me is the people that don't seek the Lord and make judgements on their own. If we would all just seek the Lord and be opened to what He is doing, even like Rick Joyner seems to be doing, I think we would have much better situations in this world as a whole, and eternal life in the next.

 

[Blade]

I have heard Rick over the years.. just.. don't agree with some of his teachings. So.. I don't listen to him <--that means nothing. He loves Jesus.. amen.

Theres something I say many times.. we ask yet we don't ask Him. He lives in us.. walks with us.. we have the sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. TALKS. Yet do we "Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord." "Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!"

I can't be the only one that reads that word and .. no clue what that part means. So.. I ask Him. He always backs it up with His word.

 

[K2K]

I have heard Rick over the years.. just.. don't agree with some of his teachings. So.. I don't listen to him <--that means nothing. He loves Jesus.. amen.

Theres something I say many times.. we ask yet we don't ask Him. He lives in us.. walks with us.. we have the sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. TALKS. Yet do we "Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord." "Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!"

I can't be the only one that reads that word and .. no clue what that part means. So.. I ask Him. He always backs it up with His word.

I like the above post!!

There are a number of things that I relate to:

First; there are many people whom I feel certain know and hear from the Lord, but I don't always agree with what they say!!

There are reason for this!! First, the Lord maybe and is doing things that I don't understand!! We read in the Bible that there are different parts of the body. So one person who knows and hears from the Lord can get excited over and get a different understanding from the Lord than I do. It can be just because the Lord gave them a different personality than me, and it also can be that the Lord is doing something different with them, and He is with me. So the important part is that they are seeking the Lord and not that they have to view every thing like I do!

Which brings up the last part of the above post: which is that we can ask Him, our Lord Jesus Christ, and get and answer from Him via the Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit.

There is one thing I would like to point out. What the Lord says is His "word."!!!

Now God does not change, so His personality and response there it is going to be consistant! BUT - do you fully understand it? The Lord is regularly show me new things. If I tell someone else what He is showing me, it doesn't mean they are going to understand it, or even understand how it goes with the Lord's personality or the sacred writings. The Lord came into my life in a big way about 20 years ago. So if He goes over something with me, is a Christian the Lord has been working with for a couple of years going to be in a position to understand what He is now going over with me. They probably are going to think me crazy.

For example, the Lord has been going over the Kingdom with me alot, and even for years now. Yet if I try going over the regular presence of angels and the importance of seeing and hearing not only the King but the Kingdom, most new Christians are going to have problems, because they are still working on their relationship with our King, Jesus Christ. That must be done first, before getting to know the angels that serve Him. Yet the Bible is clear about His angels watching over you and minisering to us, so that is happening, but most Christians I talk to are almost completely unaware of that happening.

It's Biblical [that angels are with you and minister to you] but I have to be very aware of talking to Christians about it simply because in general they don't know about what is going on around them, so they will have trouble "agreeing" with what I would explain to them. And there are Christians that have been shown things that I don't understand and thus couldn't agree with, but it doesn't mean they are wrong. I need to remember that also. I can ask the Lord. Most often in those cases, He calms me and works around my questions because He knows what I need to know and when. We are all works in progress, and we are all being taught by Him. We need to remember that!

 

[K2K]

Deception shows when a person will not consider that he would be wrong, and continues at length, repeating the same view over and over again to convince a person that he is right.

Deception shows when we don't seek the Lord and listen to Him!!!

People don't seek the Lord and His voice like they should, but He doesn't give up on trying to get them to listen to Him!! And He uses other people to tell them to seek the Lord.

The Lord once took me to Ezek 3. He had me read it then as I was reading it He started speaking to me, so that I could hear His small voice giving similar instruction. He was saying, "Karl, I am sending you to those who should listen to Me, but they will not be willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to Me.

Ezek 3:6,7... But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me.

Over and over He has me trying to get people to listen to Him. The deception is not me trying to get people to seek the Lord over and over. The deception is a result of them not seeking the Lord and listening to Him. Surely anyone who really listens to Him understands this! Still, they would be willing to listen to you telling them to listen to Him, since they are unwilling to listen to Him in the first place.

So I because the Lord is patience with people, He continues to ask me to tell people to listen to Him. If you look at my post, you will certainly see that is what I am trying to do - get people to seek His voice and listen to Him!

Rick Joyner knows the Lord and listens to Him, which doesn't mean you need to listen to Rick Joyner, but I feel certain that Rick Joyner (based upon what I read of his and from what the Lord told me about Him) would have you seek the Lord and that Rick Joyner does what he does for the Lord in order that you would seek the Lord Jesus Christ for yourself. Rick Joyner is not alone on that. I mentioned Benny Hinn, and he knows the Lord and hears from Him (based upon what I saw of him and from what the Lord told me about Him), and I feel certain that Benny has done what he has for the Lord so that people would seek the Lord for themselves and listen to Him personally.

Still, though the Lord over and over and over and over has sent the men who knew Him to tell people to seek Him and listen to what He personally tells them, the people would not listen to them because they were not willing to listen to Him.

God is not deceived - though God continues to repeat the message over and over!!

So who is the person who writes "Deception shows when a person will not consider that he would be wrong, and continues at length, repeating the same view over and over again to convince a person that he is right." They have just said that God is deceived and is not write. But God is right and always has been right, but sending people over and over to remind others to seek Him!

Yes - I say it over and over - please seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him! Yet a day is coming when I won't say that. It's a day when those that did seek Him and listen to Him are with Him and those that didn't are not! But as for "Today" if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts like those before you. And "Today" is the day to hear His voice! And as long as "Today" is called "Today" I will be doing that.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today", so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

So deception show us as a result of sin, not by day after day reminding others to listen to the Lord "Today".

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Deception shows when we don't seek the Lord and listen to Him!!!

People don't seek the Lord and His voice like they should, but He doesn't give up on trying to get them to listen to Him!! And He uses other people to tell them to seek the Lord.

The Lord once took me to Ezek 3. He had me read it then as I was reading it He started speaking to me, so that I could hear His small voice giving similar instruction. He was saying, "Karl, I am sending you to those who should listen to Me, but they will not be willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to Me.

Ezek 3:6,7... But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me.

Over and over He has me trying to get people to listen to Him. The deception is not me trying to get people to seek the Lord over and over. The deception is a result of them not seeking the Lord and listening to Him. Surely anyone who really listens to Him understands this! Still, they would be willing to listen to you telling them to listen to Him, since they are unwilling to listen to Him in the first place.

So I because the Lord is patience with people, He continues to ask me to tell people to listen to Him. If you look at my post, you will certainly see that is what I am trying to do - get people to seek His voice and listen to Him!

Rick Joyner knows the Lord and listens to Him, which doesn't mean you need to listen to Rick Joyner, but I feel certain that Rick Joyner (based upon what I read of his and from what the Lord told me about Him) would have you seek the Lord and that Rick Joyner does what he does for the Lord in order that you would seek the Lord Jesus Christ for yourself. Rick Joyner is not alone on that. I mentioned Benny Hinn, and he knows the Lord and hears from Him (based upon what I saw of him and from what the Lord told me about Him), and I feel certain that Benny has done what he has for the Lord so that people would seek the Lord for themselves and listen to Him personally.

Still, though the Lord over and over and over and over has sent the men who knew Him to tell people to seek Him and listen to what He personally tells them, the people would not listen to them because they were not willing to listen to Him.

God is not deceived - though God continues to repeat the message over and over!!

So who is the person who writes "Deception shows when a person will not consider that he would be wrong, and continues at length, repeating the same view over and over again to convince a person that he is right." They have just said that God is deceived and is not write. But God is right and always has been right, but sending people over and over to remind others to seek Him!

Yes - I say it over and over - please seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him! Yet a day is coming when I won't say that. It's a day when those that did seek Him and listen to Him are with Him and those that didn't are not! But as for "Today" if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts like those before you. And "Today" is the day to hear His voice! And as long as "Today" is called "Today" I will be doing that.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today", so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

So deception show us as a result of sin, not by day after day reminding others to listen to the Lord "Today".

God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible. The canon of Scripture had closed by the 4th Century AD. If a person says that God has spoken to Him, then what is being spoken is Scripture, because when God speaks, it is Scripture. Therefore if the voice purporting to be God speaks things that are not already inspired in the written Scriptures, then the voice is actually adding to what has already been written; but God has plainly said that anyone who adds to the written Scriptures will be exposed by Him as a liar (Proverbs 30:6).

But if the voice is reminding you of what has already been written in the Scripture and is applying it to your situation, then the voice is from the Holy Spirit.

Rick Joyner has given teaching which he says comes from the voice of God, but much of it is not found in Scripture, but is "new" revelation that he says God has given to him. But in the light that when God speaks, He is speaking Scripture, and that the canon of Scripture is closed and nothing more is to be added to it, then the "new" revelation that Joyner is teaching is false and lies. because he is adding new Scripture to what has already been written,and therefore, according to Proverbs 30:6, God Himself will come and expose him as a liar.

 

[K2K]

God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible. The canon of Scripture had closed by the 4th Century AD. If a person says that God has spoken to Him, then what is being spoken is Scripture, because when God speaks, it is Scripture. Therefore if the voice purporting to be God speaks things that are not already inspired in the written Scriptures, then the voice is actually adding to what has already been written; but God has plainly said that anyone who adds to the written Scriptures will be exposed by Him as a liar (Proverbs 30:6).

But if the voice is reminding you of what has already been written in the Scripture and is applying it to your situation, then the voice is from the Holy Spirit.

Rick Joyner has given teaching which he says comes from the voice of God, but much of it is not found in Scripture, but is "new" revelation that he says God has given to him. But in the light that when God speaks, He is speaking Scripture, and that the canon of Scripture is closed and nothing more is to be added to it, then the "new" revelation that Joyner is teaching is false and lies. because he is adding new Scripture to what has already been written,and therefore, according to Proverbs 30:6, God Himself will come and expose him as a liar.

"God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible." ??????

The above statement is the lie!

Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice - so if both statements are true there are no sheep of His today nor have there been since the Bible was written!!

Jesus said to His disciples that He would never leave them. For both statements to be true, there has not bee a disciple of the Lord's nor a single person to know Him since the Bible was written!!

Jesus explained the His words are spirit and that it is the Holy Spirit who gives life, so if all He has to say was written in the Bible then nobody since the Bible has life because they don't have the words of the Spirit.

The statement of a personal belief that all God has to say was written in the words of the Bible is a statement that God is either dead of in some far off place called heaven, as opposed to a statement that the word of God is near you. And if we read the Bible we find that Moses and Paul had to deal with people just like that in their times.

Romans 10:1-9 Brethen, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them, that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge... But the righteousness back on faith speaks as follows, "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?'... "DO NOT SAY IN YOU HEART, 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?"... But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching

Deut 30:14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Both Moses and Paul, and virtually every other writer of Scriptures were trying to tell you that God is there to be heard from!! Yet though the people had a zeal for God they didn't know Him, they didn't seek Him, they didn't listen to what He had to say to them. Though Moses and Paul, and virtually every other person God used to write the Scriptures tried to tell them that the Word of God could be found inside their own heart and even on their own lips if they paid attention, they didn't seek the voice of the Lord!!

As a result, Jesus had to tell the Jews "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me, and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" - Jn:5:39,40

So as you can read, if you really care to read and believe what you read - The Bible was written as a testimony to the existence of Jesus Christ, who you can hear from via the Holy Spirit. And Jesus Christ is not dead! He arose from the cross and lives!! And Jesus is not in some far off place called heaven so that you can not hear from Him! Have you not read that the Kingdom of God is in your midst? Did you not read that He said He would never leave you? Did you not also read that He sent the Spirit and the Spirit of God speaks words, and that the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks and He takes what belongs to Jesus Christ (the very word of God belong to Jesus Christ) and speaks them to you. The Spirit acts like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rick Joyner knows all this, but certainly not Rick Joyner only! All His sheep hear His voice!! But the one who says God does not speak to us today, does not hear the voice of Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. He does not know Jesus Christ. And since it is the Holy Spirit who gives life and His words are spirit and are life, that person does not have life now.

Because people are often like that - Moses explained that the word was near them, hoping they might consider and seek the Lord - Paul explained that the word was near them, hoping they might consider and seek the Lord Jesus Christ. Rick explains this also. Believer's preach the Word to mean that the Word is near them!! So it is that I also try to explain that the Word of God is near them, and that they need to seek the Lord and listen for what He has to say to them. To quote Paul, " that is, the word of faith which we are preaching."

My friends, if you don't actually know Jesus Christ - if you are not hearing from that small voice that comes from the Spirit of God with the words God personally has for you, then you need to start seeking Him and listening in your heart and to your lips for the word of God. You need to believe in Him.

The Spirit of God is no the only spirit. That snake whose first words were, "Did God really say?" is still around also. So who is saying to Rick Joyner, "Did God really say?"? What voice says that, according to the Bible.


BTW - I have not read any of Rick Joyner's books for at least ten years. He is not my concern. However, by change or by God (depending upon your belief) I just happened to come across a Rick Joyner book yesterday at a thrift store. I had read the Final Quest and Call about 2003, but I came across the last book of the series yesterday, "The Torch and the Sword", so I had to pick it up. It only cost me 50 cents. It is a fairly small book worth reading. The Bible explains that "Your sons and daughters will prophesy, you young man will see visions, your old men will dream dreams" - I get some dreams, some vision, and plenty of words from the Lord. Indeed, the only reason I had gone to that particular thrift store yesterday was very specifically because my Lord, via that small voice of His, had told me to go to it. I really feel sad for the person who does not know that the Lord still speaks to His sheep today!!

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks

So according to the Bible, it is just a lie to say, "God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible." They just don't believe in Jesus Christ!

Gal 3:22 the Scriptures has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those you believe.

Jn 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

I wish people truly knew my Lord. The one who told me to go to the thrift store yesterday, where I found the last book in the series by Rick Joyner and a most interesting time. A time when I have been posting about him, even about 15 years after reading the first books in the series. But the one who believe all God had to say was written thousands of years to go certainly doesn't know Jesus Christ as their Lord!!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible." ??????

The above statement is the lie!

Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice - so if both statements are true there are no sheep of His today nor have there been since the Bible was written!!

Jesus said to His disciples that He would never leave them. For both statements to be true, there has not bee a disciple of the Lord's nor a single person to know Him since the Bible was written!!

Jesus explained the His words are spirit and that it is the Holy Spirit who gives life, so if all He has to say was written in the Bible then nobody since the Bible has life because they don't have the words of the Spirit.

The statement of a personal belief that all God has to say was written in the words of the Bible is a statement that God is either dead of in some far off place called heaven, as opposed to a statement that the word of God is near you. And if we read the Bible we find that Moses and Paul had to deal with people just like that in their times.

Romans 10:1-9 Brethen, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them, that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge... But the righteousness back on faith speaks as follows, "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?'... "DO NOT SAY IN YOU HEART, 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?"... But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching

Deut 30:14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Both Moses and Paul, and virtually every other writer of Scriptures were trying to tell you that God is there to be heard from!! Yet though the people had a zeal for God they didn't know Him, they didn't seek Him, they didn't listen to what He had to say to them. Though Moses and Paul, and virtually every other person God used to write the Scriptures tried to tell them that the Word of God could be found inside their own heart and even on their own lips if they paid attention, they didn't seek the voice of the Lord!!

As a result, Jesus had to tell the Jews "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me, and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" - Jn:5:39,40

So as you can read, if you really care to read and believe what you read - The Bible was written as a testimony to the existence of Jesus Christ, who you can hear from via the Holy Spirit. And Jesus Christ is not dead! He arose from the cross and lives!! And Jesus is not in some far off place called heaven so that you can not hear from Him! Have you not read that the Kingdom of God is in your midst? Did you not read that He said He would never leave you? Did you not also read that He sent the Spirit and the Spirit of God speaks words, and that the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks and He takes what belongs to Jesus Christ (the very word of God belong to Jesus Christ) and speaks them to you. The Spirit acts like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rick Joyner knows all this, but certainly not Rick Joyner only! All His sheep hear His voice!! But the one who says God does not speak to us today, does not hear the voice of Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. He does not know Jesus Christ. And since it is the Holy Spirit who gives life and His words are spirit and are life, that person does not have life now.

Because people are often like that - Moses explained that the word was near them, hoping they might consider and seek the Lord - Paul explained that the word was near them, hoping they might consider and seek the Lord Jesus Christ. Rick explains this also. Believer's preach the Word to mean that the Word is near them!! So it is that I also try to explain that the Word of God is near them, and that they need to seek the Lord and listen for what He has to say to them. To quote Paul, " that is, the word of faith which we are preaching."

My friends, if you don't actually know Jesus Christ - if you are not hearing from that small voice that comes from the Spirit of God with the words God personally has for you, then you need to start seeking Him and listening in your heart and to your lips for the word of God. You need to believe in Him.

The Spirit of God is no the only spirit. That snake whose first words were, "Did God really say?" is still around also. So who is saying to Rick Joyner, "Did God really say?"? What voice says that, according to the Bible.


BTW - I have not read any of Rick Joyner's books for at least ten years. He is not my concern. However, by change or by God (depending upon your belief) I just happened to come across a Rick Joyner book yesterday at a thrift store. I had read the Final Quest and Call about 2003, but I came across the last book of the series yesterday, "The Torch and the Sword", so I had to pick it up. It only cost me 50 cents. It is a fairly small book worth reading. The Bible explains that "Your sons and daughters will prophesy, you young man will see visions, your old men will dream dreams" - I get some dreams, some vision, and plenty of words from the Lord. Indeed, the only reason I had gone to that particular thrift store yesterday was very specifically because my Lord, via that small voice of His, had told me to go to it. I really feel sad for the person who does not know that the Lord still speaks to His sheep today!!

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks

So according to the Bible, it is just a lie to say, "God has said all He has to say through the written words of the Bible." They just don't believe in Jesus Christ!

Gal 3:22 the Scriptures has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those you believe.

Jn 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

I wish people truly knew my Lord. The one who told me to go to the thrift store yesterday, where I found the last book in the series by Rick Joyner and a most interesting time. A time when I have been posting about him, even about 15 years after reading the first books in the series. But the one who believe all God had to say was written thousands of years to go certainly doesn't know Jesus Christ as their Lord!!

The canon of Scripture is closed. Any "revelation" that is not already inspired in the written Scriptures is false. The Holy Spirit is not speaking new Scripture to anyone. The last who wrote Scripture were the Apostles of Christ, because of their special and unique calling. Once they had completed their writing, which is found in the New Testament epistles, there is no further direct revelational inspiration of the Holy Spirit, other than to give deeper insight into what has already been written in the Old and New Testaments.

If Rick Joyner is teaching "revelation" that has not already been inspired in the written Scriptures, then he is giving false teaching and presenting a different Jesus to the Jesus of the gospels.

The Scripture is quite clear:

"Suppose someone who claims to be a prophet, or to have inspired dreams, stands up and tells all of you that some unusual, significant sign or wonder is going to happen, and also says, “I’m here to let you know about some other gods you should be worshiping.” What if the thing that person has predicted actually happens? 3 Don’t listen to what that prophet or dreamer says! The Eternal your God is testing you to see whether you really do love Him completely, with your whole heart and soul" (Deut 13:1-3).

 

[K2K]

Is 1:2,3

Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.
An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

 

[K2K]

The canon of Scripture is closed. Any "revelation" that is not already inspired in the written Scriptures is false. The Holy Spirit is not speaking new Scripture to anyone. The last who wrote Scripture were the Apostles of Christ, because of their special and unique calling. Once they had completed their writing, which is found in the New Testament epistles, there is no further direct revelational inspiration of the Holy Spirit, other than to give deeper insight into what has already been written in the Old and New Testaments.

If Rick Joyner is teaching "revelation" that has not already been inspired in the written Scriptures, then he is giving false teaching and presenting a different Jesus to the Jesus of the gospels.

The Scripture is quite clear:

"Suppose someone who claims to be a prophet, or to have inspired dreams, stands up and tells all of you that some unusual, significant sign or wonder is going to happen, and also says, “I’m here to let you know about some other gods you should be worshiping.” What if the thing that person has predicted actually happens? 3 Don’t listen to what that prophet or dreamer says! The Eternal your God is testing you to see whether you really do love Him completely, with your whole heart and soul" (Deut 13:1-3).

Jesus told them they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life instead of coming to Him. (Jn 5:39,40)

Moses told them the Word was near them and it wasn't too hard to hear the word.

Deut 30:14 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."

Isaiah explained that they needed to listen for the Lord speaks, but still that His people did not know.

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,...
Is 1:3 “An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master’s manger, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand.”

Paul wrote that he had a desire for them because they were zealous, but again they didn't know.

Rom 10:1,2 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

They had been saying in their heart who would ascend into heaven so that they might hear the word of God.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down),

They have always had the same problem. They don't want to believe, because they don't want to hear the voice of the Lord.

Ex 20:19 Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not god speak to us, or we will die.

The problem was that Moses was telling them to listen to the Lord and they were unwilling. It is as true today as it always has been. We have this record, this testimony of Jesus Christ standing there are wanting us to listen, but the people being unwilling to listen. So what can they now say of someone like Rick Joyner, who like Abram, hears from the Lord in a vision. They have put their faith in the Bible but they don't believe what is written in the Bible and the words of Moses.

Jn 5:44,45 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”