The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

[K2K]

To hear from God in the written down word and to believe by faith is superior. God’s written down word has endured millennia and can be SHARED. It was lifeless to those the Lord rebuked because they were unbelieving. We are not.

Reading the "written down word" didn't work for the Pharisees. Jesu showed up in front of them and had to explain that; His words were spirit.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the word that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

He was talking to them in sound waves at that time, and they had studied the "written word" which by the way is called "Scripture" in your Bible. Yet, they couldn't understand what He was saying. That happened then, and there is nothing new under the Sun.

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Of course He was talking to them in the flesh with sounds waves, and they heard those words, and those words were recorded so you can read them. You can even say them one to another, but those words, though from the Lord, did not save them then, and reading them now will not save you either, because it is the Spirit who gives life, just like He explained and is recorded in your Bible.

So why do you not understand this today. Is it not exactly like is recorded in the Bible. You keep thinking the reading the Scriptures, like the Pharisees did, is going to save you. You think you are faithful to God because you read your Bible. But being faithful to the Lord means listening to Him, and doing what He personally tells you. Did you not read "I have spoken to you".

He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens up to Him, He will come into them and eat with them, and them with Him. (Rev 3:20)

I hear His voice, we walk, we talk, I will sit down at the local fast food restaurant and have a conversation with Him. So I can tell you many many things He told me and we talked about. Now the first words He told me were "Read Your bible", but even by me hearing those first words from Him it showed that He was not the Bible, and that His words spoken to me were not those of the Bible. Those words He spoke to others. You did not have those words spoken to you! They had those words spoken to them! You must hear from Him yourself!

He has not changed. He had stood at the door and had spoken spiritual words to the Pharisees, but they rejected the Spirit of God, and they worked to get Jesus Christ hung on a few pieces of wood. And it is not different today. They still say Jesus is hanging on the pieces of wood made into paper and written on in ink. But He is a person and He is alive. He is the King of kings and so has a throne in the Kingdom of God, and that Kingdom is in your midst, but they reject it today. With their spiritual eyes they do not see, with their spiritual ears they do not hear. So they call the Scriptures (the graphe in Greek) the Word of God and put their faith in the graphe/Scriptures, thinking the 'written word' will save them. They call the line upon line of text the Word of God, because they will not listen to the Lord of Lord.

… but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, 'Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line, a little hear, a little there,' that they may go stumble backward, be broken, snared, and taken captive. (Is 28:13)

It has all been explained to them. It was all written down. So they have not excuse for not seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him as the Word of God. But they won't listen. They just couldn't grasp that Jesus Christ is alive and you hear His words via the Spirit of God, and it is that hearing with your spiritual ears, and that believing has always been counted as righteousness. They Scriptures explain this, but they don't even believe the Scriptures that they put their faith in. If they had believed they would seek the Lord and find Him.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord [that is the Christ not the book] came to Abram in a vision, saying "...."

The Christ as the Word of God came to Abram and spoke with Him in a vision - which sounds a whole lot like what Rick Joyner was telling about in his books. But sound nothing like what I have been reading on much of this thread.

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Abram did not read the Scriptures, but he heard from the Lord in a vision and believed. That belief was counted as righteousness to him. And the real off spring of Abraham do what Abraham did. They hear from the Lord, in visions, in dreams, with their spirit from His Spirit, and they believe it is the Lord. And still today, that belief is counted to them as righteousness. This is all explain in the Scriptures, so again, why don't you understand what I am saying? Is it "because you cannot hear" (Jn 8:43) His words??

My friends - Jesus Christ cared for the Pharisees. He took on flesh, came to earth and into this world we are in, and spoke to them and tried to explain the problem they had and the mistake they were making, but they would not even listen to Him then. They reject what He was telling them. They reject the same message today. If you know the Lord, and He is a person, then you hear the words He "has spoken to you" personally. And you will know Him and Him you. You will know that those words He personally speaks to you are spirit and are life. The words written in the Bible are good for reading, study, reproof, training, and more, but they don't give life. They are not the words personally spoken to you! Searching the Scriptures will not save you.

I rejoice in people like Rick Joyner, who hear the word of the Lord spoken to them. He is by no means along, nor do we follow Rick. We follow the One who personally speaks to us and who we hear from. He is awesome. We can tell people things He personally told us. He once told me:

"Karl, you didn't make me and awesome God, but you can make me an awesome God"

You can tell people about Him, and thus make Him and awesome God --- so awesome that He will personall talk to you, a speck of dust on a speck of dust, going around a speck of dust in a galaxy that is like a speck to Him. Yet He will still talk to you like a friend if you care to believe in Him!

 

[K2K]

If you don't know the Lord you are not going to understand, or even like people who do know the Lord. You are not going to understand and are going to doubt anyone saying that get visions from the Lord. You are going to be skeptical about all that. So people regularly don't like people like Rick Joyner, but not him only, but any like him also. Why were the prophets of old persecuted? There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I wrote a simple paragraph and you reply with circular, self-congratulatory jangling. Don't think you have eternal life in those Scriptures, but maybe you can REALLY find it here in the things Jesus told Karl?

No.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

There is nothing new under the sun.

You can say that again!

 

[K2K]

I wrote a simple paragraph and you reply with circular, self-congratulatory jangling. Don't think you have eternal life in those Scriptures, but maybe you can REALLY find it here in the things Jesus told Karl?

No.

I've been telling people (you) that they need to seek the Lord and what He has to say to them personally!

That means it is not "circular" but pointing directly to Jesus Christ.

It also means that it is not "self-congratulatory", because I am not point people to me but to Him.

A person writing that follow the Scriptures mean that they follow their interpretation of it, because the Scriptures do not interpret themselves, because they are not alive. The Holy Spirit is alive and can speak to your spirit. So He can interpret the Scriptures for you. But He doesn't speak on His own initiative, but rather He speaks what He hears and in this way (like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ) brings us the words of God, which specifically belong to the Son. All things the Father has belong to the Son, which would include the very words of God, which the Spirit speaks to you spirit.

So the person preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Son is the one being "self-congratulatory"

And concerning finding eternal life is the things Jesus told Karl; It is clearly written:

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who give life; the words that I have spoken to you .. (and of course that includes me, Karl).. are spirit and are life.

So indeed, I REALLY can and do find life in the words the Spirit directly speaks to me. The Lord did not lie. He also said to some "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

And that is the problem many are having today. They are searching the Scriptures for eternal life, but are not seeking the Lord Jesus Christ. It shows up when people write that they "follow the Bible", when they should be following the Lord Jesus Christ like is explained in the Bible. So they read the Bible, but they don't believe it. If they had believed the Bible they would have sought the Lord, heard His Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit, understood, listened, and have come to personally know Jesus Christ.

This thread was on Rick Joyner. He knows the Lord Jesus Christ, and testifies as such in his writings. He testifies about the visions he gets from the Holy Spirit. He is like we all need to be, but he is not alone in that, and we don't follow him, but we are like him in that we also seek the Lord Jesus Christ, just like is written in the Bible.

If a person is upset with Rick Joyner, they should ask themselves why. If they are saying that he doesn't match up with what is written in the Scriptures, they need to specifically talk to the Lord Jesus Christ on that. It could be that their thinking doesn't match up with the Scriptures. Again, the interpretation comes from the Spirit and not their mind!!

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I've been telling people (you) that they need to seek the Lord and what He has to say to them personally!

That means it is not "circular" but pointing directly to Jesus Christ.

It also means that it is not "self-congratulatory", because I am not point people to me but to Him.

A person writing that follow the Scriptures mean that they follow their interpretation of it, because the Scriptures do not interpret themselves, because they are not alive. The Holy Spirit is alive and can speak to your spirit. So He can interpret the Scriptures for you. But He doesn't speak on His own initiative, but rather He speaks what He hears and in this way (like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ) brings us the words of God, which specifically belong to the Son. All things the Father has belong to the Son, which would include the very words of God, which the Spirit speaks to you spirit.

So the person preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Son is the one being "self-congratulatory"

And concerning finding eternal life is the things Jesus told Karl; It is clearly written:

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who give life; the words that I have spoken to you .. (and of course that includes me, Karl).. are spirit and are life.

So indeed, I REALLY can and do find life in the words the Spirit directly speaks to me. The Lord did not lie. He also said to some "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

And that is the problem many are having today. They are searching the Scriptures for eternal life, but are not seeking the Lord Jesus Christ. It shows up when people write that they "follow the Bible", when they should be following the Lord Jesus Christ like is explained in the Bible. So they read the Bible, but they don't believe it. If they had believed the Bible they would have sought the Lord, heard His Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit, understood, listened, and have come to personally know Jesus Christ.

This thread was on Rick Joyner. He knows the Lord Jesus Christ, and testifies as such in his writings. He testifies about the visions he gets from the Holy Spirit. He is like we all need to be, but he is not alone in that, and we don't follow him, but we are like him in that we also seek the Lord Jesus Christ, just like is written in the Bible.

If a person is upset with Rick Joyner, they should ask themselves why. If they are saying that he doesn't match up with what is written in the Scriptures, they need to specifically talk to the Lord Jesus Christ on that. It could be that their thinking doesn't match up with the Scriptures. Again, the interpretation comes from the Spirit and not their mind!!

I appreciate the reply.

I find the Lord's use of Scripture to have marvelous divine power, where he works in our inner man by the Spirit. You continue to quote John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life" but as I said previously, we here are not hardened Jews who reject Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life. We have been saved by "hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness".

A free gift. We can grow in our relationship (and should), but even if a person never hears what you hear and yet believes...they DO know the Lord. The Lord was not speaking directly to Gentiles in his earthly ministry, so everything he said has to be weighed in light of his subsequent call of Paul and the teaching He gave THERE for us gentiles. That mitigates against your use of his words to suggest there is a special way of hearing him other than through the word HE wanted communicated through his chosen servant. I don't find any evidence of a need to "hear" messages such as you do in Paul. Now, HE heard messages for sure! Then he communicated them to us as truths to be BELIEVED.

Yes, I do hear from the Lord. I don't hear it in the style you do, and mostly in Scripture and that voice does tell me "I love you" and lifts my spirit by the Spirit, and works within me to will and to do according to his good pleasure. He speaks to me in nature, books, film, music, etc., but that is illuminated and guided by His word too. I find that miraculous and amazing. He has been pointing to his own written words for millennia (through his servants and his Son), so let's not take one saying of Jesus to unbelievers and tease it out to mean that those who love Scripture are like them. They are not. We love it because it is FROM Him and is music to our ears (vs. anathema to theirs).

As for Rick Joyner, I do not know him. What I looked up on him raised some red flags doctrinally. Knowing him personally might clear that up.

K2K, have a blessed weekend!

 

[DennisTate]

The Bible explain that His sheep hear His voice. The Bible explains that we would get dreams and visions. There is also something written about Jesus telling the Jews they were searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of coming to Him, and He also explained that His words are spirit and are life.

The first words the Lord told me were "Read Your Bible" and I noticed all the above in it. How could anyone not? So I expect Christians to get dreams, visions, and hear the voice of the Lord. How could they not? Are they searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have life, like the Jews who hung Jesus Christ on a piece of wood. Paper is made of wood. The Bible is made of paper, but His words are spirit.

Now the Lord specifically lead me to "The Final Quest" after I finished reading the Bible for the first time. It was an extremely useful book to me at that time. It plainly showed that there were people who got visions and dreams, and people who did hear His voice, just like it was written in the Bible, which I had just read completely through.

Now, I read and enjoyed some of Rick Joyner' other books and writings, but I don't much anymore. They are still good, they still have purpose, but the purpose for their writing is to help bring people into a closer relationship with the Lord for themselves. It is not that anyone should know God through Rick Joyner but that they should know the Lord like Rick Joyner. Early on I was still trying to get there, so his books were very helpful.

Now I get up in the morning and the Lord talks to Me. Sometimes He gives me a dream for me, before I get up and then He talks to me about that dream. He might give me a vision, and talk to me about it during the day. Mostly, we just talk. He often tells me He want me seeing with my spiritual eyes more during the day, and He often sends me angels to minister to me. God still uses things written by others, including the Bible, but if anyone is thinking it is about knowing the writings instead of knowing the Lord, they missed the point of the prophets who wrote the Bible and even the prophets sent today that say the same thing. You need to know the Lord - that's what Moses, Isaiah, Paul, and Joyner have all been telling you. If someone really knows the Lord they would know that.

Thank you for this.......
I do feel guided... but I know I have a long way to go yet.

 

[DennisTate]

I've been telling people (you) that they need to seek the Lord and what He has to say to them personally!

That means it is not "circular" but pointing directly to Jesus Christ.

It also means that it is not "self-congratulatory", because I am not point people to me but to Him.

A person writing that follow the Scriptures mean that they follow their interpretation of it, because the Scriptures do not interpret themselves, because they are not alive. The Holy Spirit is alive and can speak to your spirit. So He can interpret the Scriptures for you. But He doesn't speak on His own initiative, but rather He speaks what He hears and in this way (like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ) brings us the words of God, which specifically belong to the Son. All things the Father has belong to the Son, which would include the very words of God, which the Spirit speaks to you spirit.

So the person preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Son is the one being "self-congratulatory"

And concerning finding eternal life is the things Jesus told Karl; It is clearly written:

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who give life; the words that I have spoken to you .. (and of course that includes me, Karl).. are spirit and are life.

So indeed, I REALLY can and do find life in the words the Spirit directly speaks to me. The Lord did not lie. He also said to some "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

And that is the problem many are having today. They are searching the Scriptures for eternal life, but are not seeking the Lord Jesus Christ. It shows up when people write that they "follow the Bible", when they should be following the Lord Jesus Christ like is explained in the Bible. So they read the Bible, but they don't believe it. If they had believed the Bible they would have sought the Lord, heard His Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit, understood, listened, and have come to personally know Jesus Christ.

This thread was on Rick Joyner. He knows the Lord Jesus Christ, and testifies as such in his writings. He testifies about the visions he gets from the Holy Spirit. He is like we all need to be, but he is not alone in that, and we don't follow him, but we are like him in that we also seek the Lord Jesus Christ, just like is written in the Bible.

If a person is upset with Rick Joyner, they should ask themselves why. If they are saying that he doesn't match up with what is written in the Scriptures, they need to specifically talk to the Lord Jesus Christ on that. It could be that their thinking doesn't match up with the Scriptures. Again, the interpretation comes from the Spirit and not their mind!!

Thank you for this......
I found that reading and listening to his books helped me to come to a deeper level of personal commitment and guidance by the Holy Spirit. But I know I have a long way to go yet.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible who died on the cross for us. People who believe in the counterfeit Jesus are deceived and believe another gospel, and therefore not on the narrow way of righteousness in Christ.

 

[DennisTate]

Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible who died on the cross for us. People who believe in the counterfeit Jesus are deceived and believe another gospel, and therefore not on the narrow way of righteousness in Christ.

That is one possibility.........
another way of looking at this would be to think that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was actually telling the truth when he stated:

John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

One example of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified immortal form speaking plainly to people at this time could be the Life Review given to former Skeptic Howard Storm. Another possible example though would the the visionary dreams of Pastor Rick Joyner because they sure do have something of a similar flavour to them.

 

[DennisTate]

The way that Howard Storm is humbled... during his Life Review sure does remind me of promises in Isaiah as well as the statements in the Christian Bible about:

John 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

3. The Life Review of Howard Storm

....

I could feel their feelings of sorrow and suffering, or joy, as my life's review unfolded. They didn't say that something was bad or good, but I could feel it. And I could sense all those things they were indifferent to. They didn't, for example, look down on my high school shot-put record. They just didn't feel anything towards it, nor towards other things which I had taken so much pride in.



What they responded to was how I had interacted with other people. That was the long and short of it. Unfortunately, most of my interactions with other people didn't measure up with how I should have interacted, which was in a loving way. Whenever I did react during my life in a loving way they rejoiced.

Most of the time I found that my interactions with other people had been manipulative. During my professional career, for example, I saw myself sitting in my office, playing the college professor, while a student came to me with a personal problem. I sat there looking compassionate, and patient, and loving, while inside I was bored to death. I would check my watch under my desk as I anxiously waited for the student to finish.

I got to go through all those kinds of experiences in the company of these magnificent beings.



When I was a teenager my father's career put him into a high-stress, twelve-hour-a-day job. Out of my resentment because of his neglect of me, when he came home from work, I would be cold and indifferent toward him. This made him angry, and it gave me further excuse to feel hatred toward him. He and I fought, and my mother would get upset. Most of my life I had felt that my father was the villain and I was the victim. When we reviewed my life I got to see how I had precipitated so much of that, myself. Instead of greeting him happily at the end of a day, I was continually putting thorns in him in order to justify my hurt.



I got to see when my sister had a bad night one night, how I went into her bedroom and put my arms around her. Not saying anything, I just lay there with my arms around her. As it turned out that experience was one of the biggest triumphs of my life.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is one possibility.........
another way of looking at this would be to think that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was actually telling the truth when he stated:

John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

One example of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified immortal form speaking plainly to people at this time could be the Life Review given to former Skeptic Howard Storm. Another possible example though would the the visionary dreams of Pastor Rick Joyner because they sure do have something of a similar flavour to them.

The test of Rick Joyner's foundation would be what would be the intention of his preaching and writing. If his teaching is to point to the Jesus of the Bible who died on the cross for us and that He is the bread of life to us. If his preaching is mainly to satisfy people's temporal needs and benefits, such as healing, prosperity, self-spirituality, personal fulfillment and just giving lip service to that which is eternal, then his teaching is false, because he is just preaching a gospel that consists in getting personal desires and demanding that God gives them.

 

[DennisTate]

The test of Rick Joyner's foundation would be what would be the intention of his preaching and writing. If his teaching is to point to the Jesus of the Bible who died on the cross for us and that He is the bread of life to us. If his preaching is mainly to satisfy people's temporal needs and benefits, such as healing, prosperity, self-spirituality, personal fulfillment and just giving lip service to that which is eternal, then his teaching is false, because he is just preaching a gospel that consists in getting personal desires and demanding that God gives them.

If I ever had some sort of visionary dream like Pastor Rick reports having had..........
I think that I would be kind of blown away by it..... and like him..... I think I would write it down and perhaps later on show it to somebody else much as Mr. Mark Taylor was shown some things which he later showed to his doctor and his doctor's wife.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If I ever had some sort of visionary dream like Pastor Rick reports having had..........
I think that I would be kind of blown away by it..... and like him..... I think I would write it down and perhaps later on show it to somebody else much as Mr. Mark Taylor was shown some things which he later showed to his doctor and his doctor's wife.

If that visionary dream, remarkable as it is, does not centre around the Person of Christ, who is all in all, then it is following another path which will not lead to eternal life.

 

[DennisTate]

If that visionary dream, remarkable as it is, does not centre around the Person of Christ, who is all in all, then it is following another path which will not lead to eternal life.

Yes...... and many professional Christians may be turned away from his writings by one error...... because Messiah Yeshua - Jesus told him specifically that his own fingerprints would be on his writings........ That there would be error in what he writes.........

but it would still inspire many to change greatly.

Could there be gems in heaven that can give us a message?

Rick Joyner, The Final Quest:

Grace and Truth

I turned away from the door and retreated fast. There was a beautiful red stone nearby, which I almost lunged at to lay my hands on it. Immediately I was in the Garden of Gethsemane beholding the Lord in prayer. The agony I beheld was even more terrible than the door I had just seen. Shocked, I jerked my hand away from the stone and fell to the floor in exhaustion. I badly wanted to return to the blue or green stones, but I had to re-gather my energy and sense of direction. The angels were quickly all around me serving me. I was given a drink that began to revive me. Soon I was feeling well enough to stand and begin walking back to the other stones. However, the recurring vision of the Lord praying compelled me to stop.

"What was that back there?" I asked.

"When you touch the stones we are able to see a little of what you see, and feel a little of what you feel," said the angel. "We know that all of these stones are great treasures, and all of the revelations they contain are priceless. We beheld for a moment the agony of the Lord before His crucifixion, and we felt briefly what He felt that terrible night. It is hard for us to understand how our God could ever suffer like that. It makes us appreciate much more what an honor it is to serve you whom He did it for."
......
......
......
"Now I must go back to the red stone. I know now that is the greatest treasure in this room, and I must not leave until I am carrying that treasure in my heart," I said with more resolution in my words than I felt in my heart at that time, but I nevertheless knew that it was true."



The Truth of Grace

The time that I spent at the red stone was the most painful that I have ever experienced. Many times I simply could not take any more but had to withdraw my hand. Several times I went back to the blue or green stones to rejuvenate my soul before I returned. It was extremely hard to return to the red stone each time, but my love and appreciation for the Lord was growing through this more than anything I had ever learned or experienced.

Finally, when the presence of the Father departed from Jesus on the cross, I could not stand it anymore. I quit. I could tell that the angels, who were also experiencing what I was, were in full agreement. The willpower to touch the stone again simply was not in me anymore. I did not even feel like going back to the blue stone. I just laid on the floor weeping over what the Lord had gone through. I also wept because I knew that I had deserted Him just like His disciples. I failed Him when He needed me the most, just like they did.

After what seemed like several days, I opened my eyes. Another eagle was standing beside me. In front of him were three stones, one blue, one green, and one red. "Eat them," he said. When I did, my whole being was renewed, and both a great joy and great soberness flooded my soul.

When I stood up, I caught sight of the same three stones set into the handle of my sword, and then on each of my shoulders. "These are now yours forever," the eagle said. "They cannot be taken from you, and you cannot lose them."

"But I did not finish this last one," I protested.

"Christ alone will ever finish that test," he replied. "You have done well, but you must go on now."

"Where to?" I asked.

"You must decide, but with time getting shorter I will suggest that you try to get to the top soon," the eagle replied as he departed in an obvious hurry.

It is difficult for me to imagine Rick Joyner just simply making things up with such amazing insight????

 

[K2K]

Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible who died on the cross for us. People who believe in the counterfeit Jesus are deceived and believe another gospel, and therefore not on the narrow way of righteousness in Christ.

Jesus explained that He did not judge, but as He heard He judged! Jesus also said He did and said only what the Father told Him. Also, Jesus prayed that we would be one with Him like He was One with the Father.

When a person is searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of seeking Jesus Christ as their Lord, it shows in what they say. Your study of the Bible, your listening to others, your thinking and you consideration, might all give you a clue that something is wrong, but it is not yours to judge. You need to judge as you hear from God. Have you not read that the Spirit testifies?

Jesus is not in the Bible, but is on the throne at the right hand of the Father. And we can hear directly from Him via the Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit. That is what the Bible explains.

So if someone writes, "Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus", it should ring an alarm bell, because Jesus is not in the Scriptures! He is in the Kingdom of God which is in our midst. Yes, Jesus the Christ took on flesh and died on the cross, but He rose again. He is alive. He is he living and active Word of God. He talks to us, so we know that He is alive.

Now this is all explained in the Bible

Rm 10: 1-4 my heart's desire...is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Paul wrote to a people who studied the Scriptures and who were zealous for God, but they didn't know Him!! So they didn't seek Him, but leaned on their own understanding, instead of seeking Jesus Christ and what His Spirit was saying to their spirit.

Rm 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is to bring Christ down)

Those people Paul wrote to were saying in their heart that the Christ was in a far off place called heaven. So they thought that He couldn't be heard from. He has left them with writings, and missed the fact that Moses had told them specifically that the Word was near them. They had that problem during Moses's time. They had that problem when Christ was in the flesh in front of them. They had that problem with Paul. They have that problem today. And the mistake is to think it is the Jews! It is a problem people, and God kept the Scriptures around because "people" have that problem. Have you not read that we are grafted into the Jewish root. The message (Scriptures) is meant for people both then and now.

Rm 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"...

Paul wrote "what does it say" because Moses had told them that very thing, and not Moses only. The Prophets also. And it was recorded in the Scriptures, even at Paul's time. So what does it say?

Duet 8:19,20 I testify against you today that you shall surely perish, Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

Duet 30:14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Zep 3:17 The Lord your God is in your midst

It is not the Scriptures that are in you midst, that you find in your mouth and in your heart, it is the Spirit of God. The One hooks your spirit up with Jesus Christ because He does not speak on His own initiative but He takes from the Lords and speaks those words to your spirit, so that you find the word of God (Jesus Christ) in your heart and on your lips.

Jn 16:13-15 But when He, the Spirit of truth... [and you read that Jesus was the Truth, right?] … comes, He will guide you into all truth … [So why do you keep saying the Bible guides you into all truth?] … for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak [you probably have a phone which does not speak in it's own initiative, and when you listen do you say I was talking to the phone or do you say you were talking to you friend? Is Jesus Christ your friend?]
… He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things the Father has are Mine …. [All things, would include the very words of God] So the Spirit takes the words of God, which belong to the Son, and speaks them to your spirit. So you find those words in your spirit on your lips or in your heart. That is how we pick up things in our spirit. And we say truthfully, that we personally know Jesus Christ because we communicate with Him back and forth via the Spirit of God/

Yet still some say Jesus is not outside of the Bible, and that the Bible is the Word of God, and that He died on the cross, but they don't know He lives, He lives, He lives inside of Me. He walks with Me, He talks with Me,.... You would have thought that perhaps they at least heard what songs that those who know Him sing. He is an awesome God and is an awesome God today who lives in Me. He said he would never leave me, and He didn't lie.

They indeed, have a zeal for Him but it is not based upon knowing Him. My Lord Jesus Christ is my Lord because He tells me wonderful things to do. A while ago He had me read "The Final Quest", by Rick Joyner, and it was clear from both the testimony my Lord Jesus Christ gave me, and by the very writings that Rick Joyner wrote, that He knew My Lord. He got visions from My Lord. That was clear. And while I never attended anything of his ministry, I did get some music from the Morning Star ministry. It was clear that they knew my Lord Jesus Christ. The said in the music, that you have to know Him (Jesus Christ) and they obviously did.

So what of the person that says "I am going to follow the Bible'. Haven't they denied knowing the Lord by their own statements? When they write "Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus", didn't they read that Abraham discovered the Lord and knew the Lord, but did not have the Bible? How did Moses come to know the Lord without the Bible. What did the prophets of old mean when the said the word of the Lord came to them saying? It's wasn't that someone brought them Scriptures. They are right when the write that God has not changed, but they misunderstand all that was written. Because God has not changed he still talks to people today, and He is found in your heart and on your lips, not in your Bible. He might and does talk to you about the Bible. Have they never heard Him tell them to open up to this chapter or that verse, there by proving He is not in their Bible?

So are they not just like those written to by Moses, the prophets of Old, and the authors of the New Testament? With their ears they don't hear, with their eyes they don't see, so they don't turn back to Jesus Christ, but instead they say they will find the words they need in their Bible. Because they don't listen the lines upon lines of text have become the word of the Lord to them. They don't know Jesus Christ as the Word of God. But like Paul, but heart goes out to them. I write and I write, and only wish they would seek the Lord Jesus Christ and put their efforts into know Him.

People - Jesus Christ said that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone [that could even be those people who have been seeking the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life] would hear His voice and open the door, He will come into them.... (Rev 3:20)

If you don't know Jesus Christ personally, you need to!! If you do know Jesus Christ you hear His voice. By hearing His voice (which again is the Spirit of God speaking to your spirit) then you will know that He is alive and active. That He personally has words for you. You might get those words in a vision like Abraham and Rick Joyner.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a visions saying...

You might pick them up in a dream. You can pick up His words while reading your Bible. I you can hear them at the store or while driving, or in the shower, or any other time.

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it." whenever you turn to the right or to the left."

This happens because He did what He said: Joel 2:28 … I will pour out My spirit on all mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dreams dreams, Your young men will see vision.

So it happened just like was written, but still some say that you must only find Jesus Christ in the Bible, and they can't understand that they don't know Him.

Yes, the Spirit of God is not the only spirit. You should test the spirits - see 1 Jn 4:1-3. You should be using that test as instructed. But to use that test you must first be able to hear with your spiritual ears and know that Christ is not in your Bible but is on the throne in the Kingdom of God which is in your midst. And you need to practice hearing and using your spiritual senses to sharpen you abilty to discern between good and evil. - see Hebrews 5:14

People would indeed seek the Lord and His voice if they indeed believed in the Bible. But they don't believe the very writting they have put their faith in. They are just like those who Jesus spoke to.

Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

They can't believe His words, because they don't believe what people like Moses wrote. So with their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see. They say they will follow the Bible. They preach the Bible. They have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. They just don't know Him. They don't understand that the word of God with preach is in your heart and on your lips. So they proclain the sacred writing, the Holy Bilbe, the very words that God spoke to the prophets of old are the word of God they have and go by. If they only knew Jesus Christ personally, they would know that He will today, speak to them personally!!! TODAY, is a very important day for them. TODAY, is the day they can personally hear from the Lord their God. TODAY, was and is the day to get to know your Lord. Today, was the day the authors of the Bible were telling them about.

Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today" , saying through David after so long at time just as been said before, "Today IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active...

Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called "THE WORD OF GOD".

It is bad enough that they don't listen to Him and seek His voice, but they tell people He died on the cross, so He is either dead or in a far off place called heaven. They despise those who get visions and words from Him and proclaim Him to be live and active. They write the bible is alive and active because they don't know Him. And there is nothing new under the sun. And they don't test the spirits and can't because with their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see.

 

[K2K]

I tend to write too long. Let me make this short. We all can get to personally know Jesus Christ, via the Spirit of God. So you can get visions, dreams, and walk and talk back and forth with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because it is with the Spirit of God talking to our spirit, it is not as easy as hearing a person speaking sound waves. Also a relationship with God, like a relationship with any other person, is something that is developed over time. So a new believer, or someone not putting a lot of time into listening to the Lord might have more trouble hearing from Him. That does not mean they don't know Him, but are getting to know Him. All those who call on the name of the Lord are saved. Calling on His name means or should, that you are seeking to hear from Him. Seeking the Bible is not calling on Him.

 

[K2K]

I tend to write too long. Let me make this short. We all can get to personally know Jesus Christ, via the Spirit of God. So you can get visions, dreams, and walk and talk back and forth with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because it is with the Spirit of God talking to our spirit, it is not as easy as hearing a person speaking sound waves. Also a relationship with God, like a relationship with any other person, is something that is developed over time. So a new believer, or someone not putting a lot of time into listening to the Lord might have more trouble hearing from Him. That does not mean they don't know Him, but are getting to know Him. All those who call on the name of the Lord are saved. Calling on His name means, or should, that you are seeking to hear from Him. Seeking the Bible is not calling on Him. There is a difference between actually calling on our Lord Jesus Christ and trying to hear from Him, and thinking reading the Bible is seeking Him.

Read the Bible, it tells you to seek Him. He does talk to you!

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord." There are some that have that backwards. Rick Joyner, from what I read is not one of those.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yes...... and many professional Christians may be turned away from his writings by one error...... because Messiah Yeshua - Jesus told him specifically that his own fingerprints would be on his writings........ That there would be error in what he writes.........

but it would still inspire many to change greatly.

Could there be gems in heaven that can give us a message?

It is difficult for me to imagine Rick Joyner just simply making things up with such amazing insight????

The problem is that he is ascribing the Lord's authority on his writing, which is equal to Scripture. In effect he is writing Scripture and is saying that if Christians reject it, they will be doing so in error.

But the complete inspired Scripture is in the Bible and is not to be added to. So, any entity purporting to be Jesus coming and saying that a fellow's writing "has my finger on it", cannot be Jesus, because He would not contradict what is written in Proverbs 30:6 which has the instruction" "Do not add to my words".

No doubt that many reading his book would marvel at his "amazing insights", but who is that pointing to? It seems that it is glorifying Rick Joyner for his "amazing insights", rather than the Biblical Jesus, who is our wonderful Saviour!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Jesus explained that He did not judge, but as He heard He judged! Jesus also said He did and said only what the Father told Him. Also, Jesus prayed that we would be one with Him like He was One with the Father.

When a person is searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of seeking Jesus Christ as their Lord, it shows in what they say. Your study of the Bible, your listening to others, your thinking and you consideration, might all give you a clue that something is wrong, but it is not yours to judge. You need to judge as you hear from God. Have you not read that the Spirit testifies?

The judging that Jesus spoke about is making personal judgments about the motives and actions of individuals. But when it comes to people standing up and saying they have heard from Jesus who has told them certain things, we are instructed to judge what is said and to evaluate it according to what is said and taught in written Scripture. False teachers who teach heresy will twist the words of Jesus to try and prevent others from examining their teaching and to expose their error.

Jesus is not in the Bible, but is on the throne at the right hand of the Father. And we can hear directly from Him via the Holy Spirit speaking to our spirit. That is what the Bible explains.

Jesus will never contradict what has already been inspired by the Holy Spirit in the pages of written Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit who inspired the written Bible and He will ever contradict Himself!

So if someone writes, "Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus", it should ring an alarm bell, because Jesus is not in the Scriptures! He is in the Kingdom of God which is in our midst. Yes, Jesus the Christ took on flesh and died on the cross, but He rose again. He is alive. He is he living and active Word of God. He talks to us, so we know that He is alive.

If you are listening to a voice purporting to be Jesus that is telling you to ignore the Bible and to believe what it is saying, even though it may be contradicting the Bible, then you are listening to a voice that does not come from Jesus at all.

Now this is all explained in the Bible

Rm 10: 1-4 my heart's desire...is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

There is no mention of anyone studying the Scriptures in this verse. He is talking about those who are following the Law in order to be justified by God.

Paul wrote to a people who studied the Scriptures and who were zealous for God, but they didn't know Him!! So they didn't seek Him, but leaned on their own understanding, instead of seeking Jesus Christ and what His Spirit was saying to their spirit.

As I said, the verse you quoted doesn't mention the Scriptures at all. Also, what you are saying is that the Bereans, when they heard the teachings of Paul, searched the Scriptures daily to so if these things are so, are wrong and that they should have listened to a voice which they should have recognised as Jesus?

Rm 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is to bring Christ down)

Those people Paul wrote to were saying in their heart that the Christ was in a far off place called heaven. So they thought that He couldn't be heard from. He has left them with writings, and missed the fact that Moses had told them specifically that the Word was near them. They had that problem during Moses's time. They had that problem when Christ was in the flesh in front of them. They had that problem with Paul. They have that problem today. And the mistake is to think it is the Jews! It is a problem people, and God kept the Scriptures around because "people" have that problem. Have you not read that we are grafted into the Jewish root. The message (Scriptures) is meant for people both then and now.

If you are hearing a voice that tells you not to have confidence in the written Scriptures, then that voice is not coming from Jesus but from a lying spirit.

Rm 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"...

Paul wrote "what does it say" because Moses had told them that very thing, and not Moses only. The Prophets also. And it was recorded in the Scriptures, even at Paul's time. So what does it say?

Duet 8:19,20 I testify against you today that you shall surely perish, Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

You are mixing Old Covenant and New Covenant and twisting Scripture to make your point. You are saying that one must listen to the voice of God rather than consult Scripture and yet you trying to use Scripture to prove your point! How does that work?

Duet 30:14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Zep 3:17 The Lord your God is in your midst

It is not the Scriptures that are in you midst, that you find in your mouth and in your heart, it is the Spirit of God. The One hooks your spirit up with Jesus Christ because He does not speak on His own initiative but He takes from the Lords and speaks those words to your spirit, so that you find the word of God (Jesus Christ) in your heart and on your lips.

This speaks of the Holy Spirit indwelling us, giving us insight into the Scriptures He has already inspired. He will never contradict what He has already inspired.

Jn 16:13-15 But when He, the Spirit of truth... [and you read that Jesus was the Truth, right?] … comes, He will guide you into all truth … [So why do you keep saying the Bible guides you into all truth?] … for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak [you probably have a phone which does not speak in it's own initiative, and when you listen do you say I was talking to the phone or do you say you were talking to you friend? Is Jesus Christ your friend?]
… He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things the Father has are Mine …. [All things, would include the very words of God] So the Spirit takes the words of God, which belong to the Son, and speaks them to your spirit. So you find those words in your spirit on your lips or in your heart. That is how we pick up things in our spirit. And we say truthfully, that we personally know Jesus Christ because we communicate with Him back and forth via the Spirit of God/

The Holy Spirit gave inspiration to Paul, Peter, John and Jude who wrote it all down in their letters. He is not going to add to what He has revealed to His Apostles through any voice or anything else.

Yet still some say Jesus is not outside of the Bible, and that the Bible is the Word of God, and that He died on the cross, but they don't know He lives, He lives, He lives inside of Me. He walks with Me, He talks with Me,.... You would have thought that perhaps they at least heard what songs that those who know Him sing. He is an awesome God and is an awesome God today who lives in Me. He said he would never leave me, and He didn't lie.

They indeed, have a zeal for Him but it is not based upon knowing Him. My Lord Jesus Christ is my Lord because He tells me wonderful things to do. A while ago He had me read "The Final Quest", by Rick Joyner, and it was clear from both the testimony my Lord Jesus Christ gave me, and by the very writings that Rick Joyner wrote, that He knew My Lord. He got visions from My Lord. That was clear. And while I never attended anything of his ministry, I did get some music from the Morning Star ministry. It was clear that they knew my Lord Jesus Christ. The said in the music, that you have to know Him (Jesus Christ) and they obviously did.

So what of the person that says "I am going to follow the Bible'. Haven't they denied knowing the Lord by their own statements? When they write "Any discovery of a Jesus outside of the written Scriptures is a counterfeit Jesus", didn't they read that Abraham discovered the Lord and knew the Lord, but did not have the Bible? How did Moses come to know the Lord without the Bible. What did the prophets of old mean when the said the word of the Lord came to them saying? It's wasn't that someone brought them Scriptures. They are right when the write that God has not changed, but they misunderstand all that was written. Because God has not changed he still talks to people today, and He is found in your heart and on your lips, not in your Bible. He might and does talk to you about the Bible. Have they never heard Him tell them to open up to this chapter or that verse, there by proving He is not in their Bible?

So are they not just like those written to by Moses, the prophets of Old, and the authors of the New Testament? With their ears they don't hear, with their eyes they don't see, so they don't turn back to Jesus Christ, but instead they say they will find the words they need in their Bible. Because they don't listen the lines upon lines of text have become the word of the Lord to them. They don't know Jesus Christ as the Word of God. But like Paul, but heart goes out to them. I write and I write, and only wish they would seek the Lord Jesus Christ and put their efforts into know Him.

People - Jesus Christ said that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone [that could even be those people who have been seeking the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life] would hear His voice and open the door, He will come into them.... (Rev 3:20)

If you don't know Jesus Christ personally, you need to!! If you do know Jesus Christ you hear His voice. By hearing His voice (which again is the Spirit of God speaking to your spirit) then you will know that He is alive and active. That He personally has words for you. You might get those words in a vision like Abraham and Rick Joyner.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a visions saying...

You might pick them up in a dream. You can pick up His words while reading your Bible. I you can hear them at the store or while driving, or in the shower, or any other time.

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it." whenever you turn to the right or to the left."

This happens because He did what He said: Joel 2:28 … I will pour out My spirit on all mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dreams dreams, Your young men will see vision.

So it happened just like was written, but still some say that you must only find Jesus Christ in the Bible, and they can't understand that they don't know Him.

Yes, the Spirit of God is not the only spirit. You should test the spirits - see 1 Jn 4:1-3. You should be using that test as instructed. But to use that test you must first be able to hear with your spiritual ears and know that Christ is not in your Bible but is on the throne in the Kingdom of God which is in your midst. And you need to practice hearing and using your spiritual senses to sharpen you abilty to discern between good and evil. - see Hebrews 5:14

People would indeed seek the Lord and His voice if they indeed believed in the Bible. But they don't believe the very writting they have put their faith in. They are just like those who Jesus spoke to.

Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

They can't believe His words, because they don't believe what people like Moses wrote. So with their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see. They say they will follow the Bible. They preach the Bible. They have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. They just don't know Him. They don't understand that the word of God with preach is in your heart and on your lips. So they proclain the sacred writing, the Holy Bilbe, the very words that God spoke to the prophets of old are the word of God they have and go by. If they only knew Jesus Christ personally, they would know that He will today, speak to them personally!!! TODAY, is a very important day for them. TODAY, is the day they can personally hear from the Lord their God. TODAY, was and is the day to get to know your Lord. Today, was the day the authors of the Bible were telling them about.

Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today" , saying through David after so long at time just as been said before, "Today IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active...

Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called "THE WORD OF GOD".

It is bad enough that they don't listen to Him and seek His voice, but they tell people He died on the cross, so He is either dead or in a far off place called heaven. They despise those who get visions and words from Him and proclaim Him to be live and active. They write the bible is alive and active because they don't know Him. And there is nothing new under the sun. And they don't test the spirits and can't because with their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see.

The ones who are in error are those who listen to voices, have dreams, and see visions that steer them away from the written Scriptures and receive information that contradicts what is actually written, or gives extra "revelation" that is not inspired by the Holy Spirit in the Bible.