The Book of Enoch?

[Yekcidmij]

It says it on the link:
(4Q246 Apocryphon of Daniel)

Biblical Archaeology: Exploring The Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q246 Apocryphon of Daniel)

4Q246 - Wikipedia

This isn't the book of Enoch, much less the portion in question (the Book of Parables). Again.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

This isn't the book of Enoch, much less the portion in question (the Book of Parables). Again.

I was showing you it because it was found at The Qumran Caves and Clearly and Plainly makes reference to The Son Of God just like • 1 Enoch 105:1-2 does.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I was showing you it because it was found at The Qumran Caves and Clearly and Plainly makes reference to The Son Of God just like • 1 Enoch 105:1-2 does.

I think I've stated my point rather clearly. You previously said that the book of Enoch was found among the DSS. I say no, not all of it was. The Book of Parables was not found among the DSS. Yet you proceed to argue as if it was, but of course you can't produce the catalog number because it simply doesn't exist. So instead, you point to the Apocryphon of Daniel, and you must be hoping that I will chase your red herring or forget that you don't have the catalog number for the Book of Parables in Enoch - and you don't have this because it doesn't exist - and it doesn't exist because the Book of Parables was not among the DSS finds.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I think I've stated my point rather clearly. You previously said that the book of Enoch was found among the DSS. I say no, not all of it was. The Book of Parables was not found among the DSS. Yet you proceed to argue as if it was, but of course you can't produce the catalog number because it simply doesn't exist. So instead, you point to the Apocryphon of Daniel, and you must be hoping that I will chase your red herring or forget that you don't have the catalog number for the Book of Parables in Enoch - and you don't have this because it doesn't exist - and it doesn't exist because the Book of Parables was not among the DSS finds.

I already explained to you that John Strugnell saw it.

He said it was found in Qumran Cave 11 :

Aramaic Enoch Scroll - Wikipedia

Qumran Caves (BiblePlaces.com)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I think I've stated my point rather clearly. You previously said that the book of Enoch was found among the DSS. I say no, not all of it was. The Book of Parables was not found among the DSS. Yet you proceed to argue as if it was, but of course you can't produce the catalog number because it simply doesn't exist. So instead, you point to the Apocryphon of Daniel, and you must be hoping that I will chase your red herring or forget that you don't have the catalog number for the Book of Parables in Enoch - and you don't have this because it doesn't exist - and it doesn't exist because the Book of Parables was not among the DSS finds.

You are not taking into account that the Son Of Man section of the Book of Enoch is fully intact in the Ethiopian Book of Enoch, and has been in the sacred Scriptures -bible- of the Ethiopians who received the Gospel in the first century, and who were Ethiopian Jews with their own copies of Enoch.
So it is "canon" in the Ethiopian orthodox church. There it is, and has been, since before the gospel of Christ came to Ethiopia.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I already explained to you that John Strugnell saw it.

And I bet you a box of donuts John Strugnell also can't produce a catalog number for manuscripts that the Book of Parables (also, he couldn't produce them because he's dead now, so I'll win the donuts either way). In any case, were he alive, he wouldn't be able to produce them because they don't exist and they don't exist because they weren't among the DSS finds.

Your previous source seems to link back to a random Christianforums thread, on a seemingly unrelated issue, which a user (who still frequents here I believe) cites an unrelated and so irrelevant quote from John Strugnell. Also, the manuscripts are now available and have been digitized since the book cited was published in the early 90's about an issue that ended in about 1991. So, you're about 27 years too late to use this point.

At this point it seems you either have to ignore the facts or appeal to a conspiracy of some sort.

 

[Yekcidmij]

You are not taking into account that the Son Of Man section of the Book of Enoch is fully intact in the Ethiopian Book of Enoch, and has been in the sacred Scriptures -bible- of the Ethiopians who received the Gospel in the first century, and who were Ethiopian Jews with their own copies of Enoch.
So it is "canon" in the Ethiopian orthodox church. There it is, and has been, since before the gospel of Christ came to Ethiopia.

Of course this also doesn't have anything to do with my point. You too can't produce a catalog number for the DSS that have the Book of Parables on the manuscript pages. And you also can't produce them because they don't exist - and they don't exist because the book of Parables was not found among the the DSS.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

And I bet you a box of donuts John Strugnell also can't produce a catalog number for manuscripts that the Book of Parables (also, he couldn't produce them because he's dead now, so I'll win the donuts either way). In any case, were he alive, he wouldn't be able to produce them because they don't exist and they don't exist because they weren't among the DSS finds.

Your previous source seems to link back to a random Christianforums thread, on a seemingly unrelated issue, which a user (who still frequents here I believe) cites an unrelated and so irrelevant quote from John Strugnell. Also, the manuscripts are now available and have been digitized since the book cited was published in the early 90's about an issue that ended in about 1991. So, you're about 27 years too late to use this point.

At this point it seems you either have to ignore the facts or appeal to a conspiracy of some sort.

It IS / HAS Been Suppressed.

You'll see when it all comes to light before The End.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Of course this also doesn't have anything to do with my point. You too can't produce a catalog number for the DSS that have the Book of Parables on the manuscript pages. And you also can't produce them because they don't exist - and they don't exist because the book of Parables was not found among the the DSS.

What is the point of not having a DSS section to point to of the section of "The Son in Man in heaven?
Jesus Himself corroborated that section when he stated that "no man has ascended to heaven but the Son of Man who is in heaven" (-to reign, since we have Sacred Scripture showing that Enoch was raptured, as also Elijah, and then, we have Moses raised in his own "not transformed flesh", and he is in heaven, with Elijah, waiting to return to Jerusalem to be Witnesses to the birth, life, death, resurrection ascension, and glory of Christ.
Enoch, OTOH, is up there transformed, as he said, and ruling with the watcher angels.
There he is in Revelation, showing John everything. John wanted to worship him, twice, and he told John not to do that..., and "I am of your brethren (a human being), and a fellow prophet".

 

[Yekcidmij]

It IS / HAS Been Suppressed.

You'll see when it all comes to light before The End.

Conspiracy it is then. That was a pretty good prediction on my part. It's really the only option you have left other than concession.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Conspiracy it is then. That was a pretty good prediction on my part. It's really the only option you have left other than concession.

You'll see.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It IS / HAS Been Suppressed.
You'll see when it all comes to light before The End.

Enoch stated he wrote it for those who will be living in the last days, when the tribulation is upon earth, and it will be a source of teaching and comfort to those who repent when they see the rapture and are left behind and have to go through the second consummation of sin on earth, which Enoch wrote of, first.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's hard posting from an iPhone. Lots of corrections have to be made.
Gonna save this for when I have time for the computer, now.

 

[Yekcidmij]

What is the point of not having a DSS section to point to of the section of "The Son in Man in heaven?

I thought it was a minor point myself, but since one of the poster's on here keeps arguing it, I must have underestimated it's significance. I think you would just have to say that based on the available evidence the Book of Parables was not part of Enoch, otherwise it would have been among the DSS finds with the rest of the book. Doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the book though. But I have a feeling I underestimated this portion's significance to some users around here because it must have a significant role in some theological system. I dunno though.

I suppose you could opt to say that the Qumran group isn't the authority of what is and isn't in the biblical canon, so you could say that the Book of Parables is scripture even though it wasn't part of the original Book of Enoch. I would simply have to disagree, but it may be more difficult to argue the point since you would appeal to some authoritative method other than the document's originality and/or the Qumran group. Maybe you could say it's scripture because the Ethiopian Church says so, and whatever that Church says is authoritative? I would probably simply verify consistency and ask if you're a member of the Ethiopian Church, and if you were, I probably wouldn't argue further.

 

[Yekcidmij]

You'll see.

I bet a box of donuts I don't. And there will be donuts in the resurrection, so you'll have to pay up.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I would probably simply verify consistency and ask if you're a member of the Ethiopian Church, and if you were, I probably wouldn't argue further.

This is the section where they would be if there are any on the forum :

(Oriental Orthodox)

The Voice In The Desert - Oriental Orthodox

 

[yeshuasavedme]

... Maybe you could say it's scripture because the Ethiopian Church says so, and whatever that Church says is authoritative? I would probably simply verify consistency and ask if you're a member of the Ethiopian Church, and if you were, I probably wouldn't argue further.

Well, better go for one more, then I gotta go.
Scripture means "writing", and the discussion about Enoch is that it is and has been,always. "Sacred writing".
The Ethiopians who turned to the Gospel in the first century were Torah practicing Israelites of the first dispersion. They had Enoch as part of their "Bible" collection of sacred writings.
Bible means collection of books.
They kept it in their "Bible" after they received the Gospel, and not being under Rome, they never cast it out, never banned it.
It is canon in their Bible.

I'm not Roman Catholic, so why would I give the early RC rulers authority over what I consider sacred writing that completely corroborates with what came after it, when Moses wrote?
I do love true history, and do love Enoch because it lays the foundation of all Holy doctrines written by all the prophets who came after.
I have the DSS scrolls translated by several different authors, and find corroboration in them for the book of Enoch, and even more of Enoch's writing, like the book of the Giants.
Moses had it, and read it. Hannah had it, and readit. Abraham had it, and taught from it. Job had it, and understood the passages on The Son of Man as his Kinsman Redeemer who was to come, and who would resurrect his flesh.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

1 Enoch talking about the The Bosom of Abraham (Luke 16:19-31 )


The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is One Separated From The Other?' And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that The Spirits Of The Dead Might Be Separated. And such A Division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits.

• 1 Enoch 22:8-11

Books of Enoch

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I wonder if these verses are referring to The Bride of Christ (The Church) Or The Virgin Mary ?



Wisdom found no place where She might dwell;
Then a dwelling-place was assigned Her in the heavens.

Wisdom went forth to make Her dwelling among the children of men,
And found no dwelling-place:

Wisdom returned to Her place,
And Took Her Seat Among The Angels.

• 1 Enoch 42:1-2


Books of Enoch

 

[Jipsah]

And The Multitude Of Your Sorceries,
In which you have labored from your youth—
Perhaps you will be able to profit,
Perhaps you will prevail.
You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels;
Let now The Astrologers, The Stargazers,
And The Monthly Prognosticators
Stand up and save you
From what shall come upon you.
Behold, They Shall Be As Stubble,
The Fire Shall Burn Them;
They shall not deliver themselves
From The Power Of The Flame;
It shall not be a coal to be warmed by,
Nor a fire to sit before!
• Isaiah 47:12-14

Yep. I couldn't agree more. "Magick" is a fraud perpetrated by the Master Liar his own self. But that doesn't prevent "Enoch" fans from blathering about "Enochian magick", does it? They regard "Enoch" as a key to manipulating spirits and making them do the mage's bidding. Practitioners of "Enochian magic" include such characters as the infamous Aleister Crowley. Bad company to be in, don'tcha reckon?