The best evidence against Evolution

[selfinflikted]

Other then his poor choice of a cow to a whale, just what is your problem with the fact that God has established limits?

You're asking an atheist what my problem with god establishing limits is?

It that not was science does is show just what the limits are? So really the anything goes with no limits attitude of Gould type of evos (post neo darwinism) is just plain unscientific.

Huh?

 

[Split Rock]

In response to the OP, a pesky little thing called genetic limitations. Examples:

A horse and a donkey can be bred..... once. The outcome is a sterile crossbreed. The females are almost always sterile and the male is ALWAYS sterile. There will never be a reproducing population of horse/donkey mixes. This is the end of their genetic limitation.

Dogs and foxes cannot interbreed.

Many creatures that would seem to be very close anotomcally, cannot mingle. There are genetic limitations.

This is called speciation. If this is an example of a "genetic limitation" to evolution it is a poor one. The theory of evolution does not preclude speciation nor the evolution of isolating mechanisms.

Of course, to the evolutionist, a cow can eventually become a whale over "long periods of time" and somehow that's "scientific", but what we see in the real world is that there are limitations on how far an animal can actually go.

In Christ, GB

Nonsense. A cow cannot evolve into a whale. Such an idea is not science, but creationist caricature.

 

[Split Rock]

because it can not be observed or reproduced in a lab.

Wrong. See the Lenski lab's research on E. coli E. coli Long-term Experimental Evolution Project Site

 

[Split Rock]

Sure it can.

Darn it! You beat me to it!!!1111111

 

[Split Rock]

This makes no sense. If there was no modification, there would be no speciation. What do you call a change in enhancers and transcription factors in any case, if not modification? I sense semantics coming up now...

 

[good brother]

As expected by evolution: species split and become genetically distinct, to the extent that cross-breeding, if at all possible, doesn't yield fertile offspring. What was once once species, is now two.

This boils down to a term I am coining called "biological alchemy". As in alchemy, one starts with something less desirable (lead) and desires soemthing far better in the end (gold). Here is where the biological alchemy comes into play. Evolution states that all living organisms came from a single ancestor (lead). The diversity we have all around us today shows that, even though creatures are in the same family and all, they have become so "genetically distinct" that they cannot even produce a hybrid that is fertile. One species is gold, another diamonds, another silver, and another is titanium, never to be transformed back into "lead" again, nor can it be intermingled with another of it's contemporaries.

Biological alchemy.

In Christ, GB

 

[Wiccan_Child]

This boils down to a term I am coining called "biological alchemy". As in alchemy, one starts with something less desirable (lead) and desires soemthing far better in the end (gold). Here is where the biological alchemy comes into play. Evolution states that all living organisms came from a single ancestor (lead). The diversity we have all around us today shows that, even though creatures are in the same family and all, they have become so "genetically distinct" that they cannot even produce a hybrid that is fertile. One species is gold, another diamonds, another silver, and another is titanium, never to be transformed back into "lead" again, nor can it be intermingled with another of it's contemporaries.

Correct.

Biological alchemy.

Known to the rest of the world as 'evolution'. Congratulations on demonstrating your understanding of the basics - it's more than most Creationists can do

 

[Norman321]

You're asking an atheist what my problem with god establishing limits is?

I am asking if you believe in limits? If you say there is no God, is that not a limit? If there were no limits then there is going to be at least a chance that God exists.

“How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, And grieved Him in the desert!
Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.” Psalms 78:40-41 (NKJV)

 

[Norman321]

This makes no sense. If there was no modification, there would be no speciation. What do you call a change in enhancers and transcription factors in any case, if not modification? I sense semantics coming up now...

God created everyone ever their kind. Even evos agree with this, they just use their own way to define kind. For example they say mammals can only produce mammals. A mammal can not produce a reptile.

 

[Norman321]

Darn it! You beat me to it!!!1111111

You start with ecoli you end up with ecoli. No new species has been found, created or discovered. Even after 50,000 generations. You can have descent, you can have modification. There is no descent with modification.

 

[good brother]

Correct.


Known to the rest of the world as 'evolution'. Congratulations on demonstrating your understanding of the basics - it's more than most Creationists can do

So, if I nailed it on biological alchemy, what is your opinion of regular old alchemy? Is/was alchemy a legitimate branch of science?


GB

 

[mzungu]

because it can not be observed or reproduced in a lab.

Oh really? :
http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/06/21/macro-evolution-observed-in-the-laboratory/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OKXTRiMt-8

 

[selfinflikted]

I am asking if you believe in limits?

Yea, sure. Lots of things have limits.

If you say there is no God

It's more correct to say that I don't believe in god(s). But, if you want to put it that way, sure.

is that not a limit?

I don't know what you mean?

If there were no limits then there is going to be at least a chance that God exists.

You, nor anyone else, have ever, or will ever, hear me say that I am certain there is no chance that god(s) exists. (Also, I just realized this is excellent quote mine material). Anyway, I do not believe god(s) exist. Could I be wrong? Of course. It's happened like, 3 times in my life.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

So, if I nailed it on biological alchemy, what is your opinion of regular old alchemy? Is/was alchemy a legitimate branch of science?


GB

About as legit at astrology and tarot reading.

Tell you what, you teach your kids 'biological alchemy' and I'll teach mine biological life science and chemistry.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I am asking if you believe in limits? If you say there is no God, is that not a limit? If there were no limits then there is going to be at least a chance that God exists.

“How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, And grieved Him in the desert!
Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.” Psalms 78:40-41 (NKJV)

You seem to be confused as to what atheist is. Yes, there's a chance god, or Thor, or Isis, or the FSM all exist. The question is, what evidence is there to support these claims. The answer is "none." Atheists are just like you, except we can admit this. I think eternal bliss and party with friends and family would be great, I just don't think there's any evidence for it.

IMO, atheism should be the default position. As in, what do you call people who don't collect stamps?

"Religions, they all can't be right, by they can all be wrong."

Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?" - YouTube

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say your "Best evidence for creationism" thread went downhill because creationists couldn't actually provide any evidence - all they could do is try to discredit evolution.

Am I correct?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say your "Best evidence for creationism" thread went downhill because creationists couldn't actually provide any evidence - all they could do is try to discredit evolution.

Am I correct?

I can't wait to see the answer to this.

 

[Norman321]

Yea, sure. Lots of things have limits.

What establishes the limits: Natural laws? Just where do you think the laws come from that regulate the universe?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

What establishes the limits: Natural laws? Just where do you think the laws come from that regulate the universe?

They come from Dave.

 

[Norman321]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say your "Best evidence for creationism" thread went downhill because creationists couldn't actually provide any evidence - all they could do is try to discredit evolution.

Am I correct?

Evos become good at ignoring the evidence. Because the evidence clearly shows their theory is bogus. You can have modification, you can have descent. But you can not put the two of them together and come up with anything.