The Argument for Universal Reconciliation from the Book of Romans

[Jeff Saunders]

You believe all people are saved. So do I.

I pointed to 1 John 4:7 which says everyone who loves knows God and is born of God

Common sense tells me everyone experiences love, however slight it may be. Therefore there is no 4 step accept Jesus selling pitch for Jesus necessary

I also pointed out that Jesus said God is The Father of all people so no sales pitch for Jesus required. It's just a fact of scripture

I also believe there is a real eternal forever and ever eternal hell/LoF for the devil and his messengers

So even though our end sight at least for people is close to the same, it shows that within Christian universalism there are vastly different views

I specifically refute Satanic salvation, the temporary torture of people, temporary hell for people and devils and the need for Jesus selling that your sect of universalism tries to sell. I believe all your positions arean affront to fundamental Christianity and truthful genuine universalism.

You believe all people are saved. So do I.

I pointed to 1 John 4:7 which says everyone who loves knows God and is born of God

Common sense tells me everyone experiences love, however slight it may be. Therefore there is no 4 step accept Jesus selling pitch for Jesus necessary

I also pointed out that Jesus said God is The Father of all people so no sales pitch for Jesus required. It's just a fact of scripture

I also believe there is a real eternal forever and ever eternal hell/LoF for the devil and his messengers

So even though our end sight at least for people is close to the same, it shows that within Christian universalism there are vastly different views

I specifically refute Satanic salvation, the temporary torture of people, temporary hell for people and devils and the need for Jesus selling that your sect of universalism tries to sell. I believe all your positions arean affront to fundamental Christianity and truthful genuine universalism.

I believe we have to much division in the body of Christ and don’t want to advance that , but we must understand that we don’t all have to agree on everything, so this is my opinion on this subject that has been in the Church debate for a long time. I believe that 1Cor 15:28 when it says “ when all things are subjected to him” That all of Gods creation will be subjected to him including the satanic forces and demons. Not all the early church fathers believed that but some did . Origen- Gregory of Nyssa- Clement of Alexandria and others all believed in this line of thinking, so as far as I am concerned I am following good company.

 

[Der Alte]

You believe all people are saved. So do I.
I pointed to 1 John 4:7 which says everyone who loves knows God and is born of God
Common sense tells me everyone experiences love, however slight it may be. Therefore there is no 4 step accept Jesus selling pitch for Jesus necessary
I also pointed out that Jesus said God is The Father of all people so no sales pitch for Jesus required. It's just a fact of scripture
I also believe there is a real eternal forever and ever eternal hell/LoF for the devil and his messengers
So even though our end sight at least for people is close to the same, it shows that within Christian universalism there are vastly different views
I specifically refute Satanic salvation, the temporary torture of people, temporary hell for people and devils and the need for Jesus selling that your sect of universalism tries to sell. I believe all your positions arean affront to fundamental Christianity and truthful genuine universalism.

Almost anyone can "prove" their chosen belief is correct by quoting selective verses out-of-context. For example, 1 Cor 15:22-26

1 Corinthians 15:22​

(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

(24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.​

(25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.​

(26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.​

Verse 22 is often quoted out-of-context as "proof" that "all mankind shall be made alive in Christ." I wonder how many will realize that here I deliberately misquoted verse 22? Verse 22 does NOT say as some want us to believe "all mankind shall be made alive in Christ."
All mankind is "in Adam" because Adam is the progenitor of all mankind. But all mankind is not inherently "in Christ" unless/until they make an informed choice in this life.
Vs. 23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." This vs. does not say "Christ the firstfruits afterward all mankind" It says "Christ the firstfruits afterwards they that are Christ's at his coming." All mankind will not belong to Christ at His coming. I know of no verse which says that those who are not Christ's at His coming will be saved.

Vss. 24-25. he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.​

"Put down all rule and all authority and power,...put all enemies under His feet"" says nothing about saving them. If all mankind is saved who is the "all rule and all authority, power,...and enemies?" Who are the enemies that are destroyed before death?
Last book, last chapter.
Revelation 22:3
(3) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Revelation 22:5
(5) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:15
(15) For without [outside New Jerusalem] are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:19
(19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I believe we have to much division in the body of Christ and don’t want to advance that , but we must understand that we don’t all have to agree on everything, so this is my opinion on this subject that has been in the Church debate for a long time. I believe that 1Cor 15:28 when it says “ when all things are subjected to him” That all of Gods creation will be subjected to him including the satanic forces and demons. Not all the early church fathers believed that but some did . Origen- Gregory of Nyssa- Clement of Alexandria and others all believed in this line of thinking, so as far as I am concerned I am following good company.

I think it's very odd that supposed universalists promote the temporary torture of our neighbors and satanic salvation

It's just out there

 

[Der Alte]

I think it's very odd that supposed universalists promote the temporary torture of our neighbors and satanic salvation
It's just out there

EOB Matthew 25:40 The King will answer them, ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,” you did it to me.
41 Then, he will also say to those on his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink;
43 was a stranger and you did not receive me; naked, and you did not clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.’
44 Then, they will answer: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since Jesus founded the church.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I think it's very odd that supposed universalists promote the temporary torture of our neighbors and satanic salvation

It's just out there

What do you mean by temporary torture? I believe that those who go into the Lake of Fire are refined till all that is not of God is removed and they see Jesus for who he is clearly and then they will out of free will bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord. How that is done I have no idea, we are not told, what I do know is that God is a loving Father who will not do anything that is not out of love . One idea someone else said and I think it’s good , even if it is speculation, is that each person will have to experience everything that they did to others and through that they will see their mistakes and repent. But like I said it’s all speculation because we are not told how God is going to do it , we must have faith that God is God and however he does it it will be exactly what is needed not too little or too much.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

EOB Matthew 25:40 The King will answer them, ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,” you did it to me.
41 Then, he will also say to those on his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink;
43 was a stranger and you did not receive me; naked, and you did not clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.’
44 Then, they will answer: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since Jesus founded the church.

I have no issues with eternal forever and ever hell in the LoF for the devil and his messengers

Considering we're all tempted internally by our adversary you'd think even we would be happy about their ending

And ignoring their presence in the narrative is blindness

The shocker is, surprise! We all do goat works when we're not doing sheep works

No sense hiding our heads in the sand about the fact of it

 

[Der Alte]

What do you mean by temporary torture? I believe that those who go into the Lake of Fire are refined till all that is not of God is removed and they see Jesus for who he is clearly and then they will out of free will bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Can you provide any scripture to support this?

How that is done I have no idea, we are not told, what I do know is that God is a loving Father who will not do anything that is not out of love . One idea someone else said and I think it’s good , even if it is speculation, is that each person will have to experience everything that they did to others and through that they will see their mistakes and repent. But like I said it’s all speculation because we are not told how God is going to do it , we must have faith that God is God and however he does it it will be exactly what is needed not too little or too much.

Again, no scripture. I have used E-Sword, which is free, for a few decades. One can do word searches and Strong's number searches. I purchased Logos several years ago for the heavy stuff.

 

[Der Alte]

I have no issues with eternal forever and ever hell in the LoF for the devil and his messengers
Considering we're all tempted internally by our adversary you'd think even we would be happy about their ending
And ignoring their presence in the narrative is blindness
The shocker is, surprise! We all do goat works when we're not doing sheep works
No sense hiding our heads in the sand about the fact of it

See my post #202 this thread a few pages back.
Link to Eastern Greek Orthodox New Testament.

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

What do you mean by temporary torture? I believe that those who go into the Lake of Fire are refined till all that is not of God is removed and they see Jesus for who he is clearly and then they will out of free will

IF that were really the case then every person is heading to the LoF. Is this really where you're taking that angle?

bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord. How that is done I have no idea, we are not told,

Exactly. We are not told because there is no such presentation in the entire Bible. Not one named person is given as an example. No, not one.

what I do know is that God is a loving Father who will not do anything that is not out of love . One idea someone else said and I think it’s good , even if it is speculation, is that each person will have to experience everything that they did to others and through that they will see their mistakes and repent.

I've pointed this out prior in many ways. Firstly, sins are not counted against people. So there is no basis for condemning any person. 2 Cor. 5:19

The other thing is, that there is no question that sin is "of the devil." Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8 and many many other scriptures. There is the bad actor. And once out from under their blindness, for all of us really, post death of the flesh, we'll obviously see just fine. Romans 6:7

But like I said it’s all speculation because we are not told how God is going to do it , we must have faith that God is God and however he does it it will be exactly what is needed not too little or too much.

It's not speculation at all. It's a made up package of nonsense. There is no scriptural basis for people going in and coming out of the LoF.

It's nowhere to be seen

 

[JulieB67]

I believe that those who go into the Lake of Fire are refined till all that is not of God is removed and they see Jesus for who he is clearly and then they will out of free will bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord.

That is not free will. You are placing the Lake of Fire (which is indeed the second death -Christ's own words) in Christ's place. That is where we find repentance. He also states fear not the one that can kill the flesh body but destroy (in the Greek -destroy "fully) body and soul in hell. There is not one verse that states the Lake of Fire is anything other than the second death.

You are also taking the power of the second death away when you believe the Lake of Fire is a refinery. And the power of the book of life. Yes, knees will bow and proclaim Jesus is Lord but many will still take part in the deception once again when Satan is released. Apostasy will still be a real thing. The OT has many many examples of turning away from God. Those in the wilderness saw his power firsthand and still turned away and worshipped an idol. And Satan is very deceiving. That's what the gospel armor is for in the end times. And he will deceive once again once he is released.

And the Lake of Fire was prepared for Satan and his angels. Once again, it is not a refinery. It consumes, and will turn the wicked into ashes. And we know anyone not found in the book of life will be thrown in.


Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch."

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of
hosts."

Those that are refined today are refined by the fire of the holy spirit. That is not the Lake of Fire. And refining takes place before Judgement Day and the Lake of Fire.


Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

So we see from these verses above and below not everyone is refined.

Daniel 12:10 "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

Psalms 66:10 "For Thou, O God, hast proved us: Thou hast tried us, as silver is tried."

 

[Der Alte]

I've pointed this out prior in many ways. Firstly, sins are not counted against people. So there is no basis for condemning any person. 2 Cor. 5:19

Let us read this vs. in context.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19​

(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;​

(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

Vs. 19 does NOT refer to the entire sinful world but only those who were reconciled to Him vs. 18

The other thing is, that there is no question that sin is "of the devil." Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8 and many many other scriptures. There is the bad actor. And once out from under their blindness, for all of us really, post death of the flesh, we'll obviously see just fine. Romans 6:7

Standing alone like this is quoting Romans 6:7 is out-of-context
Romans 6:1-8

(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?​

(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?​

(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​

(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.​

(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.​

(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:​

Vs. 7 refers only to those who are dead with Christ vs. 8, not all mankind.

 

[Aaron112]

No end to the stress. No end to the sin. No repentance so no salvation.
ur causes greatly increased sin and suffering and death.
Forums that allow ur and don't ban it suffer a lot from it and because of it.
It results in endless and useless repetition and causes weak in faith to fall and wears out those who may be strong in faith if they try to correct it when it cannot be corrected.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

Let us read this vs. in context.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19​

(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;​

(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

Vs. 19 does NOT refer to the entire sinful world but only those who were reconciled to Him vs. 18

Actually, you didn’t go back far enough. For a more complete context my friend, don’t forget verses 14-16.

”For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.“
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬-‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:14-16 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but | English Standard Version

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but

bible.com

The ones who have believed, are controlled by the love of Christ and have concluded that (see bold txt above). In verse 18 Paul refers to them and himself as “US” and their newness of life in Christ. THEN, he informs of their ministry of reconciliation; to tell the “them‘s” of verse 19, that “their” sins are, just like the current believers, NOT being imputed against them and that their newness of life awaits them. Illustrated as such:

If one has an insurmountable credit card debt that has been paid by someone else that individuals debt IS PAID. PERIOD! Now, if nobody tells them their debt is paid, they may continue to pay on that debt, working themselves to death. They will miss out on the abundant life available to them, living under the weight and burden of their debt. Living their remaining days unaware of the immense love of the One who paid their debt.

Now, someone may tell them their debt has been paid and all they have to do is accept the gift. That the one who paid their debt loves them and that’s why the debt was paid and it cost him his life. Accept the gift and live with him and he with you, but reject the gift and he will burn you in hell and never allow you to die. Wow … what a generous and gracious individual with an offer that no one could possibly want to refuse. Right …

Or, someone could tell them their debt has been paid. The one who paid their debt loves them and that’s why the debt was paid. Paying the debt cost him his life. But that’s not all … not only has he paid your debt but he has a life of value and lasting rewards planned ahead for you. That is a life you don’t want to miss. All he asks is for you to believe in him and that he did what I told you he did. Believe not what I tell you and miss out on something you could never imagine possible! The loss will be great. Also far greater than you can imagine.

One presentation offers the gospel of fear.
One presentation offers the Gospel of Love.

Question. Knowing the FACT that Paul, NEVER … EVER … NO NOT ONCE mentioned or spoke about hell; which presentation do you think he had in mind for their ministry of reconciliation?

Standing alone like this is quoting Romans 6:7 is out-of-context
Romans 6:1-8

(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?​

(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?​

(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​

(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.​

(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.​

(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:​

Vs. 7 refers only to those who are dead with Christ vs. 8, not all mankind.

Agreed. Paul, in this context is limiting his scope of discussion to those who believe.

 

[Aaron112]

A lot of words seem to increase sin. (I believe this is confirmed in Scripture directly.)

Thus the more the ur is defended or promoted, the bigger, longer, more widespread curses result.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Let us read this vs. in context.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19​

(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;​

(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

Vs. 19 does NOT refer to the entire sinful world but only those who were reconciled to Him vs. 18

Standing alone like this is quoting Romans 6:7 is out-of-context
Romans 6:1-8

(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?​

(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?​

(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:​

(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.​

(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.​

(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:​

Vs. 7 refers only to those who are dead with Christ vs. 8, not all mankind.

Do you think citing these scriptures changes or eliminates what they say? OR my statements about these scriptures?

If so, how? Just making claims without content isn't productive exchange

 

[Jeff Saunders]

No end to the stress. No end to the sin. No repentance so no salvation.
ur causes greatly increased sin and suffering and death.
Forums that allow ur and don't ban it suffer a lot from it and because of it.
It results in endless and useless repetition and causes weak in faith to fall and wears out those who may be strong in faith if they try to correct it when it cannot be corrected.

You misunderstand CUR ( Christian Universal Redemption) “ no end to sin “ we are the only ones , besides the conditional immortality, that know that sin will be eliminated once as in 1Cor 15:28 God will be all in all . On the other hand those who believe in ECT , sin and death continue for all eternity, and God has to supernaturally keep all alive and able to feel pain and keep the fire burning for all eternity and have to listen to the screams of pain and agony for all eternity. He keeps sin and death forever. Where those of us in the CUR camp take sin and death seriously and look forward to the day they are no more and God is all in all and those former things shall all pass away and all things will become new. We believe all will repent and as scripture says Every knee will bow and every tongue confess gladly that Jesus is Lord, the very thing that all must do to be in Christ. I believe many think they know what CUR teaches and believe but have never really studied or looked into what we believe and teach.

 

[Der Alte]

***Question. Knowing the FACT that Paul, NEVER … EVER … NO NOT ONCE mentioned or spoke about hell; which presentation do you think he had in mind for their ministry of reconciliation?***

Why do you think this is relevant? Jesus certainly did mention a place of eternal punishment, more than once. Luke 16:19-21, Matthew 25:46

 

[Der Alte]

Do you think citing these scriptures changes or eliminates what they say? OR my statements about these scriptures?
If so, how? Just making claims without content isn't productive exchange

You might try actually reading my post. I gave 2 brief explanations.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

Why do you think this is relevant? Jesus certainly did mention a place of eternal punishment, more than once. Luke 16:19-21, Matthew 25:46

1). My friend, it is relevant because ALL Scripture is inspired by God. ALL of it comes from Jesus, not just His recorded words. ALL of it. Paul wrote 1/2 the New Testament under the divine inspiration of The Holy Spirt. Again, not one time, not once did Paul mention hell. Paul received the Gospel directly from the Lord. Yes? Yet he could boldly make the statement below. How is it he could make that declaration if Jesus spoke to him about the necessity of preaching hell?

”For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.“
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20‬:‭27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

bible.com

2). Jesus gave his disciples the flowing command:

”Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and l | New King James Version (NKJV)

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and l

bible.com

Question? Did the disciples/Apostles or any NT writer for that matter, obey this command from Jesus. I say yes. How about you? Yet, not a single one of them spoke about hell. Not one! James is the only one to even use the word Gehenna and I’m sure you would agree not in the context of its supposed intended design for the eternal punishment of the unrepentant! In fact, James says that Gehenna itself sets man’s tongue on fire. Huh?

”And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.“
‭‭James‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.

bible.com

3). Guess what? Hades? Also never mentioned by any NT writer. Except John, in the Revelation of Jesus The Christ. But it gets tossed, along with death, in to the lake of fire.

My friend, that should be more than enough to make you step back and reassess your position. Seriously … Not a single letter, from any NT writer, even mentions hell? For crying out loud my brother. Stop. Think. Reassess. If hell is so Scriptural, where is it? Why did God not breathe out through ALL His chosen writers of the impending doom and punishment coming upon all who do not believe?

THINK long and hard my friend …

blessings

 

[Der Alte]

1). My friend, it is relevant because ALL Scripture is inspired by God. ALL of it comes from Jesus, not just His recorded words. ALL of it. Paul wrote 1/2 the New Testament under the divine inspiration of The Holy Spirt. Again, not one time, not once did Paul mention hell. Paul received the Gospel directly from the Lord. Yes? Yet he could boldly make the statement below. How is it he could make that declaration if Jesus spoke to him about the necessity of preaching hell?

Incorrect! All scripture is relevant to something at some time but all scripture is NOT relevant to every circumstance. The scripture I referred to was not relevant to the point in question at that instant. And you haven't shown the relevance

”For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.“
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20‬:‭27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

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2). Jesus gave his disciples the flowing command:

”Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and l | New King James Version (NKJV)

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and l

bible.com

Question? Did the disciples/Apostles or any NT writer for that matter, obey this command from Jesus. I say yes. How about you? Yet, not a single one of them spoke about hell. Not one! James is the only one to even use the word Gehenna and I’m sure you would agree not in the context of its supposed intended design for the eternal punishment of the unrepentant! In fact, James says that Gehenna itself sets man’s tongue on fire. Huh?

”And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.“
‭‭James‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.

bible.com

3). Guess what? Hades? Also never mentioned by any NT writer. Except John, in the Revelation of Jesus The Christ. But it gets tossed, along with death, in to the lake of fire.

My friend, that should be more than enough to make you step back and reassess your position. Seriously … Not a single letter, from any NT writer, even mentions hell? For crying out loud my brother. Stop. Think. Reassess. If hell is so Scriptural, where is it? Why did God not breathe out through ALL His chosen writers of the impending doom and punishment coming upon all who do not believe?

THINK long and hard my friend …

blessings

I think you need to do the long and hard thinking and recheck your scripture. Gehenna occurs 12 times in the N.T. 11 times spoken by Jesus, once in James 3:6 and hades occurs 11 times in the N.T. 7 times by Jesus Hades occurs in Acts 2:27, 2:31 and 1 Cor 15:55. tartarus is translated hell one time 2 Peter 2:4