The 10 Commandments are done away!

[BABerean2]

I have no doubt. Jesus came to save the world through God extending his grace to the world. And Jesus was very clear on these matters.

Christ was clear, if we take Him at His Word...

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In the verse above, Christ is contrasting His commandments in reference to His Father's commandments.

Therefore, they cannot be exactly the same...

.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Christ was clear, if we take Him at His Word...

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In the verse above, Christ is contrasting His commandments in reference to His Father's commandments.

Therefore, they cannot be exactly the same...

.

Jesus was speaking in the context of God arrived as a man. Jesus was God. Therefore the commandments Jesus reiterated in Matthew when asked the commands that would lead to life, are the same commands he gave in the OT.

 

[tatteredsoul]

IOW you are saying the writing of Paul is not from God. What else is thereto say? You don't accept Christian Holy Writ and call yourself a Christian. How?

bugkiller

I don't accept Paul over God.

If Paul said Roses are blue, and God says they are red, I am going with God.

So I asked for information specifically from Christ or God only, because of man's fallibility.


It doesn't mean I don't believe in Christianity and the Word. All I have been asking for is a specific quote from Christ, or God that says the 10 commandments are done away with, and we no longer have to follow them.

The responses have either been quotes from men describing the position of Christ, or interpretations. I am asking for where the OP is said directly from God, or Christ.


What is there to say? Show me a quote from Christ Himself specifically telling us the 10 commandments are done away with, and no longer tk be followed. I don't want to hear from other people; the seriousness of the issue demands the Authority on Law - it needs to be from Christ, or God.


If you cannot show me direct quote/saying from Christ, why would I listen to any man? In other words, why would I listen to the OP, when Christ said something different?

I have told you, and others several times what I am asking for. I have not seen it yet.

 

[tall73]

Matthew 5:17 proves that is untruth.
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill”

Jesus was the embodiment of the law. Every one of the the ten commandments pertain to love of and for God, or love of and for one another.

Do you see Matthew 5 as referencing all of the law, or just the 10 commandments?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Do you see Matthew 5 as referencing all of the law, or just the 10 commandments?

What was Jesus referring to in Matthew 5 when he spoke of the law or the prophets?

 

[tall73]

What was Jesus referring to in Matthew 5 when he spoke of the law or the prophets?

Would it not be the OT Scriptures?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Would it not be the OT Scriptures?

It would.
For new Christians this article may be helpful to further our discussions here.
Law and the Prophets

 

[tall73]

It would.
For new Christians this article may be helpful to further our discussions here.
Law and the Prophets

So why do you keep stressing the 10 commandments when in Matthew 5 He included commandments beyond the 10?

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus was speaking in the context of God arrived as a man. Jesus was God. Therefore the commandments Jesus reiterated in Matthew when asked the commands that would lead to life, are the same commands he gave in the OT.

The logic that you are using to hold onto your doctrine is not normal logic.

Jesus is God in Flesh, but He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

He is one part of the triune God.

His laws are higher than those of the Sinai covenant.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Using Paul as our witness...

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (The Promise to Abraham was made only to Christ.)


Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The law was put in place 430 years after the promise to Abraham. The law cannot disannul the promise.)

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(The inheritance does not come through the law.)

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The law was "added" because of transgressions "until" the seed (Christ) could come.)

This same little word "until" is found in Matthew chapter 5.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Was Christ confused in the verse below?

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (Is this the 11th commandment?)

.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

The logic that you are using to hold onto your doctrine is not normal logic.

Jesus is God in Flesh, but He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

He is one part of the triune God.

His laws are higher than those of the Sinai covenant.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Using Paul as our witness...

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (The Promise to Abraham was made only to Christ.)


Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The law was put in place 430 years after the promise to Abraham. The law cannot disannul the promise.)

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(The inheritance does not come through the law.)

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The law was "added" because of transgressions "until" the seed (Christ) could come.)

This same little word "until" is found in Matthew chapter 5.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Was Christ confused in the verse below?

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (Is this the 11th commandment?)

.

Yes and no. Yes, it was stating a new commandment in order to put into context the others that were all about love. Scriptures tell us God is love. The ten hinge on love. Every last one. Love of the father, love for one another .

You keep insisting on fulfill. You're either unaware of the prophecies of Messiah, or of Jesus, or you're just wanting to argue for your own beliefs that make no sense because the omit the second coming. All is not fulfilled until Jesus comes again.

 

[disciple1]

Yes and no. Yes, it was stating a new commandment in order to put into context the others that were all about love. Scriptures tell us God is love. The ten hinge on love. Every last one. Love of the father, love for one another .

You keep insisting on fulfill. You're either unaware of the prophecies of Messiah, or of Jesus, or you're just wanting to argue for your own beliefs that make no sense because the omit the second coming. All is not fulfilled until Jesus comes again.

Law doesn't make anything perfect, only love that is expressed by faith, and that's not by obeying the law.
Romans chapter 4
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

 

[BABerean2]

You keep insisting on fulfill.

You have got that part right, because that is what Christ said.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Everyone else had broken the Sinai covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


It did not take long for the Judaisers to come into the early Church.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The conversation could not have been only about circumcision, because it was something they did bear...

 

[tall73]

The ten hinge on love.

Didn't Matthew 5 deal with more than just the 10?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Didn't Matthew 5 deal with more than just the 10?

"The law of God" being referred to, yes. But Jesus was still alive when he answered the one that asked what was necessary for life. What commands.
Jesus knew he was going to fulfill the ceremonial laws. Animal blood covering the sins. Because the Word that arrived as the perfect unblemished lamb was going to fulfill the prophecy of savior. Therefore, if the one in their question of what commands were necessary for life, would have been answered by the totality of the ceremonial laws as well as the moral, were Jesus to speak of the whole of the law. Because the ceremonial laws pertained to the personal being right before God. The moral laws spoke and speak to the individual being right with themselves in love and before God because all of that law, the ten, pertain to love On love of one another do all the laws and the prophets, and the prophets, hang. God is love. Therefore Gods law after Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial as the final blood sacrifice on the cross altar, was restated to the one and the apostles, and that's why Jesus listed them. And they're all based on love. As was said earlier.

 

[tall73]

"The law of God" being referred to, yes. But Jesus was still alive when he answered the one that asked what was necessary for life. What commands.
Jesus knew he was going to fulfill the ceremonial laws.

So you agree He fulfills some of the laws?

Therefore, if the one in their question of what commands were necessary for life, would have been answered by the totality of the ceremonial laws as well as the moral, were Jesus to speak of the whole of the law. Because the ceremonial laws pertained to the personal being right before God.

Are there "moral" laws outside of the ten?

The moral laws spoke and speak to the individual being right with themselves in love and before God because all of that law, the ten, pertain to love On love of one another do all the laws and the prophets, and the prophets, hang.

Why do you equate the law with the ten here? The two greatest commandments were in the law, but not in the ten.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

So you agree He fulfills some of the laws?





Are there "moral" laws outside of the ten?



Why do you equate the law with the ten here? The two greatest commandments were in the law, but not in the ten.

I've seen this before and I'll not enter it again.
You're talking your own language over and around what I've stated. It makes you appear either intentionally obtuse or worse. And I'll not participate any further.
I spoke plainly. Over and over again in fact. If you don't understand that is as God wills. One must have a basic groundwork in the scriptures with all the links provided to help those who don't. There's no excuse for your post here save for what I presume to be the case.
Gods peace.

 

[tall73]

I've seen this before and I'll not enter it again.
You're talking your own language over and around what I've stated. It makes you appear either intentionally obtuse or worse. And I'll not participate any further.
I spoke plainly. Over and over again in fact. If you don't understand that is as God wills. One must have a basic groundwork in the scriptures with all the links provided to help those who don't. There's no excuse for your post here save for what I presume to be the case.
Gods peace.

So asking whether He fulfilled some of the laws is obtuse?

Are you sure about that? I thought the purpose of this whole section was pretty clearly to discuss theology. How do I need an excuse?

 

[tall73]

You're talking your own language over and around what I've stated.

Jesus knew he was going to fulfill the ceremonial laws.

Are these not your words? They are not my words.

So He fulfilled some of the laws?

 

[disciple1]

"The law of God" being referred to, yes. But Jesus was still alive when he answered the one that asked what was necessary for life. What commands.
Jesus knew he was going to fulfill the ceremonial laws. Animal blood covering the sins. Because the Word that arrived as the perfect unblemished lamb was going to fulfill the prophecy of savior. Therefore, if the one in their question of what commands were necessary for life, would have been answered by the totality of the ceremonial laws as well as the moral, were Jesus to speak of the whole of the law. Because the ceremonial laws pertained to the personal being right before God. The moral laws spoke and speak to the individual being right with themselves in love and before God because all of that law, the ten, pertain to love On love of one another do all the laws and the prophets, and the prophets, hang. God is love. Therefore Gods law after Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial as the final blood sacrifice on the cross altar, was restated to the one and the apostles, and that's why Jesus listed them. And they're all based on love. As was said earlier.

Romans chapter 10 verse 4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
If faith doesn't express itself in love it's of no value.

 

[bugkiller]

I don't accept Paul over God.

If Paul said Roses are blue, and God says they are red, I am going with God.

So I asked for information specifically from Christ or God only, because of man's fallibility.


It doesn't mean I don't believe in Christianity and the Word. All I have been asking for is a specific quote from Christ, or God that says the 10 commandments are done away with, and we no longer have to follow them.

The responses have either been quotes from men describing the position of Christ, or interpretations. I am asking for where the OP is said directly from God, or Christ.


What is there to say? Show me a quote from Christ Himself specifically telling us the 10 commandments are done away with, and no longer tk be followed. I don't want to hear from other people; the seriousness of the issue demands the Authority on Law - it needs to be from Christ, or God.


If you cannot show me direct quote/saying from Christ, why would I listen to any man? In other words, why would I listen to the OP, when Christ said something different?

I have told you, and others several times what I am asking for. I have not seen it yet.

And yet you seem to believe the testimony of Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah - mere men. Why?

bugkiller