The 10 Commandments are done away!

[bugkiller]

Huh. Good to know murder isn't a sin anymore- I have a neighbor who has really been asking for it...

Sarcasm aside, why exactly is it such a big deal if the Ten Commandments apply to us or not? Jesus followed, and indeed fulfilled, the Law so that we might have the Holy Spirit, who is a more excellent teacher than the Law. Tht does not make the Law wrong, or evil, but it does mean we no longer live under it- even if, obviously, certain things are sinful under the new covenant that were also sinful under the old. Sin is, after all, still sin, regardless of the covenant you are under: what matter is if you are within the Body of Christ, so that your sin is no longer mortal (that is, condemning), but rather merely the vestiges of your flesh, which has yet to be transformed like your spirit.

Do you really not know or are you just playing like you live in Seattle?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

To your understanding which is that greatest commandment?

Romans 3:31

What did Jesus say to that question?

bugkiller

 

[Jason Sanders]

Do you really not know or are you just playing like you live in Seattle?

bugkiller

I wouldn't have asked if I had.

What did Jesus say to that question?

bugkiller

I don't know, what did he say?

 

[bugkiller]

I wouldn't have asked if I had.

I don't know, what did he say?

What's your church background and your interest here?

Have you read the whole Bible?

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

Huh. Good to know murder isn't a sin anymore- I have a neighbor who has really been asking for it...

Sarcasm aside, why exactly is it such a big deal if the Ten Commandments apply to us or not? Jesus followed, and indeed fulfilled, the Law so that we might have the Holy Spirit, who is a more excellent teacher than the Law. Tht does not make the Law wrong, or evil, but it does mean we no longer live under it- even if, obviously, certain things are sinful under the new covenant that were also sinful under the old. Sin is, after all, still sin, regardless of the covenant you are under: what matter is if you are within the Body of Christ, so that your sin is no longer mortal (that is, condemning), but rather merely the vestiges of your flesh, which has yet to be transformed like your spirit.

So if you love your neighbor you can murder him eh?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jason Sanders said: ↑
Huh. Good to know murder isn't a sin anymore- I have a neighbor who has really been asking for it...

Sarcasm aside, why exactly is it such a big deal if the Ten Commandments apply to us or not? Jesus followed, and indeed fulfilled, the Law so that we might have the Holy Spirit, who is a more excellent teacher than the Law. Tht does not make the Law wrong, or evil, but it does mean we no longer live under it- even if, obviously, certain things are sinful under the new covenant that were also sinful under the old. Sin...............

So if you love your neighbor you can murder him eh?

Exactly. Here in Texas, we us Christian rednecks keep the 10 Commandments simple................

.

 

[Cribstyl]

Huh. Good to know murder isn't a sin anymore- I have a neighbor who has really been asking for it...

Sarcasm aside, why exactly is it such a big deal if the Ten Commandments apply to us or not? Jesus followed, and indeed fulfilled, the Law so that we might have the Holy Spirit, who is a more excellent teacher than the Law. Tht does not make the Law wrong, or evil, but it does mean we no longer live under it- even if, obviously, certain things are sinful under the new covenant that were also sinful under the old. Sin is, after all, still sin, regardless of the covenant you are under: what matter is if you are within the Body of Christ, so that your sin is no longer mortal (that is, condemning), but rather merely the vestiges of your flesh, which has yet to be transformed like your spirit.

It is a big big deal. It's about God's word. It's about what covenant we're under.
Covenants are similar to marriage, someone has to die for you to get out of it. True or false?
The ten commandments are the words of the Mosaic covenant. True of false?
God promised to give a new covenant unlike the one given at Sinai. True or false?
That's saying there would come a time when the law would no longer be the covenant that God's people will be under.
Paul's letters addressed all of these issues and preached that we're not under the law. He also wrote:
Rom 3:21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses
Rom 3:22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Rom 3:23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Rom 3:24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.

Jesus died to set men free from the curse of the law (death)
A lot more can be proven with scriptures. Commentaries are designed to replace God's truths.

 

[Cribstyl]

Can there be sin without God's law?

The biblical answer is YES!!!! There is no question that Paul articulated this question by citing biblical facts: SIN WAS IN THE WORLD BEFORE THE LAW.... This pillar of truth is too important to ignore.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Fact is: These scriptures above gives us biblical history from Adam to Moses we should know are truths.

The first time the word SIN appears in the bible, God explained to Cain that sin is a lustful desire from within a man, that want to come out and rule over you, but you must rule over it. (Gen 4:7)
Those who abuse 1John 3:4 create a false premise. They understand this verse to say: "There is no sin without the law." Translation proves that John never said that.

 

[Cribstyl]

Isn't it odd how there are more than one member attempting to teach this falsehood about the ten commandments?

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Leviticus 24:22

Just a couple of old and new covenant examples that the point of the discussion first post is not true. The ten commandments apply to Christians today. God doesn't just rule over the Jews. Why then would his covenant wherein Jesus came to save the whole world from sin only apply to the Jews?
2 Chronicles 20:6 And said, O Lord God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

Psalm 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

Good question.
You've failed to understand that God would not be the one to break His covenant. The fact is; the death of His Son(it is finished) "fulfilled" the Old covenant and activated the New covenant. Paul explained in Rom 7:1-6 That we're dead to the law....delivered from the law.
Did not God prophesied of a New Covenant? Paul explained in Rom 3:20 that: From now on, it's righteousness without the law and that prophetic truth was written in the Law and the prophets.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Good question.
You've failed to understand that God would not be the one to break His covenant. The fact is; the death of His Son(it is finished) "fulfilled" the Old covenant and activated the New covenant. Paul explained in Rom 7:1-6 That we're dead to the law....delivered from the law.
Did not God prophesied of a New Covenant? Paul explained in Rom 3:20 that: From now on, it's righteousness without the law and that prophetic truth was written in the Law and the prophets.

I don't think that Sabbath Promoters here want to understand the idea of righteousness without the Law to them it cannot exist as it flies in the face of their logic that they have a part in salvation (or do some of the work needed) and that Jesus keeping the Law perfectly for them wasn't good enough they must do it themselves and that gives them partial credit for saving themselves instead of ALL credit given to God.

 

[BobRyan]

Good question.
You've failed to understand that God would not be the one to break His covenant. The fact is; the death of His Son(it is finished) "fulfilled" the Old covenant and activated the New covenant. Paul explained in Rom 7:1-6 That we're dead to the law....delivered from the law.
Did not God prophesied of a New Covenant? Paul explained in Rom 3:20 that: From now on, it's righteousness without the law and that prophetic truth was written in the Law and the prophets.

The New Covenant is where God says "I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind" -- and makes that covenant with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-10 - declaring that the Sinai commandments were given to us by Christ.

I don't think that Sabbath Promoters here want to understand the idea of righteousness without the Law t .

Is the "New Covenant" a "bad thing" in your POV?

 

[Four Angels Standing]

The biblical answer is YES!!!! There is no question that Paul articulated this question by citing biblical facts: SIN WAS IN THE WORLD BEFORE THE LAW.... This pillar of truth is too important to ignore.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Fact is: These scriptures above gives us biblical history from Adam to Moses we should know are truths.

The first time the word SIN appears in the bible, God explained to Cain that sin is a lustful desire from within a man, that want to come out and rule over you, but you must rule over it. (Gen 4:7)
Those who abuse 1John 3:4 create a false premise. They understand this verse to say: "There is no sin without the law." Translation proves that John never said that.

I think the last part of Romans 5:13 is important to see there. Imputed=to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

God told Adam and Eve in the garden, thou shalt not....
They disobeyed. How is it that it is missed? And that there are teachings concerning original sin? Wrong action. God's law emanated from his mouth when he commanded obedience of the first people to his rule about the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Furthermore, while Jesus was with his Disciples teaching them his words, reiterating the ten commandments, are we to think that after he died none of that mattered anymore? Jesus said love your God with all your heart and mind, love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commands do all the commands and laws of the prophets hang.
That's exactly right. Because the ten commandments were all about love of God and love of our neighbor.
While there are those who now argue that Jesus only meant to reiterate that, even in his sermon on the mountain, and after he died on the cross it was all to mean nothing? No longer apply?

So you're not then to love God with all your heart and mind. You're not to love your neighbor as yourself. Because Jesus accomplished all that on the cross? What exactly did he accomplish that would take those edicts away and make them to no longer apply in our behaviors toward God and our neighbor?

 

[Bob S]

To your understanding which is that greatest commandment?

Romans 3:31

1Jn 3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as HE commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

AMEN! AND AMEN!

Love is not boastful, full of pride, arrogant, stealing, killing, coveting, slanderous, angry or any other thing that would cause harm to another. Love is what Christianity is all about. It is what God is all about.

Christianity is not about observing ritual days or not eating this or that. It is not about wearing special clothes or stopping somewhere in time. It is not how long or short we cut our hair or men growing beards. All those things become control tools. John gave us that beautiful passage and if we needed more I am sure he would have been willing to share it with us. Man has really screwed up the simple plan of the new covenant.

 

[Bob S]

I think the last part of Romans 5:13 is important to see there. Imputed=to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

God told Adam and Eve in the garden, thou shalt not....
They disobeyed. How is it that it is missed? And that there are teachings concerning original sin? Wrong action. God's law emanated from his mouth when he commanded obedience of the first people to his rule about the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Furthermore, while Jesus was with his Disciples teaching them his words, reiterating the ten commandments, are we to think that after he died none of that mattered anymore? Jesus said love your God with all your heart and mind, love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commands do all the commands and laws of the prophets hang.
That's exactly right. Because the ten commandments were all about love of God and love of our neighbor.

Sorry to disagree about the 10 commandments. The 10 were all about duty, duty to God and duty to our fellow man. Love does not come from reading the 10. All the 10 could do is convict the trespasser of sin. A person does not have to love another to not covet or steal. Ho could do all those laws out of duty.

While there are those who now argue that Jesus only meant to reiterate that, even in his sermon on the mountain, and after he died on the cross it was all to mean nothing? No longer apply?

Absolutely. The problem is that most people do not take into consideration that Jesus was under the law speaking to those who were under the law. Jesus ratified the new covenant with His Blood on the Cross. What He taught while under the law changed once the old covenant was not in force. We can ans should glean from all that He taught, but we still have to remember we are not under the law that He was under.

So you're not then to love God with all your heart and mind. You're not to love your neighbor as yourself. Because Jesus accomplished all that on the cross? What exactly did he accomplish that would take those edicts away and make them to no longer apply in our behaviors toward God and our neighbor?

Has anyone indicated we are not to love God or our fellow man? This is what the new covenant is all about. It is not about ritual keeping of days or most of the laws in the book of the law. Jesus did all those things, but He left us a different kind of covenant where none of those things are relevant.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I think the last part of Romans 5:13 is important to see there. Imputed=to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

God told Adam and Eve in the garden, thou shalt not....
They disobeyed. How is it that it is missed? And that there are teachings concerning original sin? Wrong action. God's law emanated from his mouth when he commanded obedience of the first people to his rule about the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Furthermore, while Jesus was with his Disciples teaching them his words, reiterating the ten commandments, are we to think that after he died none of that mattered anymore? Jesus said love your God with all your heart and mind, love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commands do all the commands and laws of the prophets hang.
That's exactly right. Because the ten commandments were all about love of God and love of our neighbor.
While there are those who now argue that Jesus only meant to reiterate that, even in his sermon on the mountain, and after he died on the cross it was all to mean nothing? No longer apply?

So you're not then to love God with all your heart and mind. You're not to love your neighbor as yourself. Because Jesus accomplished all that on the cross? What exactly did he accomplish that would take those edicts away and make them to no longer apply in our behaviors toward God and our neighbor?

Commandments 1-4 (and applicable "Thou Shall not..." commands) = Love God with all of your hear, might and strength.

Commandments 5 - 10 (and all applicable "thou shall not..." commands) = love your neighbor as you love yourself.

The commandments from God, and how to worship Him in the spirit are four. The commandments from God, and how to treat other humans are six. Four is a spiritual number of creation; six is a number of man. This was not a mistake.

Faith without works is dead; your work is obedience to God's law which is FOUNDED. It does not justify your salvation; it is a measure of your faith.

Because, let's be honest: if you actually had faith in God's heavy-handed judgment, righteousness, jealousy (= zeal,) and justice, you would try your best not to break any of His commandments - just like you would have faith in your parent(s) justice, reprimand and zeal s that you try your best not to break any of their rules. Does your obedience to your parents invalidate your sonship/daughtership to them? NO. Would they still love you? Yes. Would they long that you eventually come to OBEY THEIR RULES, and use what they have taught you in your life to better yourself? Of course!

 

[Sophrosyne]

Absolutely. The problem is that most people do not take into consideration that Jesus was under the law speaking to those who were under the law. Jesus ratified the new covenant with His Blood on the Cross. What He taught while under the law changed once the old covenant was not in force. We can ans should glean from all that He taught, but we still have to remember we are not under the law that He was under.relevant.

And we have to remember those who are promoting the Law PURPOSELY avoid the truth that Jesus was REQUIRED to keep the Law as God intended it to be kept by Israel. If anything they reject the idea of "being under the Law" and replace it with the idea that EVERYONE was ALWAYS under the Law even if they didn't know it from Adam onwards.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Commandments 1-4 (and applicable "Thou Shall not..." commands) = Love God with all of your hear, might and strength.

Commandments 5 - 10 (and all applicable "thou shall not..." commands) = love your neighbor as you love yourself.

The commandments from God, and how to worship Him in the spirit are four. The commandments from God, and how to treat other humans are six. Four is a spiritual number of creation; six is a number of man. This was not a mistake.

Faith without works is dead; your work is obedience to God's law which is FOUNDED. It does not justify your salvation; it is a measure of your faith.

Because, let's be honest: if you actually had faith in God's heavy-handed judgment, righteousness, jealousy (= zeal,) and justice, you would try your best not to break any of His commandments - just like you would have faith in your parent(s) justice, reprimand and zeal s that you try your best not to break any of their rules. Does your obedience to your parents invalidate your sonship/daughtership to them? NO. Would they still love you? Yes. Would they long that you eventually come to OBEY THEIR RULES, and use what they have taught you in your life to better yourself? Of course!

WRONG!..... The commandments of adultery and Murder are NOT about loving at all but rather about NOT HATING. One can HATE his brother as much as he wishes (or hate their neighbor) and not be guilty under the 10 commandments of ANYTHING (not sinning according to them). One can lust after every married person in the world even unmarried or married themselves and NOT be guilty of sin under the 10 commandments. I could go on and on with more of the commandments but Jesus himself had to specifically tell folks that loving is GREATER than the 10 commandments.... NOT the 10 themselves (with the exception of Loving God). The Sabbath command has nothing to do with loving God but rather everything to do with resting.
One can obey many of the 10 commandments and be an ATHEIST even.

 

[tatteredsoul]

WRONG!..... The commandments of adultery and Murder are NOT about loving at all but rather about NOT HATING. One can HATE his brother as much as he wishes (or hate their neighbor) and not be guilty under the 10 commandments of ANYTHING (not sinning according to them). One can lust after every married person in the world even unmarried or married themselves and NOT be guilty of sin under the 10 commandments. I could go on and on with more of the commandments but Jesus himself had to specifically tell folks that loving is GREATER than the 10 commandments.... NOT the 10 themselves (with the exception of Loving God). The Sabbath command has nothing to do with loving God but rather everything to do with resting.
One can obey many of the 10 commandments and be an ATHEIST even.

What did Christ say? Lust in the heart alone convicts you as an adulterer. Hate in your heart alone convicts you as a murderer.

If you love someone, you will not commit adultery against them. If you love someone, you will not murder them. If you love someone, you will not deceive them. If you love someone, you will not envy what they have: you will be happy from them. If you love your neighbor, you will not steal from them. If you love your parents, you will honor them. You cannot love your parents or fellow man in a Godly way if you do not follow those commandments of God, respective to the object. Outside commands: if you love your your fellow man, you will forgive his/her debt after seven years (another spiritual number) of servitude - no matter the debt balance. (Laban swindled Jacob, and exploited Jacob's love for Rachael.)

God gave the 10 commandments because man became literally too SLOW and EVIL to listen to the God-given conviction He gave to their hearts. The 10 commandments and other laws clearly went over Israel's head again, so (already in the works) God Himself came down to teach us. Now, 2100+ years later and we still don't get it? That He didn't come tout change Law? That not one jot or iota would be removed from the law until heaven and earth pass away?

There is no lukewarmness in worship. If you want to be on God's team, you have to follow His rules. If you dont, then dont. But, don't make Him out to be a liar by saying one of the foundations of His instruction so no longer valid - even by using Him Himself as justification. You can't serve two masters, and claim to love someone while at the same time hurting them. Don't you think God would call you a liar if you claim to love Him, but you adorn yourself and your company with idols? Do you think God would agree if you when you say you love Him, but you also like to follow Cthulhu, Zeus, and Enki?

By the OP logic, I can still claim to love my neighbor, but covet him and be completely justified before God. I can claim to love my neighbor, and steal his food (justifying to myself that I need it more than him,) and be completely justified before God. My neighbor would tell me I have a strange definition of love.

 

[tatteredsoul]

And, an atheist cannot follow 10 commandments because by definition commandments 1-4 would disqualify them as an atheist - if they were truly following those commandments.

 

[BABerean2]

The New Covenant is where God says "I will write My LAWS on their heart and on their mind" -- and makes that covenant with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-10 - declaring that the Sinai commandments were given to us by Christ.

Then the Apostle Paul must have been very confused in Galatians chapter 4 when he compared the Sinai covenant to bondage and told us to cast out the Sinai covenant.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(This is a reference to the New Jerusalem in Hebrews 11:16.)

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Here Paul tells us to cast out the Sinai covenant of bondage.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(We are not the children of the Sinai covenant.)


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

We are under a higher law, instead of a weaker law.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


Old Covenant Law...
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:


The Law of Christ...
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


You also skipped part of Jeremiah chapter 31 which is found repeated in Hebrews 8:9.


Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

.