The 10 Commandments are done away!

jason1 · Mar 28, 2016

Disciple, the definition of love is to DO the torah.

Your galation verse talks about oral law (man-made rules). Paul is saying why do you desired to be under that system of bondage (man-made) and he likens it to Hagar. Those children of the promise (Isaac) will live by torah (elohim made) because that is their faith expressed in their Creator and His promises.

Don't say we can't do torah because scripture tells us to do it every other verse throughout the whole book.

disciple1 · Mar 28, 2016

jason1 said:
Disciple, the definition of love is to DO the torah.

Your galation verse talks about oral law (man-made rules). Paul is saying why do you desired to be under that system of bondage (man-made) and he likens it to Hagar. Those children of the promise (Isaac) will live by torah (elohim made) because that is their faith expressed in their Creator and His promises.

Don't say we can't do torah because scripture tells us to do it every other verse throughout the whole book.

Galatians chapter 4
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Mount Sinai is where the commandments came from.
Your mistaken.

jason1 · Mar 28, 2016

disciple1 said:
Galatians chapter 4
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Mount Sinai is where the commandments came from.
Your mistaken.

Lets back up to the top of the chapter and see what the context is:

Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters,1 to which you wish to be enslaved again? Footnote: 1See v.3, Col. 2:8 & 20.
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest by any means I have laboured for you in vain.

This correlates with Paul's other writing in collosians:

Col 2:8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.

Col 2:20 If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters1 of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations: Footnote: 1See v. 8, and Gal. 4:3 & 9.
Col 2:21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle" –

As you see the context isn't the torah of Elohim, it is talking about the weak and elementary ORAL LAWS. These are also called "Traditions of Men". This is what Jesus and Paul came to combat because they violated torah in certain areas. Paul is saying we don't have to follow man-made religion. True freedom comes from following only the torah of Elohim:

Jas 2:12 So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by a Torah of freedom.

disciple1 · Mar 28, 2016

jason1 said:
Lets back up to the top of the chapter and see what the context is:

Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved.
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters,1 to which you wish to be enslaved again? Footnote: 1See v.3, Col. 2:8 & 20.
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest by any means I have laboured for you in vain.

This correlates with Paul's other writing in collosians:

Col 2:8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.

Col 2:20 If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters1 of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations: Footnote: 1See v. 8, and Gal. 4:3 & 9.
Col 2:21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle" –

As you see the context isn't the torah of Elohim, it is talking about the weak and elementary ORAL LAWS. These are also called "Traditions of Men". This is what Jesus and Paul came to combat because they violated torah in certain areas. Paul is saying we don't have to follow man-made religion. True freedom comes from following only the torah of Elohim:

Jas 2:12 So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by a Torah of freedom.

I don't know what your reading.
Galatians chapter 4
4 What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[

jason1 · Mar 28, 2016

When you see "under the law" in Galations it is talking about oral law and Phrasaic/Sauducee leadership. I had hoped that correlating the galations verses with the collossian ones would clear up the misunderstanding since the wording is clearer in his other letter, yet uses the same phrases.

Somehow, the churches have twisted Paul's writings to mean that torah is bad which can never be. The opposite is the truth and the word of Elohim (torah) is the good and just and upright (read psalms 119).

2Pe 3:14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

disciple1 · Mar 28, 2016

jason1 said:
When you see "under the law" in Galations it is talking about oral law and Phrasaic/Sauducee leadership. I had hoped that correlating the galations verses with the collossian ones would clear up the misunderstanding since the wording is clearer in his other letter, yet uses the same phrases.

Somehow, the churches have twisted Paul's writings to mean that torah is bad which can never be. The opposite is the truth and the word of Elohim (torah) is the good and just and upright (read psalms 119).

2Pe 3:14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

Is this oral law to.

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

jason1 · Mar 28, 2016

No, the change wasn't the torah, the change was the administration of it. We have a new high priest of a different order in the heavens right now.

disciple1 · Mar 28, 2016

jason1 said:
No, the change wasn't the torah, the change was the administration of it. We have a new high priest of a different order in the heavens right now.

You have a way of twisting things, what kind of faith are you, I notice you don't say.

disciple1 said:
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

jason1 · Mar 28, 2016

What was twisted? Everything I've said lines up with the whole book.

Saying the torah is done away with is like saying, "Its ok to disobey the Father now". Its rediculous

My faith = torah obedient follower YHVH and His Messiah

disciple1 · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
What was twisted? Everything I've said lines up with the whole book.

Saying the torah is done away with is like saying, "Its ok to disobey the Father now". Its rediculous

My faith = torah obedient follower YHVH and His Messiah

No one obeys the law, and you say you have to know some oral law code, your twisting the bible.
Galatians chapter 2
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[
Most of what I've said has been verses of the bible, most of your words have been some strange teaching.
Galatians chapter 1 verse 8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!
Your saying something different, but you'll probably discredit this to.

jason1 · Mar 29, 2016

Disciple, don't you see that you're saying that Paul is preaching a different message than the REST OF SCRIPTURE? If what you say is true, then we should throw Paul in the garbage because he is leading you away from YHVH. But if you see what Paul was truely saying, you'll see he lines up exactly with scripture:

2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

disciple1 · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
Disciple, don't you see that you're saying that Paul is preaching a different message than the REST OF SCRIPTURE? If what you say is true, then we should throw Paul in the garbage because he is leading you away from YHVH. But if you see what Paul was truely saying, you'll see he lines up exactly with scripture:

2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,1 which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

I rather take a safe and good way that goes along with god and Christ.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32 To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you are really my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
The law is slavery to sin.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
love covers many sins.
So this way is safe.
Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

But your way isn't safe, since you can't obey the law, AND DON'T

jason1 · Mar 29, 2016

disciple1 said:
I rather take a safe and good way that goes along with god and Christ

The safe way? Lol. Jesus was the WORD (aka torah). He was obedient unto DEATH! Think about that....

disciple1 said:
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

Did you not read this verse? What is written in the law? He was upholding and living by it and teaching by it...

FREE YOUR MIND NEO

disciple1 · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
The safe way? Lol. Jesus was the WORD (aka torah). He was obedient unto DEATH! Think about that....

Did you not read this verse? What is written in the law? He was upholding and living by it and teaching by it...

FREE YOUR MIND NEO

I'm going to believe the bible before you.
Romans chapter 3
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
We uphold the law through faith that expresses it self in love.
1 peter chapter 4
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Jeremiah chapter 22 verse 16
He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the Lord.

jason1 · Mar 29, 2016

Continue on in ignorance then and take the blue pill. And don't forget Peter:

2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

disciple1 · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
Continue on in ignorance then and take the blue pill. And don't forget Peter:

2Pe 3:15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

Ignorance means lack of knowledge. And if your under 50 you couldn't have studied the bible more than me I've given up my life to study it.
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

disciple1 said:
John chapter 8 verse 31,32 To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you are really my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
The law is slavery to sin.

disciple1 said:
Romans chapter 3
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
We uphold the law through faith that expresses it self in love.
1 peter chapter 4

disciple1 said:
1 peter chapter 4
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
Jeremiah chapter 22 verse 16
He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the Lord.

And by this last verse I know I know god and have him if you go by 2 john verse 9

jason1 · Mar 29, 2016

disciple1 said:
I've given up my life to study it.

If you've truely done that, please look up what I've said about oral torah. It was the controversy in the NT and will radically change your view on the context of the NT. Paul is very obvious about it in multiple places, but less obvious in others unless you know the key phrases and havea foundation of torah. Without that you are a rudderless ship.

disciple1 · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
If you've truely done that, please look up what I've said about oral torah. It was the controversy in the NT and will radically change your view on the context of the NT. Paul is very obvious about it in multiple places, but less obvious in others unless you know the key phrases and havea foundation of torah. Without that you are a rudderless ship.

Ecclesiastes 12:12New International Version (NIV)

12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.

Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.A)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-17536A">

disciple1 said:
John chapter 8 verse 31,32 To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you are really my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

And Jesus is offering freedom your offering slavery.
There's many false beliefs that come from people, there's even churches that the pastors think they can forgive sin, and that they should be called father.

BobRyan · Mar 29, 2016

Albion said:
Yes, but that's because this particular issue is your only heartthrob, isn't it? I mean, you start all these threads and rarely post on anything else; and aside from an echo coming occasionally from your fellow SDAer, hardly anyone else cares.

It is interesting that you claim that hardly anyone cares about your own position -- recall that it is your own 6 points that I am defending. And had you actually read these threads you would find that the 2 or 3 SDA posters on this board - are less than half of those who are trying to defend those 6 points that you 'should' also be defending since they are in fact what you also believe.

My statement was that you have a vast landscape on this area of the board of people opposing all 7 of your points - primarily focused on 6 of them. And you can even come to this "Ten Commandments are done away" thread -- with hardly a peep from you to defend your westminster 7 points in opposition to that OP.

This subject area is as active or more so than any thread on GT. A lot of posts come in every day - opposed to 6 of your 7 points. You leave it to me and few others here to answer for the Westminster Confession of Faith??? Why not have a few of the Westminster-accepting folks come here - defend their own positions and give the rest of us some room to talk about "point 7" where we DO differ with the Westminster document??

(Ok well I did just add a few comments to some of my old threads - so they came up to the top just now - but that is just temporary)

bugkiller · Mar 29, 2016

jason1 said:
People can obey the law, just not perfectly. That doen't mean we don't aim to do it our best.

Love's definition is doing the law. By not stealing, murdering, being kind etc, those are all part of the law.

Everybody in the world isn't our neighbor. Its those around you. Help your family first, then your friends, then your community, and once all of those are set, look further out.

The things you list are only in agreement by incidence and not obedience.

bugkiller

The 10 Commandments are done away!

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