The 10 Commandments are done away!

[Albion]

Yes, you did not say I keep Sunday, you said I, along with others, bend the commandment to point to Sunday. This is something I have never done and yes your statement is an indicator that I observe the commandment on Sunday. I ask you to stop writing things that are not true.

This very point was brought up earlier (to no effect).

 

[2 know him]

You need to follow BugKiller, Disciple1, BobS, "2 Know Him" .. and a bunch of other guys a bit more closely if you think nobody is arguing with me daily on this area of the board - taking their stand against the Ten Commandments on this board.

They almost never get to "your topic" which is "not keeping Sabbath on Saturday as God commanded - and instead just bending the commandment to point to Sunday". You cannot simply "imagine reality" for us - look at the actual posts.

-- they are much more interested in attacking all 6 of your other points, declaring the Ten Commandments to be done away (hint see the title of this thread)

- while you imagine that such opposition is not happening - and can all be re-imagined as "keeping Sabbath on Saturday instead of keeping Sabbath on Sunday". Frankly you are the only one on this board even having that conversation. Much less "imagining" that everyone here is discussing that point. Join the conversation as it exists "in real life".

Sophrosyne also opposes ALL 7 of your points - his only agreement with you is in the area of ad hominem and re-imagining reality from time to time.

Read the actual posts!!



Before I report your post - will do you the favor of asking one question -- where in that post of mine to Albion do you see me claiming that you "keep sunday"?????

in Christ,

Bob

I think that often times people think the issue is with the Sabbath being Saturday or Sunday, but really the issue has nothing to do with that, the issue is that we follow Jesus and Jesus clearly stated that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Moses clearly stated that the Sabbath was given to ensure that people did not overwork others and that they gave themselves a break from labour also. The Sabbath wasn't the issue, the issue was to ensure a regular break.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

This is what the Sabbath does, it shows mercy: it is not about sacrifice.

Those of us who follow Jesus don't see that the Sabbath day as a particular day of obligation, but rather we see it as a call to ensure rest for others, and our self, to ensure a respite from labour.

The issue we have with those who claim one must rest from Friday evening to Saturday evening is that they are missing the very point that the 10 Commandments, and the Laws of Moses, are not the covenant that we live by.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The Hebrew literally says NOT THE COVENANT...

Why is it that you keep wanting to impose the Old Covenant upon people? The simple answer is that you have taken Matthew 5:17, a verse that translators translated very badly, to try and bring people to obedience to the covenant that was made through Moses with the children of Israel: which covenant has long since ceased.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

When Jesus was baptized and the dove fell upon him, it was his inauguration ceremony and he began his reign and thus when he came out of the wilderness he began to teach the rules of his kingdom. Those of us that follow Christ's teachings, have made them the rule by which we subject ourselves too.

 

[jason1]

Moses clearly stated that the Sabbath was given to ensure that people did not overwork others and that they gave themselves a break from labour also. The Sabbath wasn't the issue, the issue was to ensure a regular break.

You are partially right that it was made so man can rest from his labors. The part of keeping it on the actual 7th day is extremely important. Why? Its because it harkens back to when the Creator of the universe rested on the 7th day. When we keep the sabbath we are saying, "I am honoring this day because I serve YHVH the Creator of the universe". When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods.

Made for man, ordained by Elohim, kept by His people

 

[BABerean2]

I think that often times people think the issue is with the Sabbath being Saturday or Sunday, but really the issue has nothing to do with that, the issue is that we follow Jesus and Jesus clearly stated that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Moses clearly stated that the Sabbath was given to ensure that people did not overwork others and that they gave themselves a break from labour also. The Sabbath wasn't the issue, the issue was to ensure a regular break.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

This is what the Sabbath does, it shows mercy: it is not about sacrifice.

Those of us who follow Jesus don't see that the Sabbath day as a particular day of obligation, but rather we see it as a call to ensure rest for others, and our self, to ensure a respite from labour.

The issue we have with those who claim one must rest from Friday evening to Saturday evening is that they are missing the very point that the 10 Commandments, and the Laws of Moses, are not the covenant that we live by.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The Hebrew literally says NOT THE COVENANT...

Why is it that you keep wanting to impose the Old Covenant upon people? The simple answer is that you have taken Matthew 5:17, a verse that translators translated very badly, to try and bring people to obedience to the covenant that was made through Moses with the children of Israel: which covenant has long since ceased.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

When Jesus was baptized and the dove fell upon him, it was his inauguration ceremony and he began his reign and thus when he came out of the wilderness he began to teach the rules of his kingdom. Those of us that follow Christ's teachings, have made them the rule by which we subject ourselves too.

The Apostle Paul agrees with you in Galatians chapter 4, where he compares the Sinai covenant to bondage and says we are to cast it out.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(This is the heavenly Jerusalem, instead of the one on this sin-cursed world.)

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We are part of the New Blood Covenant Church.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealeditunto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

We have a higher law to follow, as seen in the example below.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (Torah)
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Higher Law spoken by Christ)

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[2 know him]

You are partially right that it was made so man can rest from his labors. The part of keeping it on the actual 7th day is extremely important. Why? Its because it harkens back to when the Creator of the universe rested on the 7th day. When we keep the sabbath we are saying, "I am honoring this day because I serve YHVH the Creator of the universe". When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods.

Made for man, ordained by Elohim, kept by His people

You are making quite a statement by saying "When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods." You statement is totally false. I keep a day of rest keeping in mind that man was not made for the day, but rather the day was made for man: to ensure rest. The Son of man lord's over the Sabbath, not the other way around. Jesus had every right to use the Sabbath as he desired, by his own words, this could not be so if he was subject to the Sabbath as a Law.

I don't know how you keep the Sabbath, but I am pretty sure it would not meet the standards of many orthodox Jews. Maybe what you should consider is that by pushing the Sabbath, the way you are, you are negating Jesus' words, by saying: God does demand sacrifice and sacrifice is primary. If I am a employer of people and give them Wednesday off every week, and do so from morning to morning, am I not providing rest?

Why didn't people already keep a Sabbath from the beginning of time?

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The Sabbath day was not given to man from the beginning of time, it was commanded because of the hardness of men's hearts, as God knew if the children of Israel didn't have such a command, then they would have pushed their workers without rest: without such a command preventing it.

There is no command, or history of any ritual Sabbath, ever mentioned before Moses commanded it: to the Children of Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

You are making quite a statement by saying "When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods." You statement is totally false. I keep a day of rest keeping in mind that man was not made for the day, but rather the day was made for man: to ensure rest. The Son of man lord's over the Sabbath, not the other way around. Jesus had every right to use the Sabbath as he desired, by his own words, this could not be so if he was subject to the Sabbath as a Law.

I don't know how you keep the Sabbath, but I am pretty sure it would not meet the standards of many orthodox Jews. Maybe what you should consider is that by pushing the Sabbath, the way you are, you are negating Jesus' words, by saying: God does demand sacrifice and sacrifice is primary. If I am a employer of people and give them Wednesday off every week, and do so from morning to morning, am I not providing rest?

Why didn't people already keep a Sabbath from the beginning of time?

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The Sabbath day was not given to man from the beginning of time, it was commanded because of the hardness of men's hearts, as God knew if the children of Israel didn't have such a command, then they would have pushed their workers without rest: without such a command preventing it.

There is no command, or history of any ritual Sabbath, ever mentioned before Moses commanded it: to the Children of Israel.

The Apostle Paul agrees with you in Galatians chapter 3.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

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[jason1]

I'm utterly disgusted by how blind you "christians" are. You twist everything into lawlessness and make yourselves like demons in the process. I'm done trying to reason with those who can't reason even when every proof is in your face. Repent or die spiritually.

Act_8:22 "Repent therefore of this evil of yours, and plead with Elohim to forgive you the intention of your heart.
Hos_8:12 "I have written for him numerous matters of My Torah – they were regarded as strange.
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’

 

[bugkiller]

You are partially right that it was made so man can rest from his labors. The part of keeping it on the actual 7th day is extremely important. Why? Its because it harkens back to when the Creator of the universe rested on the 7th day. When we keep the sabbath we are saying, "I am honoring this day because I serve YHVH the Creator of the universe". When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods.

Made for man, ordained by Elohim, kept by His people

I don't think you have any idea what the vast majority of Christians do. Most of us don't come anywhere close to keeping a day in the fashion your require.

bugkiller

 

[2 know him]

I'm utterly disgusted by how blind you "christians" are. You twist everything into lawlessness and make yourselves like demons in the process. I'm done trying to reason with those who can't reason even when every proof is in your face. Repent or die spiritually.

Act_8:22 "Repent therefore of this evil of yours, and plead with Elohim to forgive you the intention of your heart.
Hos_8:12 "I have written for him numerous matters of My Torah – they were regarded as strange.
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’

Dear Jason1, don't get upset if people don't agree with you, I am using what I believe is a reasonable argument to say why you are mistaken in what you are saying. Just because you don't agree doesn't make you right, if you have a reasonable counterargument to my statements, I am more than happy to hear them, but I don't see you to be right on this issue, actually I see you to be wrong and I am trying to get you to see that you are embracing the Old Covenant which goes against a number of prophecies.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Isa 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isa 55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

I believe it was to you that I clearly showed that David should have been stoned under Moses' law and that not only was he not stoned, but that God gave us Jesus through offering mercy, which Moses' laws absolutely DID NOT OFFER.

While you are stuck on trying to save your failing beliefs, you fail to acknowledge that Christ taught against obedience to Moses' Laws and that his RULE is what matters.

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Luk 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
Luk 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
Luk 9:34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
Luk 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Don't hear Moses and don't hear Elias: HEAR JESUS.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

You seem to fail to understand who Jesus really is and do not acknowledge that Moses' torah didn't offer forgiveness to any who sinned knowingly. The 10 commandments are not what mankind is going to give an account to on judgement day, Jesus' laws/torah are/is.

I stated before that Paul was and is very wrong on some of the things he taught, but he was not wrong when he stated:
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Jesus is God's Son HEAR HIM: not Moses.


Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

You say Jesus just reconfirmed the Old Covenant, but that is not true, Jesus' Covenant is not a regurgitated covenant, it is a NEW Covenant.

Now if I am wrong: show me what part I am wrong on? And explain how your beliefs embrace the following:
er 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

You keep saying that it is the same covenant, when David should be killed according to the Old Covenant and not only was David not killed, but rather God makes him the vessel by which the Saviour of the world is brought forth. ANSWER HOW THIS COULD BE IF THE OLD COVENANT IS THE COVENANT THAT IS ETERNAL? The Old Covenant doesn't offer forgiveness for presumptuous sin (sin done with foreknowledge of the act being wrong), it only offers forgiveness for sins of ignorance.

The Prophets understanding the temporary nature and limitations of the first covenant: prophesied of a New Covenant; they were prophesying of Christ.

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

This is God's law given to the children of Israel by Moses' If this is the law that God used to judge mankind, you will certainly not have forgiveness, as I have shown before, for Moses' Law offered NO FORGIVENSS for those who knowingly did something they knew was wrong.

Num 15:22 And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
Num 15:23 Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;
Num 15:24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.
Num 15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Num 15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Why did you not answer me before when I ask you if you had done anything before which you knew was wrong? Instead you pointed to the prophets who offered forgiveness, but forgiveness was not offered by God by the covenant which was made with the children of Israel in the wilderness, it was offered outside of it. And yet you still wish to be under the Covenant of Moses and if you are under it and if you have knowingly sinned, you have no forgiveness offered to you through that covenant.

My friend I am not trying to win an argument, I am trying to get you to become free from the same ignorance that I was once bound by, as I ignorantly wandered aimlessly trying to grasp at what I was suppose to be adhering to: before I came to follow Christ and him alone.

 

[2 know him]

I'm utterly disgusted by how blind you "christians" are. You twist everything into lawlessness and make yourselves like demons in the process. I'm done trying to reason with those who can't reason even when every proof is in your face. Repent or die spiritually.

Act_8:22 "Repent therefore of this evil of yours, and plead with Elohim to forgive you the intention of your heart.
Hos_8:12 "I have written for him numerous matters of My Torah – they were regarded as strange.
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’

You say we are lawless, but I am not lawless, I am under Christ's laws: not Moses'. How am I a demon when I tell others to love their enemies and care about people and not things? How am I a demon when I preach equality and not a hierarchy system? How am I a demon when I preach forgiveness and not hatred? Actually you have said people should be stoned, against Jesus' teachings on forgiveness, so who is demon like? You need God's forgiveness and you want to cast the first stone; one of us is blind and being lead by Satan to be sure.

 

[BobRyan]

I said that hardly anyone is showing any interest in arguing with you, again and again, about Saturday worship.

You need to follow BugKiller, Disciple1, BobS, "2 Know Him" .. and a bunch of other guys a bit more closely if you think nobody is arguing with me daily on this area of the board - taking their stand against the Ten Commandments on this board.

They almost never get to "your topic" which is "not keeping Sabbath on Saturday as God commanded - and instead just bending the commandment to point to Sunday". You cannot simply "imagine reality" for us - look at the actual posts.

-- they are much more interested in attacking all 6 of your other points, declaring the Ten Commandments to be done away (hint see the title of this thread)

- while you imagine that such opposition is not happening - and can all be re-imagined as "keeping Sabbath on Saturday instead of keeping Sabbath on Sunday". Frankly you are the only one on this board even having that conversation. Much less "imagining" that everyone here is discussing that point. Join the conversation as it exists "in real life".

Sophrosyne also opposes ALL 7 of your points - his only agreement with you is in the area of ad hominem and re-imagining reality from time to time.

Read the actual posts!!

you wouldn't lie would you? I bend nothing and I do not"keep" Sunday. Lets get that straight for the last time. Next time I will do some reporting. I am tired of cleaning up after you.

Before I report your post - will do you the favor of asking one question -- where in that post of mine to Albion do you see me claiming that you "keep sunday"?????

Yes, you did not say I keep Sunday,

Indeed - and so your first false accusation proven to be misleading and false by your own admission.

you said I, along with others, bend the commandment to point to Sunday.

wrong -- "AGAIN". I said that Albion does that - I claimed that you and the others I listed were opposing the TEN Commandments which you have done repeatedly.

you have yet to accuse me of "hey you said I am not promoting the TEN commandments" as if that would be in correct of me to accuse you of it -- how "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

This is something I have never done and yes your statement is an indicator that I observe the commandment on Sunday.

Sadly the falsehood in your statements is obvious for all to see at this point - you are claiming that I have accused you of taking Albion's POV which I have never done and you only have your own "quote of you" to fabricate such a thing.

Meanwhile Albion seems to have totally lost the point

This very point was brought up earlier (to no effect).

I ask you to stop writing things that are not true.

Yesterday I was feeling bad, having just cut my leg with a chain saw, and allowed my fingers to get ahead of my brain.

yeeouch! -- ! ok - you get a pass.

Just because I do not believe we are under the 10 commandments, Sabbath included

Which is all I said about you and the others.

Everything else in your post is you 'quoting you' then 'blaming me'.

I appeal to what is actually happening "in real life".

I am trying to get to a point where I COULD debate Albion on the ONE point we have as a difference - but I have to spend all my time defending Albion's SIX points where we agree - while all those opposed to Sabbath attack those six points ... and Albion pretends like there is nothing left for him to do.

 

[BobRyan]

You say we are lawless, but I am not lawless, I am under Christ's laws: not Moses'.

By "rejecting the teaching of Christ"???

"If they do not Listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16


8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Eph 6:2 -- what unit of LAW in scripture - known to NT saints has the 5th Commandment as its FIRST commandment with a promise?

Christ GAVE us the TEN Commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-10

 

[BobRyan]

Notice the last statement in this quote of D.L. Moody's TEN Commandments sermon?
=====================================================

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

I don't think you have any idea what the vast majority of Christians do. Most of us don't come anywhere close to keeping a day in the fashion your require.

bugkiller

See also -
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[2 know him]

By "rejecting the teaching of Christ"???

"If they do not Listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16


8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Eph 6:2 -- what unit of LAW in scripture - known to NT saints has the 5th Commandment as its FIRST commandment with a promise?

Christ GAVE us the TEN Commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-10

Can you explain to me what the word Torah actually means?

 

[BobRyan]

You say we are lawless, but I am not lawless, I am under Christ's laws: not Moses'.

By "rejecting the teaching of Christ"???

"If they do not Listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16


8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Question for you -- Eph 6:2 -- what unit of LAW in scripture - known to NT saints has the 5th Commandment as its FIRST commandment with a promise?

Christ GAVE us the TEN Commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-10

Can you explain to me what the word Torah actually means?

Are you asking this sideline question because you see me use the term in that post - or are you "buying time" in an effort to avoid the Eph 6:2 question asked of you?

Luke 24
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Next question for you: Is Luke 24:27 the "pre-cross much-to-be-ignored" teaching of Christ in your view - or the "post-cross much-to-be ignorned" teaching of Christ - or would you agree that NONE of the teaching of Christ is "much-to-be-ignored"??

 

[Bob S]

You are partially right that it was made so man can rest from his labors. The part of keeping it on the actual 7th day is extremely important. Why? Its because it harkens back to when the Creator of the universe rested on the 7th day. When we keep the sabbath we are saying, "I am honoring this day because I serve YHVH the Creator of the universe". When you keep other days you in a sense say you're worshipping other gods.

Made for man, ordained by Elohim, kept by His people

And you are just partially right because in Deut 5 the issue about keeping Sabbath was to remember how God led the Israelites out of Egypt. I am not an Israelite so what does that have to do with me or any gentile?

I do not keep other days and I bet you don't keep Sabbath. Turn your foot from doing your own pleasure. What does that mean? It means that you and all those who say they "keep" Sabbath are only giving lip service to the real done away with Sabbath obligation. There is much more to observing the old covenant Sabbath than just resting like you like to portray.

 

[Bob S]

You need to follow BugKiller, Disciple1, BobS, "2 Know Him" .. and a bunch of other guys a bit more closely if you think nobody is arguing with me daily on this area of the board - taking their stand against the Ten Commandments on this board.

Bob Ryan wrote

They almost never get to "your topic" which is "not keeping Sabbath on Saturday as God commanded - and instead just bending the commandment to point to Sunday". You cannot simply "imagine reality" for us - look at the actual posts.

If you meant YOU why did you write THEY? But then we know you are never wrong, so I will not expect an apology.

-- they are much more interested in attacking all 6 of your other points, declaring the Ten Commandments to be done away (hint see the title of this thread)
- while you imagine that such opposition is not happening

There you go again using THEY. To my knowledge I have never attacked anything Albion has written.

Before I report your post -

Again, where did I do something that need to be reported. I am sure you read my previous post where I ask you to identify where I have violated any rules so that I can make amends. Why is it that you continuously skip over questions that we ask you? Could it be that you really cannot answer them?

 

[bbbbbbb]

By "rejecting the teaching of Christ"???

"If they do not Listen to Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16


8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Question for you -- Eph 6:2 -- what unit of LAW in scripture - known to NT saints has the 5th Commandment as its FIRST commandment with a promise?

Christ GAVE us the TEN Commandments according to Hebrews 8:6-10

Are you asking this sideline question because you see me use the term in that post - or are you "buying time" in an effort to avoid the Eph 6:2 question asked of you?

Luke 24
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Next question for you: Is Luke 24:27 the "pre-cross much-to-be-ignored" teaching of Christ in your view - or the "post-cross much-to-be ignorned" teaching of Christ - or would you agree that NONE of the teaching of Christ is "much-to-be-ignored"??

Tsk, tsk, tsk. There you go again, elevating the ten commandments and willfully ignoring 603 specific commandments of God.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. There you go again, elevating the ten commandments and willfully ignoring 603 specific commandments of God.

actually the only ignore 602 as they "claim" to keep dietary laws (and promote them in the forum).

 

[bbbbbbb]

actually the only ignore 602 as they "claim" to keep dietary laws (and promote them in the forum).

This is quite true. I love the artificial distinction between the "moral" law and the "ceremonial" law.