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Ya he's speaking about one and the same. Foreign languages.
The chiding was for the Corinthians using foreign languages without an interpreter.
Paul never talked about gibberish...EVER.
Do you at least acknowledge that the gift of tongues at Pentacost was the Holy Spirt working to allow those present to hear the Gospel in their own Earthly language...and had nothing to do with gibberish?
Ok, well beyond arguing the legitimacy,my situation is just one of practicality perhaps. I just don't think it's for me. & I have witnessed it good & bad, & tried it myself for years.
Maybe part of it has to do with expectations. My basic frame of reference is gratitude, so I'm not looking for any extras to begin with. Can't realy comfortably process the supernatural. When I did try it, successes just stimulated an appetite that that didn't feel natural & was addictive feeling (to me) as well.
It's a whole new layer of complexity to my life which I already have my hands pretty full with trying to deal with and understand.
There's some frontiers in my Christianity that need more exploration, but for now some of it will have to stay that way. I'm cool. It's all good.
True tongues are never "gibberish". A person may not understand the language being spoken but if actual "gibberish" is what is occurring, it is not from the Spirit.Do you at least acknowledge that the gift of tongues at Pentacost was the Holy Spirt working to allow those present to hear the Gospel in their own Earthly language...and had nothing to do with gibberish?
True tongues are never "gibberish". A person may not understand the language being spoken but if actual "gibberish" is what is occurring, it is not from the Spirit.
{from Wiki}
Gibberish (sometimes Jibberish) is a generic term in English for talking that sounds like speech, but carries no actual meaning.
The Greek word translated into tongues, glossa, indicates a language other than those spoken by those present, or that area.
sorry frog.
i'm done with this thread.
if anyone could load a YouTube on a new thread showing them raising people from the dead etc, it would be helpful.
any legitimate evidence of those forms of miracles would be good.
see you elsewhere perhaps
Problem is that teaching and prophecy are dichotomised gifts.
Doesnt work. They are distinct. Prophecy is a BIT MORE supernatural then just teaching . . . hence "the secrets of his heart are revealed and he falls on his face declaring God is amongst you." The "secrets of the heart" is the contents of the prophecy . . . not exegesis of scripture.
Further, every bit of prophecy in Acts has NOTHING to do with exegeting Scripture . . . Agabus foretells a coming famine, then he speaks about the one "wearing this belt" being taken in chains . . . the women warn people not to go places . . . NOT ONE BIT IS TEACHING THE REVEALED WORD OF GOD. Your position isnt informed as to the case studies in Scripture as to what prophecy IS.
Again, cant be foreign languages, no one understands them
. . . and even if you say "ya, no one present" . . . it still doesnt work.
Why would one speak in foreign languages for the purpose of communicating the Gospel to people IN THAT LANGUAGE . . . WHEN THEY ARENT EVEN PRESENT, cuz no one understands. Not consistent in action bro.
Why is a GIFT of INTERPRETATION NEEDED
NEEDED
to interpret it? If it is a foreign language, meant for people of that language, then why a SPECIAL GIFT OF INTERPRETATION needed? The people who know the language dont need it . . . right? They can just interpret w/o a gift of interpretation . . . yet Paul says AN INTERPRETATION IS NEEDED PER THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT OF INTERPRETATION. Again not consistent.
His comment about childish and grown things is NOT NEGATIVE. It is not a denouncement. He is speaking in a parallel about progress in growth and that the fullness of that growth doesnt happen until the perfect comes . . . HE SEES HIMSELF AS PART OF THE CHILDISH AGE. Dont make parallels mean things they are not supposed to.
Rebuke huh? Sure, that makes HUGE sense when he tells them to pursue the things and not to disallow them
LOL, have u read any of the accounts of what is happening world wide in the missions fields? I have a man in my church WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD BRO . . . my daughter WAS blind in her right eye, and now she is seeing, we have people who ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD FROM CANCER who are now TOTALLY cancer free . . . arthritics healed, paralyzed tongues now speaking, blind eyes now seeing . . .
sorry, I got living breathing proof of the current manifestations of the power of God IN A CHURCH WITH SOUND DOCTRINE.
Uh no it is not, it is ur failure to read the text and work out a proper systematic.
The text says the manifestations are given "as the Spirit wills" . . . so if the Spirit doesnt want to, it doesnt happen. This means that the gifts are NOT RESIDENTIAL. IOW, one doesnt just activate them. Paul himself didnt heal everyone, trophimus, timothy, even himself.
The healthy systematic is that God is sovereign and works to His will for His glory, and if a gifting doesnt suit that in the moment, it doesnt happen. So your whole theory about hospitals collapses. They arent according to the person.
???
why would He need to?
Tongues is for the fostering of the person's intimacy with God . . . Jesus had no need for this, so no need for tongues. So again, your statment falls to the ground. Sorry
Why would someone who walked into a room with people speaking in a foreign language call the people nuts? What would be strange about a people holding a gathering with people speaking a foreign language in a CULTURAL hub like Corinth?
And, foreign languages are RULED OUT by oudeis . . . NO ONE UNDERSTANDS. Sorry
It is supposed to be addictive! lol.
Like drinking water . . . it is supposed to satisfy and stimulate. It fosters intimacy with God . . . and as such, should cultivate a growing desire for it, AS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GROW IN DESIRE FOR GOD.
I cant fathom not wanting a brother or sister in Christ to NOT have a tool that aids in intimacy with God . . . I also cant fathom God restricting someone from having such a tool/benefit either.
And it isnt supposed to feel natural either
True tongues are never "gibberish". A person may not understand the language being spoken but if actual "gibberish" is what is occurring, it is not from the Spirit.
{from Wiki}
Gibberish (sometimes Jibberish) is a generic term in English for talking that sounds like speech, but carries no actual meaning.
The Greek word translated into tongues, glossa, indicates a language other than those spoken by those present, or that area.
True, tongues are NOT gibberish . . . tho they will sound like it.
They ARE
ecstatic unintelligible speech, plain and simple
"True tongues" given by the Spirit may sound like gibberish to the weak in faith.True, tongues are NOT gibberish . . . tho they will sound like it.
So you believe that when Paul spoke in tongues it was an "ecstatic unintelligible speech, plain and simple"?They ARE
ecstatic unintelligible speech, plain and simple
Nope. That's not what i was saying.Of course it does. ROFL. Are you actually saying that prophet never means teacher in the NT?
They have. I think you perhaps cannot "see" it though.Even with the abundance of greater men than you, none of them have shown how this is GIBBERISH. Even if the text did say unknown tongue WHICH IT DOESNT......check the Greek...bible study is FUN!......it would still mean unknown to those listening at the time. FAIL! and LOLZ!
Tell us about foretelling the future. What divine revelation have you had recently from God. Anything important for the BODY. Or is it only self edifying? Word of Knowledge? Anything to add to scripture? Any miracles you have performed? Have you been on the TV news?
Your welcome.Well I never, so it is:
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
Every day's a school day. Thanks yardy.
When you understand that there is a difference between gibberish, which is probably at work in many churches which claim to use tongues, and true tongues given through the Holy Spirit.So can we stop all thisbusiness already?
You can give it whatever fancy words you want.
Prophecy is:
The gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.
It is (From Strong's):
4394 prophēteía (from 4396 /prophḗtēs, "prophet," which is derived from 4253 /pró, "before" and 5346 /phēmí, "make clear, assert as a priority") properly, what is clarified beforehand;
Either (From Strongs):
prophecy which involves divinely-empowered forthtelling (asserting the mind of God) or foretelling (prediction).
If you can show me someone who's prophesying things that need to be added to scripture then please bring forth immediately and I will discern if they are false prophets (as scripture tells us will happen).
Otherwise I'll continue to concur with the forthtelling of what is clarified beforehand in scripture. i.e. a God given talent for teaching, preaching and asserting the Gospels and the prophecies held therein.
Who said no one understands the language? Paul didn't.
He just said LANGUAGE. Check the Greek. UNKNOWN isn't mentioned until the KJV fellas decided to clarify that the language was unknown to the congregation.
It's perfectly consistent dude. Because HEBREW was often used to read old HEBREW scrolls.....not surprisingly. So Pauls saying don't just spout out a load of Hebrew to people who don't know the language coz its...well.....pointless.
Huh? Thats a bit of a riddle but....can you see how you would need an interpreter if the texts were Hebrew or another language and the congregation were not speakers of that language? And remember this huge dominion of Corinth would have had many different nationalities gathering in it. Even Greek would have been 'Greek' to certain congregations.
You'd need someone to interpret yes? Someone with that gift. And trust me it is a special gift. I live in SE Asia and I would KILL for a descent interpreter. My wife speaks English to me fine....almost fluent...and yet when I need her to interpret a 3 way conversation SHE COMPLETELY FREEZES UP. She cant do it. Lolz. Useless!
Is that why he says "when I became a man, I put away childish things." Please. If someone said you were childish you wouldn't take it as a negative?
He tells them to pursue SPIRITUALITY. Again, check the Greek. It seems someone else might be making unjustified parallels.
Yes and ALL HEALED BY GOD. And some even in response to the prayers of brethren. But none due to anyones 'gift of healing'. Tell me were any of these healings were INSTANT. Walking through a shadow or touching a hanky involved? show me someone with the gift who can heal anyone they want!
That may be true. GREAT. But no superpowers for people.
Paul healed when it would be a SIGN to those who witnessed. A sign of the authority of an Apostle and his teachings. He did it as a sign. It was a gift of healing. The real deal. The Apostles healed whole towns. Why don't we see it today if todays gifts are the real deal? If you say the gift isn't according to the person then HOW IS IT A GIFT?!
Ok show me where the Apostles did it. Show where ANYONE in scripture did it. Show me verses that say tongues is for the fostering of the person's intimacy with God
Paul said "no one" (oudeis) understands . . . this is the same word as "no one can come to the Father but by me" . . . it is universal . . . NO BODY UNDERSTAND TONGUES BECAUSE THE CONTENT IS A MYSTERY AS IT IS TO GOD BY THE SPIRIT OF THE ONE SPEAKING . . . which is why it NEEDS an interpretation given by the Holy Spirit.
Friend, I'm gonna dissect your post tomorrow. I'm going to bed now but...
for goodness sake..just answer me this question honestly ok. This will clear up your obsession with NO-ONE.
If I am speaking a foreign language in a congregation where there are none who speak that language...none in ear shot who can understand me..then....WILL ANYONE ON EARTH UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE JUST SPOKEN?
It's YES or NO.
Just answer that question ok?
If I am speaking a foreign language in a congregation where there are none who speak that language...none in ear shot who can understand me..then....WILL ANYONE ON EARTH UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE JUST SPOKEN?
Friend, I'm gonna dissect your post tomorrow. I'm going to bed now but...
"True tongues" given by the Spirit may sound like gibberish to the weak in faith.
So you believe that when Paul spoke in tongues it was an "ecstatic unintelligible speech, plain and simple"?
I respect your opinion but I don't.
Well, the satisfaction didn't last & it got caught up with other people's expectations of what they thought I should be experiencing and the line defining reality in that sense was constantly shifting. I meant feel natural in the sense that it felt right & good both in the moment & in the big picture. Net result was more anxiety in my experience.It is supposed to be addictive! lol.
Like drinking water . . . it is supposed to satisfy and stimulate. It fosters intimacy with God . . . and as such, should cultivate a growing desire for it, AS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GROW IN DESIRE FOR GOD.
I cant fathom not wanting a brother or sister in Christ to NOT have a tool that aids in intimacy with God . . . I also cant fathom God restricting someone from having such a tool/benefit either.
And it isnt supposed to feel natural either
Tongues fosters intimacy with god.
Show me the scripture that supports this please.
Well I never, so it is:
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
Every day's a school day. Thanks yardy.
There you go people. when the word 'tongue' is used it means A LANGUAGE....of A NATION.
So can we stop all thisbusiness already?
They sound like it but their not....?....?....?
okey doke.
There you go people. when the word 'tongue' is used it means A LANGUAGE....of A NATION.
They sound like it but their not....?....?....?
okey doke
I respect your opinion but I don't.
I believe that when Paul spoke in tongues that it was not ecstatic unintelligible speech.
Well, the satisfaction didn't last & it got caught up with other people's expectations of what they thought I should be experiencing and the line defining reality in that sense was constantly shifting. I meant feel natural in the sense that it felt right & good both in the moment & in the big picture. Net result was more anxiety in my experience.
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