~That which is perfect~

[razeontherock]

Dang. I have to go, just remembered a passage I need to obey.

FTW! Lemme guess:

2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid"

 

[sunlover1]

FTW! Lemme guess:

2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid"

No , the one i had remembered, (wish i could forget) lol is in proverbs.
Proverbs 14 iirc....
But let's go with yours

 

[razeontherock]

Churning butter, and wringing a nose brings forth blood - that one?

 

[sunlover1]

Churning butter, and wringing a nose brings forth blood - that one?

lol.
No (ouchy)
but that was your one and only guess.
Gonna just have to work it out yourself now..
you might be warm though, maybe it looks
different in other translations .. i use KJV.

 

[razeontherock]

Well my blueletter is down, and it's so good I forgot how to use my Strong's

Anybody here know how many times I've advised to read a chapter of Proverbs a day? Like, today is now the 8th, read chapter 8 today.

"Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge." Proverbs 14:7

That won't happen for another six days

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]This is how Strong's defines glossa but Paul also tells us of the tongues of angels which is not confined to the word nation.

When you understand that there is a difference between gibberish, which is probably at work in many churches which claim to use tongues, and true tongues given through the Holy Spirit.

Oh. I thought you were asensible Christian there for a minute.

Can you find scripture where angels are talking something other than an earthly language?

Or maybe we should infer what all orthodox scholars have inferred for CENTURIES regarding 'tongues o angels'...that it is use of the spoken word with the highest possible eloquence, and power? Ya know, just if you wanna stay grounded?

If not, can you tell me the difference between gibberish and true tongues please. I've asked several people this and no answers yet.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Sure. those who speak that language.

But those who speak that language didn't hear it coz they were a thousand miles away. So no-one (without exception) understood what I said. I've edified ONLY myself and spoken ONLY to God

Correct or not. (please be honest)

Your entire case for performing ridiculous unbiblical practices (which are actually kundalini arts) rests on a desperate semantics juggle in Corinthians. You can stop this stuff. It can be done. I've convinced someone on a different thread to renounce this demonic activity and you can too renounce it too!

This is why most Greek scholars see 1 Cor 14 as unintelligible speech . . . even cessationist scholars . . . they would just say it isnt so any more.

Please link me to respected scholarly work that defines 'tongues' as gibberish.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Try using a better lexicon. Kittles Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (10 vol.s) states that ecstatic speech is one of the known usages of glossa. Sorry.

Kittles? Cool....and only $300 dollars to buy!

Please post exactly what your bargain lexicon says about 'tongues' being unintelligable language. Word for word if you will.

It is why Paul states "tongues of angels" . . . and the usage in the Testament of Job.

Higher state of Earthly language use. Obviously. Not gibberish. Can you show me where angels are unintelligable in the Bible?

Not cut and dry. Ecstatic unintelligble speech is well within the normal usage of the term.

But why only in the growing Pente/Charis circles?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

I walk into a cultural hub like corinth (which saw FOREIGN LANGUAGES ALL THE TIME OF THE KNOWN WORLD) and walk into a room of people speaking a foreign language . . . no, hardly wil I say "ya'll are psycho" . . . I would say "hey, what is this guy sayin?" . . . but no allegations of being crazy.

And if you knew for a fact that those he taught didn't speak the foreign tongue that he was teaching with...would you think him a little odd for continuing in that tongue?

Please be honest.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

I hate having to do this every so often . . . but
Here is the case for what was spoke, the common "unintelligible speech" that we hear in tongue speak . . . and that the miracle was more in the hearing than in the speaking.

​

I'm gonna paste that post over here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524327/

And carry on in that thread. It's annoying having the same conversation over two threads.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Not Spiritual gifts, that's for sure! You don't get them by acting childish.

Continued here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524327-10/#post56500464

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

You pretend like you know this stuff?!? This is why you need DISCIPLESHIP:

1 Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself"


Just blew all your theology full of holes. No apologies, it's good for us when it happens.

Response here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524327-10/#post56500477

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

It's getting way too mushy in here.

Unsubscribing.

If anyone wants to talk more on spiritual gifts I'll be over here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524327-10/#post56500582

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Proverbs 24:6 "in multitude of counsellors [there is] safety." Comparing to "koinonia," which is what I'm describing, you are choosing to - Biblical terms here - be an idiot. Vis

You see no such thing in me, or if you think you do you owe specifics. There's simply LOTS of Scripture you're not accounting for in your understanding, so far. Which is to be expected. What about

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection.

You will note this is not something that has come, but something we are to "go on unto." I agree any church (note the small c) that would change you from simple Bible belief to nonsense, is something to avoid. I'm also aware that in EU it's hard to find a decent Church. The effort on your part to look is absolutely necessary, and is the way Christianity has ALWAYS been. Even the 70 (first bunch of Disciples sent out after the 12) were sent out 2 x 2.

DISCIPLESHIP changes you from simpleton Bible belief to "a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (Ephesians 4:13)

You don't have that, and you're forsaking the very means given in context. Software re-write needed? No guilt trip here, but no compromising the Truth either. Find Scripture to support your position - go ahead, I dare you

Continued in new thread on 'discipleship' :

http://www.christianforums.com/t7526092/#post56500528

Please join me to expand on this idea.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Oh. I thought you were asensible Christian there for a minute.

Can you find scripture where angels are talking something other than an earthly language?

Or maybe we should infer what all orthodox scholars have inferred for CENTURIES regarding 'tongues o angels'...that it is use of the spoken word with the highest possible eloquence, and power? Ya know, just if you wanna stay grounded?

If not, can you tell me the difference between gibberish and true tongues please. I've asked several people this and no answers yet.

Sorry, it is hyperbole . . . two ends of the spectrum, where NORMAL HUMAN LANGUAGE IS ONE END and angelic language is another.

It is part of the Jewish culture that saw angels as speaking their own dialects per kind of angel. THAT IS HISTORICAL in their religious context. It is non earthly languages . . . and that is what he means.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

But those who speak that language didn't hear it coz they were a thousand miles away. So no-one (without exception) understood what I said. I've edified ONLY myself and spoken ONLY to God

Correct or not. (please be honest)

Your entire case for performing ridiculous unbiblical practices (which are actually kundalini arts) rests on a desperate semantics juggle in Corinthians. You can stop this stuff. It can be done. I've convinced someone on a different thread to renounce this demonic activity and you can too renounce it too!



Please link me to respected scholarly work that defines 'tongues' as gibberish.

But those who speak that language didn't hear it coz they were a thousand miles away. So no-one (without exception) understood what I said. I've edified ONLY myself and spoken ONLY to God

Sure.

Not the Greek tho of 1 Cor 14 . . . so your parallel doesnt work. Paul says NO ONE and expects that ANYONE could walk through the door at any time and EXPECTS that tongues wouldnt be understood by the potential of ANYONE walking through the door. That is the point of the warning about being called crazy.

With Paul refering to the principle he covers any potential person walking through the door AND ASSUMES that NONE of them would understand.

So, oudeis means NO ONE . . . and it extends to the entire possible gamut of the then known world. Sorry.

(which are actually kundalini arts)

Obviously you really dont know what Kundalini is . . . lol

Your entire case for performing ridiculous unbiblical practices (which are actually kundalini arts) rests on a desperate semantics juggle in Corinthians. You can stop this stuff. It can be done. I've convinced someone on a different thread to renounce this demonic activity and you can too renounce it too!

Nah, I will stick with the clear meaning of the text. No one understands . . . Paul says, I wil believe him over you. All your stuff about foreign languages is a house of cards . . . I have done my indepth study and due dilligence . . . so I got TONS more weight then you do. The burden is on you dude.

Please link me to respected scholarly work that defines 'tongues' as gibberish.

Sure. Look up TDNT's article on glossa.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Kittles? Cool....and only $300 dollars to buy!

Please post exactly what your bargain lexicon says about 'tongues' being unintelligable language. Word for word if you will.



Higher state of Earthly language use. Obviously. Not gibberish. Can you show me where angels are unintelligable in the Bible?



But why only in the growing Pente/Charis circles?

Kittles? Cool....and only $300 dollars to buy!

Actually the ten vol. set is $75 ea . . . so that would be $750 . . . thanks for playing tho

Please post exactly what your bargain lexicon says about 'tongues' being unintelligable language. Word for word if you will.

ur gonna have to wait on that til I have a little more time . . . or you can look it up yourself on google books, if you can read some greek, vol 1 pg 719 is the beginning of the article and the usage of ecstatic unintelligible speech starts in usage 3.

Higher state of Earthly language use. Obviously. Not gibberish. Can you show me where angels are unintelligable in the Bible?

No, Pauls usage is of contrast between the tongues of men, earthly natural languages, and that of angels.
Angels speaking to men has no bearing upon the conversation because they are meant to be understood. I can point you to the Testament of Job tho, a Jewish extra canonical work where Job's daughters are exported into the heavenly realms and cant understand the speech of the angels BETWEEN ANGELS until they are given a girdle to wear . . . and then the "language of heaven" caused joy and rapturous experience . . . making the Jewish context of the WELL LEARNED PAUL something that is COMMONLY KNOWN . . . making the statement "tongues of angels" just that . . . non earthly languages. Sorry.

But why only in the growing Pente/Charis circles?

Off topic. We are speaking of linguistic usage. Not experience, yet.

Point remains, ecstatic unintelligible speech is part of the NORMAL and ACCEPTED use of the term glossa. FACT

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

And if you knew for a fact that those he taught didn't speak the foreign tongue that he was teaching with...would you think him a little odd for continuing in that tongue?

Please be honest.

How would you know for a fact if your a stranger? That is what the text speaks of.

Oudeis means NO ONE . . . NO ONE. Sorry.

 

[razeontherock]

Can you find scripture where angels are talking something other than an earthly language?

Or maybe we should infer what all orthodox scholars have inferred for CENTURIES regarding 'tongues o angels'...that it is use of the spoken word with the highest possible eloquence, and power?

You're trying to make sense of a certain position, and that's commendable. But there is no way to harmonize this position with any need for the gift of interpretation of tongues, so the idea here is untenable.

You need to keep the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE in view, and tie off all the loose ends, before taking positions on much of anything beyond humility.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

How would you know for a fact if your a stranger? That is what the text speaks of.

Oudeis means NO ONE . . . NO ONE. Sorry.

Coz theres a big sign on the door that said "Bible class for Greeks"!!

Anyway I'm done in this thread:

I've responded to all your points over here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524327-11/#post56501205