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Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Icyspark, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    How did you get the Spirit of Christ? When did you get it?

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


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  2. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, I got it believing: demonstrated through obedience by not following the human traditions that contradict the word of God.
    When I was baptized, if not before.
    "Made perfect by the flesh" refers to human laws in Judaism added to God's laws by "blind" guides that enslave you in sin instead of helping you separate yourself from sin because they are "blind" guides. Judaism treats its own human laws as if it came from God, as if they were commandments, when this system of human law did not come from God. That is why they accused Jesus of breaking the law when Jesus did not break any of God's laws. Humans are "blind" guides to add laws to Judaism, making their converts "into twice the child of hell you yourselves are". God can add to His own laws because He is not a blind guide like humans are. Judaism does not enter the kingdom of heaven, nor will they allow others to enter, do to their own system of law. They do this through their human laws that enslave people instead of freeing them from sin because they are "blind" guides.

    “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  3. BABerean2

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    Are you talking about water baptism?

    Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?

    What did Peter say below?


    Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

    Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


    Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?


    Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

    Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

    Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


    “baptize” KJV



    Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



    Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.



    Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:



    Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;



    Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



    1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


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  4. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, yes! You need "forgiveness of your sins" before being able to benefit from the Holy Spirit helping you to obey the commandments. Water comes before the Holy Spirit, who helps you obey God's law.

    Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away—all who have been called by the Lord our God.” Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!” (Acts 2:38-40 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    That is not what Peter said below.


    Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
    Act 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'


    It is not what Paul said below.

    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

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  6. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, the Holy Spirit has many jobs. The gift of the Holy Spirit after baptism is different from what He does before baptism.

    Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  7. BABerean2

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    Do you see the word "water" in Matthew 28:18-20?

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  8. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, "baptism" is always with water! No Gentiles who received the gifts of the Holy Spirit were assumed to be "baptized", because Peter ordered that they be "baptized" having already received the Holy Spirit.

    While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. (Acts 10:44-48 NIV)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  9. BABerean2

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    Does your statement above agree with what Peter said below?


    Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
    Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.




    “baptize” KJV



    Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



    Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.



    Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:



    Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



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  10. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, "baptism" is always with water! By analogy, in a figurative sense, the gift of the Holy Spirit after Jesus is compared to something different: baptism, without the outpouring of the Holy Spirit being a literal baptism or a replacement for baptism. Changing two words in the sentence may help you see the analogy: "ye shall be drowning with the work", does not mean that "work is now drowning". No Gentiles who received the gifts of the Holy Spirit were assumed to be "baptized", because Peter ordered that they be "baptized" having already received the Holy Spirit.

    While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. (Acts 10:44-48 NIV)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, because it comes from Christ, instead of from men?


    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


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  12. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, the word of God tells us that circumcision is not like baptism! Circumcision is no longer done by humans because it is fulfilled in something that God does inside: the circumcision of the heart. We are told that baptism is different from circumcision. There is only one baptism: baptism by water.

    There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, in all, and living through all. (Ephesians 4:5-6 NLT)​
    What you quoted is different from baptism! It happened to some Gentiles before they were baptized! God's word tells us that they needed baptism even though they had already tasted the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. (Acts 10:44-48 NIV)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  13. BABerean2

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    And Peter explains what happened above in chapter 11.

    Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
    Act 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
    Act 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"
    Act 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

    Which baptism is from John the Baptist, and which one comes from Christ?

    What is the gift a person receives when they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in verse 17 above?

    What is the one baptism of our faith, based on the above? Does it come from John, or does it come from Christ?

    John baptized in water before Calvary and before the New Covenant was fulfilled in blood, but the baptism of the Spirit came after Calvary. Therefore, which one is related to salvation based on verse 17 above?


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  14. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, the above quote uses an analogy as made clear by the following two passages.

    There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, in all, and living through all. (Ephesians 4:5-6 NLT)​

    Above, we are told there is only one baptism and below we know that it is of water.

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NLT)​
    There is only one baptism: baptism by water.

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NLT)
    A gift from the Holy Spirit, although He was working in them in a different way before this additional gift.

    “But now I am going away to the one who sent me, and not one of you is asking where I am going. Instead, you grieve because of what I’ve told you. But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocate won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. (John 16:5-8 NLT)
    Baptism comes by water. All
    baptisms are by water!

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NLT)
    It is an
    analogy! The gift of the Holy Spirit is separate from baptism as said by Jesus below.

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NLT)

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  15. BABerean2

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    The "water" in John chapter 3 is amniotic fluid, because Nicodemus was talking about childbirth. However, they did not call it amniotic fluid in the time of Christ. They called it "water".

    Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


    If you have any questions talk to any woman who has ever had a baby and ask what came out right before the baby?

    Do you believe water baptism is a necessary part of getting into the kingdom of God?


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  16. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, the gifts of the Holy Spirit and baptism are not the same. This is why, even after receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Peter had them baptized in the following passage.

    While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. (Acts 10:44-48 NIV)​

    What Peter does above is consistent with Jesus saying that baptism is separate from the gift of the Holy Spirit in the following passage.

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NLT)​
    Yes! The forgiveness of sins is necessary before the Holy Spirit can help you grow in obedience to the eleven commandments. There were only ten commandments in the covenant before Jesus, as He tells us in the following quoted passage. Jesus also says in the same quoted passage that there is one more commandment in the new covenant that was not possible before Jesus, to "follow" His example.

    Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  17. BABerean2

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    When was Cornelius forgiven in the passage below? Was it when he believed and received the Holy Spirit, or was it when he was water baptized? What was the gift from God Cornelius had received?

    Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
    Act 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
    Act 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"


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  18. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, they were forgiven when they were baptized as said below.

    Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away—all who have been called by the Lord our God.” Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!” (Acts 2:38-40 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
  19. BABerean2

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    Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    The above is the same thing that happened at the house of Cornelius below.


    Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
    Act 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
    Act 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"


    They "believed" and then received the "gift" of the Holy Spirit. Then later they were baptized in water.


    You have got it backwards.

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  20. guevaraj

    guevaraj an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins Supporter

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    Brother, the important thing for salvation is that you "believe" first to do all that is required. The following passage is what Cornelius believed Peter would "tell" him, which included baptism. The lesson is that receiving baptism or the Holy Spirit first is not as important as first believing to fulfill the other requirements, such as baptism and having the Holy Spirit to help understand the Holy Spirit's inspired writings in the Scriptures. What it means to believe is made clear here! The believer has the disposition to obey all the requirements. Cornelius received the Holy Spirit because God knew he would obey to be baptized, Cornelius was a true believer and not a law breaker who thinks he is a believer by fabricating his own reality in contradiction to God's truth.

    The Holy Spirit told me to go with them and not to worry that they were Gentiles. These six brothers here accompanied me, and we soon entered the home of the man who had sent for us. He told us how an angel had appeared to him in his home and had told him, ‘Send messengers to Joppa, and summon a man named Simon Peter. He will tell you how you and everyone in your household can be saved!’ (Acts 11:12-14 NLT)​

    The believer is not a law breaker.

    “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 NLT)​

    United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
     
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